Post by goldengirlz on Jun 28, 2020 13:52:56 GMT -5
FWIW, I’m a (native) New Yorker who has similar feelings about “Never forget 9/11” paraphernalia.
If you don’t consider New Yorkers “real Americans” — if you’re the type of person to even buy into this distinction — then our tragedy isn’t yours to exploit for political gain.
I don't think anything about it. My grandparents (life long blue collar, pro-union Democrats) and my parents have always had flags out. My grandfather was a navy veteran, so my grandmother also had the flag from his casket in her living room for the rest of her life.
I also consider myself a very patriotic American, and agree that Republicans don't own the flag.
Post by seeyalater52 on Jun 28, 2020 14:03:19 GMT -5
I admit I do assume they are conservative unless there is some other indication of beliefs also present, like political signage or additional flags (rainbow, etc.) Not because I think the flag belongs to one party or ideology, but because where I live that is largely true (but of course not always.)
A lot of American history is ugly, not just the last four years. While I don’t think the GOP should be allowed to co-opt all the many things our flag represents, I don’t blame anyone for having complicated feelings about the American flag either.
Being able to immigrate to the United States was literally a lifesaver for my family. But this country hasn’t always been so generous, both to people who were born here and those who have wanted to come here willingly.
I fully agree with this. To me, the flag represents all of that, yes, but it also represents the hope of what we can become.
I don't want to see the flag co opted as a sign of aggressive Nationalism. It is important to be honest about the United States complicated, sad and harmful past, but also not lose sight of a hopeful future.
This isn't about the flag, but some words from Obama about patriotism vs nationalism
"If we don’t stand up for tolerance and moderation and respect for others, if we begin to doubt ourselves and all that we have accomplished, then much of the progress that we have made will not continue.”
I hold the flag as a symbol of what we want to move towards.
We are in the middle of Trumpet land. H and I have debated on taking our flag off the porch. We recently replaced ours and I wanted to go non traditional with NASA or a political “Anyone but Trump” flag. H said we would be egged. 😞
Post by Jalapeñomel on Jun 28, 2020 15:03:23 GMT -5
I must say that I think different when I see a flag outside on a porch or something vs a glad on an actual flag pole. Flag pole makes me thing Republican.
Post by lilafowler on Jun 28, 2020 15:17:29 GMT -5
I KNOW those losers in giant trucks and jeeps with American flags fluttering from the back are trumpers. I told my dad that I automatically assume someone in a big hemi truck or a Jeep with flags hanging from the back are douchebag trumpers.
I KNOW those losers in giant trucks and jeeps with American flags fluttering from the back are trumpers. I told my dad that I automatically assume someone in a big hemi truck or a Jeep with flags hanging from the back are douchebag trumpers.
Yes if your flag is all over your car than probably a Trumper. A modest flag off a front porch I don’t think anything except they have a flag.
I KNOW those losers in giant trucks and jeeps with American flags fluttering from the back are trumpers. I told my dad that I automatically assume someone in a big hemi truck or a Jeep with flags hanging from the back are douchebag trumpers.
Yes if your flag is all over your car than probably a Trumper. A modest flag off a front porch I don’t think anything except they have a flag.
Yes-sorry if I sounded rabid-I’d just had this discussion recently.
I KNOW those losers in giant trucks and jeeps with American flags fluttering from the back are trumpers. I told my dad that I automatically assume someone in a big hemi truck or a Jeep with flags hanging from the back are douchebag trumpers.
Yes if your flag is all over your car than probably a Trumper. A modest flag off a front porch I don’t think anything except they have a flag.
I would like to amend my answer to include this. One flag flying in a normal place: no assumptions. Giant ass truck flag, esp with a don’t tread on me flag: assumptions will be made, probably accurately.
We have a flag (wood, not on a pole) on our front porch right now.
I'm firmly of the opinion that I'm not going to concede all ownership of patriotic displays to the right-wing nut jobs. And I think it's important for people to see that we are lefties and patriotic.
We're team THIS.
We literally just put up a flag yesterday. We've had a "In Our America..." sign in our yard since we moved in last year, but my husband also wanted a flag BECAUSE of this reason (how showing any sign of patriotism automatically is assumed you're a conservative, which we're clearly not). He's an Army Vet and has wanted a flag for a while now, specifically to say to others "Hey, you can support our country AND say Black Lives Matter, welcome immigrants, believe love is love, etc." Hell, you can be a VET and still say our gov't is F*cked up. I love that our yard now has both!!
PP is right - no one "Owns" the flag and it's also important for others to see you can support the GOOD in our country (sometimes hard to see over all the bad fucked up shit we've done...but it's there) and still be liberal/left.
I actually saw more flags go up when Covid hit. I also noticed in March/April that some people were starting to attach them to their car windows like they did after 9/11. I don't associate those with Trump. They tend to become more pronounced when the nation is experiencing turmoil of any type. I see them as a sign of unity.
Post by regencygirl on Jun 28, 2020 16:36:01 GMT -5
We have one flag pole, attached to the post of our front porch. We use it to either fly a seasonal flag (Back to School, Halloween, Christmas, etc.) When it is not flying a seasonal flag, we keep an American Flag on it. I currently have my house draped in red, white and blue Americana Decor for 4th of July, including tiny flags in my flower pots, and stars and stripes pinwheels .Both of my grandfathers and my husbands maternal grandfather were all WWII vets and grandfather-in-law was a POW. We also fly the POW flag for POW/MIA day which is the 3rd Friday of September. The American Flag will fly at our house because our grandfathers fought for and suffered for this country and against everything Trump stands for. While my grandfather wasn't a POW, he was in several 'famous' battles in the Pacific theater and survived a Kamikaze attack on his ship. We're honoring what they served for, and screw Trump and the rest trying to take that over. I hate Trump and that flag flies because America is more than him and that flag stands for everyone, I refuse to allow him to define what being an American is.
That being said, in my part of Philly (I'm in the a small red part), flying a flag could mean Trump supporter. They generally also have Trump Flags with the American Flag though.
Since 2016 my gut reaction to seeing a flag on someone's house is definitely to assume they're a crazy Trumper. I hate that it's become such a negative symbol to me but I can't seem to help it.
Same, and on my street the one family flying an American flag are definitely Trumpers (thankfully we have many more neighbors flying pride or equal right symbol flags).
I am not proud to me an American at this point and would never fly an American flag at my home.
No I don’t think that and it’s sad that people have this association. Our flag should represent our total history and not just the last 4 ugly years.
Around here if someone is a Trumper, they’ll put out a sign so you have no doubts.
A lot of American history is ugly, not just the last four years. While I don’t think the GOP should be allowed to co-opt all the many things our flag represents, I don’t blame anyone for having complicated feelings about the American flag either.
Being able to immigrate to the United States was literally a lifesaver for my family. But this country hasn’t always been so generous, both to people who were born here and those who have wanted to come here willingly.
Every country has its share of ugliness. Every country also has a flag. I was thinking more the flag represents us as the United State of America, the country, like when you see it hanging at the UN with all the other flags. Or when they raise it at the Olympics. It represents your family's story. For all of this, it doesn't get to be co-opted by one group like you said.
@@@@@ It also represents my family. One of my favorite random songs to sing is "50 Nifty United States" after I learned it from my kid's Kindergarten class last year. I often sing it to the kids at bedtime. I wonder why I never learned that song when I was a kid.
Post by morecoffeeplease on Jun 28, 2020 17:00:45 GMT -5
I associate the flag with conservatives but we live in a really conservative area. It bums me out that the first thing i think is gop because we are a military family. We have a US Navy flag
I actually saw more flags go up when Covid hit. I also noticed in March/April that some people were starting to attach them to their car windows like they did after 9/11. I don't associate those with Trump. They tend to become more pronounced when the nation is experiencing turmoil of any type. I see them as a sign of unity.
The bolded is true for us because we are home to tend to it (take down when it rains, home before dark since we don’t have a spotlight, etc. which we can’t do when we have to be at the office/have a commute).
Post by darthnbjenni on Jun 28, 2020 17:16:16 GMT -5
Here in SC, if their yard is well maintained and flying just an American flag, I think Republican (which I do have many conservative friends who did not vote for Trump and have become very upset with their party). If they are also flying the flag of secession or rebel flag (yes, with the American flag), I think Trumper.
I'd fly my flag with my Biden yard sign. I'm happy we've moved into a new neighborhood because every Dem yard sign I had ever put in my yard was riddled with BB holes.
Post by cattledogkisses on Jun 28, 2020 17:17:32 GMT -5
I think it’s important to point out too that what conservatives and Trumpers are espousing isn’t patriotism, it’s nationalism. Patriotism, to me, is love for your country that still allows room to acknowledge your country’s faults and ways that you can strive to be better.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Jun 28, 2020 17:32:18 GMT -5
I don't assume Trump supporter. But I do assume other negative things. Like, the sort of person who thinks we need to indoctrinate young people with an anti-inclusive pledge of allegiance, for example. I really can't unsee the American flag as a symbol of requiring conformity... this predates Trump by decades.
You could get a pride flag, or black lives matter flag, or state flag (if your state flag doesn't suck), or seasonal flags, or "In Our America [all the things]" flag... lots of possibilities...
Without fail, it makes me think of Republicans. I don't really have positive associations with our flag.
Same.
We have a flag in storage that we took down because of severe weather and never put back up. If we manage to vote the orange menace out in November, I will wear it around my shoulders and go party in the streets. And then fly it proudly. If not then it probably won’t see the light of day for a while.
A lot of American history is ugly, not just the last four years. While I don’t think the GOP should be allowed to co-opt all the many things our flag represents, I don’t blame anyone for having complicated feelings about the American flag either.
Being able to immigrate to the United States was literally a lifesaver for my family. But this country hasn’t always been so generous, both to people who were born here and those who have wanted to come here willingly.
Every country has its share of ugliness. Every country also has a flag. I was thinking more the flag represents us as the United State of America, the country, like when you see it hanging at the UN with all the other flags. Or when they raise it at the Olympics. It represents your family's story. For all of this, it doesn't get to be co-opted by one group like you said.
@@@@@ It also represents my family. One of my favorite random songs to sing is "50 Nifty United States" after I learned it from my kid's Kindergarten class last year. I often sing it to the kids at bedtime. I wonder why I never learned that song when I was a kid.
I just sang that song (to myself because I'm not a lunatic) to get the answer to a trivia question yesterday! 🎶MASSACHOOOOOSETS IS THE BEST🎶
I KNOW those losers in giant trucks and jeeps with American flags fluttering from the back are trumpers. I told my dad that I automatically assume someone in a big hemi truck or a Jeep with flags hanging from the back are douchebag trumpers.
This isn’t “since trump” for me. For nearly 20 years I’ve felt uncomfortable whenever we visit a small town that has the American flag on every utility pole down the main street. I probably started feeling this way after the flag surge after 9/11 which seemed rooted in racism and nationalism. But that was also when I was 20 and in college in a big city so maybe it was part of my changing world view as well.