Obviously a lot is regional, but DH and I are public school people and I know nothing about private schools. So far I’ve gathered that church-affiliated schools tend to be cheaper, and class sizes tend to be smaller. Otherwise I know nothing.
What should I know about private schools as I start to contact and consider them? Any specific questions I should be asking? We don’t plan to do private long-term (because four kids) so I’m thinking I’ll prioritize location and class size that will allow them to open in person under current health dept. guidelines...
We have submitted an application to a private school for the fall. Their academics are very advanced, more than a year ahead of the common core curriculum by 2nd grade. The class sizes are smaller, so every student gets more attention and time. There is more homework and more school projects like speeches, science fair, etc. Things like uniforms are more expensive on top of tuition. Also it doesn’t have a lunch program so you have to pack lunches daily and there is only one after school program. They are not a religious school.
We are really really really undecided at this point as the academic gap will be hard for ds but the social issues may be even harder. He has really good friends at his current school, but if class sizes are 12 at his public school (so he only sees 11 kids all year) and 50% is distance learning, it just doesnt work for us. I love his school, I just don’t think We can make it work if it’s not full time on campus. So we either hire a tutor/nanny when he is distance learning or we will send him to a private school for more consistency.
I go back and forth daily with which is the right choice.
Thanks sandandsea - I’m going back and forth too. I also worry about the academics for my DS since he missed a lot of kindergarten and still can’t read. I need to figure out how to work with him more on-on-one, but it’s hard to do that with the toddler and new baby around.
I talked with one of my friends tonight who has lived here her whole life and is a teacher and administrator (currently at a high school). She is about to pull her daughter from a local catholic school to homeschool next year since she lives with her elderly parents and they are both retired teachers. So she ran through a bunch of local schools and pros and cons, so now I have more ideas. She also reminded me that we have my parents’ empty condo a couple miles away, so I could use that as a base for a babysitter/tutor if we decide to go that route. Ugh. So many unknowns and decisions to be made.
My kids are in Catholic school. I don’t think that the academics are more advanced there, but they did a MUCH better job with distance learning than any the local public schools around here. Their math curriculum is poor, so I’m trying to work with my kids over the summer to get them where they need to be. I’m also hiring a tutor for DD1 to focus on an entrance exam for a more advanced private school for the fall of 2021 (entering 6th grade then).
Their class sizes are smaller, one class per grade. There are no IEPs there, but I’m working with the principal to get DD1 some sort of accommodation for testing due to her ADHD. I’ve found that the teachers are approachable, principal less so. There is ALWAYS a push for money.
For some other perspective, I went to a private independent high school, and it was a great experience. I loved high school. The college counseling was leaps and bounds beyond what my friends got in public school, and that gap has widened significantly over the years. My nephews recently graduated from an elite private school. The older one earned a full academic scholarship to a small, competitive division 1 school. He said that his high school prepped him well and helped him to learn to study and manage his time (he has some executive functioning issues). I’m not sure he would have received the same attention at his local public school.
We love our private school. In elementary school (which they call Lower School), there are about 30 kids in each grade, split into three classes, so right around 10-12 kids per class. The head of the Lower School knows every single kid. The teachers have all been there more than 15 years, and they allocate a large budget to teacher learning, so they are always up on the latest thinking and research about learning.
The kids are generally advanced. DD started multiplication and division in 2nd grade and reads comfortably at the mid-6th grade level. The teachers are generally really warm and fuzzy and very invested in the emotional needs of their kids. And they can be because classes are small and they don’t have a lot of extra crap they have to do beyond teaching. There’s a ton less bureaucracy.
On the other hand, there are no legal duties around IEPs or dealing with differences. So you’re really trusting the school to do the right thing if you have a kid with special needs. DS has a neurological disorder that was diagnosed last year. His teacher was awesome about figuring out how to help him learn. We talked to the head of the Lower School and he will be placed with the teacher his sister had, so we already have a good working relationship with her. But if the teacher won’t help him? Well, we don’t have legal recourse or an IEP to fall back on. So there’s that.
Also, the school can be cliquish. Mainly the moms, it seems. But that does worry me a bit.
We haven’t done any private school unless you count private K through daycare. DS missed K cut off by 5 weeks so he did K at daycare then K at public school because he was too advanced for pre-K at daycare.
We live in a very Catholic area, but we are not Catholic so our options are 3 Catholic schools (one Orthodox, one regular and one snobby) and a Montessori.
Unless we want to make a 25 minute drive to another suburb one way which I don’t. I’m not thrilled with my options. The Montessori has mixed reviews online. Only one Catholic school we would consider, and we don’t belong to the parrish so admissions wise we are not great but my DH says Catholic schools are begging for admissions but maybe not this year with social distancing. It is a 10 minute drive the wrong direction so 20 minutes out of my way one way- 40 minutes added to my commute.
The Monressori is kind of on my way. The public school is the closest and in normal times provides bussing for both it and the Catholic school that would be our first choice. It’s a mess but I think I’m going to try making public work and hire a babysitter or pay aftercare if they allow them to take students on off days. But they have not released their plan yet. They love their school and dislike change and all their friends are there. Who knows if they will see their friends next year though..
Thanks mae0111 and mommyatty! I now have inquiries out to probably every private elementary near us, both independent and religious. DS2’s daycare provider knows 3 families who have switched to the larger catholic elementary in town, and she said that they’ve committed to opening in person full time this fall. I know DH wouldn’t be thrilled about religious education, but he is also super frugal so I think he’d tolerate it if it means lower tuition
At this point I’m not too concerned with the lack of IEP/special needs support in private schools. While my DS1 can have some challenging behaviors sometimes, the fact that he’s not reading yet seems to be more of an issue of interest and lack of desire to focus, rather than ability. I’m pretty sure he’s at or above grade level in math. My DD was doing multiplication and division in public school second grade, so maybe there’s not a big difference in how challenging the curriculum will be.
mommyatty our public school is pretty clique-y, too. One of the reasons we chose it is because it’s the smallest of the public elementary schools in our district, but it didn’t occur to me in advance that smaller also equaled a more concentrated in-crowd.
waverly my DS1 also dislikes change, but my DD is thrilled about the idea of a whole new group of kids and the possibility of wearing a uniform, and she really really wants to go to school everyday. Like you said, I don’t think the kids will really be allowed to interact with their friends all that much next year anyway, even if they go to their current public school, so I’m not that worried about them missing their friends.
I was also surprised that by putting feelers out to friends, I’ve discovered that there are more private school options in our area than I thought. I just wasn’t really looking before, since we love our public school and live 12 houses away. We bought this house before I was even pregnant with our first kid, because we were so excited about this public elementary school.
I’m letting the private schools think that we may one day send all four kids to their school because I figure that might make our family more attractive for admissions, but honestly I figure I don’t need a school that checks every single box for me for this year - my priority is just one that has in person learning everyday (with the understanding that any school may need to go through some shorter term closures here and there this school year).
Post by mustardseed2007 on Jul 1, 2020 13:26:39 GMT -5
All private schools are different. One thing if you are looking at a small private school is it is important to know that they are financially strong and are growing not shrinking. That is very hard to decipher right now because a lot of schools that are small are facing hard times if there are layoffs in your area etc.
Also, you do want to make sure that they did well when virtual learning was happening in the spring. If you can find parents who will talk to you about that, that is ideal.
I will add this... DH and I were both raised Catholic, but I disagree with a LOT (Almost a all?) of what the church stands for. If I could get DH on board, I would find a new church. DH feels a strong cultural tie to the Church, but not more than that. I, personally, find it difficult to raise strong girls in a religion where women are very much second class.
All that said, we chose this particular school because not everyone there is super religious. There are other schools we considered that we later found out had strong ties to Opus Dei, so we backed off quickly.
This school has more of an independent feel than a Catholic school feel, but with some cultural Catholic things tied in. For example, a big Christmas bazaar and a Christmas concert with a live nativity performance. A St Patrick’s day concert due to the heavy Irish Catholic population in the area (my parents live in a town nearby known as the Irish Riviera). Not necessarily Catholic, but cultural celebrations that would not happen at any public schools here.
They do have 30 minutes of religious instruction daily, but it seems to be more basic Christianity than strong Catholic doctrine.
And at the time, we could not take on an independent school tuition. They’re approaching $30k per kid here. $8k was much more manageable and worth it for what we needed.
I’m in SD too. I’m a public school teacher but I attended Catholic school and have family members who work in them. A lot of Catholic schools are struggling and have been for a while (since before the 2008 recession). Some are getting stronger but many are struggling year to year. Private schools don’t HAVE to hire credentialed teachers, many do, but they aren’t required to do so. So your kids might not have credentialed teachers. Most private schools have fewer resources not more because everything is grant or parent funded (they often aren’t qualified for grants because of the religious affiliations or because they don’t have a big enough low income population). They don’t always have specials that public schools do. Catholic schools in this area are loosely overseen by the diocese but their pastor often has more power than the principal. The pastor is not necessarily assigned to a parish with a school because of a background in education. The Catholic schools in SD closed when the other schools did, so I would be amazed if they were allowed (by the county health Dept) to open if public schools aren’t.
lexus my understanding is that schools can open if they can have kids six feet apart - that’s why the public school will only open with 12 kids in a class as the hybrid model. But because many private schools have smaller class sizes, they can open normally and comply with the public health order. I think going forward the county/state won’t set rules that schools can or can’t open at all unless things get really really bad, but instead will let schools open under set guidelines that private schools are better able to meet given the smaller classes.
lexus my understanding is that schools can open if they can have kids six feet apart - that’s why the public school will only open with 12 kids in a class as the hybrid model. But because many private schools have smaller class sizes, they can open normally and comply with the public health order. I think going forward the county/state won’t set rules that schools can or can’t open at all unless things get really really bad, but instead will let schools open under set guidelines that private schools are better able to meet given the smaller classes.
Ahh I see what you mean. Smaller class sizes at private school contribute to its instability too though. I wonder if they will be willing to commit to keeping class sizes under a certain number even if they have people interested in paying for the spots. I think many schools in our area will be creative with where classes are held since we typically have good weather.
Hey ladies long time. We fell in love with our private school during tour outside of research..applied to 4 schools once he finished private prek and we moved to new town and his bday for cut off for 1st grade was later We are happy with school and they just got blue ribbon Cons:we do have to pack lunch or use a lunch delivery program set up through school, no bus but we live closeby. We are happy and think transition to online school was seamless.
Not sure what plan is for school year we may know which of 3 plans they will use in a few weeks.
Good luck ladies see if there are any virtual coffee chats with parents that can be done
lexus I keep joking that I would gladly take the $ I would spend on private school and give it to our public school to buy shade tents so all classes could be held outside. I haven’t heard much talk about that here, but it seems like an obvious solution!
lexus I keep joking that I would gladly take the $ I would spend on private school and give it to our public school to buy shade tents so all classes could be held outside. I haven’t heard much talk about that here, but it seems like an obvious solution!
My principal was joking about moving classes into the football stadium stands and media center to spread out... I’d do it! The stands would be hard but I’m not opposed to sitting outside of my building for big chunks of time. I’d happily let them do individual work outside!
I teach in a private school and my kids have gone there since pre-k. It’s religious but Quaker so not religious in the traditional sense and super progressive from a pedagogy (and really everything) standpoint.
The pros as I see them: smaller classes (my largest class is 14 kids; DD has 11 in her 3rd grade), lots of community, kids are seen and known, flexible curriculum (not state testing!!), involved and responsive administration, lots of extras (Spanish, music, art, theater, sports, clubs) and our distance learning was much much better than any of the public schools around us.
There are variances depending on the school. I would not send my kids to a religious school (catholic, Christian) that wasn’t Quaker. There are a bunch of independent schools in our area that I wouldn’t even consider bc of their racism, sexism and classism issues.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
One question to ask is whether the teachers are certified and what the experience requirements are. Ive been in a lot of private schools and some of them do not require their teachers to have any kind of formal education or background. Lots of parents do it to reduce or eliminate tuition.
In one school I’ve seen parents pour money into “dyslexia and cognitive therapy” provided by someone with no actual certification or background in reading intervention. I observed it unexpectedly and it was completely unethical and not based on anything sound.
I honestly don’t know what the requirements are for Catholic schools in our state re: teacher licensure. I do know that all of the teachers at my kids’ school are certified, and either have a master’s or are working towards one. They are pushed to do continuing ed and add extra certifications. DD2’s teacher attended Orton Gillingham training last summer with 3 other teachers from the school. With only one teacher per grade, that was a large chunk of the faculty.
In high school, no certification needed, which was good and bad. I had amazing teachers with great professional experience outside the classroom (PhD’s, attorneys, my bio teacher worked on the team that isolated the gene that caused Huntington’s disease). I also had some not-great teachers. I also had amazing and not-great teachers in public school. The big difference was that the not-great teachers didn’t last at my high school. They were terminated quickly. In public school, my experience is that they’re rarely dealt with unless there are egregious issues.
Similarly, the middle school math teacher at DDs’ school was removed mid-year this year, after only a few months in his position, because he was ineffective. I’m not sure a public school could have moved as quickly. That said, my personal experience with a staff member that breached my child’s confidentiality was less than stellar...
lexus my understanding is that schools can open if they can have kids six feet apart - that’s why the public school will only open with 12 kids in a class as the hybrid model. But because many private schools have smaller class sizes, they can open normally and comply with the public health order. I think going forward the county/state won’t set rules that schools can or can’t open at all unless things get really really bad, but instead will let schools open under set guidelines that private schools are better able to meet given the smaller classes.
Ahh I see what you mean. Smaller class sizes at private school contribute to its instability too though. I wonder if they will be willing to commit to keeping class sizes under a certain number even if they have people interested in paying for the spots. I think many schools in our area will be creative with where classes are held since we typically have good weather.
Our school has capped classes at 12 this year.
Functionally, that's not that much of a sacrifice because our school is small. I've checked and as long as no one else enrolls, DS' class will have 8 kids in it and DD's class is capped at 10 if no one else enrolls.
The middle school grades (the entire grade for 6,7 and 8th) will have 11, 12 and 12 kids. I'm sure you can see an advantage and disadvantage there. It's definitely not the usual class size for middle school grades.
Their elective courses in middle school are band, theater, engineering, and track. Every grade takes Spanish and Outdoor Classroom (lead by a lady who is a master gardener and they tend to a robust garden and fish pond. They're supposed to add a beehive next year).
It's limited because they don't have enough kids to do a lot of sports. For team sports they only have soccer and basketball and they don't have those every year and when they have them they are parent coached it normally caps out at 2nd or 3rd grade because not enough kids are interested.
Last year before I re-enrolled I tried hard to have very frank conversations with the head of school about the long term viability of the school as a whole, because so many parents had expressed to me that the school's size was discouraging them from continuing. The the virus hit and almost everyone who said they might leave seems to have decided to stay with the exception of one family from DS' class who is putting their son in an all boys school so he can be around more boys.
Ahh I see what you mean. Smaller class sizes at private school contribute to its instability too though. I wonder if they will be willing to commit to keeping class sizes under a certain number even if they have people interested in paying for the spots. I think many schools in our area will be creative with where classes are held since we typically have good weather.
Our school has capped classes at 12 this year.
Functionally, that's not that much of a sacrifice because our school is small. I've checked and as long as no one else enrolls, DS' class will have 8 kids in it and DD's class is capped at 10 if no one else enrolls.
The middle school grades (the entire grade for 6,7 and 8th) will have 11, 12 and 12 kids. I'm sure you can see an advantage and disadvantage there. It's definitely not the usual class size for middle school grades.
Their elective courses in middle school are band, theater, engineering, and track. Every grade takes Spanish and Outdoor Classroom (lead by a lady who is a master gardener and they tend to a robust garden and fish pond. They're supposed to add a beehive next year).
It's limited because they don't have enough kids to do a lot of sports. For team sports they only have soccer and basketball and they don't have those every year and when they have them they are parent coached it normally caps out at 2nd or 3rd grade because not enough kids are interested.
Last year before I re-enrolled I tried hard to have very frank conversations with the head of school about the long term viability of the school as a whole, because so many parents had expressed to me that the school's size was discouraging them from continuing. The the virus hit and almost everyone who said they might leave seems to have decided to stay with the exception of one family from DS' class who is putting their son in an all boys school so he can be around more boys.
I can definitely see the advantages to classes that small during all of this. I don’t see how a school can pay staff a living wage and maintain class sizes. Here in SD most Catholic schools pay their teachers significantly less than public teacher salary so people are either there because they want to be at a religious school or because they can’t get a public school job. I do think that the credential issue is a big one though. Teachers are taught how to teach during credential programs so those who don’t have a credential might have a natural gift for teaching but they are going to be missing skills. I know there are plenty of credentialed teachers in the world who are still awful teachers.
Re: teacher quality - honestly i think most non-credentialed/so so teachers are still going to teach my kids way more than I would at home while trying to work, or have some cobbled-together arrangement of two days in school/some kind of childcare/some kind of tutoring. It sounds horrible, but I’m totally cool with mediocre teaching if it means my kids are in school five days a week
Re: teacher quality - honestly i think most non-credentialed/so so teachers are still going to teach my kids way more than I would at home while trying to work, or have some cobbled-together arrangement of two days in school/some kind of childcare/some kind of tutoring. It sounds horrible, but I’m totally cool with mediocre teaching if it means my kids are in school five days a week
Haha that’s a great point! Don’t get me wrong, I want my kids at school five days a week. You asked for info so I gave what I had but I’m not judging how anyone makes this crappy situation work for their family!
Post by mustardseed2007 on Jul 3, 2020 9:55:19 GMT -5
We have all credentialed teachers. Most of the teachers have been there for a million years. I'm SURE that they're paid less. I mean, I can't imagine that they wouldn't be. The education our kids receive is paid for by a combination of tuition and a foundation fund.
lexus- we have classes that small but pay our teachers way more than public schools. But it also means our tuition is mind-blowing. But $21k per kid for 12 kids a class is over $250k per year in tuition. So each grade from kindergarten to fourth is bringing in about $750k. Tuition goes up after 4th grade, and grades start getting a bit bigger, so middle school and high school bring in more. Plus we have really generous parents.
The downside is that while we have amazing diversity in terms of race, countries of origin, etc, (in fact, we are more diverse in those terms than any public school in our district), we do not have economic diversity. There are students on scholarship, but not enough to make a dent in what kids at our school think is normal. Like there’s a kid who sometimes comes to school in her dad’s helicopter. The kids don’t think that is unusual. But they think it’s cool the kid was in the newspaper because... her dad brings her to school in a helicopter.
So anyway, small schools can be economically viable, but it comes at a steep price.
lexus part of it might depend on public school teacher salaries in each region. Like my kids’ public school elementary teachers make six figures, so it may be harder for private salaries to compete - vs. a state where public teacher salaries are lower, Private may not be less in comparison.
sdlaura... you're in CA and have teachers making 6 figures? My sister's taught in SoCal for 26 years and is making ~$80k. Our friend just started a new teaching position in the Bay Area making $60k a year. San Diego's (probably not your district) salary schedule caps out at $100k, but starting is closer to $50k, so my guess "most" teachers in your school aren't likely to be making 6 figures.
sdlaura... you're in CA and have teachers making 6 figures? My sister's taught in SoCal for 26 years and is making ~$80k. Our friend just started a new teaching position in the Bay Area making $60k a year. San Diego's (probably not your district) salary schedule caps out at $100k, but starting is closer to $50k, so my guess "most" teachers in your school aren't likely to be making 6 figures.
I was confused as well! I’m a CA teacher in OP’s general area and I will never make six figures no matter how long I work! I guess if you include benefits packages that might change but otherwise, nope!
I think our town’s schools have higher pay, according to my teacher friends. I just looked up my DD’s teachers’ salaries for last 3 years of teachers since all public info. Kindergarten teacher (who DS had this year too till she went on maternity leave in January) made $96k in 2019, first grade teacher made $120k, 2nd grade teacher made $138k. These were all teachers with masters degrees and the first and second grade teacher each won teacher of the year within past 5 years for the school. Our public elementary teachers are pretty incredible.
ETA - you guys are right that the Transparent California website lists it as ‘pay and benefits,’ so not all salary. But private teachers generally don’t get pensions, right?