cherry1111 and lovelyshoes , I understand your concerns, but you’re kind of proving my point.
The article is wondering where the groundswell of parent outrage is and ... I don’t hear it. On the one hand, you have people who rely on the schools and are desperate to send their children back no matter what. But on the other hand, you have a fairly vocal contingent that either wants the impossible (i.e. modifications that would be very challenging for schools to implement) or have flat-out said they won’t send their kids back to a classroom.
And that creates gridlock. Extending virtual learning is the easiest way for schools to say they’re “doing what’s best for families,” but as the comments here suggest, they’re crushing families.
I’m not saying these are easy decisions for schools or parents. But for all the times this article has been circulated on social media, I really don’t see anything changing in the fall.
Parents are afraid to voice their outrage b/c they are afraid to be let go. My male, empty-nester boss has tried to be supportive but literally said to me, "I don't know what to tell you about school; it affects so many employees" [basically, "that I can't do anything useful about it."] He also said, "I'll try to get you guys flexibility [from grand boss]." Like, you'll try? Okay, well, I'll try to not quit.
Not pressuring their bosses (I totally agree with you there), pressuring the school districts and local governments.
But it’s cool though. We’ll just social pod our way through the crisis.
Um, pod members can either provide childcare for one another or pool resources to hire a babysitter. It can be a very practical arrangement that solves these problems more safely and cheaply than daycare.
Yes, but this is a “solution” like food pantries are a solution when EBT gets cut— it completely shifts the burden to families. We can’t have a pod because, quite frankly, we don’t have anyone we know that we’ll. Maybe that makes me a loser but oh well. Our one close-ish relative, my MIL, does not want to see us in person because she would be sad not to hug my kids. My friends have close-knot neighbors and families that are their pods, and my girls haven’t made close enough school friends to do this yet.
I guess if everyone who can pod does, it makes day care a more manageable and less risky option for people like us, but I think setting this out as a way to manage a systemic issue is too narrow.
YESSSSS
Maybe it could work for SOME families, but it’s a suggestion that still feels very “bootstraps” to me. It makes certain assumptions about people’s social networks, homes and jobs that aren’t true across our very unequal society.
Yeah, I'm 99% sure if school doesn't happen full-time in September that I'm either asking to take an indefinite unpaid leave of absence (or stress leave, whatever fits) or asking to cut my hours (and salary) way back. And I'm lucky to have a job and boss flexible enough to allow me to do that along with a husband who can manage to keep us afloat on his income alone. I'm absolutely burning out, I was burning out before the pandemic hit and now I'm just super unhappy every day and it's rolling over into every other aspect of my life in a serious way. This is not sustainable.
Here, I'll just say it. I don't think schools have the time or the money to do much more than just open as usual. For meaningful change to have occurred decisions would have needed to be made (and funded) months ago. Schools will close down for weeks at a time as cases spike or kids/teachers get sick.
I think most parents are not in an uproar because they are planning on sending their kids back to school full time or have the means of providing alterative arrangements and are already making those decisions/arrangements. If more widespread plans of hybrid or full virtual solutions are rolled out in the coming weeks we'll see the outrage then.
We are also seeing how little society cares about people. Teachers getting sick are included, yes, but no more so than all of the other deemed essential workers who have had to work throughout the pandemic in close quarters to people, without the appropriate PPE and social distancing (and before we even knew what the appropriate PPE and social distancing requirements should be). I completely understand why they are infuriated and scared of the situation.
Unrelated to this article, but interesting (in a disappointing kind of way):
My community has been very, very vocal about their outrage to start school in the fall. The majority of the school board feedback from parents, was that they don’t want their kids to...suffer through wearing masks and feel sad about distancing from friends. They don’t want them to lose recess, assemblies, and field trips. The majority of the feedback was “If you don’t return school as normal, I will not send my kid there to suffer.”
Now that my kids are back in daycare (at least for now), I have some relief, but the surprise thing that's getting me is the concern-trolling. Even at daycare, from another pre-k mom whose kid came back sooner than we did, because my 1 year old is now back (as of yesterday) in addition to my pre-k kid. "Oooooh you're back. How do you feeeeeel about it?" Well, my pre-k is thrilled, my 1 yo is struggling, I'm nervous but happy to see them happy and in routines, I'm breathing for the first time in like 4 months and simultaneously feeling guilty about it, and I'm trying not to think about the risks. Thanks for bringing it up! Same in work meetings/calls. Just stop. It's like asking a mom who's newly back from mat leave about how she feeeeeeels about it.
One of my good friends lives across the country from me, and her district has announced their plan of either 2 days/week in person + 3 days/week virtual, or all virtual. Families can choose which they prefer. She has a 1st grader and is paralyzed with indecision: she has a 4-generation family unit and is essentially trying to figure out whether 2 days/week of in person instruction is worth the risk her 1st grader will bring home for the two older generations in the family. I don't even have anything useful to say, it's hard. We have no idea what our district is going to do, so we have no fall plans at all.
At this point I just need NY to make a decision. I can’t take the anxiety of the unknown much longer.
YES! I have no idea what we will do with DD1 (starting Kindergarten) if she is expected to do distance learning at all. I haven't even seen options from our school district so I don't have a clue what the options even are.
goldengirlz I feel like a lot of it is people signaling to society that they care more about their kids than others do..
A lot? This is a crappy generalization. I pulled my kid from daycare and promise it’s not a front. We are two working parents with no family help, no nanny and no sleepovers. It ... sucks. I would not choose this to just feel better about myself or appease my mother in law.
If we say schools and childcare are essential services, then people have to be willing to use them.
Huh? There are plenty of essential services I believe should remain open, though I’m personally choosing not to utilize. I think you can support school reopening while not pushing for 5 day/week in person for your kid. Doesn’t it help if some families select virtual (while remaining in the school system) to allow for more distancing and less risk for the kids who are going in person?
If we say schools and childcare are essential services, then people have to be willing to use them.
Huh? There are plenty of essential services I believe should remain open, though I’m personally choosing not to utilize. I think you can support school reopening while not pushing for 5 day/week in person for your kid. Doesn’t it help if some families select virtual (while remaining in the school system) to allow for more distancing and less risk for the kids who are going in person?
In theory, yes. In practice, my understanding from the big CEP thread on this topic is that the hybrid option is actually the most difficult to implement from a staffing perspective. I’m in favor of giving parents options, but I don’t know how workable it is.
I understand that some parents won’t feel comfortable sending their kids back because of medical or other reasons. But right now, the default is to put the burden on parents who want/need school, not those families who want to opt out. If the article in the OP is true and most parents want (need) in-person, then we should try to make that happen and if people want to sit out, that’s on them. Like if pods are an option for you, again, great. If you’re someone who can homeschool, great. But right now the people who can do those things are setting the agenda without regard for the ones who can’t.
(And look, I may be burnt out, but I’m extremely privileged in that I can WFH indefinitely AND afford a nanny AND I only have one child, who doesn’t have any special needs, to worry about. But the point of the article is that my situation is not the norm.)
ETA: I don’t know if this is true everywhere, but where I am, if you’re an essential worker and (or?) a low-income family, you can still send your kids to the school campus, where they can get a hot meal and distance learning support. I’d love to see that expanded to anyone who needs that option. In a country where childcare is already expensive and hard to access, we’ve taken away one of the best social safety net programs we have for working families.
Weighing back in to say that my impression was not that people were only doing sleepovers with their ‘pod’ - that was just an example of the broad degree of socializing that these people who planned to keep their kids home from school were doing.
In our area most people completely locked down- no pods. When they did expand their social circle most people expanded to family first. If we saw friends it was outside after the shut down. It wasn’t really pod like sleepovers. Also most people that I am friends with are both privileged and also want school to start and want to send their kids.
The ones whining about masks and not sending their kids are there in the community, but I am not friends with them. Maybe I embrace more practical dual working families? I think they are also being careful though not throwing parties.
I know one teen that is going to “prom” though and I worry about that. Not school sponsored. It sounds like it’s going to be a huge party.
I see talk of "I'm going to hire a tutor/private teacher with 2 other families and create a homeschool in my basement" and keep having flashbacks of a one-room schoolhouse. Like we've gone so backwards and only the most privileged and organized amongst us are going to get an education for their kids this year. Just like back in 1884 (random year).
There will be no social distancing on the buses and our town has flipped out. I've been trying to be as pragmatic as possible during this whole thing but I have to admit that's a bit outside of my comfort zone too. I'm willing to send DD to school, but I don't feel she needs the added exposure from the bus since we can give her rides.
Post by maudefindlay on Jul 8, 2020 6:39:25 GMT -5
Our school is offering in person or online. They have decided to outsource the online to a company and the rating for them is....wait for it....1.3 out of 5 stars!
I see talk of "I'm going to hire a tutor/private teacher with 2 other families and create a homeschool in my basement" and keep having flashbacks of a one-room schoolhouse. Like we've gone so backwards and only the most privileged and organized amongst us are going to get an education for their kids this year. Just like back in 1884 (random year).
There will be no social distancing on the buses and our town has flipped out. I've been trying to be as pragmatic as possible during this whole thing but I have to admit that's a bit outside of my comfort zone too. I'm willing to send DD to school, but I don't feel she needs the added exposure from the bus since we can give her rides.
Yah I am planning to have my kids bike until it is too snowy, and then pay a SAHM in our pod to drive them. Buses seem like the easiest thing for us to avoid.
I am also already searching for a fall babysitter. And we are financially able to afford that and both have some WFH flexibility, and I am still stressed as fuck about this.
My one maybe saving grace is my kid who is most challenging to distance educate has a pretty significant IEP do I'm hoping he'll be in school more to receive services.
Our school is offering in person or online. They have decided to outsource the online to a company and the rating for them is....wait for it....1.3 out of 5 stars!
Honestly, that’s probably still better than a hobbled together non-plan. What are the teachers doing if they are outsourcing distance learning? I’m really curious if they have thought through how opposing in school teaching might affect their job security.
Our school is offering in person or online. They have decided to outsource the online to a company and the rating for them is....wait for it....1.3 out of 5 stars!
Honestly, that’s probably still better than a hobbled together non-plan. What are the teachers doing if they are outsourcing distance learning? I’m really curious if they have thought through how opposing in school teaching might affect their job security.
If you choose virtual you get the outsourced company. If you choose in person and then school has to close for elearning those students will do so with their regular teachers. I am hearing that many who wanted virtual are now looking at homeschool instead due to the poor rating.
I end up thinking the best thing is to send them all back full time in the normal manner, and shut down for outbreaks. Of course that means risking virus transmission. Which is potentially fatal, if not to the kids then to their loved ones. So again, an impossible situation.
And round and round we go.
If we had an appropriate, coordinated national response, most areas probably could have done this. Instead, 37 states (maybe more now?) are seeing increases, some of which are seeing out of control outbreaks. Many of these states are only a month away from the first day of school. I think most of these areas are delusional in thinking they can reopen even with a hybrid model.
But, this is the system I think can work in places like NY (the entire state), and other areas that have achieved relative success in containing the outbreak. Not quite normal, because I think we should stick to physical distancing guidelines, but we do expect some parents to opt into distance learning for a variety of reasons (some kids thrived learning from home, some kids have medical concerns, etc.), so we might be able to bring back all kids who decide to return. I say this because we've so far contained the outbreak and less than 2% of New Yorkers are consistently testing positive (it generally hovers around 1% every day). We have the testing and tracing infrastructure in place that I think playing whack-a-mole with individual school/classroom cases could work. We have to expect disruptions though.
OTOH, school doesn't resume here in NYC until 9/10 and a lot can happen in two months. I also do not believe we are immune to what's going on elsewhere. We can't ban interstate travel and so many people have been acting irresponsibly even around here anyway. If cases do increase too much, then all of this is moot.
Personally I don’t feel outrage because I think this is an unsolvable problem.
This is pretty much how I feel. I don't have school aged kids, but if I did I have no idea what kind of option I would even prefer because they all suck. My outrage is focused on our lack of federal leadership and the dumbfuck governors that have buried their heads in the sand.
I end up thinking the best thing is to send them all back full time in the normal manner, and shut down for outbreaks. Of course that means risking virus transmission. Which is potentially fatal, if not to the kids then to their loved ones. So again, an impossible situation.
And round and round we go.
If we had an appropriate, coordinated national response, most areas probably could have done this. Instead, 37 states (maybe more now?) are seeing increases, some of which are seeing out of control outbreaks. Many of these states are only a month away from the first day of school. I think most of these areas are delusional in thinking they can reopen even with a hybrid model.
But, this is the system I think can work in places like NY (the entire state), and other areas that have achieved relative success in containing the outbreak. Not quite normal, because I think we should stick to physical distancing guidelines, but we do expect some parents to opt into distance learning for a variety of reasons (some kids thrived learning from home, some kids have medical concerns, etc.), so we might be able to bring back all kids who decide to return. I say this because we've so far contained the outbreak and less than 2% of New Yorkers are consistently testing positive (it generally hovers around 1% every day). We have the testing and tracing infrastructure in place that I think playing whack-a-mole with individual school/classroom cases could work. We have to expect disruptions though.
OTOH, school doesn't resume here in NYC until 9/10 and a lot can happen in two months. I also do not believe we are immune to what's going on elsewhere. We can't ban interstate travel and so many people have been acting irresponsibly even around here anyway. If cases do increase too much, then all of this is moot.
I think we can have bars, indoor dining, museums, Disney world, concerts, in person religious services... or school. We aren’t at a point as a country with regards to treatment, testing or contract tracing to have both. It is very sad but not at all surprising education has been an afterthought. Our county reported a 10% positive test result yesterday, when our school board also shared there will be zero distancing in schools because it’s not physically (financially) possible. It seems downright unethical to open in a month and just see what happens.
I am nervous for the combination of reopening and colder weather (forcing people back inside) this fall / winter in places like NYC. It seems schools could have been safe in June but November may be a different story.
If we had an appropriate, coordinated national response, most areas probably could have done this. Instead, 37 states (maybe more now?) are seeing increases, some of which are seeing out of control outbreaks. Many of these states are only a month away from the first day of school. I think most of these areas are delusional in thinking they can reopen even with a hybrid model.
But, this is the system I think can work in places like NY (the entire state), and other areas that have achieved relative success in containing the outbreak. Not quite normal, because I think we should stick to physical distancing guidelines, but we do expect some parents to opt into distance learning for a variety of reasons (some kids thrived learning from home, some kids have medical concerns, etc.), so we might be able to bring back all kids who decide to return. I say this because we've so far contained the outbreak and less than 2% of New Yorkers are consistently testing positive (it generally hovers around 1% every day). We have the testing and tracing infrastructure in place that I think playing whack-a-mole with individual school/classroom cases could work. We have to expect disruptions though.
OTOH, school doesn't resume here in NYC until 9/10 and a lot can happen in two months. I also do not believe we are immune to what's going on elsewhere. We can't ban interstate travel and so many people have been acting irresponsibly even around here anyway. If cases do increase too much, then all of this is moot.
I think we can have bars, indoor dining, museums, Disney world, concerts, in person religious services... or school. We aren’t at a point as a country with regards to treatment, testing or contract tracing to have both. It is very sad but not at all surprising education has been an afterthought. Our county reported a 10% positive test result yesterday, when our school board also shared there will be zero distancing in schools because it’s not physically (financially) possible. It seems downright unethical to open in a month and just see what happens.
I am nervous for the combination of reopening and colder weather (forcing people back inside) this fall / winter in places like NYC. It seems schools could have been safe in June but November may be a different story.
Yes. I saw some article that basically said, "You want school this fall? You've got to pay for it." But it didn't mean money; it meant pay for it by sacrificing other things.
I think we can have bars, indoor dining, museums, Disney world, concerts, in person religious services... or school. We aren’t at a point as a country with regards to treatment, testing or contract tracing to have both. It is very sad but not at all surprising education has been an afterthought. Our county reported a 10% positive test result yesterday, when our school board also shared there will be zero distancing in schools because it’s not physically (financially) possible. It seems downright unethical to open in a month and just see what happens.
I am nervous for the combination of reopening and colder weather (forcing people back inside) this fall / winter in places like NYC. It seems schools could have been safe in June but November may be a different story.
Yes. I saw some article that basically said, "You want school this fall? You've got to pay for it." But it didn't mean money; it meant pay for it by sacrificing other things.
I’m 100% onboard w doing w/o the bolded if it means 5d/wk in person school. I’m all about trade offs and I could live with that one.
I’m beginning to agree that the best solution is a 100% return with 100% virtual available only for those families that choose it. I think we go back with precautions in place and close as necessary. I also think we need to come up with ways to not close entire schools. Sick kids in Mrs. Smiths class? Her class is cancelled for 2 weeks and siblings need to stay home. Or something similar.
Yes. I saw some article that basically said, "You want school this fall? You've got to pay for it." But it didn't mean money; it meant pay for it by sacrificing other things.
I’m 100% onboard w doing w/o the bolded if it means 5d/wk in person school. I’m all about trade offs and I could live with that one.
This has been my stance from the beginning. Schools should have been a priority before restaurants, movie theaters, and sorry Texans (I’m one of them) even in person church services. But we have been failed and it seems only in the last week have officials seemed to be worried about what school is actually going to look like. We are supposed to start 5 weeks from today and each day our numbers are the worst they have ever been.
Yes. I saw some article that basically said, "You want school this fall? You've got to pay for it." But it didn't mean money; it meant pay for it by sacrificing other things.
I’m 100% onboard w doing w/o the bolded if it means 5d/wk in person school. I’m all about trade offs and I could live with that one.
IMO, sacrifices would include no more extracurriculars like sports leagues or dance tournaments or Model UN where you are mingling with kids from other classes and other districts. No more birthday parties at Chuck E Cheese. Let's focus on educating our kids and getting the kids who need special services the help they need.
Our school is offering in person or online. They have decided to outsource the online to a company and the rating for them is....wait for it....1.3 out of 5 stars!
Honestly, that’s probably still better than a hobbled together non-plan. What are the teachers doing if they are outsourcing distance learning? I’m really curious if they have thought through how opposing in school teaching might affect their job security.
I'm curious what curriculum. Our school district is (probably) getting the FLVS curriculum for virtual learning, to be taught by our school district's teachers.
The curriculum is slightly better rated than that, from what Google tells me, but the sample lessons they made available to us look like really poorly adapted printed materials. I'm pretty disappointed.
Honestly, that’s probably still better than a hobbled together non-plan. What are the teachers doing if they are outsourcing distance learning? I’m really curious if they have thought through how opposing in school teaching might affect their job security.
I'm curious what curriculum. Our school district is (probably) getting the FLVS curriculum for virtual learning, to be taught by our school district's teachers.
The curriculum is slightly better rated than that, from what Google tells me, but the sample lessons they made available to us look like really poorly adapted printed materials. I'm pretty disappointed.
Post by CheeringCharm on Jul 10, 2020 10:31:27 GMT -5
so I was listening to the NYT's podcast The Argument yesterday. They were talking about school reopening. I guess one of the reasons officials favor the hybrid model is to cut class sizes down and basically assign kids to socially distant pods. That way, if one kid or kid's family gets sick, they can send the whole pod home, quarantine them from other pods for 2 weeks, and then bring them back to school. This makes sense in theory but as a thought experiment, it kind of falls apart when you consider the reality that many parents admit that they will be putting their kids in daycare on their off days from school so that they can work. So in those cases, you would lose whatever socially distancing effect you bought yourself with the pods because kids will be mixing with more people and it won't be as easy to track and trace infections. The reality doesn't match the theory.
I've also noticed that not many people talk about the difficulty teachers will be facing in being asked to do two full time jobs: in person and remote teaching of two different groups of kids at the same time and not getting paid for the extra work.
I totally understand why schools and teachers want to cut down class sizes to social distance. But why can't we think more creatively and flexibly about how to do this? Maybe some pods (who don't need childcare) can go to school on Saturdays and Sundays to free up classrooms during the workweek. Maybe we could put public buildings or offices that aren't being used right now for some pods. Maybe we could hire college students to act as "camp counselor" types to watch over kids as they do their remote learning. I bet there is a way out of this if we put more thought and resources into opening schools. What's frustrating to see as a parent is how much effort is going in to reopening bars and restaurants but not schools. As Michelle Goldberg points out, the airline industry got a billion bailout but not public schools? That makes sense.
I think you bring up a really valid point about thinking creatively. I was amazed at how quickly restaurants pivoted when this all started. Overnight they went from sit down restaurants to stores selling groceries, takeout foods and even takeout beverages. Literally overnight they changed their whole model. A local consignment store started doing FB lives with curbside pickup. I can now order online for most stores and when I arrive it’s loaded into my trunk.
Why are schools not thinking more creatively? Sure schools are small, but there are other venues sitting unused.
I think we need to hear less about why they can’t do things and more in ways they can and what resources are needed. And governments will need to start paying for it.
The company that runs my daycare ran a summer camp for older kids and from what I can tell they really did an amazing job. Use these as examples.