NYT: In the Covid-19 Economy, You Can Have a Kid or a Job.

[CheeringCharm]

Jul 10, 2020 10:55:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

CheeringCharm

I think you bring up a really valid point about thinking creatively. I was amazed at how quickly restaurants pivoted when this all started. Overnight they went from sit down restaurants to stores selling groceries, takeout foods and even takeout beverages. Literally overnight they changed their whole model. A local consignment store started doing FB lives with curbside pickup. I can now order online for most stores and when I arrive it’s loaded into my trunk.

Why are schools not thinking more creatively? Sure schools are small, but there are other venues sitting unused.

I think we need to hear less about why they can’t do things and more in ways they can and what resources are needed. And governments will need to start paying for it.

The company that runs my daycare ran a summer camp for older kids and from what I can tell they really did an amazing job. Use these as examples.

Same with our summer camp. You can tell they put a ton of thought into how to get the camp up and running again safely. They follow all of the CDC suggestions and procedures for masking and social distancing. They hired more counselors to cut group sizes down to 10 or under. They changed check in and out procedures so parents can stay 6 at least feet apart at all times. I see from this example that it can be done. And it’s been soo nice for the kids to have some normalcy back in their lives.

Of course, the camp had a substantial financial motivation to do so. Schools seem to have less motivation. Officials look at the obstacles - from limited budgets to outdated buildings to not enough teachers - and throw up their hands. I get it but I also think that if we (parents, teachers, staff, school admin, the media, and other concerned people) put enough pressure on federal officials to reopen schools safely, they’d give schools the money they need to make the necessary changes.

ETA: another thing that the podcast mentioned is that - clearly many summer camps (esp in the NE where caseloads are way down) are open. They’re following the CDC suggestions for camps and schools. And yet no government org has been tasked with following their progress and seeing what we can learn from these camps in time for reopening public schools. Why is this? Common sense tells you that they’re setting an example for schools to follow if no outbreaks occur. So anyway the economist Emily Oster started a project to collect data on the camps that are running.

Another thing that was mentioned is that so far, no large outbreak has been traced to any of the daycare centers that were open in the spring for children of essential workers. Again, suggesting that schools can reopen if they follow the same safety procedures.

[outnumbered]

Jul 10, 2020 10:55:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

CheeringCharm

I think you bring up a really valid point about thinking creatively. I was amazed at how quickly restaurants pivoted when this all started. Overnight they went from sit down restaurants to stores selling groceries, takeout foods and even takeout beverages. Literally overnight they changed their whole model. A local consignment store started doing FB lives with curbside pickup. I can now order online for most stores and when I arrive it’s loaded into my trunk.

Why are schools not thinking more creatively? Sure schools are small, but there are other venues sitting unused.

I think we need to hear less about why they can’t do things and more in ways they can and what resources are needed. And governments will need to start paying for it.

The company that runs my daycare ran a summer camp for older kids and from what I can tell they really did an amazing job. Use these as examples.

What government is going to pay for it?  Town governments are already over budget to buy pallets of PPE and cleaners.  Empty venues cost money that towns/districts do not have.  The federal government is certainly not giving any more money to education.  Believe me when I say teachers are thinking creatively to get kids back in the building.  They want to be there and they want their own kids to have a 'normal' year.

[icedcoffee]

Jul 10, 2020 15:43:59 GMT -5 outnumbered said:

Jul 10, 2020 10:55:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

CheeringCharm

I think you bring up a really valid point about thinking creatively. I was amazed at how quickly restaurants pivoted when this all started. Overnight they went from sit down restaurants to stores selling groceries, takeout foods and even takeout beverages. Literally overnight they changed their whole model. A local consignment store started doing FB lives with curbside pickup. I can now order online for most stores and when I arrive it’s loaded into my trunk.

Why are schools not thinking more creatively? Sure schools are small, but there are other venues sitting unused.

I think we need to hear less about why they can’t do things and more in ways they can and what resources are needed. And governments will need to start paying for it.

The company that runs my daycare ran a summer camp for older kids and from what I can tell they really did an amazing job. Use these as examples.

What government is going to pay for it?  Town governments are already over budget to buy pallets of PPE and cleaners.  Empty venues cost money that towns/districts do not have.  The federal government is certainly not giving any more money to education.  Believe me when I say teachers are thinking creatively to get kids back in the building.  They want to be there and they want their own kids to have a 'normal' year.

Ideally the federal government, but I know that won’t happen. It sucks all around.

I also didn’t mean to minimize the work teachers are doing. I know most are trying their best.

[ktw]

Jul 10, 2020 15:52:47 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Jul 10, 2020 15:43:59 GMT -5 outnumbered said:

What government is going to pay for it?  Town governments are already over budget to buy pallets of PPE and cleaners.  Empty venues cost money that towns/districts do not have.  The federal government is certainly not giving any more money to education.  Believe me when I say teachers are thinking creatively to get kids back in the building.  They want to be there and they want their own kids to have a 'normal' year.

Ideally the federal government, but I know that won’t happen. It sucks all around.

I also didn’t mean to minimize the work teachers are doing. I know most are trying their best.

Being innovative in a public school environment is difficult in normal times, especially when you’re talking beyond the scope of an individual teacher in his/her own individual classroom. I don’t want to say that what you’re asking for is impossible, but when you’re talking about the scope of an entire school or district, and you have unions to contend with, in the middle of a global crisis, and no money with which to do any of these things... yeah...

I would love for us to be able to look back at all of this and be amazed by how agile and innovative schools were able to be, and that we adapted on the fly and provided a great education for all students during a global pandemic. But, that is not how our public education system is set up. At all. They can’t just pull magic out of thin air.

[sent]

Anytime creative ideas are brought up in our town, the teachers immediately reply with "but union!"

I don't exactly know how unions work but "flexible and creative" aren't words I associate with unions. The airline industry has unions and they get billions every time we have a national crisis. Schools are not getting federal money because our government and in turn the voting public doesn't care.

[macmars45]

icedcoffee schools got no additional money yet switched to entirely distance learning practically overnight. Some didn't do as well as others, but again: they received no money (or training). They will again get no extra money for this school year. To be creative, flexible and innovative you need money.

Also, as with everything in schools, teachers had to figure it out on their own on the fly. They'll have to do so again with precious little (if any) time to plan because schools aren't letting anyone know the plans for the school year until the last minute.

[vmars]

What about starting schools earlier and ending later so they can have split sessions and kids can get closer to normal in classroom hours? Also that would hopefully put an end to distance learning. I think the fewer hours distance learning would help and also making employers be more flexible for working parents.

[lemoncupcake]

Jul 11, 2020 9:05:43 GMT -5 vmars said:

What about starting schools earlier and ending later so they can have split sessions and kids can get closer to normal in classroom hours? Also that would hopefully put an end to distance learning. I think the fewer hours distance learning would help and also making employers be more flexible for working parents.

With the same teacher working 7a to 6p to teach both groups? These kinds of solutions would only work if you’re hiring more teachers (which no one will do)

[maudefindlay]

Jul 11, 2020 9:10:42 GMT -5 lemoncupcake said:

Jul 11, 2020 9:05:43 GMT -5 vmars said:

What about starting schools earlier and ending later so they can have split sessions and kids can get closer to normal in classroom hours? Also that would hopefully put an end to distance learning. I think the fewer hours distance learning would help and also making employers be more flexible for working parents.

With the same teacher working 7a to 6p to teach both groups? These kinds of solutions would only work if you’re hiring more teachers (which no one will do)

It doesn't get rid of distance learning either. There will still be closures when outbreaks occur. There are still students/staff who are high risk and/or have family high risk and cannot do in person.

[fancynewbeesly]

Jul 11, 2020 9:05:43 GMT -5 vmars said:

What about starting schools earlier and ending later so they can have split sessions and kids can get closer to normal in classroom hours? Also that would hopefully put an end to distance learning. I think the fewer hours distance learning would help and also making employers be more flexible for working parents.

We could do this if we hired more teachers/staff and got rid of bussing. Right now our district is big. So there are 4 tiered start/end time. So they couldn’t have everyone start at the time.

[erbear]

I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.

[erbear]

Jul 11, 2020 5:42:37 GMT -5 ktw said:

Jul 10, 2020 15:52:47 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Ideally the federal government, but I know that won’t happen. It sucks all around.

I also didn’t mean to minimize the work teachers are doing. I know most are trying their best.

Being innovative in a public school environment is difficult in normal times, especially when you’re talking beyond the scope of an individual teacher in his/her own individual classroom. I don’t want to say that what you’re asking for is impossible, but when you’re talking about the scope of an entire school or district, and you have unions to contend with, in the middle of a global crisis, and no money with which to do any of these things... yeah...

I would love for us to be able to look back at all of this and be amazed by how agile and innovative schools were able to be, and that we adapted on the fly and provided a great education for all students during a global pandemic. But, that is not how our public education system is set up. At all. They can’t just pull magic out of thin air.

They can. We did. In the spring. That kids got any education at all was a miracle. And we still complain, all the time. It’s laughable how little people understand how school run. Do you really think education would look like it does if teachers were in charge of the decision-making?!

[SusanBAnthony]

Jul 11, 2020 10:52:11 GMT -5 erbear said:

Jul 11, 2020 5:42:37 GMT -5 ktw said:

Being innovative in a public school environment is difficult in normal times, especially when you’re talking beyond the scope of an individual teacher in his/her own individual classroom. I don’t want to say that what you’re asking for is impossible, but when you’re talking about the scope of an entire school or district, and you have unions to contend with, in the middle of a global crisis, and no money with which to do any of these things... yeah...

I would love for us to be able to look back at all of this and be amazed by how agile and innovative schools were able to be, and that we adapted on the fly and provided a great education for all students during a global pandemic. But, that is not how our public education system is set up. At all. They can’t just pull magic out of thin air.

They can. We did. In the spring. That kids got any education at all was a miracle. And we still complain, all the time. It’s laughable how little people understand how school run. Do you really think education would look like it does if teachers were in charge of the decision-making?!

I don't understand this because in every district we've lived in the administration is all former teachers.

[goldengirlz]

Jul 11, 2020 10:48:48 GMT -5 erbear said:

I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.

I think this is absolutely right and I don’t think it’s so much a question of admitting it. I think the conversation needs to consider the “schools reopening” question as two separate items: education and childcare.

At least from what I’ve seen in my district and San Francisco Unified, it may be easier to open school campuses even if there’s a single (virtual) curriculum. Teachers are our most precious resource in education and they shouldn’t have to perform two jobs (or put their health on the line). So we need to solve this in pieces.

I also just want to be clear that I realize the impossibility of all this given who we have in charge at the federal level and the lack of funding across the board. But I also agree with others that our priorities as a country are fucked up if we can bail out the banks and the travel industry but leave children and teachers (and parents, especially low-income families, by extension) to suffer.

[sdlaura]

erbear I honestly don’t see school primarily as child care. For fall, hiring a nanny for my rising 1st and 3rd grader would cost roughly the same as the private school I’m considering. But online school did not work for my kids. They need social interaction, the motivation to learn that comes from being around teachers and other kids in person, the structure and routine. I’m not a trained teacher and saying I should be able to help them as a teacher would discounts the skills and specialized training of teachers.

My 3rd grader used to love doing her school work and now hates it. And it was no fault of her teacher - she was fabulous. I think a lot of whether online school works depends on kids’ ages and personalities. A kid who can’t even read yet (a kindergartner) is not a prime candidate for it working.

I’m willing to risk paying double for education and childcare if schools completely shut down again, take more health risk, and make my life way more complicated to try to have my kids physically in school 5 days a week.. And they don’t have special needs or any of the extenuating circumstances that would make physically being in school even more necessary. I realize how privileged I am to have these options.

Online school may be necessary for health reasons, but let’s not pretend that online learning is just as effective as in person learning for most young students.

[Poppy]

Jul 11, 2020 10:48:48 GMT -5 erbear said:

I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.

I agree that part of the function that school serves is child care. No doubt. Although, as someone who transitioned from daycare to the school calendar this last year, it sure is a bigger PITA to work around a school calendar and coordinate care over school breaks, before and after school, and summers than to just use day care where those are a non issue.

BUT, I really do not think that online is superior to in person except in health benefits during a pandemic. There are so many things that are lost without the in person experience, even if we're _just_ talking about learning and not alllll the other things that school does for our country's children (nutrition, special needs support, socialization, reporting of evidence of abuse etc etc etc).

[outnumbered]

Jul 11, 2020 12:42:30 GMT -5 Poppy said:

Jul 11, 2020 10:48:48 GMT -5 erbear said:

I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.

I agree that part of the function that school serves is child care. No doubt. Although, as someone who transitioned from daycare to the school calendar this last year, it sure is a bigger PITA to work around a school calendar and coordinate care over school breaks, before and after school, and summers than to just use day care where those are a non issue.

BUT, I really do not think that online is superior to in person except in health benefits during a pandemic. There are so many things that are lost without the in person experience, even if we're _just_ talking about learning and not alllll the other things that school does for our country's children (nutrition, special needs support, socialization, reporting of evidence of abuse etc etc etc).

erbear, Is a teacher.  She is well aware of the advantages of in-person teaching and what was lost this spring.  I think she is saying that if we recognized school was for education not child-care it would be better to commit to a robust on-line learning during this time.

[Poppy]

I know, outnumbered. Not to be a stalker but I saw her say the other day that of course she'd rather be in person. And earlier she had posted about how tough it was to adapt her teaching to online (although from what I've read, I would love for my kids to have her as a teacher in person or online, she seems great). And I have agreed with her on like everything else, I just disagreed with how that was worded.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Jul 11, 2020 10:48:48 GMT -5 erbear said:

I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.

i don't see it this way ... my child had a devil of a time with distance learning bc she did not learn from me. her best learning environment is in classroom. nothing to do with child care, everything to do with how she learns.

[erbear]

Jul 11, 2020 12:42:30 GMT -5 Poppy said:

Jul 11, 2020 10:48:48 GMT -5 erbear said:

I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.

I agree that part of the function that school serves is child care. No doubt. Although, as someone who transitioned from daycare to the school calendar this last year, it sure is a bigger PITA to work around a school calendar and coordinate care over school breaks, before and after school, and summers than to just use day care where those are a non issue.

BUT, I really do not think that online is superior to in person except in health benefits during a pandemic. There are so many things that are lost without the in person experience, even if we're _just_ talking about learning and not alllll the other things that school does for our country's children (nutrition, special needs support, socialization, reporting of evidence of abuse etc etc etc).

I’d argue those things (outside of social learning) should not be the responsibility of schools but that’s another story.

[erbear]

Jul 11, 2020 12:59:35 GMT -5 Poppy said:

I know, outnumbered. Not to be a stalker but I saw her say the other day that of course she'd rather be in person. And earlier she had posted about how tough it was to adapt her teaching to online (although from what I've read, I would love for my kids to have her as a teacher in person or online, she seems great). And I have agreed with her on like everything else, I just disagreed with how that was worded.

I’m a million times better an in person teacher because I’ve been trained in it and have done it for 20 years. I could be a really good online teacher if I could be trained in it and have time to create what I want my online classroom to be. The issue I’m having is that I can’t prepare simultaneously for pandemic in-person (which is a totally different classroom than my usual one - no group work, no movement, no role play, no simulation, no partner work — literally nothing I do will be part of my fall classroom and I’d argue that’s way worse than distance learning for kids) and remote school (which I can do well but it takes a lot of time to create). And I don’t even know what any of this will look like so i can’t do either and I’m worried about what that’s going to look like in 6 weeks. I’d like to have an answer so I can make that the best it can be. And at this moment, as much as I hate it, I think it’s full time distance learning

[erbear]

Jul 11, 2020 13:20:32 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Jul 11, 2020 10:48:48 GMT -5 erbear said:

I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.

i don't see it this way ... my child had a devil of a time with distance learning bc she did not learn from me. her best learning environment is in classroom. nothing to do with child care, everything to do with how she learns.

What we did in the spring wasn’t distance learning. It was emergency crisis school. Real online learning looks really different. It’s not for everyone (it was a disaster for my 9 year old and I think it won’t be a good option for her, even at its best...it’s not how she learns) but she will have to adjust.

[Poppy]

Jul 11, 2020 13:28:41 GMT -5 erbear said:

Jul 11, 2020 12:42:30 GMT -5 Poppy said:

I agree that part of the function that school serves is child care. No doubt. Although, as someone who transitioned from daycare to the school calendar this last year, it sure is a bigger PITA to work around a school calendar and coordinate care over school breaks, before and after school, and summers than to just use day care where those are a non issue.

BUT, I really do not think that online is superior to in person except in health benefits during a pandemic. There are so many things that are lost without the in person experience, even if we're _just_ talking about learning and not alllll the other things that school does for our country's children (nutrition, special needs support, socialization, reporting of evidence of abuse etc etc etc).

I’d argue those things (outside of social learning) should not be the responsibility of schools but that’s another story.

I can largely agree with that too.

This is a total tangent and might be flameful but I think that because the work in schools is almost exclusively done by women, who are socialized to take on more work than is fair or than they are compensated for in the name of caring for others, have expanded the scope of the services (sometimes voluntarily and sometimes due to plain unfair expectations) for the greater good. The expectations for what schools should do are wildly inflated. I feel the same way about libraries.

It's not fair. I truly do really appreciate teachers and librarians, and do not think they're expendable.

[abs]

Jul 11, 2020 13:32:59 GMT -5 erbear said:

Jul 11, 2020 12:59:35 GMT -5 Poppy said:

I know, outnumbered. Not to be a stalker but I saw her say the other day that of course she'd rather be in person. And earlier she had posted about how tough it was to adapt her teaching to online (although from what I've read, I would love for my kids to have her as a teacher in person or online, she seems great). And I have agreed with her on like everything else, I just disagreed with how that was worded.

I’m a million times better an in person teacher because I’ve been trained in it and have done it for 20 years. I could be a really good online teacher if I could be trained in it and have time to create what I want my online classroom to be. The issue I’m having is that I can’t prepare simultaneously for pandemic in-person (which is a totally different classroom than my usual one - no group work, no movement, no role play, no simulation, no partner work — literally nothing I do will be part of my fall classroom and I’d argue that’s way worse than distance learning for kids) and remote school (which I can do well but it takes a lot of time to create). And I don’t even know what any of this will look like so i can’t do either and I’m worried about what that’s going to look like in 6 weeks. I’d like to have an answer so I can make that the best it can be. And at this moment, as much as I hate it, I think it’s full time distance learning

In the online description for next year it mentions breaking off into small groups. I almost wonder if there will be more socializing opportunities with the virtual options than the in person ones.

My 9 y/o hated virtual learning. It legit gave her PTSD. She wants to go back badly but you are right....right whatever happens in school this year will be far from ideal. Like way far. For that reason we will probably opt for virtual as that will at least provide consistency but it’s a tough call.

Kids do need social opportunities. I do think that is part of the school’s responsibility but it’s a pandemic. Physical health trumps that right now.

[icedcoffee]

I don’t see many people arguing that school isn’t childcare. It absolutely is. Unfortunately, most parents need to or want to work. So what’s the solution to not have school also be childcare?

[erbear]

Jul 11, 2020 13:45:35 GMT -5 Poppy said:

Jul 11, 2020 13:28:41 GMT -5 erbear said:

I’d argue those things (outside of social learning) should not be the responsibility of schools but that’s another story.

I can largely agree with that too.

This is a total tangent and might be flameful but I think that because the work in schools is almost exclusively done by women, who are socialized to take on more work than is fair or than they are compensated for in the name of caring for others, have expanded the scope of the services (sometimes voluntarily and sometimes due to plain unfair expectations) for the greater good. The expectations for what schools should do are wildly inflated. I feel the same way about libraries.

It's not fair. I truly do really appreciate teachers and librarians, and do not think they're expendable.

You’re absolutely right and it’s only flameful because it’s true.

[waverly]

Jul 11, 2020 14:22:20 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I don’t see many people arguing that school isn’t childcare. It absolutely is. Unfortunately, most parents need to or want to work. So what’s the solution to not have school also be childcare?

Yes school is childcare. I think the way to differentiate this is a private daycare model for example. But my kids have aged out of that model at 9 and 7, and it cost us 25k.

[tacokick]

Jul 10, 2020 11:48:55 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

Jul 10, 2020 10:55:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

CheeringCharm

I think you bring up a really valid point about thinking creatively. I was amazed at how quickly restaurants pivoted when this all started. Overnight they went from sit down restaurants to stores selling groceries, takeout foods and even takeout beverages. Literally overnight they changed their whole model. A local consignment store started doing FB lives with curbside pickup. I can now order online for most stores and when I arrive it’s loaded into my trunk.

Why are schools not thinking more creatively? Sure schools are small, but there are other venues sitting unused.

I think we need to hear less about why they can’t do things and more in ways they can and what resources are needed. And governments will need to start paying for it.

The company that runs my daycare ran a summer camp for older kids and from what I can tell they really did an amazing job. Use these as examples.

Same with our summer camp. You can tell they put a ton of thought into how to get the camp up and running again safely. They follow all of the CDC suggestions and procedures for masking and social distancing. They hired more counselors to cut group sizes down to 10 or under. They changed check in and out procedures so parents can stay 6 at least feet apart at all times. I see from this example that it can be done. And it’s been soo nice for the kids to have some normalcy back in their lives.

Of course, the camp had a substantial financial motivation to do so. Schools seem to have less motivation. Officials look at the obstacles - from limited budgets to outdated buildings to not enough teachers - and throw up their hands. I get it but I also think that if we (parents, teachers, staff, school admin, the media, and other concerned people) put enough pressure on federal officials to reopen schools safely, they’d give schools the money they need to make the necessary changes.

ETA: another thing that the podcast mentioned is that - clearly many summer camps (esp in the NE where caseloads are way down) are open. They’re following the CDC suggestions for camps and schools. And yet no government org has been tasked with following their progress and seeing what we can learn from these camps in time for reopening public schools. Why is this? Common sense tells you that they’re setting an example for schools to follow if no outbreaks occur. So anyway the economist Emily Oster started a project to collect data on the camps that are running.

Another thing that was mentioned is that so far, no large outbreak has been traced to any of the daycare centers that were open in the spring for children of essential workers. Again, suggesting that schools can reopen if they follow the same safety procedures.

Day care centers have a much higher staff to child ratio and much smaller classes. They have more bathrooms and facilities. They are also paid for by parents. If they need more money for implementation of precautions they can ask the parents to pay more or bring in their own items. Those conditions cannot really be replicated in public schools.

In my last school I had 38 elementary school aged students on my own. One bathroom serviced hundreds of students from all grades. I had to bring my own soap in for the children to wash their hands. We didn’t have windows that opened. We didn’t have a playground or parking lot that could potentially be repurposed for outdoor leaning. No matter how creative I was, I couldn’t change any of those things.

[goldengirlz]

Jul 11, 2020 13:45:35 GMT -5 Poppy said:

Jul 11, 2020 13:28:41 GMT -5 erbear said:

I’d argue those things (outside of social learning) should not be the responsibility of schools but that’s another story.

I can largely agree with that too.

This is a total tangent and might be flameful but I think that because the work in schools is almost exclusively done by women, who are socialized to take on more work than is fair or than they are compensated for in the name of caring for others, have expanded the scope of the services (sometimes voluntarily and sometimes due to plain unfair expectations) for the greater good. The expectations for what schools should do are wildly inflated. I feel the same way about libraries.

It's not fair. I truly do really appreciate teachers and librarians, and do not think they're expendable.

This is a good assessment but the other important piece is that our government set up this system, by design. You guys have probably heard me say this before, but public schools are one of the best social safety nets we have in this country for children. We’ve cut funding for nutrition. We’ve cut funding for housing. We’ve cut support for low-income families. We’ve underfunded child protective services. We’re constantly threatening to cut Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program. Of course schools (teachers, women) are left holding the bag. All these things are connected.

And I would argue that it’s TOO LATE for us to argue now about whether or not schools SHOULD serve these extended purposes. They do. And children rely on them.

So we can try to fix all these other things, or we can take an honest look at everything schools provide and say, how can we get back the schools? Or at the very least, how do we continue to make sure children get these services?

ETA: And again, I realize these are impossible questions in the current political environment and with a virus raging out of control in wide swaths of the country. I feel the same hopelessness.

[isabel]

Jul 7, 2020 12:49:35 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Jul 7, 2020 12:28:17 GMT -5 sporklemotion said:

Yes, but this is a “solution” like food pantries are a solution when EBT gets cut— it completely shifts the burden to families.
We can’t have a pod because, quite frankly, we don’t have anyone we know that we’ll. Maybe that makes me a loser but oh well. Our one close-ish relative, my MIL, does not want to see us in person because she would be sad not to hug my kids. My friends have close-knot neighbors and families that are their pods, and my girls haven’t made close enough school friends to do this yet.

I guess if everyone who can pod does, it makes day care a more manageable and less risky option for people like us, but I think setting this out as a way to manage a systemic issue is too narrow.

YESSSSS

Maybe it could work for SOME families, but it’s a suggestion that still feels very “bootstraps” to me. It makes certain assumptions about people’s social networks, homes and jobs that aren’t true across our very unequal society.

I don't disagree with you at all. Truly, I don't. But what is the answer? Who are we supposed to be pressuring?

I need to work. My H needs to work. We can't pay our bills without both our salaries. What exactly are schools supposed to do here? They can offer distance learning, which pisses people off because they need to work and don't have the time to homeschool their kids. They can open up, which pisses people off because it creates so much potential exposure and basically ensures people will get sick and die.

I just truly can't figure out how there is any solution here except a coordinated effort at the federal level to shut everything down, make people wear masks by risk of fines/imprisonment, and get this thing under control. Since that's not happening, it feels like everyone is just spinning their wheels.