More than 650 coronavirus cases have been linked to nearly 40 churches and religious events across the United States since the beginning of the pandemic, with many of them erupting over the last month as Americans resumed their pre-pandemic activities, according to a New York Times database.
I admit, even as someone who is nonreligious, I do acknowledge that faith and worship are very important to many Americans and constitutionally protected. So I do worry about additional lawsuits. At the same time, indoor worshipping is clearly not safe. The article mentions how even churches that took a lot of precautions still had outbreaks.
A GOP state lawmaker in Ohio ― one of several states currently seeing a spike in new coronavirus infections ― urged constituents to “STOP GETTING TESTED” for COVID-19 in a Facebook post on Tuesday.
In theory, outdoor church with masks and chairs spaced apart should be ok. But humans are humans and people will want to be close, take off their masks and hug.
My parents’ friends who live alone and who don’t have family nearby to bubble up with are really suffering mental health-wise. I can see why people want to gather together even against their own better judgement.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jul 8, 2020 8:37:44 GMT -5
Some states, like Tennessee which has had very expansive testing for some time, are learning that testing testing and more testing isn't enough to contain the virus. Seems pretty "duh" but the article was interesting.
With regard to church, I am not religious but was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school growing up. One of the things that was always made clear was the God is everywhere. There is a Bible passage to the effect of “where one or more are gathered in my name, I am there”. We were always told we didn’t need to be in a church building to worship or talk to God. It was not uncommon for worship or Bible study to happen at the beach or a park. I actually live three houses away from the church/school I attended as a kid and can hear the singing from mass all day on normal Sundays. I haven’t heard it during the shutdown and the parking lot is locked. They are clearly finding alternate ways to worship. I know for people who are religious, church is important. What I don’t understand is why, if the Bible tells us God is everywhere, more aren’t still doing alternate services.
My in-laws are the Catholics who believe they have to attend all mass and holy days in person no matter what. I was really impressed that they continued to attend online even once the churches opened where they live. But they are back at it, so now I am worried for them again.
With regard to church, I am not religious but was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school growing up. One of the things that was always made clear was the God is everywhere. There is a Bible passage to the effect of “where one or more are gathered in my name, I am there”. We were always told we didn’t need to be in a church building to worship or talk to God. It was not uncommon for worship or Bible study to happen at the beach or a park. I actually live three houses away from the church/school I attended as a kid and can hear the singing from mass all day on normal Sundays. I haven’t heard it during the shutdown and the parking lot is locked. They are clearly finding alternate ways to worship. I know for people who are religious, church is important. What I don’t understand is why, if the Bible tells us God is everywhere, more aren’t still doing alternate services.
I wonder if it isn’t in part due to finances. I work for a very small church that has been doing Zoom worship since Week 1 and is in no rush to return to the building. Both the leadership and the congregation are both on the same page on this.
But I do know that until now we weren’t set up for easy online-giving. So immediately the church income dropped substantially.
No matter where the worship is happening the rent/mortgage/insurance/ electricity still needs to be paid. Church administration and pastors still need to be paid. I wonder if churches felt like they needed to get back so they could get the $$ they need to support themselves?
af1212 that was DH’s guess - money. If people aren’t in the building where the offering box to put your gift envelope is, are churches losing money. I work in fundraising and was like “online giving! Mail in giving! Put the box in the church office and have “office hours” where people can drop off!” DH said not feasible for everyone.
I wonder if it isn’t in part due to finances. I work for a very small church that has been doing Zoom worship since Week 1 and is in no rush to return to the building. Both the leadership and the congregation are both on the same page on this.
But I do know that until now we weren’t set up for easy online-giving. So immediately the church income dropped substantially.
No matter where the worship is happening the rent/mortgage/insurance/ electricity still needs to be paid. Church administration and pastors still need to be paid. I wonder if churches felt like they needed to get back so they could get the $$ they need to support themselves?
Even with a really smooth transition, a tradition of annual dues (vs. weekly giving) and an easy way to pay online our temple is having a shortfall. They are doing an emergency appeal as they expect to be deep in the hole this year.
I think the crisis will impact all aspects of life. Even in a more affluent area with many office jobs that are done from home now workers we're still seeing a lot of impacts from job loss, pay cuts, cutting back because concerns about the unknown etc. The flow of money around the economy at large is completely destroyed. Some people have no money or just enough to food and housing. Even folks that have relatively comfortable incomes they are spending less or spending differently (e.g. fixing their houses since they are home all the time).
Harvard and MIT have sued the Trump admin over the ICE guidance that doesn't allow foreign students to remain in the USA if they're only taking online classes.
This is breaking right now... I'll post a link in a minute.
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
Harvard and MIT have sued the Trump admin over the ICE guidance that doesn't allow foreign students to remain in the USA if they're only taking online classes.
This is breaking right now... I'll post a link in a minute.
Good. My MBA cohort is probably 40% international students and they were really worried, but for my university's hybrid model (I don't know if this would apply to all) if you're registered for a section that was originally an in-person class, but it moves on-line, it's still registered as an in-person class. They used the same guideline over the summer as to which classes had the additional distance learning fee. So if our students choose to attend class online (every class has to offer that option in the Fall), as long as it was originally an in-person class they're ok, thankfully.
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
Honestly, I’d be picky about interactions with everyone. Just assume that everyone has it (and you have it) as you move throughout your day interacting with people outside of our house. Maybe that’s fatalistic or pessimistic, but I think it’s the safest way to proceed.
Unless there’s some very real, necessary need to be close to her I wouldn’t and always follow all other precautions.
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
I'm in New York and as Delaware was just added to our "states watch" list yesterday (as in, anyone coming to New York from Delaware has to quarantine for 14 days), I'm going to say you should be pretty concerned.
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
Unfortunately I don't think that you can do anything about other people's behaviors and nitpick what they're doing. Try not to let it get in your mental headspace. The best you can do is wear a mask, distance as much as possible, wash your hands and don't touch your face. I've had a few coworkers travel to visit family and when they returned and we were sitting in the same room all day together between seeing patients I continued to take the same precautions I had been doing all along.
Post by basilosaurus on Jul 8, 2020 9:51:29 GMT -5
Lots of things are important to people. That isn't the only concer.
I live that a judge who willed that Kentucky can indeed limit church openings cited that whole wherever when 2 are gathered in my name passage.
I know I'm preaching to the choir, pun not intended, but people don't die from worshipping online or in their own. Plus churches involved close contact and singing (which we know dramatically increases chance of transmission).
Yeah I'm a dirty militant atheist who thinks blasphemy and sacrilege are a victimless crime. But first I'm a humanist. These jackholes put their fellow humans at risk because of their selfish need to worship exactly how they want and damn the consequences
af1212 that was DH’s guess - money. If people aren’t in the building where the offering box to put your gift envelope is, are churches losing money. I work in fundraising and was like “online giving! Mail in giving! Put the box in the church office and have “office hours” where people can drop off!” DH said not feasible for everyone.
I don’t know if this is true for churches, but our synagogue also does a lot of other programming that people pay for, like Hebrew lessons.
@@@
DD absolutely revolted about doing a sixth day of online learning (Hebrew school is three hours on Sundays) and H and I couldn’t even blame her. I’m all Zoomed out on weekends too. So that’s about $500 I don’t think I want to pay next year if she’s not attending. And if she’s not going to Hebrew school, I’m also questioning whether I should pay $3500 for dues or direct that money to another charitable cause.
So I agree that the impact of a tighter economy is going to have implications across the nonprofit world, including religious institutions.
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
A week and a half ago there were more than 100 people who were positive and they told everyone that had been in rehoboth to get tested.
Delaware is one of the states that PA and NJ are requiring people to quarantine when they return from.
Harvard and MIT have sued the Trump admin over the ICE guidance that doesn't allow foreign students to remain in the USA if they're only taking online classes.
This is breaking right now... I'll post a link in a minute.
I’m glad someone is going this route. My alma mater issued an appeal to professors to build an in-person requirement for foreign students so they can be allowed to stay in the country.
With regard to church, I am not religious but was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school growing up. One of the things that was always made clear was the God is everywhere. There is a Bible passage to the effect of “where one or more are gathered in my name, I am there”. We were always told we didn’t need to be in a church building to worship or talk to God. It was not uncommon for worship or Bible study to happen at the beach or a park. I actually live three houses away from the church/school I attended as a kid and can hear the singing from mass all day on normal Sundays. I haven’t heard it during the shutdown and the parking lot is locked. They are clearly finding alternate ways to worship. I know for people who are religious, church is important. What I don’t understand is why, if the Bible tells us God is everywhere, more aren’t still doing alternate services.
Communion is a big issue for some - both Catholics (transubstantiation) and some evangelical/conservative churches. My church is a liberal protestant church and our once-a-month communion is symbolic, so we just grab crackers from our own kitchens and it's fine. However, it's a real theological/psychological issue for some to actually need to be in person for communion.
af1212, our church has had the same experience (my husband is the treasurer). Honestly, we don't take in a ton of money, we have a few dozen regular attendees, and only 4 part-time employees (including pastor). Giving has certainly dropped, probably because 1) out of sight, out of mind (not everyone is/can attend the zoom worship) and 2) people are struggling right now. Adding to that, we're continuing to pay everyone, even our janitor who wasn't working for quite a while. We're also planning on being remote at least through the end of the year, and our elderly congregation is perfectly fine with that.
Harvard and MIT have sued the Trump admin over the ICE guidance that doesn't allow foreign students to remain in the USA if they're only taking online classes.
This is breaking right now... I'll post a link in a minute.
I’m glad someone is going this route. My alma mater issued an appeal to professors to build an in-person requirement for foreign students so they can be allowed to stay in the country.
I think Stanford just threw together a one credit class for foreign students that meets in person once (not sure if that's what you're referring to) and other schools are being pressured to do the same.
I don’t know if this is true for churches, but our synagogue also does a lot of other programming that people pay for, like Hebrew lessons.
I know a lot of people who pay to go to the services for the high holy days, but those aren't until the Fall. I didn't know there was other programming that people paid for like that. I don't think we had to pay for religion classes at our Catholic Church. But I am old, so I am sure that has changed.
I’m glad someone is going this route. My alma mater issued an appeal to professors to build an in-person requirement for foreign students so they can be allowed to stay in the country.
I think Stanford just threw together a one credit class for foreign students that meets in person once (not sure if that's what you're referring to) and other schools are being pressured to do the same.
I think it’s going to be up to each department, but that’s not a bad idea. At my old school, most of the foreign grad students were in science and engineering disciplines with research requirements, which would already be in person. This seems like it would be pretty easy to circumvent, but I wouldn’t put it past this administration to be more critical about whether in-person requirements are legitimate, and threaten to withhold federal funding or research $$$ from universities they think are trying to get around the requirement.
I don’t know if this is true for churches, but our synagogue also does a lot of other programming that people pay for, like Hebrew lessons.
I know a lot of people who pay to go to the services for the high holy days, but those aren't until the Fall. I didn't know there was other programming that people paid for like that. I don't think we had to pay for religion classes at our Catholic Church. But I am old, so I am sure that has changed.
@@@ We pay for our religious school too. in the older grades it is a big commitment. 5-6 hours a week when it is in person (our virtual was 50% less, no idea what the plan is for fall but we signed back up and really liked the virtual programming this year).
FWIW our temple has already announced that services for the high holy days will be virtual for fall and I don't think they'll charge anything to watch the feed. There would be no safe way to gather so many folks. Transmission rates are low but as many as 500 people can come the various services at our temple. The choir will start working in August since everything has to be sent in and blended into a video for the service.
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
I don't know about distancing on that beach, but I know that Delaware has had a huge increase in cases this week. I live in CT and last night Delaware was added to our list of high risk states. If you travel from Delaware to CT you must self isolate for 14 days.
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
That’s a popular beach for people in my area to visit. The photos I’ve seen haven’t been good. Lots of crowds, and so many people on the beach that you can’t keep a good distance. Few masks.
Eight-year-old Eros trots through the streets of this hilly city several times a day with a straw basket in his jaws, taking vegetables, fruit and packaged foods to customers of the El Porvenir mini-market. The chocolate Labrador retriever is paid with treats and massages of his furry head.
“He helps us to maintain social distancing” says Eros’ owner Maria Natividad Botero. “And people love it when we send the dog.”
Anyone know how strict people are about social distancing at Rehoboth Beach, DE? My boss is there this week on vacation and I dont have a lot of faith in her and her family being as conscientious as they are here. Im trying to decide how concerened and picky about interactions with her I need to be when she gets back.
My coworker went to Bethany a few weeks ago. She said they tried to go to the beach and boardwalk once, saw the crowds, and went back to their rental.
H’s boss was at Ocean City last weekend, said all the “old folks” restaurants were empty, but the “young kids bars” (Seacrests, I guess) were packed.
I'm not sure why I even asked TBH, you're all saying about what I expected. We don't actually work in the shop at the same time, there just isn't enough workspace for two people even in normal times. At most we're in the same room for 30 minutes when she stops by to drop off supplies or check in. I'm going to be extra careful about wiping down surfaces when I go in and be restrictive about who I see for at least 2 weeks after she gets back. H asked me what happens if she gets sick when she gets back and is unable to do anything for 4 weeks or more. I didn't have a good answer, I don't know if she's even thought about it. I can keep the shop going without her for a little while, but there are things only she handles that I wont be able to do. Yet she thinks a beach trip is a good idea because she's soooooo stressed out. Yep, I'm totally judging the hell out of her for going to the beach right now.