I do not have experience personally, but I have a friend whose daughter was just diagnosed with a personality disorder (the precursor to schizophrenia, because she's too young to be diagnosed with actual schizophrenia).
I can't offer any advice other than to do whatever you can to advocate for her. Do you have a good, local children's hospital with a psych department? I'd start there.
I do not have experience personally, but I have a friend whose daughter was just diagnosed with a personality disorder (the precursor to schizophrenia, because she's too young to be diagnosed with actual schizophrenia).
I can't offer any advice other than to do whatever you can to advocate for her. Do you have a good, local children's hospital with a psych department? I'd start there.
Fortunately, we live near Nationwide Children's, which just opened the largest pediatric behavioral and mental health center in the country. We have tons of resources available; I just feel like I'm stepping into air here. Before, I had a foothold.
IDK, was this your general doctor that suggested this? I don't think it hurts to be evaluated, but I wouldn't honestly put too much stock in it yet, either. They are not experts on psychological disorders and without an evaluation, that's a weird thing to suggest IMO. What does her counselor think?
I am not an expert either, but what you describe doesn't sound that extreme. If she already struggles with anxiety, this has been a rough year. Especially with her recent health scare, I am not surprised her anxiety has ramped up.
Post by sunshineluv on Aug 6, 2020 11:34:22 GMT -5
Oh kat.... I can’t imagine the stress and worry. I don’t have any experience in this arena, but my thought process is, knowledge is power. If she gets a diagnosis it won’t change who she is, it will just give both you and her the best set of tools to help.
Not the same at all but when DS was diagnosed with Dyslexia, I told myself that a lot. (And my mom who is on the way to being diagnosed with fibromyalga... Which has no cure but if she gets the diagnosis, we can best figure out treatments)
I will continue to pray for your sweet girl and you. So much on your plate in such a short time.
IDK, was this your general doctor that suggested this?
It was the general doctor. One of the things I love about her is that she's very proactive. She takes people's concerns seriously and is very much an "okay, let's figure this out" kind of doctor, rather than, "hey, let's try this one thing." I have to remind myself of that. We haven't spoken to the counselor in few weeks, and DD isn't as open with him. I don't think he's as proactive in general. He approved of our decision to seek out meds, but didn't suggest it himself.
Going to a psychiatrist was life changing for me- I thought I had been suffering from anxiety and depression and it turns out I’m bipolar and the meds I was on was making me a whole lot worse. My primary care doctor wasn’t bad or uninformed, she just didn’t know what to look for or the questions to ask. I really wish she had told me to go see a psychiatrist way earlier. My friend encouraged me to go with this advice— if you are having major heart issues, you go to a cardiologist, why wouldn’t you with your mental health?
I hope you get answers and a plan that can help. I wish my mom had advocated for me at 13 like you’re doing for your daughter.
My friend encouraged me to go with this advice— if you are having major heart issues, you go to a cardiologist, why wouldn’t you with your mental health?
This is exactly how we explain it to DD. The brain is just another part of the body, and specialists are there for a reason. I always try to reinforce to her that it's not that there's something wrong with her; it's just like having a physical illness--we would get treatment for that, too. She struggles with that, in part because she feels it's so wrapped up in her personality, she's afraid she'll lose who she is if it goes away. I think she can't see beyond it. I struggled with depression and severe suicidal thoughts in high school, but didn't have anyone. I told her, when I finally began to recover (and a few years ago, got on meds after it got really bad again due to trauma), I didn't lose myself; it was like I finally found myself. She's just afraid to believe it. It's all she's known for 3 years.
Post by foundmylazybum on Aug 6, 2020 12:24:00 GMT -5
One thought: trying a new doctor offers a new perspective on her case as well as her resistance to medication.
Its hard to tell if she's doing well or not on the treatment if she is resistant and, if she hasn't tried a medication for anxiety plus depression that is still one route unexplored.
A new doctor, one who is knowledgeable about teens, behavior and pharmacology provides a new start for your daughter ❣
I do not have experience personally, but I have a friend whose daughter was just diagnosed with a personality disorder (the precursor to schizophrenia, because she's too young to be diagnosed with actual schizophrenia).
I can't offer any advice other than to do whatever you can to advocate for her. Do you have a good, local children's hospital with a psych department? I'd start there.
My Niece was diagnosed with this when she was 15 or 16. After a couple admissions. I think she is doing well now (she is 19 and in community college).
all I know of it is third hand, via my MIL who is pretty... biased.
I can only speak from personal experience, and you are already lightyears ahead of where my parents were when I was 13 and showing serious signs of mental health problems.
I would also get up in the middle of the night to guard, check to make sure everyone was still breathing, check doors and windows (which I always locked and double checked before going to bed).
In my 30s I was finally diagnosed bipolar. I'm working on it, but I'm still bitter/angry that my parents didn't help me when I was younger.
So - you might feel like you don't know what you're doing, but you're actually doing great! Please keep advocating for her and learning.
IDK, was this your general doctor that suggested this? I don't think it hurts to be evaluated, but I wouldn't honestly put too much stock in it yet, either. They are not experts on psychological disorders and without an evaluation, that's a weird thing to suggest IMO. What does her counselor think?
I am not an expert either, but what you describe doesn't sound that extreme. If she already struggles with anxiety, this has been a rough year. Especially with her recent health scare, I am not surprised her anxiety has ramped up.
Why shouldn’t OP put much stock in what her doctor thinks? She’s been treating her daughter. That’s what doctors do...we think about what’s happening and then come up with a differential diagnosis, which is a list of possibilities. I usually tell my patients what my thought process is, especially if I’m referring them to someone else. This is exactly what her doctor did. Unless there’s some other back story, why shouldn’t she trust her opinion?
OP, I hope the psych appointment goes well. I used to work a lot with kids with mental illness and I know how hard it can be on the parents. It sounds like you’re doing a great job and I hope you continue to have the support you need and can get your daughter feeling better.
I keep typing things and then second guessing myself, but what I really want to say is that you're doing a great job, and the fact that your daughter's struggles are out in the open and being dealt with is a huge step!
There's so much stigma around mental health and the term "personality disorders", that it definitely adds to the intimidation factor of the potential diagnosis. My sister was diagnosed with BPD, and once I read and understood what she was actually dealing with, so many things made sense, it actually felt less intimidating. There are great therapies that help her recognize and challenge unhealthy thoughts and behaviours. If it helps, she has told me she wishes she was diagnosed and treated much, much sooner (instead of as an adult). If your daughter ends up with a diagnosis, you'll be getting her the help she needs to put her in a great position to manage it.
I know it's not the same, but my DS(8) was diagnosed with autism, and I understand the feeling of having the rug pulled out from under you, even if you're prepared for it. Even though I was 100% expecting it, having a diagnosis does send you down the path of wondering what your child's future is going to be like, how much they'll be capable of, what their struggles will be and how much support they're going to need (and for how long!). That's overwhelming as a parent, no matter what. It's totally understandable that you're thrown for a loop!
IDK, was this your general doctor that suggested this? I don't think it hurts to be evaluated, but I wouldn't honestly put too much stock in it yet, either. They are not experts on psychological disorders and without an evaluation, that's a weird thing to suggest IMO. What does her counselor think?
I am not an expert either, but what you describe doesn't sound that extreme. If she already struggles with anxiety, this has been a rough year. Especially with her recent health scare, I am not surprised her anxiety has ramped up.
Why shouldn’t OP put much stock in what her doctor thinks? She’s been treating her daughter. That’s what doctors do...we think about what’s happening and then come up with a differential diagnosis, which is a list of possibilities. I usually tell my patients what my thought process is, especially if I’m referring them to someone else. This is exactly what her doctor did. Unless there’s some other back story, why shouldn’t she trust her opinion?
OP, I hope the psych appointment goes well. I used to work a lot with kids with mental illness and I know how hard it can be on the parents. It sounds like you’re doing a great job and I hope you continue to have the support you need and can get your daughter feeling better.
Personality disorders are complicated to diagnose, and typically aren't diagnosed in children. It's also kind of a vague thing to say "I think she has a personality disorder". Which one? If she's been working with a counselor to treat her mental health, and the counselor hasn't brought up any concerns about this, I wouldn't spent too much time getting worried about it before having her evaluated. There is certainly nothing wrong with her doctor recommending she see a psychiatrist or even with sharing her suspicion. I just would try to hold off on getting too worried or upset about this diagnosis until someone with deeper expertise in this area has done an actual evaluation.
Sounds like switching counselors would be helpful anyway, though. If she isn't being honest with the current one then my initial post may not be as accurate. I was posting with the assumption that the mental health professional had at least as much information as the general doctor would have had.
I think it would be a good idea to see a psychiatrist. The doc may be wrong, but she may not and it would be a good idea to get a specialists opinion.
My SD17 has anxiety and a lot of it is centered around intruders and stuff as well. She sleeps better here than at her moms house, I think it's because she is never alone here and we have an alarm system. At her mom's house sometimes she just doesn't sleep all night. She is also resisting meds although she will sometimes agree to take my as-needed anxiety meds on occasion (we share the same doc and she has said this is ok, its allergy meds that work well for anxiety and helps with sleep as well).
I think self harm is a red flag as there are a few more serious mental health conditions that include self harm so it wouldn't hurt to get her checked out. Best of luck and big hugs.
It’s great that you have awesome mental health care available for children nearby and anything you do or find out is only going to help her in the long run. Definitely see a psychiatrist who has lots of experience with teens. You may want to try a new counselor if you feel the current one isn’t effective. The psychiatrist may be able to recommend one, or the style of therapy that will be most beneficial for her. Side effects from medications, the wrong medications/diagnosis, hormones and an incredibly stressful anxiety inducing year could all be contributing to her issues, and the psychiatrist is going to be best equipped to deal with it, along with her MD and counselor team.
Post by basilosaurus on Aug 6, 2020 19:32:45 GMT -5
I'm glad you're taking this seriously and seem to have good docs.
I'll just share an aside that may or may not help.
I experimented with cutting, very limited and pathetically safe (I have degrees in biology and nursing). My therapist was fine with it being an experiment and didn't label me. However, when I got taken to a psych er that automatically gave me a label of bpd.
When I had to take certain meds for severe insomnia that gave me another label of bipolar. That was also something my therapist disagreed with.
I sound like my dad who has shown his ass many times saying he knows better than docs. He doesn't btw. There's a lot of history of bad advice, mostly religious, he's recieved I could get into!
I'm just saying take it seriously but don't despair.
Post by SusanBAnthony on Aug 6, 2020 19:43:05 GMT -5
My sister is bipolar. Looking back there were clearly signs that something was off in high school. Now that she has an accurate diagnosis as an adult she manages it extremely well.
We used to go to NCH including for some mental health stuff. I hope the appointment goes well!
You’re doing a great job. If you haven’t already, please contact your local chapter of National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) for support. They are an amazing organization with lots of resources, including many for family members of those suffering from mental illness. Just like you might seek out an organization for juvenile diabetes or childhood cancer, you can benefit from the support NAMI can offer.
I turned to them when my husband was suffering from severe depression, and I can honestly say that the help I received saved our marriage.
I do not have experience personally, but I have a friend whose daughter was just diagnosed with a personality disorder (the precursor to schizophrenia, because she's too young to be diagnosed with actual schizophrenia).
I can't offer any advice other than to do whatever you can to advocate for her. Do you have a good, local children's hospital with a psych department? I'd start there.
She is also too young to be diagnosed with a personality disorder, that's 18 too
Schizophrenia doesn't actually appear until late adolescence ...it's not that it's too young to diagnose
Also, personality disorders aren't really treated with meds (but those symptoms may be helped my meds)
I'm not a psychiatrist, but I work in the field...and something seems off to me so I encourage a 2nd opinion. A lot of times it is trial and error to pinpoint diagnosis...then treatment do I'm not suggesting that this person is doing something wrong. It's a process, really
spearmintleaf, good to know, thanks. I know self-harm isn't always an indicator of a personality disorder. I've had a few friends who were cutters, one in high school and another in college. Both did as a result of past traumas. Those experiences have helped me to try to catch this before it gets severe.
Thanks, everyone. She's glad to go and know more, and she said she does want a new counselor (it'd be her third), but she also dislikes that it's happening at all. She mentioned tonight she feels like she failed--that she should have been able to deal with it on her own.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Aug 6, 2020 22:13:06 GMT -5
You can also keep her with her current counselor and make an appointment with another in the future.
It took me 8 months before anyone would see me with my insurance. I was on the brink of going to the ER for an emergency psych evaluation. I’m sorry to say that this is a real issue for MH in this country.
I hope you can get her the help she needs in a timely manner in both the doc and counseling.
Post by mrsukyankee on Aug 8, 2020 15:35:02 GMT -5
katfco, if the Calm Harm app is available in the States, I'd suggest looking into it. My younger university students have said that it's quite helpful for postponing self-harm and then they can use the other skills they've learned to not do it as often.
You can also keep her with her current counselor and make an appointment with another in the future.
It took me 8 months before anyone would see me with my insurance. I was on the brink of going to the ER for an emergency psych evaluation. I’m sorry to say that this is a real issue for MH in this country.
I hope you can get her the help she needs in a timely manner in both the doc and counseling.
She will be so grateful you helped.
With insurance we wouldn’t be able to see him after making an appointment with the new place. I talked to her and she said she’d like to try someone new. Fortunately, she also makes use of the crisis text line when she needs someone to talk to—she always tells us about it after
katfco, if the Calm Harm app is available in the States, I'd suggest looking into it. My younger university students have said that it's quite helpful for postponing self-harm and then they can use the other skills they've learned to not do it as often.
Thanks. For some reason her phone is not letting us download some apps right now, but we found a related app by the same company about anxiety