As someone who’s lived her entire life in a very densely populated area, it continues to blow my mind that there are areas of this country where someone could be lost for a very long time or even forever. Where there’s just NOTHING around you for such a long, long way.
The head injury makes sense. I was so curious about this because she was a seasoned hiker and Zion is SO heavily trafficked in many areas. I am glad she was found.
It also has so many terrain features. It would be really easy to get stuck somewhere difficult to see.
Definitely. But without a head injury or other similar circumstance, I doubt a seasoned hiker would get TOO far into trouble without calling for help. So even if she had been in crazy terrain, she could have called for help and someone could have (maybe) heard her.
Then again, we didn't do all the hikes in Zion (much to my chagrin) so I am sure there are areas that are less traveled.
I could be mistaken, but i think cell phone GPS works even when you are not connected to the internet/cell service. At least, it works to a point where you can pull up maps and see yourself as a dot on the map and follow it. Maybe it won't work somewhere super remote, but I've done that on international trips with my phone in airplane mode to avoid paying for cell service, and it works fine as a map.
I went solo hiking in a state park last weekend and used my phone as a map. I was connected to cell service, though. I would be too nervous out alone (anywhere, really) without my phone. I wonder if stuff like this happens less frequently in the last 10 years or so since smart phones came about? It seems like carrying your phone would help a lot in most circumstances.
Post by wanderlustmom on Oct 21, 2020 7:42:02 GMT -5
I’m so so glad she’s fine.
I made a huge mistake this August and so reading this really scares me. We were on a weekend trip to the mountains. I went hiking alone and did have my phone. Somehow I got off the easy trail and got lost for 15 minutes. I was able to call my husband and a trail runner helped me when I found him—it was all still really really scary and I won’t ever hike alone again no matter how tempted I am. Even when my directions were explained to me, I still had to find my way back to my car and it took 45 minutes when I was already upset. I was so surprised at how quickly you can get lost
I could be mistaken, but i think cell phone GPS works even when you are not connected to the internet/cell service. At least, it works to a point where you can pull up maps and see yourself as a dot on the map and follow it. Maybe it won't work somewhere super remote, but I've done that on international trips with my phone in airplane mode to avoid paying for cell service, and it works fine as a map.
I went solo hiking in a state park last weekend and used my phone as a map. I was connected to cell service, though. I would be too nervous out alone (anywhere, really) without my phone. I wonder if stuff like this happens less frequently in the last 10 years or so since smart phones came about? It seems like carrying your phone would help a lot in most circumstances.
I think the problem is that a lot of large parks/trails just show up as a big green blob. I know we went to a wedding two years ago that was near a mountainous park and the map knew we were in a park and showed a bridge a few miles away but there were no real clues how to get to it at all. It wasn’t even clear we were on a mountain. The same thing when we went to Assateague. That’s a small area but we didn’t have service and all we could really tell was where the ocean was which would only be moderately helpful if we were injured.
If you don’t have any connection, sometimes the maps don’t refresh properly. So you might see a dot but it might not be exactly where you actually are.
Plus if you are injured or dehydrated you wouldn’t be thinking clearly, batteries die, phones get dropped etc.
I could be mistaken, but i think cell phone GPS works even when you are not connected to the internet/cell service. At least, it works to a point where you can pull up maps and see yourself as a dot on the map and follow it. Maybe it won't work somewhere super remote, but I've done that on international trips with my phone in airplane mode to avoid paying for cell service, and it works fine as a map.
I went solo hiking in a state park last weekend and used my phone as a map. I was connected to cell service, though. I would be too nervous out alone (anywhere, really) without my phone. I wonder if stuff like this happens less frequently in the last 10 years or so since smart phones came about? It seems like carrying your phone would help a lot in most circumstances.
. My understanding is it’s actually the opposite. Happening more frequently because people go off into wilderness situations unprepared because “I have my phone” and think that will help them. There are many places where there is no service and your phone will do nothing for you. Not to mention if you are hurt or unable to use the phone or battery dies or ...
I could be mistaken, but i think cell phone GPS works even when you are not connected to the internet/cell service. At least, it works to a point where you can pull up maps and see yourself as a dot on the map and follow it. Maybe it won't work somewhere super remote, but I've done that on international trips with my phone in airplane mode to avoid paying for cell service, and it works fine as a map.
I went solo hiking in a state park last weekend and used my phone as a map. I was connected to cell service, though. I would be too nervous out alone (anywhere, really) without my phone. I wonder if stuff like this happens less frequently in the last 10 years or so since smart phones came about? It seems like carrying your phone would help a lot in most circumstances.
There are large swaths of Maine where there is no cell service and no gps. If you try to pull out your phone to do anything it will just say “No service.” Lots of people, us included, still carry the good, old-fashioned, trusty Delorme Maine Atlas and Gazetteer (I keep a copy in my car).
It is kind of crazy when you think about it I guess. We were at Acadia last weekend and even in a fairly populated place like MDI there’s no cell service on much of the island.
I could be mistaken, but i think cell phone GPS works even when you are not connected to the internet/cell service. At least, it works to a point where you can pull up maps and see yourself as a dot on the map and follow it. Maybe it won't work somewhere super remote, but I've done that on international trips with my phone in airplane mode to avoid paying for cell service, and it works fine as a map.
I went solo hiking in a state park last weekend and used my phone as a map. I was connected to cell service, though. I would be too nervous out alone (anywhere, really) without my phone. I wonder if stuff like this happens less frequently in the last 10 years or so since smart phones came about? It seems like carrying your phone would help a lot in most circumstances.
It's true that cell GPS doesn't need the phone network (as long as you have previously downloaded the maps). But there are places where a GPS is unable to "see" enough satellites to get a good location. Deep canyons are among the problematic zones.
Plus, smart phone batteries die. I wouldn't be surprised if they help for short, close-in activities but might actually hurt for farther out ones if people are relying on them when they lose power.
I could be mistaken, but i think cell phone GPS works even when you are not connected to the internet/cell service. At least, it works to a point where you can pull up maps and see yourself as a dot on the map and follow it. Maybe it won't work somewhere super remote, but I've done that on international trips with my phone in airplane mode to avoid paying for cell service, and it works fine as a map.
I went solo hiking in a state park last weekend and used my phone as a map. I was connected to cell service, though. I would be too nervous out alone (anywhere, really) without my phone. I wonder if stuff like this happens less frequently in the last 10 years or so since smart phones came about? It seems like carrying your phone would help a lot in most circumstances.
I think the problem is that a lot of large parks/trails just show up as a big green blob. I know we went to a wedding two years ago that was near a mountainous park and the map knew we were in a park and showed a bridge a few miles away but there were no real clues how to get to it at all. It wasn’t even clear we were on a mountain. The same thing when we went to Assateague. That’s a small area but we didn’t have service and all we could really tell was where the ocean was which would only be moderately helpful if we were injured.
If you don’t have any connection, sometimes the maps don’t refresh properly. So you might see a dot but it might not be exactly where you actually are.
Plus if you are injured or dehydrated you wouldn’t be thinking clearly, batteries die, phones get dropped etc.
I guess I was thinking that if you knew there was a road or populated area, you could just head in that direction, even if there wasn't a marked trail. Kind of like using a compass in the olden days Even if it's not perfect, I would assume fewer people get lost if they have a phone with GPS that they can pull out and refer to to ensure they are moving in the right direction. I know phones lose charge eventually, but if you're just out on a day hike and not connected to internet, I would think you'd have at least 12-24 hours before you have to worry about that?
I also wonder if it depends on your cell phone provider, lol. I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
I think the problem is that a lot of large parks/trails just show up as a big green blob. I know we went to a wedding two years ago that was near a mountainous park and the map knew we were in a park and showed a bridge a few miles away but there were no real clues how to get to it at all. It wasn’t even clear we were on a mountain. The same thing when we went to Assateague. That’s a small area but we didn’t have service and all we could really tell was where the ocean was which would only be moderately helpful if we were injured.
If you don’t have any connection, sometimes the maps don’t refresh properly. So you might see a dot but it might not be exactly where you actually are.
Plus if you are injured or dehydrated you wouldn’t be thinking clearly, batteries die, phones get dropped etc.
I guess I was thinking that if you knew there was a road or populated area, you could just head in that direction, even if there wasn't a marked trail. Kind of like using a compass in the olden days Even if it's not perfect, I would assume fewer people get lost if they have a phone with GPS that they can pull out and refer to to ensure they are moving in the right direction. I know phones lose charge eventually, but if you're just out on a day hike and not connected to internet, I would think you'd have at least 12-24 hours before you have to worry about that?
I also wonder if it depends on your cell phone provider, lol. I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
If there are no nearby towers at all though, GPS won’t be helpful because there would be no accurate map to pin it to, then you get a blob or a no service notice. When we were in the park in upstate NY there was no indication if there was water or streets or where we were at all, just what looked like a bridge to one side and we weren’t in the wilderness! It was a paved trail! I’d have no idea where a populated part would be at all. I still don’t know if the bridge went over water or a ravine of some sort.
The VA part of Assateague is pretty big and rural, I don’t think they have their own tower.
Plus I do think people trust their phones and don’t carry maps or bother to plan where they are going as much as people did years ago which then gets them into trouble when they go off path and the phone doesn’t work/dies/breaks. Batteries die really quickly if there isn’t a signal and they keep trying to find one.
I think the problem is that a lot of large parks/trails just show up as a big green blob. I know we went to a wedding two years ago that was near a mountainous park and the map knew we were in a park and showed a bridge a few miles away but there were no real clues how to get to it at all. It wasn’t even clear we were on a mountain. The same thing when we went to Assateague. That’s a small area but we didn’t have service and all we could really tell was where the ocean was which would only be moderately helpful if we were injured.
If you don’t have any connection, sometimes the maps don’t refresh properly. So you might see a dot but it might not be exactly where you actually are.
Plus if you are injured or dehydrated you wouldn’t be thinking clearly, batteries die, phones get dropped etc.
I guess I was thinking that if you knew there was a road or populated area, you could just head in that direction, even if there wasn't a marked trail. Kind of like using a compass in the olden days Even if it's not perfect, I would assume fewer people get lost if they have a phone with GPS that they can pull out and refer to to ensure they are moving in the right direction. I know phones lose charge eventually, but if you're just out on a day hike and not connected to internet, I would think you'd have at least 12-24 hours before you have to worry about that?
I also wonder if it depends on your cell phone provider, lol. I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
We live in Colorado and often hit large patches of no cell phone service unless we’ve opened the map and it has cached an image the map is completely useless- well maybe I could see a big river or lake, but often it’s just a green blob. Even in areas where there might be cell phone data it’s often so bad/slow that trying to get a map to download will kill a good bit of your battery. I have 2 cell phones on two different carriers (one for work) and they usually go out of range at very nearly the same time. It’s very rare for us to have great cell phone reception on a hike in the mountains that is at all off the beaten path.
I think the problem is that a lot of large parks/trails just show up as a big green blob. I know we went to a wedding two years ago that was near a mountainous park and the map knew we were in a park and showed a bridge a few miles away but there were no real clues how to get to it at all. It wasn’t even clear we were on a mountain. The same thing when we went to Assateague. That’s a small area but we didn’t have service and all we could really tell was where the ocean was which would only be moderately helpful if we were injured.
If you don’t have any connection, sometimes the maps don’t refresh properly. So you might see a dot but it might not be exactly where you actually are.
Plus if you are injured or dehydrated you wouldn’t be thinking clearly, batteries die, phones get dropped etc.
I guess I was thinking that if you knew there was a road or populated area, you could just head in that direction, even if there wasn't a marked trail. Kind of like using a compass in the olden days Even if it's not perfect, I would assume fewer people get lost if they have a phone with GPS that they can pull out and refer to to ensure they are moving in the right direction. I know phones lose charge eventually, but if you're just out on a day hike and not connected to internet, I would think you'd have at least 12-24 hours before you have to worry about that?
I also wonder if it depends on your cell phone provider, lol. I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
When people would use a compass “in the olden days” they would bring detailed topographic maps, have prepared for how long they were going to be out, told someone where they were going, have paid attention to their surroundings, etc.
Now you have people who see someone’s Instagram pic of a cool view and go there. There are more inexperienced hikers out and about, who have poorly planned (or not planned at all) for the area they are going. It has been shown time and time again that your cell phone cannot save you in the wilderness and too many people don’t believe it and so think they’ll be just fine.
I guess I was thinking that if you knew there was a road or populated area, you could just head in that direction, even if there wasn't a marked trail. Kind of like using a compass in the olden days Even if it's not perfect, I would assume fewer people get lost if they have a phone with GPS that they can pull out and refer to to ensure they are moving in the right direction. I know phones lose charge eventually, but if you're just out on a day hike and not connected to internet, I would think you'd have at least 12-24 hours before you have to worry about that?
I also wonder if it depends on your cell phone provider, lol. I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
We live in Colorado and often hit large patches of no cell phone service unless we’ve opened the map and it has cached an image the map is completely useless- well maybe I could see a big river or lake, but often it’s just a green blob. Even in areas where there might be cell phone data it’s often so bad/slow that trying to get a map to download will kill a good bit of your battery. I have 2 cell phones on two different carriers (one for work) and they usually go out of range at very nearly the same time. It’s very rare for us to have great cell phone reception on a hike in the mountains that is at all off the beaten path.
Yeah, a maps app might show you the last cached image that it had before you lost service, but if you have no cell service it's not going to update as you move, so it's going to be little help.
I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
It depends where you are in Shenandoah. If you are closer to one of the towers in the valley you can get service. We usually stay at Lewis Mountain and there is no service there, but we can usually get some service near Big Meadows. We rarely go in the Front Royal entrance, but I would imagine there is service there since it closest to a populated area.
I think the problem is that a lot of large parks/trails just show up as a big green blob. I know we went to a wedding two years ago that was near a mountainous park and the map knew we were in a park and showed a bridge a few miles away but there were no real clues how to get to it at all. It wasn’t even clear we were on a mountain. The same thing when we went to Assateague. That’s a small area but we didn’t have service and all we could really tell was where the ocean was which would only be moderately helpful if we were injured.
If you don’t have any connection, sometimes the maps don’t refresh properly. So you might see a dot but it might not be exactly where you actually are.
Plus if you are injured or dehydrated you wouldn’t be thinking clearly, batteries die, phones get dropped etc.
I guess I was thinking that if you knew there was a road or populated area, you could just head in that direction, even if there wasn't a marked trail. Kind of like using a compass in the olden days Even if it's not perfect, I would assume fewer people get lost if they have a phone with GPS that they can pull out and refer to to ensure they are moving in the right direction. I know phones lose charge eventually, but if you're just out on a day hike and not connected to internet, I would think you'd have at least 12-24 hours before you have to worry about that?
I also wonder if it depends on your cell phone provider, lol. I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
Around here (Washington State) if you go off trail and just try to hike to the nearest road (using a standard google phone map and not a detailed topography map) that is a quick way to end up near a cliff or area that you won't be able to traverse. There are apps like All Trails that you can download to allow you to have detailed maps offline but you do still have to have gps.
I went on about 10 hikes and 2 backpack trips this summer and I never had cell service once we hit the trail - even on a 3 mile hike that was just 10 miles off I-90 (got service at the summit but that was it). And generally Verizon (which I have) does better in the mountains around here.
We've actually had three people go missing on hikes in the past month. One hiker stepped of the trail to go to the bathroom and got lost. Luckily he was found 24 hours later. One guy was hiking with his dog on a very popular trail and has still not been found even though multiple people saw him at various points on the trail before he went missing (suspended the search October 7). Third guy was hiking on his own and also has not been found (went missing October 9).
Staying put and waiting/hoping for rescue is often the best option - especially since she was injured and probably wasn't super familiar with the terrain.
... Staying put and waiting/hoping for rescue is often the best option - especially since she was injured and probably wasn't super familiar with the terrain.
This, combined with telling people where you're planning to go and leaving a note with your intended itinerary in your car. Those things can help a lot with getting you found quicker if something goes wrong!
I could be mistaken, but i think cell phone GPS works even when you are not connected to the internet/cell service. At least, it works to a point where you can pull up maps and see yourself as a dot on the map and follow it. Maybe it won't work somewhere super remote, but I've done that on international trips with my phone in airplane mode to avoid paying for cell service, and it works fine as a map.
I went solo hiking in a state park last weekend and used my phone as a map. I was connected to cell service, though. I would be too nervous out alone (anywhere, really) without my phone. I wonder if stuff like this happens less frequently in the last 10 years or so since smart phones came about? It seems like carrying your phone would help a lot in most circumstances.
Unfortunately many areas don't have cell service, so that's not always an option. There are plenty of rural and areas with other terrain that aren't conducive to cell phone.
Just to be clear — GPS is 100% space-based and doesn’t rely on ground-based towers AT ALL. It works everywhere in the entire globe. Always. There is a complex network or low-earth-orbit satellites, so depending on the exact constellation you might have line of sight to just or few, or to many, but you only need 3 to get a good quality (within one meter) location.
Now, just like the GPS in your car, you need to have a good, updated map to plot your position against. If you don’t have a good map, your exact coordinates might not be terribly helpful. But if you update your maps before you go, you should be fine.
ETA: I don’t mean people should rely on cell phones while hiking. I mean people should plan out their hikes uses compasses and/or paper maps, and have a handheld GPS with updated maps as a backup.
Just to be clear — GPS is 100% space-based and doesn’t rely on ground-based towers AT ALL. It works everywhere in the entire globe. Always. There is a complex network or low-earth-orbit satellites, so depending on the exact constellation you might have line of sight to just or few, or to many, but you only need 3 to get a good quality (within one meter) location.
Now, just like the GPS in your car, you need to have a good, updated map to plot your position against. If you don’t have a good map, your exact coordinates might not be terribly helpful. But if you update your maps before you go, you should be fine.
Yes. There is no cell reception in the majority of Yellowstone Park, but I used a GPS powered tour app and it was amazing and knew exactly where we were to chime in with appropriate information at all times.
I think the problem is that a lot of large parks/trails just show up as a big green blob. I know we went to a wedding two years ago that was near a mountainous park and the map knew we were in a park and showed a bridge a few miles away but there were no real clues how to get to it at all. It wasn’t even clear we were on a mountain. The same thing when we went to Assateague. That’s a small area but we didn’t have service and all we could really tell was where the ocean was which would only be moderately helpful if we were injured.
If you don’t have any connection, sometimes the maps don’t refresh properly. So you might see a dot but it might not be exactly where you actually are.
Plus if you are injured or dehydrated you wouldn’t be thinking clearly, batteries die, phones get dropped etc.
I guess I was thinking that if you knew there was a road or populated area, you could just head in that direction, even if there wasn't a marked trail. Kind of like using a compass in the olden days Even if it's not perfect, I would assume fewer people get lost if they have a phone with GPS that they can pull out and refer to to ensure they are moving in the right direction. I know phones lose charge eventually, but if you're just out on a day hike and not connected to internet, I would think you'd have at least 12-24 hours before you have to worry about that?
I also wonder if it depends on your cell phone provider, lol. I've been to both Assateague and Acadia in the last 18 months and don't recall not having service at all! I'm going to Shenandoah national park this weekend, I'll have to see if we have problems with service there.
My DH and DD1 were at Shenandoah this summer and they only had service sporadically. IIRC DH said it was best when they were up high on some of the hiking trails.
Unless you go through the process to shut down all the phone's radios (put it in airplane mode, turn off Wi-Fi etc.) then you will actually eat up battery faster than usual because the phone will constantly look for a network to connect to. It would be really easy for people to either forget to do that (and to turn them back off every time you turn them on to use them) or for people who aren't tech-savvy to think that if they're out of a service area that their phone just goes on standby or something, when it's actually *more* active than when it's connected to a known network.
Also, it's often the case in some very rural areas and/or parks that you're actually roaming onto the network of a different (small, local) wireless network, not one of the big three. There are still small wireless networks out there, even if there are way fewer than there used to be. IIRC roaming can add a bit more "overhead" in terms of battery use and it can also potentially mean that your data use is restricted, too, based on what roaming relationship your carrier has with the local network provider. So if you can get service, maybe you can only get 2G or 3G and most modern apps are unusable or nearly so.
Just to be clear — GPS is 100% space-based and doesn’t rely on ground-based towers AT ALL. It works everywhere in the entire globe. Always. There is a complex network or low-earth-orbit satellites, so depending on the exact constellation you might have line of sight to just or few, or to many, but you only need 3 to get a good quality (within one meter) location.
Now, just like the GPS in your car, you need to have a good, updated map to plot your position against. If you don’t have a good map, your exact coordinates might not be terribly helpful. But if you update your maps before you go, you should be fine.
Yes. There is no cell reception in the majority of Yellowstone Park, but I used a GPS powered tour app and it was amazing and knew exactly where we were to chime in with appropriate information at all times.
Ok, thank you both for confirming I'm not crazy lol.
I definitely don't think people should just wander off hiking with only their cell and no map, especially in really remote areas or off trail, but I do think it makes sense to at least bring your cell with you when hiking as a backup option if things go sideways.
... Staying put and waiting/hoping for rescue is often the best option - especially since she was injured and probably wasn't super familiar with the terrain.
This, combined with telling people where you're planning to go and leaving a note with your intended itinerary in your car. Those things can help a lot with getting you found quicker if something goes wrong!
I hadn’t thought of the itinerary in my car! I’m going to do that going forward.
This past weekend I was backpacking alone on a 30 mile moderately trafficked loop. My Garmin almost died the first day because I left it on in the hotel the night before and then didn’t realize my charging cord was busted. I had zero cell service, but had my maps downloaded, airplane mode (so only GPS) turned on, and a paper map in my pack. At one point I made a poor choice that resulted in me falling, thankfully didn’t slide all the way down, and twisted my knee bad. I didn’t see anyone for at least an hour after that. I can definitely see how someone, very prepared, can end up in a bad spot in someplace larger and less traveled.
This, combined with telling people where you're planning to go and leaving a note with your intended itinerary in your car. Those things can help a lot with getting you found quicker if something goes wrong!
I hadn’t thought of the itinerary in my car! I’m going to do that going forward.
This past weekend I was backpacking alone on a 30 mile moderately trafficked loop. My Garmin almost died the first day because I left it on in the hotel the night before and then didn’t realize my charging cord was busted. I had zero cell service, but had my maps downloaded, airplane mode (so only GPS) turned on, and a paper map in my pack. At one point I made a poor choice that resulted in me falling, thankfully didn’t slide all the way down, and twisted my knee bad. I didn’t see anyone for at least an hour after that. I can definitely see how someone, very prepared, can end up in a bad spot in someplace larger and less traveled.
I haven’t backpacked in many years but when I would go we would register our plans at the ranger station, and then leave a note with planned return date and which ranger to contact under the windshield wiper.
I am interested in how this whole thing will unfold. They are suspecting a scam. I am sure if it is it is going to come put pretty quickly. I guess if it is a scam no one learned their lesson from the Philly homeless guy debacle. They always find out sooner or later when it's a scam.
I'm glad she's safe but I'm definitely starting to think the whole story is suspect.
This has been my gut feeling from the get-go. I've just been waiting for the rest of the story to unfold, and didn't want to sound like an asshole for doubting her story.
Post by theoriginalbean on Oct 22, 2020 8:05:38 GMT -5
It very well could be a scam and I agree that it sounds a little fishy with the added details from the sheriff, but (anecdote alert) we often day hike with hammocks (because comfy lunch spot) and always, always carry a filtration system that would have worked on the toxins in that water source. You never know what could happen when you're out there. So those two things would not be scam flags, for me.