Post by NewOrleans on Oct 23, 2020 15:05:19 GMT -5
I am not even being hyperbolic. I don’t enjoy living in this country. I don’t feel I get much return on investment of taxes. I don’t think the standard of living is so much higher than other Western countries. I don’t feel safe. My values don’t align with the citizenry or the government.
Besides marrying someone in the country of your choice, how do you get out of Dodge and head to Europe, NZ, Australia, or Canada? Like, I want legally out, not just physically.
Post by bugandbibs on Oct 23, 2020 15:18:47 GMT -5
The “easiest” way is to find a job and have them sponsor you. Or look for countries where you can establish residency as a resident alien. Needing to work (I assume) makes it more complicated because you need to be eligible for a work visa and that varies by country.
share.memebox.com/x/uKhKaZmemebox referal code for 20% off! DD1 "J" born 3/2003 DD2 "G" born 4/2011 DS is here! "H" born 2/2014 m/c#3 1-13-13 @ 9 weeks m/c#2 11-11-12 @ 5w2d I am an extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby wearing, pro marriage equality, birth control lovin', Catholic mama.
Post by DesertMoon on Oct 23, 2020 15:20:33 GMT -5
If you have issue with taxes them Canada and Australia probably aren't for you. Although Canada does have universal healthcare it's still almost impossible to be a home owner here and the cost of living is comparable to california, probably higher. I am an American, I married a Canadian though. I agree with getting a work Visa and finding a job abroad as the best legal course.
Post by mrsukyankee on Oct 23, 2020 15:21:39 GMT -5
It's really next to impossible at this point as so many nations are closing rank in a weird way. Honestly, I'd move out of the UK if I could as I don't feel the gov't is really a good fit for me, but I'm hoping that in time, we'll make changes and end up back in the EU. You are going to find out that there are people who aren't a good fit in every country and people who are a good fit - the US just happens to be HUGE and so there are more of both. There doesn't appear to be any 'perfect' place in this world.
share.memebox.com/x/uKhKaZmemebox referal code for 20% off! DD1 "J" born 3/2003 DD2 "G" born 4/2011 DS is here! "H" born 2/2014 m/c#3 1-13-13 @ 9 weeks m/c#2 11-11-12 @ 5w2d I am an extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby wearing, pro marriage equality, birth control lovin', Catholic mama.
If you have issue with taxes them Canada and Australia probably aren't for you. Although Canada does have universal healthcare it's still almost impossible to be a home owner here and the cost of living is comparable to california, probably higher. I am an American, I married a Canadian though. I agree with getting a work Visa and finding a job abroad as the best legal course.
My only issue with taxes is that we don’t have enough tax revenue because we refuse to tax our churches, corporations, or wealthy people, so we do not appropriately fund education, the arts, healthcare, etc.
Post by dutchgirl678 on Oct 23, 2020 15:31:18 GMT -5
It is not easy if you are not marrying a citizen but another way to do it is to try to get a job where they can get you a work permit. Are you in a field where you could easily be employed elsewhere? When we moved to the Netherlands, my DH who is American had a really hard time finding a job. The main issue was that in his field it was really hard to get anywhere if you didn't have the contacts already and people were not willing to look outside their circle of Dutch professionals.
This, although you'll still have to pay taxes to the US government as long as you remain a US citizen.
We did this for years, but when you fill out your taxes, you have to say how much in taxes you pay in the country of residence. We always paid more than our fair share there and were never double taxes. So while we had to fill in our tax form, our tax liability to the US was $0.
It is not easy if you are not marrying a citizen but another way to do it is to try to get a job where they can get you a work permit. Are you in a field where you could easily be employed elsewhere? When we moved to the Netherlands, my DH who is American had a really hard time finding a job. The main issue was that in his field it was really hard to get anywhere if you didn't have the contacts already and people were not willing to look outside their circle of Dutch professionals.
This is exactly the problem. I don’t know, honestly.
Post by mrsukyankee on Oct 23, 2020 15:35:56 GMT -5
I'll be honest with you. I think the grass is greener in this case. You only hear the bad in the US, but those of us living overseas, well, we hear the bad that's happening over here and, while it's not the same, it's still not great. We also have corruption, idiocy, right wing stuff, etc. There is no one place that will make anyone perfectly happy. I get wanting to leave the US right now but I do hope that the majority of people are actually not Trump supporting idiots, same as hoping that in England, we don't have a BJ supporting majority...but the minority of idiots are louder. I'm trying to work on making this place as best as I can, despite the fact that we're leaving the EU and life is going to get very difficult. I have the option to buy a golden visa and yet, we're not going to do it. If you really want to leave the US, a golden visa may be the way to go for you, as it is for many expats (if you have at least half a million euros).
This, although you'll still have to pay taxes to the US government as long as you remain a US citizen.
We did this for years, but when you fill out your taxes, you have to say how much in taxes you pay in the country of residence. We always paid more than our fair share there and were never double taxes. So while we had to fill in our tax form, our tax liability to the US was $0.
BUT, if you own property (and want to sell) or want to have a retirement fund in another country, then yes, you may have to pay extra taxes.
If you are the descendent of a citizen of certain European countries (Italy, as already mentioned, but others too) you may have a right to apply for citizenship. Portugal I believe is fairly liberal in giving out residency permits and has some tax benefits for foreign citizens.
As to whether it’s worth it... Standard of living is a hard concept to define. I do think a lot of Americans (not you, necessarily - I’m speaking generally here) romanticize life abroad, particularly in the socialist democracies. My husband is Italian, I have citizenship there, and we do intend to move back over there within the next 5 or so years, once he is mostly retired. However, professionally and financially it never made sense to move earlier. You do get more for your taxes, but they are also way, way higher over there, and salaries are lower. In some ways, certainly in Italy, they are a couple of decades behind the US (xenophobia, racism, and homophobia are all still much more mainstream that in much of the US). Life is less convenient in many ways - but better in others. The food is great, people believe in universal health care, there’s ample public transportation, and they get a decent amount of vacation.
I should say, if you can manage it, one solution is to work abroad for a US company. Then you get US salary levels, which are generally much higher.
To evaluate your occupational opportunities, consider whether you have an in demand skillset.
I am an HR Director whose special skill is understanding employment law exceptionally well so I help my company avoid legal fees both by policy and in specific situations. That’s not that valuable in another country because I only know US law. I might get on with an oil and gas company in Calgary that has employees on both sides of the border, but beyond that i’m not that desirable vs a country’s own citizens.
Canada’s immigration process is fairly transparent online. It is a point system that looks at things like your type of education, languages you speak (bonus if you speak French), your age, and your personal wealth. When Trump was elected I discovered I pretty much had 2 years based on my points to decide to move or be stuck here. If I were 3 years younger I could apply today if I could get a job. But unless I come into some significant wealth that I want to invest there, I’ve passed my deadline.
Unless your family have recent immigrant experiences to the US, it is pretty hard unless you are in a stem field.
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My daughter wants to emigrate so we have looked at universities for her in other countries and where I could follow via chain migration.
NZ is pretty difficult - you basically have to put up a million-dollar bond if you decide to just move there and become a citizen, as a guarantee you can support yourself for X number of years. They may have a program that's similar to a worker visa program, but you can't just move there. My H lived there for a little over a year, but that was a job and it was a finite contract, no sponsorship of citizenship (which I guess is fine, since we met while he was technically still there and he had to move back if I was going to actually date him.) My boss's boss has family in South Africa trying to move SOMEWHERE and it's really difficult to move almost anywhere BUT the US, although I think they are trying for the UK as well.
I will say that my SIL has dual citizenship in the US/Canada (she was born when my in-laws were living in Toronto for FIL's job at the time) and I have no idea why she's cooling her heels in CT. One of my coworkers is also Canadian - like, only moved here a few years ago to get married because her H is American, but I can tell you she's really reconsidering where they should live.
I've mainly researched Latin America because that's where we plan to retire. I've looked at them more from a retirement standpoint, but most have options for non retirees too. Some of the easier ones are Mexico, Colombia, Ecuador, Panama, Costa Rica. These are really only options if your job allows you to work remotely.
michelle that’s exactly why I asked— I found what you found. And so I feel trapped and hate it even more here.
I am sorry.
If you want to switch careers, I think nurses are needed everywhere and you could see if you could get sponsored for somewhere in Europe.
Also, similar to what msmerymac said, some people who CAN be in Canada simply aren’t and are ok with that. My colleague’s husband is Canadian and just got his US Citizenship. I am going to ask my colleague if he will also get Canadian citizenship so they both can have dual citizenship, but they both seem content to live in Houston and just vacation in Nova Scotia.
My aunt and uncle moved to Belize last year when he retired. They're not super rich or even rich by any means. They like and seem happy. The process didn't seem too difficult.
I know a couple who have lived abroad for years teaching at The American International School. They were in China (not sure where) for many years and are in Vienna now. My husband’s cousin has been teaching English as a Second Language in several Asian countries for decades.
I'll be honest with you. I think the grass is greener in this case. You only hear the bad in the US, but those of us living overseas, well, we hear the bad that's happening over here and, while it's not the same, it's still not great. We also have corruption, idiocy, right wing stuff, etc. There is no one place that will make anyone perfectly happy. I get wanting to leave the US right now but I do hope that the majority of people are actually not Trump supporting idiots, same as hoping that in England, we don't have a BJ supporting majority...but the minority of idiots are louder. I'm trying to work on making this place as best as I can, despite the fact that we're leaving the EU and life is going to get very difficult. I have the option to buy a golden visa and yet, we're not going to do it. If you really want to leave the US, a golden visa may be the way to go for you, as it is for many expats (if you have at least half a million euros).
All of this is true. My husband is British and we live in the United States, but he thinks the UK is just as badly off as we are at the moment. I disagree, but I think it’s because we’re here. If we were still in London I’d probably be trying to figure out a way to get out of there as well.
H and I are pretty stuck here; we're both attorneys and would have difficulty restarting careers of value outside the US where we're licensed in-state, and can waive (or even test if we really had to) into other states with reasonable ease. I feel incredibly grateful to live in a blue state where I feel relatively safe and aligned with the direction of the government. Even on bad days, it makes the dumpster fire of a US national situation feel more tolerable. If I were in a red state, I'd certainly at least look for a way to move to a bluer state.
Post by penguingrrl on Oct 23, 2020 16:21:50 GMT -5
A good family friend teaches at an international school and has for the past decade. She’s in Budapest and was previously in Beijing. She absolutely loves doing it! And she went that route because she’s a single mother and couldn’t afford to live on a teachers salary in the US. She has never regretted it.
I know a couple who have lived abroad for years teaching at The American International School. They were in China (not sure where) for many years and are in Vienna now. My husband’s cousin has been teaching English as a Second Language in several Asian countries for decades.
My GTFO plan was to get an entry-level English teaching job in China that would sponsor my visa (that's how my brother originally moved there) but now China won't even admit Americans. But once countries start reopening their borders, that's an option.
I believe NZ offers a special visa or path to residency for workers in high-demand fields. I'll see if I can find more info. ETA: skillshortages.immigration.govt.nz/