Real talk: how do you leave the US?

[DesertMoon]

Oct 23, 2020 22:29:57 GMT -5 mich1 said:

Oct 23, 2020 20:55:01 GMT -5 loira said:

No, this doesn't seem right. There's got to be some other reason for the hold up. My H is American and was able to apply internally for permanent residency via family class. He got a work permit within 4 months and permanent residency within 7 months. We did not use an immigration lawyer and the process, though involved, was very doable. You only need 3 years of residency in Canada to be able to apply for citizenship. Maybe she's waiting on citizenship but it doesn't make sense that she can't work. Even dependents of people on student visas are allowed to work.

ETA: The border guard who first admitted H explained that he was allowed to leave, and very likely would be let back in, but did admit that there was a small risk associated with it (if he got the wrong border guard on the wrong day). So no one is prevented from leaving and re-entering through the process.

I don’t know the specifics.  DH’s cousin is a Canadian, who married a woman from Africa.  I wasn’t around when all this happened, but only telling what she told me.  As her siblings in the US are highly educated (doctors, lawyers) I presume she is too.  Maybe she can’t work due to licensure?  

I know that the province she is in has delayed her citizenship due to the lines.  Apparently, in BC you can buy your way to the top of the line....which is why it is taking so long.  They were kicking about moving to Saskatchewan, as the lines aren’t as long.  

The border issue might be due to her African passport....she is not a US citizen.  

Ah yes. So in the refugee program the African countries has up to 10 year wait times due to paperwork and difficulty of getting to embassies. Makes sense now.

[sent]

You don't want to consider moving to another state first?

My view of leaving America is colored by the fact that I have brown skin so I'd imagine racism would be a factor if I moved somewhere. I feel like I wouldn't be seen as an American. I have experienced racism here, but I know how to work the system if necessary to protect my family. I think this would be much harder to do in a new country.

If I wasn't already entrenched in my current location due to owning a local business, the only other place I would have considered moving to is Canada. It's also the only other place my degrees are recognized equivalently but at this point, I don't feel like taking a bunch of licensing exams over again to be able to practice in Canada. Basically my husband would have to get some super high paying job for us to ever consider moving, and he would never consider leaving Wall Street banks for his career so being expats is not in our future right now. Maybe in the future when I've sold my practice and moved over to consulting gigs. He would love to live in Europe. 

[winecat]

Oct 24, 2020 9:41:07 GMT -5 atexan said:

Oct 23, 2020 16:26:09 GMT -5 carmenere said:

My GTFO plan was to get an entry-level English teaching job in China that would sponsor my visa (that's how my brother originally moved there) but now China won't even admit Americans. But once countries start reopening their borders, that's an option.

I believe NZ offers a special visa or path to residency for workers in high-demand fields. I'll see if I can find more info. ETA: skillshortages.immigration.govt.nz/

Sweet, my job is on the list. Deuces, y'all.

I could get a visa being a baker.  Who knew?

[NewOrleans]

Oct 24, 2020 10:21:33 GMT -5 sent said:

You don't want to consider moving to another state first?

I love my state!  It’s one of the only good things about the States at all.  

[stever]

Oct 24, 2020 6:33:38 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

I had no idea engineering was in demand in new Zealand. Huh. I've never visited so I'm not going to pick up and move but fun to think about!

@@@@@
My kid is autistic which seriously limits our interest in picking up and moving. I know it's only anecdotes but all the people i know in Canada and Mexico have described the special education system as much more dire than in the US (for autism specifically, I don't know about across the board). @@@@


I imagine there are 1000 little things like that which you just don't think about (grass is greener) until you get there are it's like Fuck there is no ______ in this country.

Pdq and @@@@@@@



A friend of mine in London has an autistic kiddo and his school takes very good care of him. How it would complicate immigration is another story.

[foundmylazybum]

Oct 24, 2020 8:58:43 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

Oct 24, 2020 8:42:45 GMT -5 just said:

Well it’s a REALLY lengthy and difficult process to renounce US citizenship so even if you can find somewhere to let you live and work, it’s not like people are hopping on planes for the first time and leaving their passports behind.

Yeah. It’s $$$$ too.

Definitely

[jennybee1018]

I left the US 11 years ago, but I still have my US passport/pay US taxes so not sure if that's super helpful :-P

I work for an American university in Qatar in the Middle East. Since we're an American university, I get paid in USD and still pay taxes to the US - which in some ways is easier so I don't have to worry about figuring out what I owe them!

The benefits here are pretty great, and we've been able to travel and save a lot of money, but we'll never be able to come residents here, so we've always known it was a temporary thing. Guessing it's similar in UAE, etc. But if you want to get out for a few years - there are opportunities to work as faculty/staff at universities abroad.

[orangello]

Those NZ skills lists are kind of bananas. Pig farmer, brick layer, outdoor adventure guide...all essential!

[chickadee77]

Oct 23, 2020 18:07:28 GMT -5 audette said:

Oct 23, 2020 17:04:38 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

We're starting the research of moving to Canada (likely Manitoba or Ontario). His family has had property there since the 1940's, so we're hoping that might help somehow - also, we go up every year (except this year, obvs) for about a month, sometimes longer. His job is WFH, but in an international business where his physical location doesn't matter much, so again, fingers crossed.

I grew up in WI, so the climate difference doesn't phase me much. I realize the grass is always greener, to some degree, but this has been on our minds for 10-15 years, so it's not a new thing, lol.

So, no info, but solidarity.

Wait, someone wants to move _to_ Manitoba?!!!!


@neworleans - I graduated with an in-demand degree, and had a job offer in the US in hand.  The job offered visa sponsorship, and off I moved (from Canada).  Generally the "easiest" route to immigration is based on employer sponsorship.

We also spent a couple years overseas due to DH's military service.  Not the type of move you're thinking about, but, a DOD job as a civilian could offer overseas opportunities - there were civilian administrators and support personnel of varying sorts there.


I have maintained my Canadian citizenship.  It offers us the opportunity to move north if we choose to.  I maintain a green card in the US, so I have most of the rights folks down here have.  I don't know what the next while brings, but it's nice to have the reassurance of that in our back pocket.


With your name here, is there a chance you speak French?  That would go a long way to helping you with the point system in Canada, from what I understand.

We like the Winnipeg area, so there it is. Our property is in the middle of nowhere Ontario, but Winnipeg is the closest city at about 3 hours away. Kenora is closer, so that's on the board for us, too. We want to be (very) rural, but have at least a hospital within a couple hours. Sounds like there may be something we're missing though - is there a big red flag of which we're unaware, (nervous) lol?

[audette]

Oct 24, 2020 16:21:58 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

Oct 23, 2020 18:07:28 GMT -5 audette said:

Wait, someone wants to move _to_ Manitoba?!!!!


@neworleans - I graduated with an in-demand degree, and had a job offer in the US in hand.  The job offered visa sponsorship, and off I moved (from Canada).  Generally the "easiest" route to immigration is based on employer sponsorship.

We also spent a couple years overseas due to DH's military service.  Not the type of move you're thinking about, but, a DOD job as a civilian could offer overseas opportunities - there were civilian administrators and support personnel of varying sorts there.


I have maintained my Canadian citizenship.  It offers us the opportunity to move north if we choose to.  I maintain a green card in the US, so I have most of the rights folks down here have.  I don't know what the next while brings, but it's nice to have the reassurance of that in our back pocket.


With your name here, is there a chance you speak French?  That would go a long way to helping you with the point system in Canada, from what I understand.

We like the Winnipeg area, so there it is. Our property is in the middle of nowhere Ontario, but Winnipeg is the closest city at about 3 hours away. Kenora is closer, so that's on the board for us, too. We want to be (very) rural, but have at least a hospital within a couple hours. Sounds like there may be something we're missing though - is there a big red flag of which we're unaware, (nervous) lol?

Oh!  I'm sorry to needlessly worry you...

Manitoba is one of the more rural provinces, and over the years you hear about countless bands/musicians/artists/sportspuck/sportsball players that come _from_ Manitoba.  It's mostly a tongue-in-cheek joke about that.  Of the folks I know that do live in Manitoba, other than it being rather flat, and not having much for big cities, they are happy where they're at.

[mbcdefg]

I work for a Canadian company. I’ve never considered leaving the US and am not considering it now ... but since the topic is being discussed and I already work remotely for a job that’s based in Ontario I’m curious as to how this might work.

[dellabear]

Oct 23, 2020 20:49:15 GMT -5 loira said:

Oct 23, 2020 19:08:20 GMT -5 isabel said:

My company has offices that I work with in Calgary and I genuinely think I could make a play to join the team up there. Similarly, DH's company has offices in several locations around the world and could also probably make a similar play. He is wrapping up a doctoral degree this year with the University of Calgary and there's a possibility he could get a university position with an international school, whether in Canada or somewhere else. I think it's doable for us, but, as lots of others have said, it would be to follow employment opportunities.

All that said, I honestly don't feel a strong pull to leave the country in spite of what I might yell exasperatedly at times. Europe has plenty of racism and corruption. Canada, Australia and New Zealand all seem like good spots and would be potential options available to us for jobs, but Australia and New Zealand are realistically just too far for us to move right now. New Zealand truly is a magical place, but I don't know enough to really understand if we could have successful careers there and live comfortably. Ultimately, Canada is probably the best option and I'd happily move someplace like Calgary, which is not dissimilar to Denver. Of course, ask me again on November 3rd how I feel about this and I may be packing my bags. lolsob.

I'd really advise you to think carefully about Calgary depending on your industry. I spent a portion of my childhood and teen years in the city and still have lots of family and friends there. It is a good city, with lots of fun outdoor stuff an hour or so away. But it is very much a boom and bust town, and right now things are pretty bad there. I know a number of people who have lost their jobs recently and the current provincial government seems wed to oil and gas with little to no investment in other sectors.

Yes, also the provincial political climate is very right wing, and the current premier is awful and likely to never lose power.  

[NewOrleans]

Oct 24, 2020 14:43:08 GMT -5 jennybee1018 said:

I left the US 11 years ago, but I still have my US passport/pay US taxes so not sure if that's super helpful :-P

I work for an American university in Qatar in the Middle East. Since we're an American university, I get paid in USD and still pay taxes to the US - which in some ways is easier so I don't have to worry about figuring out what I owe them!

The benefits here are pretty great, and we've been able to travel and save a lot of money, but we'll never be able to come residents here, so we've always known it was a temporary thing. Guessing it's similar in UAE, etc. But if you want to get out for a few years - there are opportunities to work as faculty/staff at universities abroad.

Are you in an instructional role, or something different?

[rubytue]

Sometimes I dream of this, then I realize I have no ties to any other country (family lines go back to Jamestown). Plus, my job is so US dependent, I’m almost as specialized as a US attorney. My specialization is regulatory project management under the administrative procedures act. Yeah, take that outside the US. I’ve looked into H getting a German passport, and he could, with a ton of paperwork, effort, and convincing his mom to do it first. So yeah, we are stuck here.

My friend was born in an EU country but lost his citizenship card and said he got frustrated with the embassy trying to fix it. Yet, I’m pretty sure he will consider it if the worst happens in 10 days. Ironically, he came here as a kid from a refugee camp (I don’t have details other than an offhand mention). He has joked about going back as a refugee again.

[centralsquare]

Oct 23, 2020 18:30:07 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

As others said, some European countries have more lax standards than others. I have tri-citizenship (US/UK/Ireland) even though I was born in the US, and I submitted my kids' Irish foreign birth certificate applications a few weeks ago just in case shit hits the fan (DH can theoretical, pre-C19, get a spousal visa easily). For Ireland you only need a grandparent born there and then you can pass citizenship down indefinitely as long as your parent has it first (i.e. my kids wouldn't be eligible if I hadn't already applied for mine before they were born).

My mom could have done this in Ireland and didn’t. I’m so frustrated about it.

[sent]

Oct 24, 2020 14:43:08 GMT -5 jennybee1018 said:

The benefits here are pretty great, and we've been able to travel and save a lot of money, but we'll never be able to come residents here, so we've always known it was a temporary thing. Guessing it's similar in UAE, etc. But if you want to get out for a few years - there are opportunities to work as faculty/staff at universities abroad. 

My uncle and his family have been in the UAE since 1992. He is an engineer and the whole family works, my aunt and my cousins. They maintain a residence in Mumbai because the UAE will not allow them to stay forever even though they've been there more than 30 years. One of my cousins came to the US for her Master's and won the H1B lottery a few years ago. She is debating if she should apply for a green card or just go back to the UAE. 

[jennybee1018]

Oct 24, 2020 17:13:47 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Oct 24, 2020 14:43:08 GMT -5 jennybee1018 said:

I left the US 11 years ago, but I still have my US passport/pay US taxes so not sure if that's super helpful :-P

I work for an American university in Qatar in the Middle East. Since we're an American university, I get paid in USD and still pay taxes to the US - which in some ways is easier so I don't have to worry about figuring out what I owe them!

The benefits here are pretty great, and we've been able to travel and save a lot of money, but we'll never be able to come residents here, so we've always known it was a temporary thing. Guessing it's similar in UAE, etc. But if you want to get out for a few years - there are opportunities to work as faculty/staff at universities abroad.

Are you in an instructional role, or something different?

I'm a staff member - I work in Payroll/Finance. My husband is a college professor.

[jennybee1018]

Oct 24, 2020 19:57:55 GMT -5 sent said:

Oct 24, 2020 14:43:08 GMT -5 jennybee1018 said:

The benefits here are pretty great, and we've been able to travel and save a lot of money, but we'll never be able to come residents here, so we've always known it was a temporary thing. Guessing it's similar in UAE, etc. But if you want to get out for a few years - there are opportunities to work as faculty/staff at universities abroad. 

My uncle and his family have been in the UAE since 1992. He is an engineer and the whole family works, my aunt and my cousins. They maintain a residence in Mumbai because the UAE will not allow them to stay forever even though they've been there more than 30 years. One of my cousins came to the US for her Master's and won the H1B lottery a few years ago. She is debating if she should apply for a green card or just go back to the UAE. 

Yeah Qatar is very similar. They did start a process to allow people who have been here for a long time to apply for permanent residency, but there are a lot of stipulations.

That is great for your cousin - I'm sure that's a tough decision!

[wildrice]

If you are looking to move because of political/social reasons, I am not sure China is a great option! I would love to visit or even live there temporarily, but it does not seem like a place where I would fit in very easily.

My H is anothet Brit who refuses to move back to England. We do talk about leaving the US from time to time but going home isn't even on his list of possibilities. I do think certain things are better there, but they are not things we suffer over personally in the US (like we hate the US healthcare system, but we have very good, affordable insurance so it would be silly to move just to get national healthcare). His parents currently live in Berlin, and it seems like a place that would check all our boxes... But his parents being there is a downside for him, lol. His mom is a citizen so perhaps that would help us be allowed there, though. His dad and sister both have Irish passports, so that's another option for us. Really, though, it seems kind of unlikely we are going anywhere.

[jamaicam]

Oct 23, 2020 20:42:06 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

I know someone who just up and moved to Jamaica after a divorce. She seems incredibly happy about her decision.

Hahaha tell me more!!!!

The international school teachers here do seem to have a cushy life, but they are at an established school that is part of an international system, rather than freelance tutors.

[basilosaurus]

Oct 25, 2020 7:28:21 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

Oct 23, 2020 20:42:06 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

I know someone who just up and moved to Jamaica after a divorce. She seems incredibly happy about her decision.

Hahaha tell me more!!!!

The international school teachers here do seem to have a cushy life, but they are at an established school that is part of an international system, rather than freelance tutors.

yes tell me more! I have to leave Malaysia probably by end end of year. I do not have winter clothes. Where's my next?

[mskitkat]

Oct 25, 2020 7:28:21 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

Oct 23, 2020 20:42:06 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

I know someone who just up and moved to Jamaica after a divorce. She seems incredibly happy about her decision.

Hahaha tell me more!!!!

The international school teachers here do seem to have a cushy life, but they are at an established school that is part of an international system, rather than freelance tutors.

I honestly don’t know the details of her move. She went quiet after her divorce and suddenly popped up in Jamaica. She is self employed teaching anti-racism, writing books, and leading anti racism/yoga trips. Now she is also teaching other Black people how to leave the US, I think.

[MixedBerryJam]

Oct 23, 2020 15:15:45 GMT -5 Queen Dick, Hibernating Bear said:

2a. Apply for citizenship if applicable. I am eligible for Italian citizenship by descent through my mother but the process takes years.

Fraud! We know you are a Spanish duchess! 

[WOT?*]

Oct 24, 2020 15:21:36 GMT -5 orangello said:

Those NZ skills lists are kind of bananas. Pig farmer, brick layer, outdoor adventure guide...all essential!

Damn, I wonder if I could get my brother to teach me how to be a pig farmer. (Well, he's horses and cows but has raised pigs for eating and sale.)

[wise_rita]

I just read an article today about how Australia's population (and therefore economic) growth will nosedive in a post-Covid world. Bringing in immigrants that breed is the only way to fund their pensioner liabilities, so this is a problem.

A few years back they tightened the flow of immigrants, but when borders can and do open up again I see them opening up wide.

Australia has had cooks and hairdressers on the skilled occupation list in the past, where a job offer grants you temporary residency, with the option for permanent residency and citizenship. When things calm down with the pandemic I think there will be ample opportunity for people wanting to move here.

On that note, I checked the dates in this thread multiple times because y'all are talking like there's no pandemic on right now.  Life might be pretty normal in the USA but Australia is closed tight, even to its own citizens stuck abroad.  Until SHTF I didn't grasp that fact that living overseas could mean stuck overseas, indefinitely.  Nobody ever mentioned that in Expat Living 101.