It’s Friday! We did it Joe!

[mrsd2006]

rubytue, I hope he's doing better now.

[msmerymac]

Jan 22, 2021 13:19:52 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Jan 22, 2021 13:14:01 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

More executive orders coming. One includes:

"And another would ask the Labor Department to make clear that workers who refuse to return to working conditions that could expose them to the coronavirus should be eligible for unemployment insurance."

Does anyone know the details of this? Can states refuse to follow this and not give people unemployment if they choose not to return to work?

www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/01/22/biden-increase-food-stamps/

Whoa - this could be a nightmare.

Texas can't effectively handle the current unemployment claims as it is.

We have employees who refused to return to desk jobs in areas approved by infection control experts as not putting them at risk for catching COVID, especially since all our entrances in all buildings have fever-checking stations, masks and face shields are required, office areas have been restructured so people are at least 10 feet from each other at all times, a ton of people are rotating work from home so more of those departments have people in private offices or spread out 20 feet or more.

Who will decide if the working conditions place someone at risk for covid if the general community levels are greater than 10-15% anyway?

I mean... unless you've installed UV-based filters in the HVAC or installed self-contained HVAC in each office, and/or are misting the entire area with a disinfection system daily, then no. Checking temperatures is really security theater. 

[5kcandlesinthewind]

Jan 22, 2021 14:33:16 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jan 22, 2021 14:29:51 GMT -5 isabel said:

Yes! I’m seeing a bunch of “could have had Bernie in the White House!” And now I’m just irritated all over again. Lol stop trying to make fetch happen!

There was one saying essentially that Bernie couldn’t be bothered with the emotional labor of pretending to be happy at a big work event like women everywhere are expected to do and of course the Bernie Brigade came for the poor woman who posted it and she was forced to delete the tweet and issue an apology. All because someone dared to poke a little feminist fun at dear old Saint Bernard. Give me a break.

I saw Imani Gandy yelling at the Bro claiming Bernie upstaged all the pageantry. No, my dude. Cranky old white man being made a meme does not upstage the 22 year old poet who blew away everyone with 2 brain cells to rub together, nor did he upstage the history made at that ceremony. Fuck all the way off.

[mskitkat]

Haven’t we been saying from the beginning we need to be paying people to stay home? I am certainly no expert on anything, but it’s weird to me that people are suddenly resistant to that idea.

[rubytue]

Jan 22, 2021 16:39:36 GMT -5 mrsd2006 said:

rubytue , I hope he's doing better now.

He is. The difference is amazing. He actually booked a camping reservation for may. And then turned to me and said “this is the first time I can think about making future plans.” Before, he couldn’t even think about the future. 

[sonrisa]

Jan 22, 2021 14:29:51 GMT -5 isabel said:

Jan 22, 2021 14:20:57 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

This is not political news but after enjoying Bernie memes for a record 2 days I’m now forced to hate him again because the Bernie people cannot fucking do ANYTHING without being insufferable.

Yes! I’m seeing a bunch of “could have had Bernie in the White House!” 

Yeah, that has been one of my thoughts lately, but not the way the bros think.

Bernie is uniquely badly suited to this moment. He can't work with others. He has his own ideas but they aren't completely fleshed out and he doesn't have the "delegate to the best" mentality that Joe has - more of the "delegate to the most favored" even if they don't go as deep.

Kamala is rising to the moment. Warren could have risen to the moment and kicked ass. Castro would have cared. But Bernie? He would have been the absolute worst at managing this. Well, maybe Marianne, Tulsi and a few others would have been even worse but it's a close competition.

[notsopicky]

RE: the Bernie memes, I agree, it's too much, BUT......check out the shirt. store.berniesanders.com/products/chairman-sanders-crewneck?variant=32787050004551&fbclid=IwAR245us6HJvoMJxxT_NS0z10IGbILgElKfuofYWi2nmMDMItEl3a0b-BLcc

All proceeds go to VT's Meals on Wheels.

[SusanBAnthony]

Jan 22, 2021 17:20:02 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Haven’t we been saying from the beginning we need to be paying people to stay home? I am certainly no expert on anything, but it’s weird to me that people are suddenly resistant to that idea.

I was and still am fully supportive of an actual full scale lock down, which we have never and IMO will never do.

But this doesn't do that. It's a beaurocratic nightmare that will cost a lot in overhead and not actually fix anything (because it isn't a full lockdown). Instead of paying people to administer this halfway measure, just pay everyone (actually everyone, China style, you can't have a million exemptions) to stay home.

[TR]

Ok, I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but everyone can't stay home. They just can't. Shit like electricity and water and other utilities have to run, food has to be distributed, etc. So there have to be exceptions and so you have to draw lines somewhere. And the drawing of the lines is a nightmare, I'm sure. I'm not saying we shouldn't try. But it's not as easy as saying, "Just pay everyone to stay home!"

[rondonalddo]

I could be completely wrong, but maybe the unemployment protection goes hand in hand with directing OSHA to review and administer new COVID worker protections? www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/21/executive-order-protecting-worker-health-and-safety/

[pugz]

I feel like Biden might be on track to accomplish more in a week than his predecessor did in 4 years...

[wanderingback]

Jan 22, 2021 17:20:02 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Haven’t we been saying from the beginning we need to be paying people to stay home? I am certainly no expert on anything, but it’s weird to me that people are suddenly resistant to that idea.

I was just wondering about the details.
Does anyone actually know?
The only reason I’m asking is because the EO doesn’t seem to specify how states enforce this. It doesn’t seem like businesses will be shut down/federal "lockdown", just that people can collect unemployment. But hopefully there’s a more comprehensive plan, hence why details would be nice. I know it’s only day 2 of the presidency, was just curious since it was reported on

If scientists and public health officials think a federal lockdown would save people’s health and lives and the EO wants to support that by shutting down businesses and paying people to stay at home, then I’m all for it.

[anodyne]

So much for no more Friday evening news dumps.

Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General

Trying to find another avenue to push his baseless election claims, Donald Trump considered installing a loyalist, and had the men make their cases to him.

www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/politics/jeffrey-clark-trump-justice-department-election.html#click=https://t.co/sa2xIDNOf0

[lilac05]

Jan 22, 2021 20:57:05 GMT -5 kellady said:

I’m just watching this on All In With Chris Hayes.  So if one were to calmly try to convince a Trumper that this is a bad thing, how does one handle claims of Fake News!  How do you answer that?

Sadly, I just don’t think there’s any conversation to be had with people who quickly jump to “fake news” at the first sight of anything that they don’t want to be true. That’s a lot different than people who say, “I don’t think this is the whole story” or “There’s a flip-side to this” or “I think this is biased.” The term “fake news” has come to signify a non-starter for me. 

The only even potential next step for a conversation, IMO, is to ask them for an article outlining the same topic from a different perspective. Then read it and go from there. (But then know that your “fake news” to them will be as well-received as theirs is to you.)

We can see an issue from two angles and have a discussion...but the “fake news” people aren’t interested in discussing anything.

[susquehanna]

Jan 22, 2021 18:24:14 GMT -5 TR said:

Ok, I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but everyone can't stay home. They just can't. Shit like electricity and water and other utilities have to run, food has to be distributed, etc. So there have to be exceptions and so you have to draw lines somewhere. And the drawing of the lines is a nightmare, I'm sure. I'm not saying we shouldn't try. But it's not as easy as saying, "Just pay everyone to stay home!"

Yeah, I roll my eyes every time that somebody suggests that the government pay everybody to stay home. 

So, for instance, let's take the nursing homes. Obviously, we can't just pay all of the nursing home employees to stay home. How will the nursing home residents get bathed and fed and taken to the toilet?

So, let's say that the most vulnerable nursing home employees can get paid to stay home. So, who gets to decide this? Should a 66-year-old nursing home employee get to be paid to stay home? What about a 25-year-old diabetic nursing home employee? What about a 35-year-old nursing home employee who happens to be a cancer survivor? What about an obese 50-year-old nursing home employee? Who gets to decide which of these employees gets paid to stay home, and which of these employees still has to come to work?

[litasail]

Jan 22, 2021 15:48:03 GMT -5 beeks said:

Jan 22, 2021 13:29:48 GMT -5 litasail said:

She's also the sister of the drummer of my favorite band, Guster.  Pretty bad-ass family.

I should have read this before I posted. Hello, fellow Guster lover! My absolute favorite band ever.

Hi - you have excellent taste in music!

[kershnic]

The unemployment order is not some broad sweeping change.... he's just telling the Dept of Labor to create a federal standard, rather than a mishmash of state standards, some of which have been allowing pandemic-related conditions to count under existing unsafe working conditions type clauses, whereas others have not. There have not been mass resignations in states where unemployment is already following this, and it is very very very unlikely that it will happen if the same rules are extended elsewhere.

And as for everyone staying home - yes - for better or for worse a large number of people do jobs that are in fact necessary for keeping society running. Then others are extremely disruptive and costly to stop and start, and also given that we are 10 months into this thing lots of workplaces have come up with safe ways to continue to function. I wish so much we had done a hard shut down already, but I'm not at all convinced that it is the answer now.

[wanderingback]

Jan 22, 2021 22:27:01 GMT -5 kershnic said:

The unemployment order is not some broad sweeping change.... he's just telling the Dept of Labor to create a federal standard, rather than a mishmash of state standards, some of which have been allowing pandemic-related conditions to count under existing unsafe working conditions type clauses, whereas others have not. There have not been mass resignations in states where unemployment is already following this, and it is very very very unlikely that it will happen if the same rules are extended elsewhere.

And as for everyone staying home - yes - for better or for worse a large number of people do jobs that are in fact necessary for keeping society running. Then others are extremely disruptive and costly to stop and start, and also given that we are 10 months into this thing lots of workplaces have come up with safe ways to continue to function. I wish so much we had done a hard shut down already, but I'm not at all convinced that it is the answer now.

Thanks for explaining!
So this guidance is federal but would help states have clearer guidance on what is considered unsafe working conditions?
I knew there had to be details somewhere so this is much appreciated

[kershnic]

Jan 22, 2021 22:31:11 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jan 22, 2021 22:27:01 GMT -5 kershnic said:

The unemployment order is not some broad sweeping change.... he's just telling the Dept of Labor to create a federal standard, rather than a mishmash of state standards, some of which have been allowing pandemic-related conditions to count under existing unsafe working conditions type clauses, whereas others have not. There have not been mass resignations in states where unemployment is already following this, and it is very very very unlikely that it will happen if the same rules are extended elsewhere.

And as for everyone staying home - yes - for better or for worse a large number of people do jobs that are in fact necessary for keeping society running. Then others are extremely disruptive and costly to stop and start, and also given that we are 10 months into this thing lots of workplaces have come up with safe ways to continue to function. I wish so much we had done a hard shut down already, but I'm not at all convinced that it is the answer now.

Thanks for explaining!
So this guidance is federal but would help states have clearer guidance on what is considered unsafe working conditions?
I knew there had to be details somewhere so this is much appreciated

From what I've read, I don't think it's quite that specific... I think it's that they would provide guidance on the concept that pandemic-related safety concerns count the same as other types of unsafe working conditions.  

"If the Department of Labor issues this clarification, it will set a federal standard for a scenario that has been unevenly enforced throughout the pandemic. The Trump administration did not specify whether unemployed people can refuse a job with unsafe conditions and still qualify for unemployment, instead leaving the decision to state governments. Enacting Biden's order would clarify this gray area at the federal level. "
The above quote is from www.businessinsider.com/biden-unemployment-executive-order-trump-coronavirus-economy-2021-1

[aurora]

Jan 22, 2021 20:46:45 GMT -5 anodyne said:

So much for no more Friday evening news dumps.

Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General

Trying to find another avenue to push his baseless election claims, Donald Trump considered installing a loyalist, and had the men make their cases to him.

www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/politics/jeffrey-clark-trump-justice-department-election.html#click=https://t.co/sa2xIDNOf0

Too late to pardon Jeffrey Clark, at least.

[lexus]

Jan 22, 2021 18:24:14 GMT -5 TR said:

Ok, I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but everyone can't stay home. They just can't. Shit like electricity and water and other utilities have to run, food has to be distributed, etc. So there have to be exceptions and so you have to draw lines somewhere. And the drawing of the lines is a nightmare, I'm sure. I'm not saying we shouldn't try. But it's not as easy as saying, "Just pay everyone to stay home!"

Right?! How about the federal government just takes over vaccinations for these people instead. Here’s your vaccines for every teacher in TX, here’s your set for grocery store employees and other essential workers, etc.

[Michelle]

Jan 23, 2021 11:12:24 GMT -5 lexus said:

Jan 22, 2021 18:24:14 GMT -5 TR said:

Ok, I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but everyone can't stay home. They just can't. Shit like electricity and water and other utilities have to run, food has to be distributed, etc. So there have to be exceptions and so you have to draw lines somewhere. And the drawing of the lines is a nightmare, I'm sure. I'm not saying we shouldn't try. But it's not as easy as saying, "Just pay everyone to stay home!"

Right?! How about the federal government just takes over vaccinations for these people instead. Here’s your vaccines for every teacher in TX, here’s your set for grocery store employees and other essential workers, etc.

Gee, that is just too pragmatic! ;-)

Also, you are assuming teachers in Texas aren't followers of Q-Anon and think the vaccine is going to modify their genome and/or make them walk around with aborted fetal parts floating in their blood stream.