I wish they could have objected to defense counsel putting this MMA fighter witness on trial. Why the extended questioning regarding the names he called the officers? As far as I'm aware, he never intervened and assaulted an officer, so what does it matter if he was angry? He had every reason to be angry, scared, etc.
I wish they could have objected to defense counsel putting this MMA fighter witness on trial. Why the extended questioning regarding the names he called the officers? As far as I'm aware, he never intervened and assaulted an officer, so what does it matter if he was angry? He had every reason to be angry, scared, etc.
I don't disagree, but on the flip I was shocked yesterday with all the testimony the defense didn't object to where he testified basically as a quasi-expert witness about choke holds and also testified about what Thao said, which should really have been barred.
I’m watching in an out throughout the day and it seems the defense isn’t doing a good job at all..but I guess it’s hard to defend when you have no defense.
@@ We were talking about this trial in my class today and a kid was all “yeah, but Erin...we know how this is going to end.” And that broke my heart. He’s 13.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I didn’t watch all of today but did watch the firefighter witness testimony. My goodness, it was heart wrenching. All she wanted to do was help and they wouldn’t let her. The prosecutor did a good job of setting her up to explain her training and what a first responder or EMT would do upon seeing someone that needs medical attention. I’m trying to figure out the defenses case here - it almost seemed like when he was questioning her that he was trying to make it sound like the police were just doing their job and she was distracting them? That’s just so ridiculous.
I didn’t watch all of today but did watch the firefighter witness testimony. My goodness, it was heart wrenching. All she wanted to do was help and they wouldn’t let her. The prosecutor did a good job of setting her up to explain her training and what a first responder or EMT would do upon seeing someone that needs medical attention. I’m trying to figure out the defenses case here - it almost seemed like when he was questioning her that he was trying to make it sound like the police were just doing their job and she was distracting them? That’s just so ridiculous.
Agreed. Defense is setting it up that the EMS and fire were called long before she arrived and it wasn’t the officer’s fault that they took so long to get to the acene. Additionally, the continued argument that this “mob” distracted them as they were trying to make the scene safe and couldn’t do so because of the bystanders.
I didn’t like how defensive/argumentative she came across during cross questioning, even the judge gave her a reprimand as they finished for the day. But I loved that she was clear and stood her ground when defense was trying to imply that if she was putting out a fire and bystanders were yelling/insulting her it would distract her.
I didn’t like how defensive/argumentative she came across during cross questioning, even the judge gave her a reprimand as they finished for the day. But I loved that she was clear and stood her ground when defense was trying to imply that if she was putting out a fire and bystanders were yelling/insulting her it would distract her.
100%. I was squirming when the judge scolded her, but then I watched an analysis, and the expert reminded everyone she's one witness of many. She really did do a good job, and while I wish she hadn't begun to lose her cool, I can only imagine how tough it was for her. To be in the spotlight with all those emotions rushing back, and then to have someone picking apart your words and trying to make you appear less than credible, etc. Whew.
I also agree with your points about the defense. I heard somewhere (paraphrasing here), "Is it really a good defense to a murder to say, 'But people were distracting the murderer'?" From what? Murdering? I mean, it's pretty hard to forget you're kneeling on someone's neck if the people yelling at you are telling you to stop doing that!
Retired Sargent who was supervising officer that day— these are just highlights, not the full article!
Pleoger said Chauvin told him Floyd suffered a medical emergency and they had called an ambulance. Pleoger said Chauvin did not say anything about placing a knee on Floyd’s neck.
After the call with Chauvin, Pleoger said he went to the scene with the intention of doing a use of force review. When he arrived, he became the senior officer on the scene....
Once he arrived at the medical center, Pleoger said he was told by staff that Floyd was "doing poorly," and, later, that Floyd had died. Pleoger said he called the liteunant in charge of the city at night to inform him of the critical incident, and that lieutenant prodded Pleoger to ask the officers involved if they used additional force.
Only then did Chauvin tell Pleoger that "he knelt on Floyd or knelt on his neck," Pleoger said.
"Would you agree that a person may be restrained only to the degree necessary to keep them under control," Schleicher asked. "Yes and no more restraint," Pleoger said.
Schleicher asked when the restraint of Floyd shoud have ended. Pleoger replied, "When Mr. Floyd was no longer offering up any resistance to the officers, they could have ended their restraint."
Under the medical assistance provision, officers are required to render medical aid and request EMS, if necessary. Asked by Schleicher if the dangers of positional asphyxia are "generally known" in the department, Pleoger said "yes."
Takeaways: Chauvin was covering up his exact actions. Another thing that becomes clear to me if you read the whole thing is that Chauvin had a very deficit mindset about interviewing the witnesses in the crowd. He called them hostile and implied he wouldn’t get anything out of them. I don’t know if it’s relevant to the murder trial, but these things make it clear he was not objective / approaching the task in a way that would have gotten objective information.
He also was recorded on body cams as saying George Floyd was “going crazy.” Videos are upsetting to me— did anyone see videos played so far that demonstrate he was “going crazy?” I remember how Eric Garner kind of swatted his arms a bit when they grabbed at him and then they disproportionately attacked him— was it like that?
Post by thedutchgirl on Apr 2, 2021 10:01:00 GMT -5
NewOrleans, the video we haven't seen before, from across the street (that the dispatcher could see) does seem to show Floyd really struggling/resisting initially when they were putting him in the back of the squad. I'll be honest that in watching, the initial takedown didn't strike me as out of line because Floyd was fighting getting into the squad car. It's when he stopped struggling (other than to breathe!) that Chauvin should have gotten up. LONG before Floyd passed out.
NewOrleans , the video we haven't seen before, from across the street (that the dispatcher could see) does seem to show Floyd really struggling/resisting initially when they were putting him in the back of the squad. I'll be honest that in watching, the initial takedown didn't strike me as out of line because Floyd was fighting getting into the squad car. It's when he stopped struggling (other than to breathe!) that Chauvin should have gotten up. LONG before Floyd passed out.
Thanks for the explanation. It is not really part of the trial whether the initial takedown was warranted I suppose— only the position and duration of the restraint (although I will editorialize and say for non violent offenses like they suspected him of it just seems like takedowns don’t have to enter the equation).
NewOrleans , the video we haven't seen before, from across the street (that the dispatcher could see) does seem to show Floyd really struggling/resisting initially when they were putting him in the back of the squad. I'll be honest that in watching, the initial takedown didn't strike me as out of line because Floyd was fighting getting into the squad car. It's when he stopped struggling (other than to breathe!) that Chauvin should have gotten up. LONG before Floyd passed out.
Thanks for the explanation. It is not really part of the trial whether the initial takedown was warranted (although I will editorialize and say for non violent offenses like they suspected him of it just seems like takedowns don’t have to enter the equation).
I understand that--lawyer here. Just explaining how it looked based on your question.
Another thing that is in the article I linked was his girlfriend’s testimony about their opiate use/addiction. I guess prosecution is making sure there is nothing to hide about his drug use and to prove George had built a tolerance so the little bit in his system from the test was not enough to kill someone with his tolerance.
That all brings me back to the grossness of the “no perfect victim” standard, the way white people move the goalpost.
Post by thedutchgirl on Apr 2, 2021 10:26:00 GMT -5
Yes, the prosecution is clearly trying to get in front of the drug issue, which I think is smart. Chauvin is going to try to blame that, and blunting the impact from the outset is good strategy.
Another thing that is in the article I linked was his girlfriend’s testimony about their opiate use/addiction. I guess prosecution is making sure there is nothing to hide about his drug use and to prove George had built a tolerance so the little bit in his system from the test was not enough to kill someone with his tolerance.
That all brings me back to the grossness of the “no perfect victim” standard, the way white people move the goalpost.
The prosecution asked the girlfriend about the times that they used drugs and pointed out that George didn't die those times. Trying to lay down the proof that the drugs didn't kill him alone, the actions of Chauvin did.
Thanks for the explanation. It is not really part of the trial whether the initial takedown was warranted (although I will editorialize and say for non violent offenses like they suspected him of it just seems like takedowns don’t have to enter the equation).
I understand that--lawyer here. Just explaining how it looked based on your question.
that was just me thinking it through for myself. 🙂 I didn’t mean to sound lawsplainy
I’ve been watching the trial live as much as possible and it is so upsetting seeing the full picture of what happened. The pain and guilt the witnesses have for not doing things differently is heartbreaking and they didn’t do anything wrong. I imagine they have PTSD from simply being there. It’s a stark comparison to some of the testimony of some of the people involved in a more official capacity.
share.memebox.com/x/uKhKaZmemebox referal code for 20% off! DD1 "J" born 3/2003 DD2 "G" born 4/2011 DS is here! "H" born 2/2014 m/c#3 1-13-13 @ 9 weeks m/c#2 11-11-12 @ 5w2d I am an extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby wearing, pro marriage equality, birth control lovin', Catholic mama.
Agreed. Defense is setting it up that the EMS and fire were called long before she arrived and it wasn’t the officer’s fault that they took so long to get to the acene.
I feel like this has been shut down at this point as they now testified they were called originally for only a mouth injury which was at least a 1.5 minute delay?
Agreed. Defense is setting it up that the EMS and fire were called long before she arrived and it wasn’t the officer’s fault that they took so long to get to the acene.
I feel like this has been shut down at this point as they now testified they were called originally for only a mouth injury which was at least a 1.5 minute delay?
Well I agree, but my original response you are quoting is from Tuesday.
NewOrleans, the video we haven't seen before, from across the street (that the dispatcher could see) does seem to show Floyd really struggling/resisting initially when they were putting him in the back of the squad. I'll be honest that in watching, the initial takedown didn't strike me as out of line because Floyd was fighting getting into the squad car. It's when he stopped struggling (other than to breathe!) that Chauvin should have gotten up. LONG before Floyd passed out.
So after he was handcuffed and in the back of the car, what your thoughts on why the officers took him out of the car?
Also, in your opinion when did he stop struggling?
I didn't know that so many children had witnessed the murder. I already think it's a murder. That is unquestionable to me. But, unsurprisingly, it is even worse than I realized. And the children. Babies having to testify to put a man in prison who ruthlessly took a life? I am outraged.
I didn't know that so many children had witnessed the murder. I already think it's a murder. That is unquestionable to me. But, unsurprisingly, it is even worse than I realized. And the children. Babies having to testify to put a man in prison who ruthlessly took a life? I am outraged.
I can't watch the videos because it is to traumatizing. I cannot imagine those poor children and how they were feeling watching that and how they continue to process it.
NewOrleans , the video we haven't seen before, from across the street (that the dispatcher could see) does seem to show Floyd really struggling/resisting initially when they were putting him in the back of the squad. I'll be honest that in watching, the initial takedown didn't strike me as out of line because Floyd was fighting getting into the squad car. It's when he stopped struggling (other than to breathe!) that Chauvin should have gotten up. LONG before Floyd passed out.
So after he was handcuffed and in the back of the car, what your thoughts on why the officers took him out of the car?
Also, in your opinion when did he stop struggling?
To be very clear, I think Chauvin murdered him and for no reason.
Yesterday’s key testimony. My goodness. The testimony from this person and from the officer I linked the other day is pretty damning.
The officer with the most seniority on the Minneapolis Police Department said on Friday that he's never been trained to put his knee on someone's neck, noting that doing so could kill someone.
The senior officer, Lt. Richard Zimmerman of the department's homicide unit, also testified that putting someone in handcuffs brings the threat level "way down" – and he said anyone who is cuffed while facedown on the ground should be moved immediately.
In court Friday morning, Zimmerman said that restraining Floyd in the way the officers did and for as long as they did was "uncalled for." He added, "I saw no reason why the officers felt they were in danger, if that's what they felt."
Frank asked Zimmerman if he had ever been trained to put his knee on someone's neck.
"No, I haven't," he replied.
When asked what level of force such an action would be considered, he replied, "That would be the top tier, the deadly force." He noted that putting your knee on someone's neck could kill them.
Yes, you are right I don’t know what you are getting at. I watched most but not all of the new video and I don’t know when the handcuffs were on him.
It seemed to me you were implying I was blaming Floyd in some way, which I absolutely am not. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.
No, I just wasn’t sure if you saw that portion of the video because it was new to me that they got him in and then for whatever reason took him out of the car.
Yes, you are right I don’t know what you are getting at. I watched most but not all of the new video and I don’t know when the handcuffs were on him.
It seemed to me you were implying I was blaming Floyd in some way, which I absolutely am not. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.
No, I just wasn’t sure if you saw that portion of the video because it was new to me that they got him in and then for whatever reason took him out of the car.
Yes, this is what I don’t quite get. He was in the backseat, then it looked like they took him out. I read somewhere that it said something like he “got out the other side” or something. You can’t just “get out”of a police car (I don’t think.). So why did they take him out?
No, I just wasn’t sure if you saw that portion of the video because it was new to me that they got him in and then for whatever reason took him out of the car.
Yes, this is what I don’t quite get. He was in the backseat, then it looked like they took him out. I read somewhere that it said something like he “got out the other side” or something. You can’t just “get out”of a police car (I don’t think.). So why did they take him out?