Post by 1confused1 on Apr 15, 2021 11:31:28 GMT -5
I was literally holding my breath when the prosecution was questioning Dr. Tobin again. What a fine line they had to walk.
For those not following, the prosecution submitted new evidence today and the judge said he would declare a mistrial if the witness talked about some test results found in the report.
They are off until Monday, then closing arguments will start.
I was literally holding my breath when the prosecution was questioning Dr. Tobin again. What a fine line they had to walk.
For those not following, the prosecution submitted new evidence today and the judge said he would declare a mistrial if the witness talked about some test results found in the report.
They are off until Monday, then closing arguments will start.
I was literally holding my breath when the prosecution was questioning Dr. Tobin again. What a fine line they had to walk.
For those not following, the prosecution submitted new evidence today and the judge said he would declare a mistrial if the witness talked about some test results found in the report.
They are off until Monday, then closing arguments will start.
I was literally holding my breath when the prosecution was questioning Dr. Tobin again. What a fine line they had to walk.
For those not following, the prosecution submitted new evidence today and the judge said he would declare a mistrial if the witness talked about some test results found in the report.
They are off until Monday, then closing arguments will start.
[br Do you know what was submitted?
Floyd’s carbon monoxide levels after the defense insinuated yesterday that he died of co poisoning from a tail pipe.
I was literally holding my breath when the prosecution was questioning Dr. Tobin again. What a fine line they had to walk.
For those not following, the prosecution submitted new evidence today and the judge said he would declare a mistrial if the witness talked about some test results found in the report.
They are off until Monday, then closing arguments will start.
[br Do you know what was submitted?
Yesterday, the defense insinuated that George died from carbon monoxide poisoning. The lab report shows that the levels couldn’t have been as high as the defense said. Judge issued a mistrial warning if the doctor mentioned the new lab report.
I'm having some trouble following, even after reading both articles. I'm assuming the records/readings the ME found about CO levels essentially *refute* the defense's assertion he could have died of CO poisoning? Because the articles don't actually say what they found, just that the prosecution wanted to introduce it.
Won't the jury have access to the report? Also, won't they hear the info on the news?
*I know they aren't sequestered, but are they not allowed to watch tv/need anything?
**i am not a crim lawyer
I don’t know the specifics for this jury but in past trials I have been familiar with yes - they are sequestered in a hotel with no access to tv news or newspapers and stuff like that. I imagine they are also somehow prevented from looking at news on their phones.
Won't the jury have access to the report? Also, won't they hear the info on the news?
*I know they aren't sequestered, but are they not allowed to watch tv/need anything?
**i am not a crim lawyer
Here is what I have been able to find -
“ During the trial, jurors are being "partially sequestered" for roughly four weeks. Outside of court hours, they must avoid reading or watching anything to do with the trial — and during the selection process and again at the start of the proceedings, Cahill repeatedly told them their role is not to investigate the case on their own, but to weigh the evidence they hear during the trial.”
I'm having some trouble following, even after reading both articles. I'm assuming the records/readings the ME found about CO levels essentially *refute* the defense's assertion he could have died of CO poisoning? Because the articles don't actually say what they found, just that the prosecution wanted to introduce it.
The report showed that his CO levels were in the normal range. The prosecution relayed this information do I don't understand how the jury "unhears" it?
Now defense is saying he died from carbon monoxide poisoning due to the exhaust fumes from the car tailpipe.
I shit you not...
Wouldn’t that... still be homicide?
Yes, but probably negligent homicide/manslaughter. This is their strategy. Be found guilty of the lowest level homicide and pray for a mitigated sentence.
Yes, but probably negligent homicide/manslaughter. This is their strategy. Be found guilty of the lowest level homicide and pray for a mitigated sentence.
If I recall you practice Crim- do you think the jury would go for lower charges given the charges brought against Potter? Assuming they are aware of the circumstances surrounding Wrights death. Totally different circumstances, but same results.
I'm having some trouble following, even after reading both articles. I'm assuming the records/readings the ME found about CO levels essentially *refute* the defense's assertion he could have died of CO poisoning? Because the articles don't actually say what they found, just that the prosecution wanted to introduce it.
The report showed that his CO levels were in the normal range. The prosecution relayed this information do I don't understand how the jury "unhears" it?
So if I understanding, the report showed that the CO level was not relevant to his death. The prosecution said this aloud in court. And they want it removed. Is that correct?
In that case my TV law degree tells me that they tell the jury to disregard or basically forget what they heard. Like they are not allowed to consider it in their decision. But the judge usually tells them to do that.
Won't the jury have access to the report? Also, won't they hear the info on the news?
*I know they aren't sequestered, but are they not allowed to watch tv/need anything?
**i am not a crim lawyer
It depends if the report has been submitted. Prior to the trial there can be days of pre-trial shit where the defense, DA and judge go over what reports, pictures, witnesses etc will be called. The defense and DA can stipulate or agree to allow or not allow evidence. If they can't agree both sides can argue to the judge and the judge will rule what is admissible. I didn't see it, but I am assuming those particular results have been excluded from the trial so when the defense witness brings it up it is incredibly problematic and can cause a mistrial. Just to add- if a witness brings up something that has been omitted prior to the trial, the judge will tell the jury to disregard that portion of the testimony which cannot be included in their deliberations but some damage can be done just by bringing it up. Based on the judge's reaction, I am assuming it was agreed that the CO levels were not to be part of the case but then the witnesses brings it up, thus the threat of a mistrial.
And no, they are not allowed to watch, see or hear anything about the case outside of the courtroom. If they do, it can be a mistrial or grounds for an appeal/retrial if the defendant is found guilty.
Yes, but probably negligent homicide/manslaughter. This is their strategy. Be found guilty of the lowest level homicide and pray for a mitigated sentence.
If I recall you practice Crim- do you think the jury would go for lower charges given the charges brought against Potter? Assuming they are aware of the circumstances surrounding Wrights death. Totally different circumstances, but same results.
Correct, I am a public defender, but, yes, absolutely, they will charge her with some type of manslaughter, probably involuntary but maybe voluntary manslaughter as she was a trained officer. Though premeditation can be made in a second, it will be incredibly difficult to prove first or second degree murder based on that video. Manslaughter is basically designed for these types of cases where gross negligence is in play.
You or I don't have to like it but the goal of the DA is to prove what they can prove within the terms of the law, which is why I am almost certain Chauvin will be convicted of the manslaughter charge.
aliciabella,How effective do you think the defense has been? CNN is making is sound like a slam dunk for the prosecution but I'm interested in your professional opinion
Post by Poeticxpassion on Apr 15, 2021 13:54:34 GMT -5
My understanding is the defense said that carbon monoxide poisoning contributed to his death. This is something one of their witnesses said. However, the defense had information in a report that George's co2 levels were not as high as the defense is saying. However, prosecution didn't specially discuss that test result within the lab report when Dr. Tobin was on the stand. The defense wanted to call him as a rebuttal witness to discuss this finding from the lab report. However, the judge said he would declare a mistrial if Dr. Tobin made any mention of it.
Post by thedutchgirl on Apr 15, 2021 13:58:19 GMT -5
The results were excluded here (and the entire discussion occurred when they jury was not in the courtroom) because the prosecution had them before but hadn't turned them over. Judge Cahill sort of got cranky with the prosecution and told Blackwell they'd behaved badly. He did specifically say if the expert (called in rebuttal) mentioned it at all, he was going to declare a mistrial.
This jury is not current sequestered, so they go home each night and live normally. Each day the judge tells them to not watch the news or talk about the trial before he releases them for the day. The jury will be sequestered during deliberations, which is why closing arguments are set for Monday. The judge didn't want to keep the jury sequestered over the weekend unless necessary at the end of next week.
aliciabella,How effective do you think the defense has been? CNN is making is sound like a slam dunk for the prosecution but I'm interested in your professional opinion
I think they have been effective in proving that this is not 1st or 2nd degree murder ( I believe he is charged with 2nd) but I think even if there was no defense 2nd degree would be hard to prove.
It is clear the defense is not saying he is not guilty. They are just saying he is NG of 2nd degree and are arguing for the lesser manslaughter charge which is exactly what I would do. He is also setting up mitigation for the sentencing phase which is typically decided by the trial judge.
The results were excluded here (and the entire discussion occurred when they jury was not in the courtroom) because the prosecution had them before but hadn't turned them over. Judge Cahill sort of got cranky with the prosecution and told Blackwell they'd behaved badly. He did specifically say if the expert (called in rebuttal) mentioned it at all, he was going to declare a mistrial.
This jury is not current sequestered, so they go home each night and live normally. Each day the judge tells them to not watch the news or talk about the trial before he releases them for the day. The jury will be sequestered during deliberations, which is why closing arguments are set for Monday. The judge didn't want to keep the jury sequestered over the weekend unless necessary at the end of next week.
Ok, thanks for the clarification as I haven't watched most of it but question, if the results were excluded but brought up by the defense why is he pissy with the DA? If the defense has the results then clearly the DA has them? I definitely missed something.
The results were excluded here (and the entire discussion occurred when they jury was not in the courtroom) because the prosecution had them before but hadn't turned them over. Judge Cahill sort of got cranky with the prosecution and told Blackwell they'd behaved badly. He did specifically say if the expert (called in rebuttal) mentioned it at all, he was going to declare a mistrial.
This jury is not current sequestered, so they go home each night and live normally. Each day the judge tells them to not watch the news or talk about the trial before he releases them for the day. The jury will be sequestered during deliberations, which is why closing arguments are set for Monday. The judge didn't want to keep the jury sequestered over the weekend unless necessary at the end of next week.
Ok, thanks for the clarification as I haven't watched most of it but question, if the results were excluded but brought up by the defense why is he pissy with the DA? If the defense has the results then clearly the DA has them? I definitely missed something.
After Fowler (defense expert) testified about carbon monoxide, the prosecution "discovered" that the ME had done blood gas testing on Floyd. The state didn't get them in response to its initial subpoena. The ME went back after hearing Fowler's testimony and found them and affirmatively called the state.
So the tests existed, but neither the state nor the defense saw them before today. The Court excluded them, got pissed at the state for just bringing the results forward now even though the results existed, and admonished regarding the mistrial.
Fowler had not seen the results either, and he was headed home or home already and couldn't be recalled to testify after looking at the results.
My understanding is the defense said that carbon monoxide poisoning contributed to his death. This is something one of their witnesses said. However, the defense had information in a report that George's co2 levels were not as high as the defense is saying. However, prosecution didn't specially discuss that test result within the lab report when Dr. Tobin was on the stand. The defense wanted to call him as a rebuttal witness to discuss this finding from the lab report. However, the judge said he would declare a mistrial if Dr. Tobin made any mention of it.
Nevermind, ignore my posts above. The DA messed up by not realizing the error in the testimony. Now he is trying to say he never got the report to cover his ass for the mess up.
Is this right? So the CO stuff was excluded during pre-trial. The defense's witness brought it up which I assume the DA objected to. The judge agreed and told the jury to ignore that testimony. The DA now wants to call a rebuttal witness to testify to his objection and about the information that the judge excluded? Okay. That makes sense now. Stupid move on the DA.
Ok, thanks for the clarification as I haven't watched most of it but question, if the results were excluded but brought up by the defense why is he pissy with the DA? If the defense has the results then clearly the DA has them? I definitely missed something.
After Fowler (defense expert) testified about carbon monoxide, the prosecution "discovered" that the ME had done blood gas testing on Floyd. The state didn't get them in response to its initial subpoena. The ME went back after hearing Fowler's testimony and found them and affirmatively called the state.
So the tests existed, but neither the state nor the defense saw them before today. The Court excluded them, got pissed at the state for just bringing the results forward now even though the results existed, and admonished regarding the mistrial.
Fowler had not seen the results either, and he was headed home or home already and couldn't be recalled to testify after looking at the results.
I have read and been present in dozens of autopsies and the CO levels are always tested and part of the report. What an odd and stupid move for the DA- corrected- so basically the DA forgot to object to it and was backpedaling to cover his ass for not objecting and realizing the testimony was inaccurate. No wonder why the judge is pissed and I actually agree with him.
My understanding is the defense said that carbon monoxide poisoning contributed to his death. This is something one of their witnesses said. However, the defense had information in a report that George's co2 levels were not as high as the defense is saying. However, prosecution didn't specially discuss that test result within the lab report when Dr. Tobin was on the stand. The defense wanted to call him as a rebuttal witness to discuss this finding from the lab report. However, the judge said he would declare a mistrial if Dr. Tobin made any mention of it.
Is this right? So the CO stuff was excluded during pre-trial. The defense's witness brought it up which I assume the DA objected to. The judge agreed and told the jury to ignore that testimony. The DA now wants to call a rebuttal witness to testify to his objection and about the information that the judge excluded? Okay. That makes sense now. Stupid move on the DA.
Yeah, the test results were previously unknown but were unknown to the parties, so CO wasn't excluded as a topic and Fowler was allowed to testify to his theory. Then when the results magically appeared overnight showing a normal level, the state wanted to put them in and the judge said nope.
After Fowler (defense expert) testified about carbon monoxide, the prosecution "discovered" that the ME had done blood gas testing on Floyd. The state didn't get them in response to its initial subpoena. The ME went back after hearing Fowler's testimony and found them and affirmatively called the state.
So the tests existed, but neither the state nor the defense saw them before today. The Court excluded them, got pissed at the state for just bringing the results forward now even though the results existed, and admonished regarding the mistrial.
Fowler had not seen the results either, and he was headed home or home already and couldn't be recalled to testify after looking at the results.
I have read and been present in dozens of autopsies and the CO levels are always tested and part of the report. What an odd and stupid move for the DA. Thank you for the clarification!
Totally agree! It was sloppy and then they claimed it was "newly discovered." I think that is what annoyed the judge the most. It wasn't new--they just hadn't gotten it or turned it over.
I have read and been present in dozens of autopsies and the CO levels are always tested and part of the report. What an odd and stupid move for the DA. Thank you for the clarification!
Totally agree! It was sloppy and then they claimed it was "newly discovered." I think that is what annoyed the judge the most. It wasn't new--they just hadn't gotten it or turned it over.
The DA had it, he clearly either forgot or didn't recognize it would be brought up. We all know the CO levels are always clearly marked in the autopsy report. Silly move.