I'm about as pro-vax as they come, but if I have to get a covid shot every year and I react to it like I did my second shot... I don't know if I'd get it.
I had a similar conversation with a friend today. I’m in a job that requires lots of personal interaction, so I think I’d ultimately get it, but I would dread it for sure. And I worry that overall compliance is going to drop dramatically.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
MS was one of the first states to make all adults eligible, so it could be a harbinger for what’s to come in other states (eventually all states, but some sooner than others). Better access in the rural Black population should help, but there is still a lot of reluctance among people who do have access. My sister is still among the very few at her workplace in MS that has been vaccinated - no one else wants it.
Post by Velar Fricative on Apr 9, 2021 6:45:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I’m going to remain hopeful that they work out the issues with severe side effects. And if what we need are boosters, maybe that will reduce side effects in the future too?
This is local: they are pausing J&J at our high thoroughput center due to dizziness in a percentage of patients (0.78%).
They are giving a lot of J&J to college students here and apparently dizziness is a somewhat common reaction to any injection by adolescents. Also, it's been warm and air quality is poor (pollenpocolypse time of year when the sky is tinged yellow), so I'm wondering if it's more due to circumstances than the actual vaccine.
So many of my coworkers and friends dragging their feet on getting the vaccine. Come on! Let's get this done so we can all move on with our lives! Grr.
I'm sure these people have already gotten on with their lives.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
Same, I also read this. Over time the boosters are less and less harsh. H is getting his second shot today and I'm due for my second next Wednesday. What is super interesting to me is how some people don't have any side effects and others are "I haven't felt this sick in years!" Crazy.
I'm also super curious about how I'll feel because hand on heart, I don't think I've had a real fever as an adult. I honestly can't remember having one. So I can't even call to mind what that feels like, body aches, chills, etc.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
Same, I also read this. Over time the boosters are less and less harsh. H is getting his second shot today and I'm due for my second next Wednesday. What is super interesting to me is how some people don't have any side effects and others are "I haven't felt this sick in years!" Crazy.
I'm also super curious about how I'll feel because hand on heart, I don't think I've had a real fever as an adult. I honestly can't remember having one. So I can't even call to mind what that feels like, body aches, chills, etc.
Ditto. I remember feeling somewhat crappy about 10ish years ago for a day or so but I'm not sure if even then I had a fever. I wasn't bed ridden just felt kind of under the weather. So I'm interested/nervous to see how I'll feel after the second shot (only had a sore arm after the first).
This is local: they are pausing J&J at our high thoroughput center due to dizziness in a percentage of patients (0.78%).
They are giving a lot of J&J to college students here and apparently dizziness is a somewhat common reaction to any injection by adolescents. Also, it's been warm and air quality is poor (pollenpocolypse time of year when the sky is tinged yellow), so I'm wondering if it's more due to circumstances than the actual vaccine.
I regularly faint from shots (have my entire life) so when I read about this, it did not seem odd to me at all.
This is local: they are pausing J&J at our high thoroughput center due to dizziness in a percentage of patients (0.78%).
They are giving a lot of J&J to college students here and apparently dizziness is a somewhat common reaction to any injection by adolescents. Also, it's been warm and air quality is poor (pollenpocolypse time of year when the sky is tinged yellow), so I'm wondering if it's more due to circumstances than the actual vaccine.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
I keep staring at the bold - that the vaccine was rushed, hence harsh side effects. Except we're also hearing that the vaccine was not rushed. So which is it?
Finally, #NotAScientist, but this is a vaccine for a pretty brutal virus, so I can't say that I am surprised that the side effects are rough nor do I understand how you can engineer a vaccine to reduce side effects.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
I keep staring at the bold - that the vaccine was rushed, hence harsh side effects. Except we're also hearing that the vaccine was not rushed. So which is it?
Finally, #NotAScientist, but this is a vaccine for a pretty brutal virus, so I can't say that I am surprised that the side effects are rough nor do I understand how you can engineer a vaccine to reduce side effects.
I don't think it's that it was rushed, but that it's in response to a novel virus so fine tuning hasn't had a chance to happen yet.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
I keep staring at the bold - that the vaccine was rushed, hence harsh side effects. Except we're also hearing that the vaccine was not rushed. So which is it?
I understand that as it wasn't rushed with respect to testing safety. It may have been rushed with respect to not being able to play around with dosage amounts to still maintain maximum efficacy while reducing side effects. But the powers that be obviously need to be very careful with the messaging on this.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
I keep staring at the bold - that the vaccine was rushed, hence harsh side effects. Except we're also hearing that the vaccine was not rushed. So which is it?
Finally, #NotAScientist, but this is a vaccine for a pretty brutal virus, so I can't say that I am surprised that the side effects are rough nor do I understand how you can engineer a vaccine to reduce side effects.
So the vaccine was "rushed" in that everyone knows that this is a pandemic that is killing a lot of people. So no scientists didn't have "time" to wait years to look at different doses and boosters and side effect profiles etc. That does not mean that any safety steps were missed.
If this were just a "normal" vaccine that was for something that isn't an imminent danger I'm going to guess that scientists would continue to work on the vaccine dosages to minimize side effects over the next couple of years before asking for authorization.
One of the reasons that pharmaceutical companies don't bring medications to market is due to side effects. Even if they aren't dangerous side effects they know that people won't take/buy the medication if it has horrible side effects so they either start over or change the dosage, that's a part of the process.
So as far as we know the side effects certainly aren't dangerous, but they could absolutely make people not want to get vaccinated again, so right now scientists are indeed looking at different dosages and booster options to keep the vaccine effective and track side effect profiles. I know moderna specifically is testing at different doses now and at different "boosters" as well, so yes looking at side effects is important, but that doesn't mean safety steps were skipped which is what many people assume when they're talking about rushed. But yes it was "rushed" because we're in a pandemic and wanted to get the safe and effective vaccine out as quick as possible even if it had some undesirable side effects.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
Same, I also read this. Over time the boosters are less and less harsh. H is getting his second shot today and I'm due for my second next Wednesday. What is super interesting to me is how some people don't have any side effects and others are "I haven't felt this sick in years!" Crazy.
I'm also super curious about how I'll feel because hand on heart, I don't think I've had a real fever as an adult. I honestly can't remember having one. So I can't even call to mind what that feels like, body aches, chills, etc.
I had a fever of 104 for like 5 days straight when I got the flu a few years ago (the one and only time I will ever forget to get my flu shot) and I literally remember thinking “this is how it ends”. Lol. It was awful. My fever got just as high with my second shot, but it didn’t feel the same at all- I could tell I was hot, but it didn’t hurt the way the other fever did. I could have gone about my normal life. It didn’t even wake me up- my H woke me up because I was so hot it woke him up! Haha
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
I keep staring at the bold - that the vaccine was rushed, hence harsh side effects. Except we're also hearing that the vaccine was not rushed. So which is it?
Finally, #NotAScientist, but this is a vaccine for a pretty brutal virus, so I can't say that I am surprised that the side effects are rough nor do I understand how you can engineer a vaccine to reduce side effects.
It was rushed in the sense that we got it quickly.
I don't know if you are trying to catch me in semantics, but I am certainly not implying that proper protocol was not followed. But yeah we got a new vaccine in a year. That is a fast turn around. It is remarkable. I gladly felt those side effects for 24 hours for the protection.
I was talking to a co-worker yesterday who is getting her first shot today. She told me she was skeptical about getting it this whole time since it was "rushed" and "new technology" but what changed her mind (I am paraphrasing her words here) was a friend who does CT scans and told her about all the long term effects she sees in young, presumably healthy Covid patients, even when they don't have drastic outward symptoms.
I am so glad she changed her mind and also convinced her husband to do the same.
With other vaccines, scientists run multiple trials where they lower the dose to find the balance between efficacy and side effects. That's to make vaccines more comfortable for users. This time, the urgency of the pandemic means scientists prioritized a working vaccine over one with fewer side effects. Which makes sense--imagine if thousands were dying every day while scientists ran trials to limit side effects.
I'm sure future trials will test with lower doses and we'll see fewer side effects.
I'm going to clarify my statement a bit in that I'll probably change my mind after the experience isn't so fresh in my head. The fever and everything was bad but manageable. I had dry heaves, though, that left me with something pulled in my chest and at several points thought I was going to black out. (Yes, I'll report the symptoms in the vaccine reaction website.) So, again, I probably just need some distance so the memories fade a bit.
I, 100%, encourage everyone to get vaccinated. I just think that if I reacted this way to the vaccine, how badly would I have reacted to actually getting covid?
MH got his second dose yesterday and is still asleep. He and his counterpart at his very physical job both got it on the same day, which was poor planning on the part of their manager who scheduled the appointments. Hopefully the other guy made it in today!
Post by fortnightlily on Apr 9, 2021 9:47:28 GMT -5
Curious what folks think of this opinion piece. It remains so weird to me that different parts of the country have such drastic differences in realities right now. I'm in the DC area, where there are very much still mask mandates, limits on indoor capacities at restaurants and other businesses, etc. But then I see photos of folks in Florida and it's like there isn't even a pandemic going on. But I'm getting my first shot next week and I'd really like to think it's a starting point for returning to some greater sense of normalcy. I don't need to eat in a restaurant, but I would like to see my family and friends indoors and without masks.
"When to Reopen Let’s stop pretending that pandemic rules that made sense in April 2020 still make sense a year later."
I keep staring at the bold - that the vaccine was rushed, hence harsh side effects. Except we're also hearing that the vaccine was not rushed. So which is it?
Finally, #NotAScientist, but this is a vaccine for a pretty brutal virus, so I can't say that I am surprised that the side effects are rough nor do I understand how you can engineer a vaccine to reduce side effects.
It was rushed in the sense that we got it quickly.
I don't know if you are trying to catch me in semantics, but I am certainly not implying that proper protocol was not followed. But yeah we got a new vaccine in a year. That is a fast turn around. It is remarkable. I gladly felt those side effects for 24 hours for the protection.
No, I am not trying to question your post/words - it is more that I am concerned about how we (in general) approach this. I agree with Velar Fricative who stated that we need to be careful with messaging around this because people can and will take what they want and run with it.
I keep staring at the bold - that the vaccine was rushed, hence harsh side effects. Except we're also hearing that the vaccine was not rushed. So which is it?
Finally, #NotAScientist, but this is a vaccine for a pretty brutal virus, so I can't say that I am surprised that the side effects are rough nor do I understand how you can engineer a vaccine to reduce side effects.
It was rushed in the sense that we got it quickly.
I don't know if you are trying to catch me in semantics, but I am certainly not implying that proper protocol was not followed. But yeah we got a new vaccine in a year. That is a fast turn around. It is remarkable. I gladly felt those side effects for 24 hours for the protection.
I wish people wouldn't say the vaccine wasn't rushed. Of course it was rushed! We're in the middle of a crisis, rushing was and remains 100% appropriate! It isn't even "approved" yet in the normal sense. None of that means it isn't worth the still pretty low risk and relatively mild side effects. But to say it wasn't rushed? It's a flat out lie and I think we lose credibility if we repeat it. I think we lose credibility just by it being out there.
I agree we need to be careful with words, but we are also posting on a board of very pro-vaccine people. What I say here is much different then what I would say in public with people. By casually saying the word rush in a post, I am not implying that anything but the utmost of care was taken in developing this vaccine. I know this. I assume you all know this. I would never dream of speaking casually about it if I was talking to my vaccine hesitant relative.
With other vaccines, scientists run multiple trials where they lower the dose to find the balance between efficacy and side effects. That's to make vaccines more comfortable for users. This time, the urgency of the pandemic means scientists prioritized a working vaccine over one with fewer side effects. Which makes sense--imagine if thousands were dying every day while scientists ran trials to limit side effects.
I'm sure future trials will test with lower doses and we'll see fewer side effects.
They did actually test 10, 20, and 30 microgram doses, and the side effects were similar between 20 and 30. (And the side effects were similar to those observed with other adult vaccines.) Since 30 was a better immunogen in the 55-85yo age group, they proceeded with 30ug for the phase 2/3 study.
I read somewhere, but to lazy to go back and find the source, that rushing the vaccine out is why the side effects are so harsh. With more time scientists are able to find the right balance between effectiveness and side effects. It is why other vaccines don’t make us as sick.
So I am hopeful with time it would be less harsh. I also was laid up and haven’t felt that sick in a very long time.
Also a funny- I approve time off requests for our adult students. A big batch of them got J & J this week. Reading their ultra dramatic reasons for needing time off due side effects provided me plenty of entertainment. I know they were both sick and playing it up amused me. One gifted me his cat as the request was now his living will. 😂😂
Same, I also read this. Over time the boosters are less and less harsh. H is getting his second shot today and I'm due for my second next Wednesday. What is super interesting to me is how some people don't have any side effects and others are "I haven't felt this sick in years!" Crazy.
I'm also super curious about how I'll feel because hand on heart, I don't think I've had a real fever as an adult. I honestly can't remember having one. So I can't even call to mind what that feels like, body aches, chills, etc.
Well, in fairness, that was also what was so crazy about Covid itself. 🙂 Like up to 40% of people walking around with no symptoms whatsoever and others dying or dealing with months-long issues. Such a strange virus.
With other vaccines, scientists run multiple trials where they lower the dose to find the balance between efficacy and side effects. That's to make vaccines more comfortable for users. This time, the urgency of the pandemic means scientists prioritized a working vaccine over one with fewer side effects. Which makes sense--imagine if thousands were dying every day while scientists ran trials to limit side effects.
I'm sure future trials will test with lower doses and we'll see fewer side effects.
They did actually test 10, 20, and 30 microgram does, and the side effects were similar between 20 and 30. (And the side effects were similar to those observed with other adult vaccines.) Since 30 was a better immunogen in the 55-85yo age group, they proceeded with 30ug for the phase 2/3 study.
Thank you for offering some actual facts behind my general remembrances! I wonder if they'll eventually do a lower dose for under 55. Don't older adults get a stronger flu shot, too?