My kids need activities too after such a rough year, but OTOH, this is scary. I feel like after we have more adults vaccinated, we need to focus testing infrastructure on schools, youth sports, etc. I mean, it's great to do that now, but in case testing is more limited in some areas, that's where resources might need to be poured in. It would catch asymptomatic cases too, which we know occur more in kids.
I saw this yesterday, and was a bit frustrated because I don’t think the articles I’ve see talk enough about a few things. First, most of these clusters are linked to indoor sports and they don’t talk about what safety protocols were in place. Or that some were linked to travel sports and team dinners and pool parties at the hotel. Second, they don’t talk about how the sports can be done safely and that there is much lower risk with outdoor sports in masks. Youth sports aren’t going to stop. And there are ways to keep the risk lower. That should be a main talking point - put it front and center.
It’s Spring Break here and the local high school leagues have actually helped slow travel by having mandatory practices and games over Spring Break. A lot of the big sports families I know are the same families who would have travelled and not abided by quarantine rules going back to school next week. I’m glad they were “forced” to stay home because of their kids’ sports.
All the big youth outbreaks I’m aware of started from indoor sports. Cheer and soccer were the big ones for the 12 and under group. For high school it was volleyball, football, and basketball.
Swim, while indoors, hasn’t been plagued by the same problems.
This is why we’ve stuck to outdoor stuff (mostly tennis). I’m hoping that this summer we can try volleyball but I’m unwilling to try that until school is out.
I’ve been OK with masked indoor sports with the previous strains, but the new British strain seems like it could be a major problem if it is infecting students while they are wearing masks. I think we have 1-2 weeks left of poms and then we won’t be doing any indoor sports after that. More testing is probably always a good idea. We don’t participate in any sports related gatherings.
Thanks for that article. It's timely for a work discussion.
My kids have had their first vaccine dose. A month from today they will be fully vaccinated. My daughter has been battling depression/anxiety/covid wall and last night she said she could finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. I feel really lucky.
I’ve been OK with masked indoor sports with the previous strains, but the new British strain seems like it could be a major problem if it is infecting students while they are wearing masks. I think we have 1-2 weeks left of poms and then we won’t be doing any indoor sports after that. More testing is probably always a good idea. We don’t participate in any sports related gatherings.
Are they though? It seems like in many cases, the players aren't wearing masks while they're actively playing. But, risk may also depend on the sport. I feel like if people are moving around a lot (like in basketball where you're going back and forth), you're not next to someone for very long at any given time and maybe transmission isn't happening as much in a highly mobile sport like that. A sport like wrestling though...that seems really risky to me. I could see volleyball being a bigger problem too. Hockey's risk lies more with the colder temperatures in the rink despite player mobility during the game.
I’ve been OK with masked indoor sports with the previous strains, but the new British strain seems like it could be a major problem if it is infecting students while they are wearing masks. I think we have 1-2 weeks left of poms and then we won’t be doing any indoor sports after that. More testing is probably always a good idea. We don’t participate in any sports related gatherings.
Are they though? It seems like in many cases, the players aren't wearing masks while they're actively playing. But, risk may also depend on the sport. I feel like if people are moving around a lot (like in basketball where you're going back and forth), you're not next to someone for very long at any given time and maybe transmission isn't happening as much in a highly mobile sport like that. A sport like wrestling though...that seems really risky to me. I could see volleyball being a bigger problem too. Hockey's risk lies more with the colder temperatures in the rink despite player mobility during the game.
It's really hard to wear a mask appropriately during exertion like many sports. I looked at pictures from a soccer game and after the first few minutes, all of those masks were low. And think about how you breathe during exertion - forceful exhalation, grunts, yelling - all of those things often right next to someone else's poorly masked - or unmasked - face.
I agree it depends on the sport as well. Most of our sport outbreaks in our state have been without masks.
Distanced masked sports have done better. Our state has a whole matrix of risk.
For example most people I know go to dance and wear masks the whole time. The dance studios that don’t require students to wear masks have had outbreaks.
I don’t know in the above article who was wearing masks or not, except the referee that was triple masked.
I read an article a while back about how ice hockey poses a unique risk when it comes to covid. Scientist seem to think ice rinks trap the virus around head level in a rink that restricts airflow. That being said, both my kids ice skate indoors. They do not do hockey and luckily the rink has been pretty sparse whenever they go (their lessons have about 10 people on the ice) and is a huge professional size rink so spacing is easy. I make them wear KN95 masks and we use mask tape to avoid slipping but it all makes me nervous.
DS1 also does gymnastics, but half the studio is open to the air and there are huge fans. So hopefully it is okay?
The kids play baseball, which has had an outbreak already, although not anyone they came into contact with. But it seems relatively save as far as outdoor sports go since they are typically far apart.
I don't know. My kids need something. They still aren't in full time school and for DS1 in person school is basically online school just at school. I just feel like I am weighing the risk in every thing we do and I don't feel like I have enough information to make real assessments.
I read an article a while back about how ice hockey poses a unique risk when it comes to covid. Scientist seem to think ice rinks trap the virus around head level in a rink that restricts airflow. That being said, both my kids ice skate indoors. They do not do hockey and luckily the rink has been pretty sparse whenever they go (their lessons have about 10 people on the ice) and is a huge professional size rink so spacing is easy. I make them wear KN95 masks and we use mask tape to avoid slipping but it all makes me nervous.
Yeah, I was reading that too. DD1 plays ice hockey. But, she also had covid a couple of months ago, and hadn't played at least 6 weeks or so prior to her positive result because the league shut down for a while (because of state rules, not because of an outbreak), so that wasn't the source of transmission. She resumed playing when all cleared to return and I admit I felt more comfortable with it knowing she was recently infected. But, I probably would have allowed her to play even without being infected because I was pretty happy with their protocols (Only one caregiver could be there with the child and they couldn't even stay in the arena to watch most of the time). She's also only 7 - I expect it to be harder to keep people apart socially when kids are older and the parents and kids are friendlier with each other. Which is why I wish we could know whether outbreaks are linked to the actual playing of the sport or if they're linked to social gatherings connected to the sport.
The referee who died despite triple-masking and wearing a face shield - it's scary as fuck if he kept that PPE on the entire time and still contracted it, but perhaps there was a brief period where he was unmasked and that was all it took given the more contagious variant, especially with the colder rink conditions. Which is also scary as fuck.
Are they though? It seems like in many cases, the players aren't wearing masks while they're actively playing. But, risk may also depend on the sport. I feel like if people are moving around a lot (like in basketball where you're going back and forth), you're not next to someone for very long at any given time and maybe transmission isn't happening as much in a highly mobile sport like that. A sport like wrestling though...that seems really risky to me. I could see volleyball being a bigger problem too. Hockey's risk lies more with the colder temperatures in the rink despite player mobility during the game.
It's really hard to wear a mask appropriately during exertion like many sports. I looked at pictures from a soccer game and after the first few minutes, all of those masks were low. And think about how you breathe during exertion - forceful exhalation, grunts, yelling - all of those things often right next to someone else's poorly masked - or unmasked - face.
Oh I agree. It's why I'm not ready to rejoin gym classes despite it being possible in my state now - you have to be masked the entire time and there's no way I'd feel comfortable doing that, and the masks would be rendered ineffective by dripping sweat anyway. If youth sports insist on continuing, regular testing needs to happen with everyone there - and I think it needs to be more often than once a week.
I saw this yesterday, and was a bit frustrated because I don’t think the articles I’ve see talk enough about a few things. First, most of these clusters are linked to indoor sports and they don’t talk about what safety protocols were in place. Or that some were linked to travel sports and team dinners and pool parties at the hotel. Second, they don’t talk about how the sports can be done safely and that there is much lower risk with outdoor sports in masks. Youth sports aren’t going to stop. And there are ways to keep the risk lower. That should be a main talking point - put it front and center.
the WaPo article does indeed address some of these things. Furthermore, the CDC and leading epidemiologist in whatever state agree that sports are a huge cause of outbreak, so I’m going with their position to limit the sportsball. The only reason they’re not going to stop is because Americans have more rights than they have good sense.
“some sports such as wrestling, basketball and volleyball involve close indoor contact. They have also wondered whether outbreaks may be triggered by related interactions such as carpooling, sleepovers and team celebrations, when people let their guard down, rather than from the practices and games themselves.”
“The interlinked cases span all levels of K-12 schools, from elementary to high school, and 18 hockey, four basketball, three lacrosse and one soccer teams.” (lax and soccer could be indoor or outdoor)
I’ve been OK with masked indoor sports with the previous strains, but the new British strain seems like it could be a major problem if it is infecting students while they are wearing masks. I think we have 1-2 weeks left of poms and then we won’t be doing any indoor sports after that. More testing is probably always a good idea. We don’t participate in any sports related gatherings.
Are they though? It seems like in many cases, the players aren't wearing masks while they're actively playing. But, risk may also depend on the sport. I feel like if people are moving around a lot (like in basketball where you're going back and forth), you're not next to someone for very long at any given time and maybe transmission isn't happening as much in a highly mobile sport like that. A sport like wrestling though...that seems really risky to me. I could see volleyball being a bigger problem too. Hockey's risk lies more with the colder temperatures in the rink despite player mobility during the game.
My nephew's basketball requires masks on the bench but not while playing. I still can't wrap my head around that one.
We allow our DD to visit two of her BFFs, it's sort of a pod. Well, one of her BFF's sisters tested positive and this was 4 days after DD went to their house. They were masked with the exception of eating a snack in the living room. The rest of her family tested negative and so yesterday DD and DH went to get a test. And BFF's family went to test a 2nd time in hopes it was a false positive.
My daughter is a year round swimmer, and their rules are so strict because they are indoors - down to wearing their mask until they literally jump in the pool, restrictions to how many people are in a lane (2 on each side and one stays at the wall and one stays at the flags), etc. They have had no outbreaks at all, but I do think that is because of the masking and I have to believe some of that is because of the chlorine.
All other sports we do are outdoor, and masked (tennis my son masks when doing drills but not when playing games since there is adequate spacing then) and my daughter actually wears her mask while playing soccer, but I would be okay with her taking it off while playing, but she is comfortable wearing it.
Two of her friends had a sleepover about 4 weeks ago, the first either have had in the past year. Turns out one girl was positive and didn't know and they bought ended up with it, along with their siblings and one parent. Ironically three parents didn't get it, luckily the one who did had had one vaccine already and her case was very mild.
I read an article a while back about how ice hockey poses a unique risk when it comes to covid. Scientist seem to think ice rinks trap the virus around head level in a rink that restricts airflow. That being said, both my kids ice skate indoors. They do not do hockey and luckily the rink has been pretty sparse whenever they go (their lessons have about 10 people on the ice) and is a huge professional size rink so spacing is easy. I make them wear KN95 masks and we use mask tape to avoid slipping but it all makes me nervous.
DS1 also does gymnastics, but half the studio is open to the air and there are huge fans. So hopefully it is okay?
The kids play baseball, which has had an outbreak already, although not anyone they came into contact with. But it seems relatively save as far as outdoor sports go since they are typically far apart.
I don't know. My kids need something. They still aren't in full time school and for DS1 in person school is basically online school just at school. I just feel like I am weighing the risk in every thing we do and I don't feel like I have enough information to make real assessments.
I liked how someone explained how to think about it - you have a certain number of risk points to spend and then you should stop spending them. For some folks might see family, do sports, stay in a hotel, do museums, eat indoors, attend church etc. When cases are high and/or climbing you get less points. If your family has health concerns you get less points. If getting sick would be a financial concern you might get less points. If you're vaccinated you get a lot more points. Activities outside are less points than indoor activities.
For us we've opted to only have vaccinated or recovered folks inside our house, in person school and outdoor masked activities like the zoo, backyard visits, hiking. I don't want to use our "points" for indoor actives though they would help with the mental load of covid.
Fundamentally our choices are personal and not and that is the challenge. These decisions were all personal before and how they can impact the health of an entire community.
Post by InBetweenDays on Apr 7, 2021 10:33:14 GMT -5
Our kids only play outdoor sports, but here they require masks 100% of the time. They basically say from the car to the car kids must be wearing masks. It certainly makes playing more difficult (they play soccer and lacrosse) but it's doable.
I would love to see if our area has any data on whether or not there has been "on field" transmission (like not related to carpooling or team dinners, etc.) here. Maybe I'm being naïve letting them play but we've just felt the risk of transmission when outdoors, masked, and running around (so not around one player for long periods of time) is low.
Post by somersault72 on Apr 7, 2021 10:40:51 GMT -5
DS (almost 13) woke up with a stomach virus in the night. I now have to take him to get a doctor's note before he can return to school. Thankful I ditched the HDHP when DH and DD came along.
Oh boy, I'm reading the Washington Post article and it is terrifying for what it is showing about the B117 variant in general.
Yeah this is not what I want to see the week I finally 1) send my kids off for in person hybrid and 2) let the one start two (outdoor, masked) sports. 😬
Our kids only play outdoor sports, but here they require masks 100% of the time. They basically say from the car to the car kids must be wearing masks. It certainly makes playing more difficult (they play soccer and lacrosse) but it's doable.
I would love to see if our area has any data on whether or not there has been "on field" transmission (like not related to carpooling or team dinners, etc.) here. Maybe I'm being naïve letting them play but we've just felt the risk of transmission when outdoors, masked, and running around (so not around one player for long periods of time) is low.
This is how my 7 year old's baseball league is. And the parents/coaches actually do enforce it on the field. The parents on our team are really good about masking in the stands as well, but we are friends with the coach and he picked kids based on what he knew in terms of how well the families are adhering to guidelines (so basically people he knew and the other families he didn't know are like teachers who are vaccinated and used to masking or people who play in other leagues with strict rules, so he knew they'd be used to it).
My older son's sport is golf, and they play at county courses that are very strict. And it's easy to stay distanced on the course. From what I've seen, golf-related transmission is linked to the club house or lockers, neither of which he uses. I don't think they are even open at the county courses right now.
@neworleans, I understand your point, but as I stated in my comment I was referencing the articles I read yesterday, none of which did a good job of talking about indoor v. outdoor or after game activities or how we can make sports safer for now since we all know they aren't going away (i.e. I know our high school basketball and volleyball teams practice outdoors instead of indoors like they normally would and masks are required; that seems considerably less risky than indoor with no mask). I can't read the WaPo one because it says I have read too many articles this month.
Post by somersault72 on Apr 7, 2021 10:51:20 GMT -5
There was a similar discussion recently on ML about this. I had no idea kids were actually playing with the masks. No one in my area is actively participating in the game/race/match etc with the masks on--not 3 year olds, not high school kids. DS ran cross country and is running track. They wore masks until the running officially started during practice (so even during stretching), the masks went back on as soon as running was finished. They wore the masks on the bus to the meets. They wore the masks until right before the race started and put them back on soon after crossing the finish line. Track so far is pretty similar. I felt like my kid was pretty safe during XC and my kid had a ton of COVID anxiety (he still has some). I will be honest and say things didn't start getting bad here until like November, so that probably colors my view.
The sports that seemed to have COVID outbreaks around here were indoor sports and football.
Re: the WaPo article... The K-8 school they reference where the outbreak started is a private school. Here is the local news article about the outbreak:
My kids are starting their outdoor sports soon. Soccer has been the most strict, but so far DD has only had a few indoor practices at a dome, and parents aren't allowed. Masks required 100% of the time. They love sports and its one of the things we're choosing to do (besides school) in regards to the risk/reward decisions.
Our kids only play outdoor sports, but here they require masks 100% of the time. They basically say from the car to the car kids must be wearing masks. It certainly makes playing more difficult (they play soccer and lacrosse) but it's doable.
I would love to see if our area has any data on whether or not there has been "on field" transmission (like not related to carpooling or team dinners, etc.) here. Maybe I'm being naïve letting them play but we've just felt the risk of transmission when outdoors, masked, and running around (so not around one player for long periods of time) is low.
This is how my 7 year old's baseball league is. And the parents/coaches actually do enforce it on the field. The parents on our team are really good about masking in the stands as well, but we are friends with the coach and he picked kids based on what he knew in terms of how well the families are adhering to guidelines (so basically people he knew and the other families he didn't know are like teachers who are vaccinated and used to masking or people who play in other leagues with strict rules, so he knew they'd be used to it).
So far we haven't been able to have spectators on the field for the games (our high school live streams events on youtube). But mask usage here is no joke. We watched DD's soccer game through the fence last Friday. Everyone wore masks, even though spectators were well distanced. People here wear masks when going for neighborhood walks. Many just have them around their necks and pull them up when coming near someone, but I also often see people walking and/or running with them on even when by themselves. So overall I feel pretty comfortable with the outdoor sports setup here.
Around here, kids wear masks while doing sports, and almost everything is outdoors. our health department still find youth sports to be a vector for transmission.
Our kids finally started sports (baseball and track) after doing NOTHING since fall 2019. I am annoyed that some people have had their cake the whole time and their kids have gotten to just operate normally. I am unsurprised that youth sports are risky. My social media is FILLED with people operating as if COVID does not exist when it comes to their kids. Indoor sports without masks, crowds etc.
We made sure the leagues our kids are in are careful, but I have also never thought this was risk-free choice. I certainly hope it stays low risk. I hope masks and being outside are enough.
I will also say the level of joy our kids have felt by getting back to something is heartbreaking. For all of us who have tried to do the right thing, we have had to ask our kids to sacrifice so much.
I am a sports person. My kids would love to be playing sports right now. I think sports are important to kids.
I just don't think people should be playing indoor, contact sports right now. No one should be allowing kids and spectators to be unmasked. It's too dangerous. I can't understand why in the world governments won't just put an end to them. It's one year. It sucks. It sucks less than coaches and referees dying of Covid though.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”