That's the shot I got yesterday, AND I had a blood clot in the past. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little freaked out.
Can you call your doctor? Maybe you can go on blood thinners temporarily just in case?
As a recent blood clot survivor, I understand how you feel and would be freaked out too! Though 6 out of how many millions (ETA: 7 million) IS a very small number so I'm sure you'll be fine, too.
Just an FYI (and I think this is maybe a small part of why they’re pausing, to educate doctors?) blood thinners are actually contraindicated in these reactions. It requires different treatments.
Can you call your doctor? Maybe you can go on blood thinners temporarily just in case?
As a recent blood clot survivor, I understand how you feel and would be freaked out too! Though 6 out of how many millions (ETA: 7 million) IS a very small number so I'm sure you'll be fine, too.
I'm not sure which doctor to call. It happened in 2007 and I don't see any of them anymore.
I had a rare endocrine disorder with the blood clot being an even rarer side effect, so the fact that this rare doesn't comfort me but I appreciate the thought (I don't mean that snarkily at all, I genuinely appreciate it).
Hmm. Do you see a PCP? If so, I might try to call them and explain your concern. I think any doctor should be able to prescribe blood thinners, though I could be wrong! My understanding of current blood thinners is that the one the article mentioned, heparin, is no longer the first or only option (I am on Eliquis, which is supposed to be much easier for people and has caused me no issues whatsoever), so maybe one could be temporarily prescribed.
I have a lot of anxiety around health stuff so I totally get it!
ETA: This is obviously not medical advice, I work in HR lol. But I think it's worth talking to a doctor regardless. They will know more whether prescribing something is a good course of action or not. If it were me, I don't think I'd assume either way without the advice of a medical provider.
Post by Velar Fricative on Apr 13, 2021 8:57:51 GMT -5
I'm so sorry to everyone feeling anxious. The statistics may be heartening, but I know they don't necessarily make the anxiety any better.
J&J and the FDA are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they don't talk about it, they risk the anti-vaxxers yelling about lack of transparency. Or if they talked about it but didn't pause, they'd get similar backlash. But, they're having a field day now with this "failure." All critical thinking has been lost during this pandemic. The system is working. Even if these numbers wouldn't ordinarily cause a pause in using any pharmaceutical, they're right to pause with a new vaccine.
Ugh one in a million is very low but the vaccine is pretty new. Also I believe astra Zeneca became one in 100,000 with the current data. Still low! But birth control pills have been around forever and these vaccines have not.
I’m not saying stop the vaccines and I do think there is a serious risk benefit analysis to be done but also these vaccines are very new, as vaccines go, and they have to take these things quite seriously I would think.
For me I guess it’s the idea these things “can” happen that alarm me. I know that all medicine comes with a risk of some kind and I am getting a Covid vaccine on Sunday (Pfizer) and am happy I have an appointment, I can’t say I like this information either. I’m also in the age range that women have been in for most of the blood clot issues with both vaccines so would I be as happy if my upcoming appt was J&J? probably not I suppose though I’d probably still take the shot since my chance of getting hit by lightning is currently higher as is my chance of getting Covid and having a bad experience with it.
Biden admin released a statement saying that essentially we have more than enough supply from the other two vaccines to hit our 200 mil by 100 days goal. J & J is currently 5% of the supply out there.
But as we have noted, the real kicker is how accessible the one shot is for so many populations.
It’s also curious that the vaccines cause such rare blood clots and Covid causes rare blood clots. I wonder if the same small % of people who would develop a blood clot from Covid are the same ones who would develop one from the vaccine. Like is it something about the spike protein itself? What is it about 1 in 100k young - middle aged women that causes the reaction? I’m sure they are trying to find this out of course but with such a small Sample size (thankfully!) that may be challenging?
I even think the pause could have been more nuanced. They could have temporarily paused it for women ages 18-48 while continuing to allow it for older people (for whom the risk of dying of Covid likely absolutely outweighs this risk).
ETA I understand the FDA is in a hard spot here but the impacts on future vaccine hesitancy and viral spread are also very real.
Is it legal or even logistically possible to do this?
For instance, my community planned a mass vaccination clinic for J&J next week. Would it be legal or even just logistically possible for them to vaccinate men and older women, but turn away women ages 18-48? Even if it were legal and logistically possible, what kind of optics would this produce?
My mother said in Ireland they’ve stopped astra Zeneca for under 60s but are still administering it to older people.
Biden admin released a statement saying that essentially we have more than enough supply from the other two vaccines to hit our 200 mil by 100 days goal. J & J is currently 5% of the supply out there.
But as we have noted, the real kicker is how accessible the one shot is for so many populations.
And like they're doing in Europe, they may decide to resume J&J vaccinations but only offer it to, say, women over 50 and men of all ages (unless they discover more clots in those populations). So while it wouldn't help everyone, it would help many vulnerable people.
I even think the pause could have been more nuanced. They could have temporarily paused it for women ages 18-48 while continuing to allow it for older people (for whom the risk of dying of Covid likely absolutely outweighs this risk).
ETA I understand the FDA is in a hard spot here but the impacts on future vaccine hesitancy and viral spread are also very real.
Is it legal or even logistically possible to do this?
For instance, my community planned a mass vaccination clinic for J&J next week. Would it be legal or even just logistically possible for them to vaccinate men and older women, but turn away women ages 18-48? Even if it were legal and logistically possible, what kind of optics would this produce?
Yes? They didn't allow that age group to get shots until very recently in most places anyway, so yes they can choose who gets shots based on age.
I think it's actually a bigger issue to withhold a potentially life saving medical treatment from people who are not at risk of negative effects. To not allow ANYONE to get this vaccine because a subgroup of people may be at risk is more dangerous to the overall population.
That said, just because it's only been 6 women in that age range so far doesn't mean it CAN'T happen to others, so I think taking a pause for everyone does make sense.
ETA: concerns and fears are valid! I meant I worry that anti vaxxers will not use the stats to critically think about the low likelihood of developing a blod clot. Just more fuel for their rhetotic.
It’s also curious that the vaccines cause such rare blood clots and Covid causes rare blood clots. I wonder if the same small % of people who would develop a blood clot from Covid are the same ones who would develop one from the vaccine. Like is it something about the spike protein itself? What is it about 1 in 100k young - middle aged women that causes the reaction? I’m sure they are trying to find this out of course but with such a small Sample size (thankfully!) that may be challenging?
Let’s not use the word “cause” here quite yet. They’re pausing to investigate what right now is a correlation.
I know they saw the clotting issue with AstraZeneca in Europe. Doesn't covid itself come with a risk of blood clotting? What's different between J&J, A&Z and Pfizer, Moderna that they've only seen this (so far) in first two? Is it that they are different types of vaccines? Totally unrelated?
Yes, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work in a different way from the other two. All four vaccines introduce the genetic blueprint of the virus (unlike a vaccine like the flu shot, which uses dead/attenuated virus) but the first two code the virus on mRNA and the latter two use double-stranded DNA.
And the truth is, we’re learning as we go along here. Part of the reason we were able to authorize these vaccines so quickly is because of the decades of past research — but OTOH, this is the first successful introduction of this technology in the real world. It was HARD to figure out what to do with mRNA technology, for example; it was studied unsuccessfully for cancer for years.
This pause is obviously a big loss for the U.S., but we’re already moving along at a good pace. If the problems prevent a rollout, that would be even more devastating for developing countries because the DNA vaccines only required one shot and didn’t have the arduous storage requirements.
Personally I am soothed by statistics but I still have critical thinking skills.
What? I have critical thinking skills, too. Doesn’t make my concern invalid. Goodness.
FWIW due to many factors BCP’s have never been an option for me due to the blood clot risk. So yeah I’m worried and others are allowed to be, too. The risk is very low but not nonexistent.
It’s also curious that the vaccines cause such rare blood clots and Covid causes rare blood clots. I wonder if the same small % of people who would develop a blood clot from Covid are the same ones who would develop one from the vaccine. Like is it something about the spike protein itself? What is it about 1 in 100k young - middle aged women that causes the reaction? I’m sure they are trying to find this out of course but with such a small Sample size (thankfully!) that may be challenging?
Let’s not use the word “cause” here quite yet. They’re pausing to investigate what right now is a correlation.
Well I am pretty sure for astra Zeneca causation has been established. But you are right, that isn’t the case yet with Johnson and Johnson.
Personally I am soothed by statistics but I still have critical thinking skills.
What? I have critical thinking skills, too. Doesn’t make my concern invalid. Goodness.
FWIW due to many factors BCP’s have never been an option for me due to the blood clot risk. So yeah I’m worried and others are allowed to be, too. The risk is very low but not nonexistent.
And for those without risk factors, the statistics are helpful in not panicking if you use your critical thinking skills to evaluate the risk. The headlines all over places like Fox News are creating a panic and scaring people. I’m sure that it what pugz is speaking to. Not people who are actually using critical thinking skills to decide if J&J is an acceptable to risk or they should avoid it. Just the people who lack the critical thinking skills and instead what to shout loudly and cause a panic.
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Post by Patsy Baloney on Apr 13, 2021 9:58:25 GMT -5
I'm surprised by the statistic that J&J is responsible for only about 5% of the shot supply right now.
The optics on this are terrible, and I imagine if I had received the J&J vaccine, I would probably be having a personal panic as well. I'm certain all will be well for those who have expressed concern, but I know well wishes don't erase anxiety and worry.
I don't have anything novel to add. I do feel very, "THE SKY IS FALLING," about such an accessible immunization being paused, but that's not helpful. Anyone on this board holding onto a billion dollar refrigeration/at-risk-community-2-shot-administration plan should probably go ahead and roll it out now.
I'm not surprised the media is going for more sensational headlines. They've been struggling with viewership/readership since Trump left office and keeping people scared keeps them checking the news.
Sorry that was not my intention and reading that back I am 🤦🏼♀️ the way I said that. I totally understand the fear and concerns and NOT being soothed by stats. What I meant was I see the big picture with the stats and that it is not a reason to write off the vaccine altogether, but I know that people that already don’t trust science or stats will use this as another reason to preach about the dangers of vaccines.
What? I have critical thinking skills, too. Doesn’t make my concern invalid. Goodness.
FWIW due to many factors BCP’s have never been an option for me due to the blood clot risk. So yeah I’m worried and others are allowed to be, too. The risk is very low but not nonexistent.
And for those without risk factors, the statistics are helpful in not panicking if you use your critical thinking skills to evaluate the risk. The headlines all over places like Fox News are creating a panic and scaring people. I’m sure that it what pugz is speaking to. Not people who are actually using critical thinking skills to decide if J&J is an acceptable to risk or they should avoid it. Just the people who lack the critical thinking skills and instead what to shout loudly and cause a panic.
I mean I would still get the J&J shot even knowing this but I still think it was maybe not the best response in a thread where people are sharing very valid concerns. I definitely could have misinterpreted though.
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I have been super concerned for awhile now that vaccination rates in kids is going to be very low. Now I’m pretty sure they will be basically non existent, at least in the south. This is really, really not great.
Sorry that was not my intention and reading that back I am 🤦🏼♀️ the way I said that. I totally understand the fear and concerns and NOT being soothed by stats. What I meant was I see the big picture with the stats and that it is not a reason to write off the vaccine altogether, but I know that people that already don’t trust science or stats will use this as another reason to preach about the dangers of vaccines.
Sorry friends, did not mean to be a bitch. 🤦🏼♀️
Oh for sure!!! The Covid deniers are having a field day right now.
Like I have a family member that thinks the mrna vaccines will delete their DNA....so the 1 in a million stat about J&J will be meaningless to them because they will refuse to think about what that stat actually means vs using it to reinforce their anti science bias.
I am not sleeping well due to allergies so if I make no sense please ignore me 😴
Really good graphic in this article that helps put this in perspective.
I wish they didn’t put this behind a paywall, as someone who had this vaccine last week. Ugh.
Honestly it’s not really new information. And the graphic is just little gray dots showing up for every dose given and the little counter for each one is flying and they say a red dot (blood clot) would show up once every 3 hrs or so. To try and show the scale. And there are a handful of blue dots that show up that represent lives likely saved by the vaccine.
Biden admin released a statement saying that essentially we have more than enough supply from the other two vaccines to hit our 200 mil by 100 days goal. J & J is currently 5% of the supply out there.
But as we have noted, the real kicker is how accessible the one shot is for so many populations.
Yeah, the VAST majority of the shots I see on the vaccine spotter website in my state are for J&J, and I've been watching it pretty closely for a week. Granted, I suppose a lot of the others are already scheduled for second doses, but still, it doesn't seem right. Maybe even a week ago nobody wanted J&J?
I got my first vaccine on Friday! The country got a gift of 75k doses from African Union of Astra Zenneca just over a week ago - with an expiry date of today. So we have had a 5 day intensive vaccination effort - previously, over 60s and healthcare workers only could get. We added teachers and some civil servants on Friday (hence why I got), then over 50s and 40+ with comorbidities were added on Saturday evening and yesterday and today, anyone can get. We have had sites across the island, and it has just been announced that we have no more of that batch to disburse so we got them all in arms before expiration.
I am so proud of my country. We vaccinated 3% of our total population in under 5 days.
However, the sad bits are that we now need to get more vaccines quickly as we dont have many left in the country and there is still a lot of vaccine hesitancy - that is why the groups were upped so quickly.
It’s amazing that we have two almost completely new vaccine mechanisms that seem promising - mRNA from Pfizer and moderna and adenovirus vector vaccines from AstraZeneca and J&J (yes a virus vector vaccine was developed for Ebola but that is not exactly wide usage). One of those new mechanisms - mRNA - has been incredibly successful. And even if they pull both Adenovirus vector vaccines completely because of the risks, they still work incredibly well overall and suggests that mechanism may be useful for future vaccines when tweaked. It really is incredible.
It’s amazing that we have two almost completely new vaccine mechanisms that seem promising - mRNA from Pfizer and moderna and adenovirus vector vaccines from AstraZeneca and J&J (yes a virus vector vaccine was developed for Ebola but that is not exactly wide usage). One of those new mechanisms - mRNA - has been incredibly successful. And even if they pull both Adenovirus vector vaccines completely because of the risks, they still work incredibly well overall and suggests that mechanism may be useful for future vaccines when tweaked. It really is incredible.