Post by basilosaurus on Apr 13, 2021 4:55:34 GMT -5
Did anyone else catch this? If not it's easily found on you tube. It was the deep dive topic of the week. It's well worth the watch but very difficult.
Having worked in such places I could really relate to what interviewed employees were saying. 20pts to a cna and sometimes people sit in their own filth all day. While families are getting charged 8k/mo.
I honestly cried while watching. I was watching with a (not American) friend who asked me why I watch triggering things and why John oliver was cursing up a storm. Well, it's important to get angry sometimes. This friend is someone who's not ignorant about america. He quoted John Lewis at me which was highly ironic considering how he protested and talked about good trouble.
I think one thing that really struck me was about family, mostly women of course, doing things for their elders they're not at all trained to do while not being paid while losing wages due to needing to take care of someone. I am beyond trained for this type of stuff, and I'd be hard pressed to do it for a parent. My gramma, though she had 24/7 care always wanted me to toilet her when I visited. So the cna would stand outside the door if we were all at a restaurant, and I'd be doing the work. Which I gladly did out of love and because lord knows she wiped my ass very many times being a primary caregiver in my youth.
I know we've talked about the dual burden that falls on, again, mostly women to care for elderly parents and young children.
The gist though is there are pending bills to address this crisis. So call your reps!
Post by mrsukyankee on Apr 13, 2021 5:59:12 GMT -5
Yup. We just watched it.
My mom and her 3 sisters, all in their late 60s/early 70s, took care of my grandmother at her home. They took shifts and finally, when she was getting worse, brought in a care worker part-time. My mom, who is a tiny 70+ year old woman, was trying to carry my grandmother (not as tiny) to the bathroom and that sort of work. I finally told her to talk to her sisters about getting at least part-time, if not full-time help, as none of them would let her go into a care home (due to fears of being treated exactly the way J.O. was speaking). There was so much guilt attached to all of this. I'm not looking forward to the day when my mother no longer can take care of herself. I hate to say it, but I'm hoping she passes before it gets to that point, as I don't trust the systems in place and I live overseas so can't take care of her myself.
I watched. Selfishly, it kind of freaked me out about our own future. We don't have kids and we aren't wealthy. I am hoping we'll be ok in old age, but the price of even being in a crappy facility is astounding. I'm worried we won't be able to afford it and will end up in a terrible spot and won't have any family to advocate for us. I honestly was thinking about how when H and I reach a certain age we should find a way to end our lives, which is... not a great thought to be having, lol. It is horrible that people live a long life and end up stuck in a nursing home with poor care to finish out their lives.
John Oliver puts together excellent, informative shows but he stresses me out a lot. Almost every week I end the show depressed about yet another thing I never knew much about but absolutely sucks in the US.
John Oliver puts together excellent, informative shows but he stresses me out a lot. Almost every week I end the show depressed about yet another thing I never knew much about but absolutely sucks in the US.
I have stopped watching because of this. I just can’t do it right now. H still watches and I tell him it is his weekly dose of depression. But, he doesn’t use Twitter or keep up on the news like I do, so he doesn’t feel so inundated with the terrible things in the world.
I saw it and was just about in tears as well. My parents are in their mid-70s. My mom is not aging well and is looking at an assisted living facility. I know she is terrified of aging. My dad is having none of living at this placec and I don't blame him. I really don't want to see them there.
And I selfishly am thinking about myself as I also don't have children. Even if I did, what's to say they could help? I don't know if I can help my parents - we don't live in the same state and I don't know what we'll do when it comes to that. But I'm thinking already of how I can avoid living in a place like that. Eat better, exercise and keep your brain stimulated but past that? I'm kind of scared honestly.
The overbilling and those profiting immensely off of these facilities at the expense of both the residents and the workers makes me so furious and disgusted by humanity.
@@h and I are in the same boat without kids, and I’ve had the same thoughts about it as you, wildrice.
My parents only live about an hour or less away, and my mom is adamant that she will not go to an assisted living facility. Naturally, that means their care will be up to me (my brothers are useless and live far away). @@@@ So I guess instead of saving up for college for the kids we don’t have, we can save up for the cost of my parents care (and then our care eventually).
As a social worker it is all too familiar to me. I’ve been to all kinds of LTCFs and they are all over the place. Having family to advocate is often key but many don’t have that.
LTC insurance is a really good idea esp if it helps with assisted living too.
My mom and her 3 sisters, all in their late 60s/early 70s, took care of my grandmother at her home. They took shifts and finally, when she was getting worse, brought in a care worker part-time. My mom, who is a tiny 70+ year old woman, was trying to carry my grandmother (not as tiny) to the bathroom and that sort of work. I finally told her to talk to her sisters about getting at least part-time, if not full-time help, as none of them would let her go into a care home (due to fears of being treated exactly the way J.O. was speaking). There was so much guilt attached to all of this. I'm not looking forward to the day when my mother no longer can take care of herself. I hate to say it, but I'm hoping she passes before it gets to that point, as I don't trust the systems in place and I live overseas so can't take care of her myself.
Something similar happened in my family...so much guilt as well. My dad, aunt and cousins took care of my great grandmother (and are now doing the same for my grandmother) in her house in shifts, one or more of them was there every day for 2+ years to keep her out of long term care for various reasons, though a main one being how she'd be treated and the next other being financial. My cousins are nurses but still, they have full time jobs and families. They had part time nursing care in the later part (they'd stop in for vitals and to help with medications etc) but 90-95% it was them. The guilt came in because my sibling and I don't live near them, so we didn't help with any of it day to day, which made my dad feel pressure to do more himself to make up for us missing. My sibling and I are not in any medical field and are not inclined towards that, but it still was seen as a family effort that we didn't participate in aside from visiting when we flew in. It's really tough that families need to go through this type of pressure when someone ages.
John Oliver puts together excellent, informative shows but he stresses me out a lot. Almost every week I end the show depressed about yet another thing I never knew much about but absolutely sucks in the US.
I have stopped watching because of this. I just can’t do it right now. H still watches and I tell him it is his weekly dose of depression. But, he doesn’t use Twitter or keep up on the news like I do, so he doesn’t feel so inundated with the terrible things in the world.
Same. I told him to watch a bunch of the recent episodes alone because I am all depressed out, thank you very much. I watched the plastic one because we are trying to be as plastic-free as possible, but it made me stress about not doing enough. So back to not watching.
I have not seen this yet, but I will check it out. I used to work in LTC. My job required going to many different buildings owned by the same parent company. For the most part, I would say it was middle of the road care. There were no horror stories, and each building had a mix of absolutely amazing staff and crap people who were just there to grab a few paychecks before quitting or getting fired. Some of us treated each resident like they were our family, and others just did the bare minimum.
The range of facilities is so wide, and seems very dependent on who is running the facility...both the parent company/owners and the administrator. Excellent facilities DO exist (and they're not just the super expensive ones), but nearly criminal level of care facilities exist, too, unfortunately. Sometimes moving someone to an Assisted Living Facility or a LTC Facility is the very best thing you can do for the physical, mental, and emotional health of the patient AND their family. For those who are in a position where you are worried about parents (that includes me), start researching, listening, and learning now, so you don't have to make a quick decision after an acute health event. Family involvement can also really make a difference in someone's experience at a LTCF. (It absolutely should NOT, but that's the sad truth at the moment.)
I didn't realize there were pending bills on this. I'm going to look into it and contact my reps for sure. There is SO much that needs to change with LTC. Knowing that there are some good facilities that treat our elders with the respect and dignity that they deserve is fine, but they ALL need to do that.
I haven't seen this one show, and I know these places exist.
I also know there are lots of better places too. My grandma was in one and even in SoCal, it wasn't $8k a month. It was wonderful for her.
Part of the point of the show was that it can be hard to find these good places because most of the available data comes directly from the companies and there’s no independent verification.
Also, you can’t just drop that anecdote in here without acknowledging that the median cost of a private room in a nursing home is $100k, and is not typically covered by Medicare. Many middle class families end up spending down their assets so they qualify for Medicaid, erasing decades of savings just so they can get their loved one into a facility.
I’m glad your grandmother found a wonderful home at a reasonable cost, but it’s misleading to say there are “lots of better places” because that’s not what the data shows. One anecdote doesn’t equal “lots.”
I haven't seen this one show, and I know these places exist.
I also know there are lots of better places too. My grandma was in one and even in SoCal, it wasn't $8k a month. It was wonderful for her.
Part of the point of the show was that it can be hard to find these good places because most of the available data comes directly from the companies and there’s no independent verification.
Also, you can’t just drop that anecdote in here without acknowledging that the median cost of a private room in a nursing home is $100k, and is not typically covered by Medicare. Many middle class families end up spending down their assets so they qualify for Medicaid, erasing decades of savings just so they can get their loved one into a facility.
I’m glad your grandmother found a wonderful home at a reasonable cost, but it’s misleading to say there are “lots of better places” because that’s not what the data shows. One anecdote doesn’t equal “lots.”
I watched. Selfishly, it kind of freaked me out about our own future. We don't have kids and we aren't wealthy.
I have kids and it still freaked me out about my own future. I really really don’t want to be that mother daughter pair at the beginning.I have helped care for my father while my mom played that role and I’ve helped her out short term post surgery, but if she needs that level of care it’ll fall to me or a facility. And while John Oliver talked about giving the carers the support they need, I selfishly don’t want to be that primary cater long term. Ugh.
Both my parents worked in elder care, my dad a COO and my mom a social worker, and i volunteered in nursing homes and assisted facilities for years, so i grew up with knowledge of a bit of this. Honestly i try not to think about it. It is enraging how much work there is to be done.
Post by basilosaurus on Apr 13, 2021 12:26:18 GMT -5
When I was doing hospice work I saw so many facilities and they really ranged quite the spectrum. Most were decent, but some were truly horrifying.
We were lucky my grandparents had the funds for personal care. They were in a place where you basically buy a condo and they'll step up care as needed. Both were in their condos still when they died. Well, gramma was in a hospice unit at the hospital her last 4 days but only because the facility called ambulance transport for emergency care, and they decided nothing could or should be done. Same floor my mom died in in 1987 so that was a bit of a mindfuck.
I know my parents have fully covered their care and never want to burden us. That's a huge privilege my family has. We have talked openly about death, medical wishes, ltc, etc, as long as I can remember. My mom was the one that told me she would die soon, and I was only 6. We may be waspy in many ways, but I'm so appreciative for that openness.
I plan on getting high as a kite and oding. There was a great nurse jackie episode about this with a long time nurse who wanted all the morphine in her martini glass while the nurses paid her tribute and toasted her. I do know my mom considered it since we had morphine at home which in the 80s was nearly impossible to acquire. She didn't want my sister and me thinking she died of suicide, though. Seriously I would have understood and spent some guilty teen years that she suffered on our behalf. But her lifetime of parochial school guilt, pre vatican 2, was far stronger.
Oh also, psa, get your medical directives in order! I'm an oregon resident so mine is extremely detailed and about 10 pages long based on that state's template. There's no reason everyone can't have the same.
And talk to your elders. I know my parents' wishes, and they know mine. It's all in legal writing, too. Sorry, "mom" I can't actually kill you if you are in a wheelchair and don't know where you are, but I understand the sentiment.
As a social worker it is all too familiar to me. I’ve been to all kinds of LTCFs and they are all over the place. Having family to advocate is often key but many don’t have that.
LTC insurance is a really good idea esp if it helps with assisted living too.
I was honestly surprised the episode didn't touch at all on LTC insurance.
Obviously, as one of the richest countries in the world, we should probably be able to figure out a way to take care of old people without making them purchase LTC insurance -- but right now, it's one of the best things people ages 60-65 can do for themselves if they can afford it. I understand people in that position are privileged and that it's not a solution for everyone. Just surprised the episode didn't mention it at all.
I had the same thought. I explained to my friend such a thing does exist. I didn't expect him to know, but I think many americans also don't know, and this would have been a good time to mention it
Post by mrsukyankee on Apr 13, 2021 14:29:34 GMT -5
It's not much better in the UK. I have already told my H that when I get old enough, I'm going to start complaining about pain (which will make sense as I've had knee surgery and the like) so I can hoard pills. I also hope that Euthanasia is legal by then. Both my grandmothers lived into their 90s and stayed alive well past a time that they really needed to (according to them - they were ready a few years earlier but their bodies just kept going). I don't want that life.
We're child-free, I'm living overseas from my family and my H has no family here except his mother. Yeah, it's not a pleasant thought.
H works for a firm that designs senior living. Most of the projects are for companies that are high end - you "buy" a condo/townhome/villa/whatever at $1-3mil +, and it covers your care for the rest of your life. He really enjoys his firm, but struggles with the work sometimes.
Watching this segment/us talking about it almost had me in a panic state last night. My parents have prepped the best they can. Mom has LTC insurance (she's 5yrs younger than Dad and at this point has less health issues), and there should be enough to cover Dad if/when he needs that care. But I still worry if it's enough. Also, I live 4 hrs away in another state from my parents. Even before they need assisted care, they will need to be checked up on more often as they get older and stay in the home. My other sister lives half way across the US, so she isn't going to be of much help. The only "real" solution I see is us moving back to within an hour of my parents, or moving them up towards us. And neither of us really want that. Dad just turned 70, and while in good health, I feel like this is a decision that'll need to be made in the next 5-8 years.
wildrice - we are also child-free, and I had similar dark thoughts. I have no idea if my nieces/nephews would step up to check in on us/the care we receive as we get older. It's... not a good place to be.
wildrice we’ve had the same thoughts! We don’t have siblings with kids either so it really is just us at the end of the line. I also don’t think it’s selfish to worry about yourself!
wildrice we’ve had the same thoughts! We don’t have siblings with kids either so it really is just us at the end of the line. I also don’t think it’s selfish to worry about yourself!
Maybe all of us in this thread can move into the same LTC facility and look out for each other I do think about that kind of thing, too. I have several friends who are child-free and one of my sisters is too, so I assume we'll all need to kind of rely on each other someday when we're old and everyone else we know has their kids to help them? Hopefully at least a few of us will stay healthy enough to help the others, lol.
I do have a niece and nephew, but they have their own parents and assuming they marry, will have their spouses parents. They probably aren't going to want to care for their two aunts and uncle too. Not to mention we don't even live in the same geographic area and may never do that.
I haven't seen this one show, and I know these places exist.
I also know there are lots of better places too. My grandma was in one and even in SoCal, it wasn't $8k a month. It was wonderful for her.
Part of the point of the show was that it can be hard to find these good places because most of the available data comes directly from the companies and there’s no independent verification.
Also, you can’t just drop that anecdote in here without acknowledging that the median cost of a private room in a nursing home is $100k, and is not typically covered by Medicare. Many middle class families end up spending down their assets so they qualify for Medicaid, erasing decades of savings just so they can get their loved one into a facility.
I’m glad your grandmother found a wonderful home at a reasonable cost, but it’s misleading to say there are “lots of better places” because that’s not what the data shows. One anecdote doesn’t equal “lots.”
Another issue is that Medicaid will let you keep your home if you can stay in it or if your spouse lives there but when you (or your surviving spouse) die, they will try to recover that money from your estate which often means your heirs then have to sell the house to pay for care given years earlier. It’s a major stumbling block in lower income families to being able to hang on to even the smallest amounts of wealth.
My parents are 72 and 79. My mom has dementia and is bed-ridden for multiple reasons and my dad is stating to have some worrying memory and physical issues (like sometimes he can’t dress himself).
Right now I’m trying to figure out what the heck to do with them. My mom is currently at a skilled nursing facility to the tune of $7,800 a month. Home care is going to run $6,000+
And insurance covers none of it. They don’t have long term care insurance.
Post by lilypad1126 on Apr 13, 2021 15:15:13 GMT -5
Watching my grandparents age in an assisted living facility was pretty eye opening. I had (wrongly) assumed that they would get more care than they did, given what they paid every month. It was a great deal when they were still on the "independent" side of things, but once they needed more care and moved into the "assisted living" side, it was pretty awful. And they were in what I would have considered a good facility. But until we as a society start to better value the kind of work that goes into running the facility and actually helping the residents, it's going to continue to not be good.
@@ H and I are child free, so this is something I've given some thought to. Not that I would expect our kids to take care of us, just that it makes me think about this differently. And, H is older than I am, so it's very likely that H will need help long before me. So by the time i need some sort of facility for myself, it'll either be much easier or much harder b/c I'll be alone. OTOH, right now H is adamantly opposed to ever being in a facility, and I definitely see some pluses to it (assuming I could find a "good" one). I'm also worried about my sister and how she would expect me to help her out (which I won't be able to do for a variety of reasons). It's worrisome.
We will most decidedly *not* be able to afford to take care of any of our parents, who are in varying states of being able to provide for themselves. And we have never thought about what we will do beyond "I don't want to end up not being able to care for myself."
Part of the point of the show was that it can be hard to find these good places because most of the available data comes directly from the companies and there’s no independent verification.
Also, you can’t just drop that anecdote in here without acknowledging that the median cost of a private room in a nursing home is $100k, and is not typically covered by Medicare. Many middle class families end up spending down their assets so they qualify for Medicaid, erasing decades of savings just so they can get their loved one into a facility.
I’m glad your grandmother found a wonderful home at a reasonable cost, but it’s misleading to say there are “lots of better places” because that’s not what the data shows. One anecdote doesn’t equal “lots.”
Another issue is that Medicaid will let you keep your home if you can stay in it or if your spouse lives there but when you (or your surviving spouse) die, they will try to recover that money from your estate which often means your heirs then have to sell the house to pay for care given years earlier. It’s a major stumbling block in lower income families to being able to hang on to even the smallest amounts of wealth.
I talked about my dad's side of the family in an earlier post but this is what happened on my mom's side. My grandparents savings/grandfather's pension first paid for my grandmother's care, then after that couldn't keep up, my parents paid for months, but ultimately after she passed, my mom and aunt had to sell her house to pay the remaining portion of the bill as my parents couldn't keep it up and my aunt wasn't in a position to help. I don't know how medicare played into it exactly, but it sounds like the situation they had as I understand it. They were middle class, and it was super sad to see that what they had worked for (and literally my grandfather and his brother built by hand) was sold to a developer who tore it down as that was who bought the house and land. My mom cannot go by there, she gets (understandably) upset that they had to make that decision.
wildrice we’ve had the same thoughts! We don’t have siblings with kids either so it really is just us at the end of the line. I also don’t think it’s selfish to worry about yourself!
Maybe all of us in this thread can move into the same LTC facility and look out for each other
I truly do think the Golden Girls method is a great way to go! Pool resources to hire an in-home caregiver, maintain some independence, and keep the burden off adult children. I read an article on this once that outlined the logistics really well. I am having trouble finding it, but here is an article on the trend: www.google.com/amp/s/www.simplemost.com/seniors-golden-girls-style-living-is-rise/%3famp
I'm childfree, too, and this is one of the contributing factors to that. After seeing what my mom and others have gone through caring for their elderly parents, I don't want a child to feel obligated to do that for me. My hope is to be able to save to hire in-home care and then a nursing home if/when needed. I have long-term care insurance so we'll see how far that and retirement/investments will get me. Affording elder care is one of my biggest worries.