John oliver ltcf

[Velar Fricative]

I wish he had talked more about how demand for LTC is only going to increase as boomers age, with fewer younger people to take care of them (either family care or even just from the smaller tax base). Coupled with how there is high turnover in the LTC workforce because it pays pennies. I bury my head in the sand when it comes to this stuff.

[Michelle]

My MIL passed in March unexpectedly. Everyone expected FIL to go first. I was prepared to have MIL come live with us. FIL is a different ball game completely.

He keeps trying to give us the basic life insurance money from MIL's former company to buy a generator for our house. I keep telling him to keep all the money in CDs or something (if he isn't comfortable with stocks) so he can pay for long term care in-home if he needs it someday (and he likely will).

He joked that he will just give us all the assets and come die in our house.

I am not wiping his ass. I love the old fart, but I am not, as the woman of the house, going to be the primary income earner, primary parent AND care for my FIL's medical needs as well.

I don't want him having to go to an LTC or LTAC but being cared for by me personally is not going to work. If I have to do that for my mom someday, so be it. But if anyone is scrubbing the old guy's balls, it will be his son, not me! :-)

PS - i just requested quotes for LTC insurance.

[sent]

I have had so many negative interactions with various kinds of insurances this week, I'm feeling very jaded in general. I feel like if LTC insurance was a profitable product to sell, we would see lots of cute ads for it reminding us to buy it. Also I always read the same narrative, these places cost so much, the care can be so poor. Eventually we may get a documentary why this is exposing this industry, or maybe it's already out there. Is there any hope to change it? Our motto has become "profits above everything else" and I have little faith we can change this culture.

[livinitup]

When my grandmother was 70 and in good health my parents bought a new house and built an in-law suite for my grandmother to live. They did many things to accommodate my grandmother’s independence. She had her own entrance/exit and could walk a few blocks to a church (that she attended daily) and a grocery store. It was lovely. Many years later, not unexpected, her health deteriorated but so did her mind. She became belligerent, confused and scarily forgetful. It became dangerous for her own safety to leave the house but they couldn’t lock her in, so that became an ongoing worry. We were relieved and grateful that my grandmother got a place in a wonderful nursing home run by the Catholic dioceses and paid by her Medicare/Medicaid. She lived there safely and well for years. We all visited often and my father volunteered weekly, even now, many years after she passed. Well, this very lovely nursing home has lost so much money in the past year that it’s being sold. My father is devastated. It’s being gobbled-up by a mega-LTC system. We have no hope that it will continue to be run well by its new corporate owners. How can it? How can it make-up for million dollar losses without slashing care and staffing costs? My father is so scared for himself and his aging friends.

[simpsongal]

Unfortunately, I think the common wisdom on LTC insurance is that it used to be a good deal - I gather the insurance industry took a bath on a lot of the policies sold 20 years ago. Now it's become incredibly expensive.

It's pretty tragic that the one "silver lining" of losing my dad early and unexpectedly was the fact that I didn't see him decline and I didn't have to handle any of these issues. I'm sure I will be the one handling this for mom, it's going to be hard. She's also determined to leave my brother and I an inheritance, esp since our other brother owes her at least $200K. She's not rich, and based on her assets I expect she won't have much left b/c of LTC.

[RitzyHeifer]

Apr 15, 2021 7:07:06 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Unfortunately, I think the common wisdom on LTC insurance is that it used to be a good deal - I gather the insurance industry took a bath on a lot of the policies sold 20 years ago. Now it's become incredibly expensive.

It's pretty tragic that the one "silver lining" of losing my dad early and unexpectedly was the fact that I didn't see him decline and I didn't have to handle any of these issues. I'm sure I will be the one handling this for mom, it's going to be hard. She's also determined to leave my brother and I an inheritance, esp since our other brother owes her at least $200K. She's not rich, and based on her assets I expect she won't have much left b/c of LTC.

Yup. I have a dark sense of humor and use humor to deal with stressful situations (which I know isn’t every one's cup of tea) but I have said that my dad’s dropping dead at work one day was a courteous thing for him to do. But honestly, he would have hated every minute of declining the way his own dad did. My mom is still living and reasonably healthy but has made clear she never wants to be in LTC or assisted living. Not, uh, not sure how I’m supposed to manage this when we are 2 states apart and my brother has made clear he’s not handling anything.

[simpsongal]

RitzyHeifer, +1 to have a dark sense of humor, esp w/death. My family has been making so many death jokes these past 7 months. One of the funeral directors was horribly rude - when my mom and I were driving away from our appointment I joked "mom, they just lost your future business!"

My dad felt the same as yours. He was a big, burly guy that worked in the trades - not the type you see in LTC (no one thought he'd make 80). I'm guessing he would have been pleased to hear how his last day went. We just wish it were 5-10 years later (he was only 68).

[eddy]

I have also said the same thing about my mom's sudden cancer diagnosis and then death from PE. She would have HATED being any sort of burden. we joke that my mom dying quickly and when we were all home and together was the most mom thing ever. No caretaking. We were all right there to support each other instantly.

And after my mom's death my dad has since had 3 orthopedic surgeries. That alone has been a huge burden for my sis and I as we had to pause our lives to help him after each surgery. I can't even imagine what it would be like to long term take care of a parent.

@@
I held onto a lot of bitterness around his surgeries and the fact that I have young kids at home. I was way to young to be taking care of both kids and a parent.

[definitelyO]

I haven't watched it (and probably won't) as my father is currently in a LTCF and transitioning to hospice care. We had a horrible experience at one place and moved him - this one "seems" better - but he has exhausted Medicare and is now on private pay to the tune of $8,300/mo. I live across the country so cannot see him frequently - but I do call daily and talk with his nurse or aide for the day - so they know that I'm in contact and someone is "around-ish". His need was due to an accident and I know that he would prefer to be home with private care givers - but he lived alone in a walk up and he cannot walk and has no one around to help in the event 24/7 care wasn't available or didn't show up or something... it's horrible.

[bkseller13]

I will probably watch the John Oliver piece. A few weeks ago, H and I watched a movie on Netflix called "I Care A Lot". It had Rosamund Pike as a predatory woman who got old people without families committed to LTC facilities and then ripped off all their belongings and sold them. Dianne Wiest plays one of her victims and Peter Dinklage plays Dianne's son. It was bleak and dark, with moments of humor, but DAMN.

[womet]

We're dealing with this for my grandmother. She has Alzheimer's and we're doing what we can to keep her at home for as long as possible. She's still fairly independent, so having home health aide's come and help her with house chores and making her meals helps a lot. She's physically in good shape, considering she's 95 and has Alzheimer's.

[mrsukyankee]

I'll be honest that both my H and I were grateful that his father died almost immediately from a heart attack and we're hoping his mother doesn't linger. It's the norm for the daughter-in-law to take care of the mother and I do think she'd HATE being in any sort of home, as she's such an introvert/hates people person (she barely wants to deal with us at times, I think). There is no way I want to wipe her bum or anything like that. So I'm really hoping she goes quickly (it's less likely as she's like my mom who will probably linger on for ages with a variety of ailments).

[mouse]

Apr 15, 2021 12:05:08 GMT -5 bkseller13 said:

I will probably watch the John Oliver piece. A few weeks ago, H and I watched a movie on Netflix called "I Care A Lot". It had Rosamund Pike as a predatory woman who got old people without families committed to LTC facilities and then ripped off all their belongings and sold them. Dianne Wiest plays one of her victims and Peter Dinklage plays Dianne's son. It was bleak and dark, with moments of humor, but DAMN.

That’s about guardianship. The New Yorker has a great article, but if it’s paywalled you can find more by searching for guardianship abuse. It’s terrifying, and mostly legal.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights/amp

[winecat]

Apr 13, 2021 17:52:39 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Apr 13, 2021 14:53:30 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Maybe all of us in this thread can move into the same LTC facility and look out for each other

Wow this would make a great sitcom.

"They spent decades together on the internet, now watch them live together 'IRL'!"  

Golden Girls meets The Truman Show.  

[Bernadine]

My mom has also made it clear that she does not want to be put in a nursing home. It’s scary to think of- she could need care before I’m ready to retire, so I have no idea how that would work.

I’d rather be in a nursing home than burden dss or dd.

[SmartyCat]

I feel some kind of way about parents trying to extract promises from their children for future care. OF COURSE nobody wants to need nursing care. May every one of us - and all of our loved ones - die peacefully at home, in our sleep, holding the hands of our loved ones, after a long day of doing our favorite things in full health.

My mom first started dangling this regularly into conversations about 25 years ago: "well, your cousin promised her parents they would never have to go to a nursing home. . . . . [long pause, where she clearly expected a similar commitment from me]. . ." At the time, I was a broke single parent, working full-time, and in graduate school. Right. Mom and Dad had not been the primary caregivers for their own elderly parents, or even in the same city/state for their old age decline. Which gave them the luxury of being full of opinions about whether the caregivers - their younger siblings - were getting it right, without having had to do any of actual work themselves.

Mom made it past 90 in her own house before her mobility made it unsafe to remain there. I'm forever grateful for her friends, who had mounted a fairly relentless "you need to move!" campaign every time they saw her for months, or I don't think she would have signed the check for the assisted living apartment. I love my mom, and as far as I can make her path to the finish line easier I see that as part of my life's work, but I could write a substantial wall of text about denial, entitlement, refusing to deal with the unwanted bits of life (I'm still salty that she left it to me to fire her creepy yard guy, LOL), and the expectations of daughters vs. sons.

As far as it is in my power, I do not intend to burden my DS with this.

[Jalapeñomel]

I haven’t watched yet, but I think about this a lot.

Living overseas, multigenerational living was the normal, most grandparents didn’t go to homes, they’re taken care of in the house by their children. I often wonder why the US tends to be so different in terms of elderly care.

Note: I’m not making a comment either way on which is better or appropriate etc

[hocus2]

Apr 16, 2021 16:23:34 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

I haven’t watched yet, but I think about this a lot.

Living overseas, multigenerational living was the normal, most grandparents didn’t go to homes, they’re taken care of in the house by their children. I often wonder why the US tends to be so different in terms of elderly care.

Note: I’m not making a comment either way on which is better or appropriate etc

  Are those communities dual income in general or was the model single earner or a single earner+part time earner? Because I think one of the main reasons ill parents cannot live with their adult children is the very high prevalence of dial income and/or single parent homes here. There is also the high cost of housing to consider as well. My house isn't set up to care for a senior with limited mobility. I think many folks in the US do not live in a home they can accommodate a senior in easily. Our neighbors converted space on their first floor to accommodate parent and I think it was 15,000 to 20,000. They had to add a handicap shower on the first floor and a bedroom and possibly a ramp for at least one exit. 

It may also be the case that these communities had benefits that allowed families to care for their seniors at home that are lacking here. Tax benefits, social programs that offer care part time, training programs to care for very ill adults can help adult children care for their parents. I also think that retirement funding maybe a consideration. If you need to start caring for your parent around 65 and have a good retirement package then it can work out for you but if you need to keep working because you have no retirement (as is the case for many Americans) then your ability to care for an ailing parent is going to be more limited.

[Gato]

I recently had this discussion with a male friend who took care of his mom in his home for five years until her death. I have so much respect for my friend for doing what he did but: a. he was single, with a generous income and no wife or kids dividing his time, and b. he owned his own business, so he could set his own hours.

In the U.S., in the majority of households, the adults work full time. I’m just guessing that the women bear the burden of most elder care in other countries, in a way that is impractical in single mom or two working parent households here. And also that these countries have more humane policies about time off than in the U.S.

It is a lot of physically HARD, exhausting work. It’s all day and all night. There are no vacations or days off. And people linger on in the U.S. healthcare system way more than they could have 100 or even 50 years ago. My dad died at home, just the way he wanted to, but I won’t make my daughters go through that with me. I’ll happily go to assisted living.

I think this must be really different state to state. Since Maine accepted the health care expansion, there were actually quite a few really nice places willing to take Medicaid for my MIL’s spot. There’s usually only one or two Medicaid spots available, though, so you have to look far in advance, decide on a few good fits, and then get on the waitlist for those openings. That’s why it’s bad to wait until a parent is permanently incapacitated—then you have to take whatever is available right then, and it may not be at all what they would want.

[basilosaurus]

We really can't compare to other countries where they have actual affordable healthcare. Where the government will pay for skilled nursing, respite care, medical equipment. In the states most people can only access that once they go on hospice.

If I were a resident here, not even a citizen, it would cost 25 cents to go to any government hospital, meds included. Private hospital is about $25. Other than potential lost wages the financial burden is not at all comparable.

And, yes, there may be cultural factors at play as well, being expected to care for parents. Especially if female. But those traditions also don't typically include a female workforce. I know someone who's only 27 and sends a large portion of his paycheck to his mom who also receives a government pension, and she's in her 50s with a husband who still works. Meanwhile my friend lives in a room with a bed and nothing else. I don't imagine many americans willing to do that, let alone the physical and emotional burden of someone with medical needs.

And, yes, caring for someone with limited mobility is fucking hard on your body. Try toileting someone twice your weight. Sure, in a nursing home we have tools like lifts. Even then it's hard work. At home? You have nothing, probably not even a gait belt. And if, fsm forbid, someone were to fall, you're supposed to cushion with your own body. We learn how to do this first thing in nursing school to minimize injury to both parties. What does the average person know? Even with that knowledge and practice a fall terrifies me.

I truly wish everyone could afford what my grandparents had. A 2.5 br condo they could call their own with their own furniture, my grandma's art everywhere. They even got permission to hang her work in the hallways and regularly rotated it. Staff would come by on breaks and residents used it as motivation to leave their rooms and walk around. Everyone deserves that. There's a reason this was the most sought after facility in a tri county area full of old people. I recognized the most florida story of all time in John oliver's piece. Florida is big time nursing home capital.

Here I go rambling again. I'm apparently pretty passionate about this

[Kristinmo]

Apr 16, 2021 17:12:27 GMT -5 Gato said:

In the U.S., in the majority of households, the adults work full time. I’m just guessing that the women bear the burden of most elder care in other countries, in a way that is impractical in single mom or two working parent households here. And also that these countries have more humane policies about time off than in the U.S.
.

The past year has proven that when the needs of the household become too great, women sacrifice their jobs.

www.brookings.edu/essay/why-has-covid-19-been-especially-harmful-for-working-women/

[Jalapeñomel]

Apr 17, 2021 2:31:10 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

We really can't compare to other countries where they have actual affordable healthcare. Where the government will pay for skilled nursing, respite care, medical equipment. In the states most people can only access that once they go on hospice.

And, yes, there may be cultural factors at play as well, being expected to care for parents. Especially if female. But those traditions also don't typically include a female workforce. I know someone who's only 27 and sends a large portion of his paycheck to his mom who also receives a government pension, and she's in her 50s with a husband who still works. Meanwhile my friend lives in a room with a bed and nothing else. I don't imagine many americans willing to do that, let alone the physical and emotional burden of someone with medical needs.

I do think that our lack of access to healthcare does play into it, but I think it is absolutely a cultural expectation that children take care of their elders possibly at the sacrifice of their well being.

[AndyCohen]

Apr 17, 2021 6:26:34 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Apr 17, 2021 2:31:10 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

We really can't compare to other countries where they have actual affordable healthcare. Where the government will pay for skilled nursing, respite care, medical equipment. In the states most people can only access that once they go on hospice.

And, yes, there may be cultural factors at play as well, being expected to care for parents. Especially if female. But those traditions also don't typically include a female workforce. I know someone who's only 27 and sends a large portion of his paycheck to his mom who also receives a government pension, and she's in her 50s with a husband who still works. Meanwhile my friend lives in a room with a bed and nothing else. I don't imagine many americans willing to do that, let alone the physical and emotional burden of someone with medical needs.

I do think that our lack of access to healthcare does play into it, but I think it is absolutely a cultural expectation that children take care of their elders possibly at the sacrifice of their well being.

I’m not sure which cultures you’re speaking to specifically, but do they also tend to have kids younger? Because if it’s typical to get married and have kids in your early 20s, then your kids are likely adults and have kids of their own long before your parent needs care. Also if it’s a culture where people typically live where they grew up it helps since there is a lot of family in the same area. These things get much harder when parents start having kids in their mid-late 40s and it becomes more common for families to be scattered across the country/world.

[basilosaurus]

Apr 17, 2021 6:26:34 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Apr 17, 2021 2:31:10 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

We really can't compare to other countries where they have actual affordable healthcare. Where the government will pay for skilled nursing, respite care, medical equipment. In the states most people can only access that once they go on hospice.

And, yes, there may be cultural factors at play as well, being expected to care for parents. Especially if female. But those traditions also don't typically include a female workforce. I know someone who's only 27 and sends a large portion of his paycheck to his mom who also receives a government pension, and she's in her 50s with a husband who still works. Meanwhile my friend lives in a room with a bed and nothing else. I don't imagine many americans willing to do that, let alone the physical and emotional burden of someone with medical needs.

I do think that our lack of access to healthcare does play into it, but I think it is absolutely a cultural expectation that children take care of their elders possibly at the sacrifice of their well being.

I'm not going to disagree with this. I think we can agree it usually falls on women for care. Men may send paycheck, but women do the heavy lifting, sometimes literally.

I just think it doesn't do us good in usa to compare to other countries since there are so many other factors.

[mrsukyankee]

Among my H's friends, the parent definitely stays at home. And it's not easy to accommodate. They sacrifice time and money for it. The gov't do NOT help out financially for most elderly who want to stay in their own homes or live with their kids. I know next door has a parent basically live in the living room and get sponge baths so he could stay on the ground floor - no conversions - it's just what they did. Another basically never came downstairs and lived in their bedroom. I have no idea what's going to happen with my MIL but we're fortunate she has some money to pay for things once we need help.

[pumpkin]

This I something I think about a lot as my parents will be 74 & 79 this year. Thankfully they are both still in good health and active but I do worry tons about this and am not sure what to encourage them to think about. I do think they should look into LTC insurance, but while my dad is so practical and thoughtful about so many things this insurance issue seems to be one that he just shrugs off. I’m hoping I can get my mom to get him to discuss it.

And then I try not to worry about myself, because if I think too much about it I start to have a panic attack. Being single and without children (not that I would want to burden them, but it would be nice to know that someone at that point might care and at least check in) really causes me anxiety about being so alone.

[basilosaurus]

Thanks for the new anxiety, friends. I'm child free and never thought about it wrt being old. I'll stick to my plan on going out on a morphine high. Wheee! If I've accumulated anything in life it's friends who can get the good stuff.