Britney Spears conservator case

[NewOrleans]

So much misogyny and ableism ar work in this case.  

Takeaways from the article:
1. She was embarrassed by how she was portrayed in the recent documentary 
2. She has been fighting the conservatorship for at least 5 years
3. @@ she would like another child but the conservatorship required she keep and IUD 😡


www.npr.org/2021/06/23/1009416566/britney-spears-speaks-her-mind-at-last-in-conservatorship-hearing?fbclid=IwAR0f6Wz1P4wF_Zmxh3zfcQWj8iqIezdr2nMnALCi08df73bBgMZ7s4DDqlw

[pugz]

She needs to be freed.

But her trust with the medical/psych community sounds lost and I worry she will reject it all when given the chance. But that is her right to do.

[bimbi284]

Jun 23, 2021 19:42:41 GMT -5 pugz said:

She needs to be freed.

But her trust with the medical/psych community sounds lost and I worry she will reject it all when given the chance. But that is her right to do.

I think part of that though is all of those she has connected with have been in service of the conservatorship and not to her. My hope would be she would be free of this mess and can see professionals of her own choosing who will work for HER and to address her needs that she identifies.

[af1212]

Jun 23, 2021 21:28:53 GMT -5 bimbi284 said:

Jun 23, 2021 19:42:41 GMT -5 pugz said:

She needs to be freed.

But her trust with the medical/psych community sounds lost and I worry she will reject it all when given the chance. But that is her right to do.

I think part of that though is all of those she has connected with have been in service of the conservatorship and not to her. My hope would be she would be free of this mess and can see professionals of her own choosing who will work for HER and to address her needs that she identifies.

In the transcript she says she knows she needs to see a therapist but would like to see them weekly, choose her own person, and see them at her house so paparazzi are not there. These seem like totally reasonable things to me.

[bronxgirl]

I didn't know about the IUD. I find that particularly disturbing.

[abs]

My heart goes out to her. Her dad is a sexist pig and obviously enjoying living off her money. He's not concerned about her.

[raangoli]

I haven't followed this closely at all - but is there a reason why the lawyer who was also in charge of the conservatorship left? And why they weren't replaced by a third party?

[aurora]

I also haven't followed this closely, but from what I've been reading in the past few days I have a hard time imagining a similar level of control would have been awarded to a mother of a famous male musician in a similar situation. And that's even before you get to the reproductive control with the IUD.

[cville]

I don’t know her diagnosis, but nothing NOTHING was helped by the fact that she has carried her family's financial success on her back since she was a child. It's no accident that a primary way she sought to escape her parents' control was through marriage. She was never given agency over her person. Not to mention she was relentlessly stalked by brutal paparazzi. Who took photos and wrote articles we all consumed.

Many people live with mental health challenges and without someone else legally and factually controlling their entire lives.

Her father is a shitpig. But so are the rest of us for reading US Weekly et al.

[af1212]

This seems unbelievable to me after all we have heard and read. She’s not even asking (yet) for the conservatorship to end! She just wants her father off of the financials.

www.npr.org/2021/06/30/1012027100/judge-denies-britney-spears-request-father-removed-conservator

A Los Angeles Superior Court judge signed an order Wednesday denying Britney Spears' request to have her father, Jamie Spears, removed from the financial aspects of her conservatorship.

Judge Brenda Penny denied the request, which was first filed by Spears' attorney, Samuel D. Ingham III, last November.

[Pilsy]

Jul 1, 2021 6:36:57 GMT -5 af1212 said:

This seems unbelievable to me after all we have heard and read. She’s not even asking (yet) for the conservatorship to end! She just wants her father off of the financials.

www.npr.org/2021/06/30/1012027100/judge-denies-britney-spears-request-father-removed-conservator

A Los Angeles Superior Court judge signed an order Wednesday denying Britney Spears' request to have her father, Jamie Spears, removed from the financial aspects of her conservatorship.

Judge Brenda Penny denied the request, which was first filed by Spears' attorney, Samuel D. Ingham III, last November.

I truly don't know why I'm following this, but I saw the headline last night and had the same reaction. 

What am I missing?  

[mouse]

Jul 1, 2021 9:13:34 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Jul 1, 2021 8:13:22 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

I truly don't know why I'm following this, but I saw the headline last night and had the same reaction. 

What am I missing?  

i'm not sure either but *we* as in the general public, do not have any of the confidential info in the file, we don't know what led to it being put in place, her diagnosis, etc. I'm not at all saying that her dad should be involved.  We have britney's statement.  I don't know anything about probate law in CA, is there a guardian ad litem involved in the case? 

Even if there’s good reason to keep the conservatorship, why does her father need to be on it? I cannot understand how it would benefit her to keep a man she distrusts on it, whether or not she has good reasons for not trusting him. Is the point of the conservatorship to ensure her feelings of well-being are met or to preserve her ability to generate wealth no matter how she personally feels about it? Because I feel like at this point it’s pretty obvious how she feels about it.

[kkfeb04]

This case has me pissed off. She was the one making all the money and only allowed $2,000, meanwhile her dad got fucking $16,000 plus an extra $2k for office space.

The fact she has to pay for the fucking lawyers that are fighting to keep her under the conservatorship.

This is to keep her from being manipulated by others but they have manipulated her.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/arts/music/britney-spears-conservatorship.amp.html

[af1212]

Jul 1, 2021 9:13:34 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Jul 1, 2021 8:13:22 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

I truly don't know why I'm following this, but I saw the headline last night and had the same reaction. 

What am I missing?  

i'm not sure either but *we* as in the general public, do not have any of the confidential info in the file, we don't know what led to it being put in place, her diagnosis, etc. I'm not at all saying that her dad should be involved.  We have britney's statement.  I don't know anything about probate law in CA, is there a guardian ad litem involved in the case? 

But even without knowing the confidential specifics, we do know that a person who has been deemed incapable of managing their finances, does not feel comfortable with this man managing her finances. Shouldn’t that be allowed?

If the court says that someone must make money, and must allow someone else to manage that money, shouldn’t that person be allowed to NOT have a specific person involved?

[af1212]

I realize this is a unique situation in that the person under the conservatorship is a public figure, and can speak for herself.

But these situations affect other people as well. Many of them with less resources, less capability, and less advocates than BS. If anything this is a good opportunity to bring to light how these things work.

I feel like the “ward” for lack of a better term should definitely be allowed remove someone from their team. Especially after so long.

[tacokick]

Jul 1, 2021 10:36:08 GMT -5 af1212 said:

I realize this is a unique situation in that the person under the conservatorship is a public figure, and can speak for herself.

But these situations affect other people as well. Many of them with less resources, less capability, and less advocates than BS. If anything this is a good opportunity to bring to light how these things work.

I feel like the “ward” for lack of a better term should definitely be allowed remove someone from their team. Especially after so long.

I think that’s what makes it so tricky. The whole reason someone has a conservator is that their judgement cannot be trusted so therefore they can’t be relied on to make choices about who their conservator is.

I wish Britney had an outside supporter who is “inside” enough to speak on her behalf but she doesn’t seem to.

[af1212]

Jul 1, 2021 10:45:53 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Jul 1, 2021 10:36:08 GMT -5 af1212 said:

I realize this is a unique situation in that the person under the conservatorship is a public figure, and can speak for herself.

But these situations affect other people as well. Many of them with less resources, less capability, and less advocates than BS. If anything this is a good opportunity to bring to light how these things work.

I feel like the “ward” for lack of a better term should definitely be allowed remove someone from their team. Especially after so long.

I think that’s what makes it so tricky. The whole reason someone has a conservator is that their judgement cannot be trusted so therefore they can’t be relied on to make choices about who their conservator is.

I wish Britney had an outside supporter who is “inside” enough to speak on her behalf but she doesn’t seem to.

Yes but I think it’s different to request someone specific NOT be part of things rather than request that they ARE part of things.

Whether her reason is rational or not, she does not feel comfortable with this man managing her finances. She’s not asking to have her boyfriend manage her money (which I can definitely see is a slippery slope - how do you know she’s not being manipulated). She’s just asking not to have this guy do it.

They could appoint a financial services company, or an impartial person hired by the court, or literally anyone else in the world.

Now if she asks repeatedly to have someone removed every year at her review (if there is such a thing) I can see it eventually being denied. But when they are already taking away so much of her autonomy it seems like this one thing can still be give. To her.

[tacokick]

Jul 1, 2021 10:49:40 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Jul 1, 2021 10:45:53 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I think that’s what makes it so tricky. The whole reason someone has a conservator is that their judgement cannot be trusted so therefore they can’t be relied on to make choices about who their conservator is.

I wish Britney had an outside supporter who is “inside” enough to speak on her behalf but she doesn’t seem to.

Yes but I think it’s different to request someone specific NOT be part of things rather than request that they ARE part of things.

Whether her reason is rational or not, she does not feel comfortable with this man managing her finances. She’s not asking to have her boyfriend manage her money (which I can definitely see is a slippery slope - how do you know she’s not being manipulated). She’s just asking not to have this guy do it.

They could appoint a financial services company, or an impartial person hired by the court, or literally anyone else in the world.

Now if she asks repeatedly to have someone removed every year at her review (if there is such a thing) I can see it eventually being denied. But when they are already taking away so much of her autonomy it seems like this one thing can still be give. To her.

I agree her family should be removed and it should all be third party people (now it’s a mix) but judges aren’t doctors and have a lot of leeway. Common wisdom is that your family is the best choice and will have your best interests at heart. In reality that’s not always true. But if you, as the judge, trust the doctors and experts that say she can’t make her own decisions then you are also accepting that she isn’t the best judge of what’s appropriate for her and who should be in charge.

The level of care they are saying she requires would be difficult to staff by a non family member as well. They are basically saying she can’t manage to live alone and care for herself at all. She isn’t alleging she is being abused, she’s saying she wants to go out more and get her nails done. Which is legit but I don’t know if it is enough to go against the expert witnesses who testify that she can’t make these decisions.

[Velar Fricative]

Because she's been under this conservatorship for so long, she hasn't been able to bring that many people into her life who could get to know her well enough that they could be viable alternatives as a conservator. That is fucked up.

I'm not all up on the facts, but I do feel like reading some of the history, more than one judge has made judgments against her that strike me as odd due to what we know and heard. I do wonder what confidential information is available to the judges that ultimately makes them decide against Britney. But man, her father just doesn't seem like the best choice here and that seems reasonably clear to most people.

[gretchenindisguise]

I could see it one of two ways:

1) she's being completely held hostage and the legal system is allowing it as her dad has been able to manipulate the situation.

2) there's stuff the general public doesn't know and will never know because of confidentiality and this judgement makes sense.

I can see either being a possiblity but it seems more likely to be #1 - like 80/20 in my view.

[Wallflower]

I can't get beyond the belief that if she is healthy and in control of herself enough to perform for 2 years in Las Vegas, act as a judge on a reality program, and guest star on TV shows, then she is nowhere near as debilitated as her team wants us to believe.

While I find her specific situation to be incredibly suspect and sad, it infuriates me that she and anyone else in a conservatorship is tied up so completely that they have no options to break free. NO ONE is on their side. Once you've been trapped, you have lost everything.

[lea]

Jul 1, 2021 12:53:51 GMT -5 Wallflower said:

I can't get beyond the belief that if she is healthy and in control of herself enough to perform for 2 years in Las Vegas, act as a judge on a reality program, and guest star on TV shows, then she is nowhere near as debilitated as her team wants us to believe.

While I find her specific situation to be incredibly suspect and sad, it infuriates me that she and anyone else in a conservatorship is tied up so completely that they have no options to break free. NO ONE is on their side. Once you've been trapped, you have lost everything.

This!! I can understand if her diagnosis is such that she needs some legal protections but I do not understand how she can be made to be put on stage and perform for people if she’s as bad as they make it out to seem.

[tacokick]

Jul 1, 2021 12:53:51 GMT -5 Wallflower said:

I can't get beyond the belief that if she is healthy and in control of herself enough to perform for 2 years in Las Vegas, act as a judge on a reality program, and guest star on TV shows, then she is nowhere near as debilitated as her team wants us to believe.

While I find her specific situation to be incredibly suspect and sad, it infuriates me that she and anyone else in a conservatorship is tied up so completely that they have no options to break free. NO ONE is on their side. Once you've been trapped, you have lost everything.

That’s what makes her case so interesting and unusual. They are following the rules as if she is a typical person in a conservatorship situation when clearly she isn’t in that regard.

Britney’s case is really one in a million in that she has huge wealth and apparently can work and earn money. She also must be generating a lot of passive income.

99.9% of people in her situation truly cannot work, make decisions or care for themselves. No one is trying to trap them, they need the help. You don’t want a 95 year old with dementia deciding they want to ditch their guardian, driving a car and starving to death in squalor. Or a person with severe developmental delays deciding to live in a dangerous situation and not being able to care for themselves.

It will be interesting to if there are any changes to the law due to increased interest and awareness. Britney can hire experts to testify on her behalf but the judges haven’t seem to have found them compelling so far.

[lea]

GOP Reps Gaetz, Greene, Biggs, and Owens have invited Britney to testify before Congress.


thehill.com/homenews/house/561184-gop-lawmakers-invite-britney-spears-to-testify-before-congress-amid?fbclid=IwAR3_hKT4aWMItFj6582FmEGWmoMSzBM6ZvuxcMpquJgnbe4HaR-rIsLX8Ys


You just know MTG wants to get her on a mic to ask about the Satanic Hollywood/Democrat cabal.

[mouse]

Jul 1, 2021 14:34:06 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Jul 1, 2021 12:53:51 GMT -5 Wallflower said:

I can't get beyond the belief that if she is healthy and in control of herself enough to perform for 2 years in Las Vegas, act as a judge on a reality program, and guest star on TV shows, then she is nowhere near as debilitated as her team wants us to believe.

While I find her specific situation to be incredibly suspect and sad, it infuriates me that she and anyone else in a conservatorship is tied up so completely that they have no options to break free. NO ONE is on their side. Once you've been trapped, you have lost everything.

That’s what makes her case so interesting and unusual. They are following the rules as if she is a typical person in a conservatorship situation when clearly she isn’t in that regard.

Britney’s case is really one in a million in that she has huge wealth and apparently can work and earn money. She also must be generating a lot of passive income.

99.9% of people in her situation truly cannot work, make decisions or care for themselves. No one is trying to trap them, they need the help. You don’t want a 95 year old with dementia deciding they want to ditch their guardian, driving a car and starving to death in squalor. Or a person with severe developmental delays deciding to live in a dangerous situation and not being able to care for themselves.

It will be interesting to if there are any changes to the law due to increased interest and awareness. Britney can hire experts to testify on her behalf but the judges haven’t seem to have found them compelling so far.

I don’t know. This quote is a from a few years ago, but the patriarchy just drips:

(From NYT:)
When Mr. Ingham mentioned that Ms. Spears believed the conservatorship prevented her from retiring, getting married and having children, the judge at the time, Reva G. Goetz said, “I don’t recall that we made any orders about the right to marry, but you may not want to tell her that.”

I still find it hard to believe a male artist in this situation would be treated in such a condescending way, with so little control over their private moments.

[tacokick]

Jul 1, 2021 15:58:45 GMT -5 mouse said:

Jul 1, 2021 14:34:06 GMT -5 tacokick said:

That’s what makes her case so interesting and unusual. They are following the rules as if she is a typical person in a conservatorship situation when clearly she isn’t in that regard.

Britney’s case is really one in a million in that she has huge wealth and apparently can work and earn money. She also must be generating a lot of passive income.

99.9% of people in her situation truly cannot work, make decisions or care for themselves. No one is trying to trap them, they need the help. You don’t want a 95 year old with dementia deciding they want to ditch their guardian, driving a car and starving to death in squalor. Or a person with severe developmental delays deciding to live in a dangerous situation and not being able to care for themselves.

It will be interesting to if there are any changes to the law due to increased interest and awareness. Britney can hire experts to testify on her behalf but the judges haven’t seem to have found them compelling so far.

I don’t know. This quote is a from a few years ago, but the patriarchy just drips:

(From NYT:)
When Mr. Ingham mentioned that Ms. Spears believed the conservatorship prevented her from retiring, getting married and having children, the judge at the time, Reva G. Goetz said, “I don’t recall that we made any orders about the right to marry, but you may not want to tell her that.”

I still find it hard to believe a male artist in this situation would be treated in such a condescending way, with so little control over their private moments.

I don’t really know of any other celebrity, male or female who has ever been in this position with family who would or have taken this step.

As I said up thread, the judges aren’t experts and have huge control. I’m sure many of them are sexist and know nothing about mental health. People can petition for the removal of judges in many areas. It’s possible that is a route they may take.

Anyone under conservatorship doesn’t have control over their private life. That’s the point. It’s for people who lack the capacity to make decisions for themselves. It’s paternalistic but at its heart it is to protect people with diminished capacity from harming themselves or being taken advantage of by others.

It’s hard to know what Britney’s state was in the beginning or now. I think it needs to be in the hands of a third party entirely instead of having her father involved but I can see a judge not being swayed by her statement. It was really hard to follow and had parts about wanting to get her hair and nails done during a pandemic, talking about sex trafficking, blood tests, Miley Cyrus —all sorts of barely tangentially related things. I don’t know if it was the testament of her metal wellness she thought it was. If her father and experts are more coherent and saying they want to help her, I can see the judge siding with them.

[af1212]

Jul 1, 2021 18:03:59 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Jul 1, 2021 15:58:45 GMT -5 mouse said:

I don’t know. This quote is a from a few years ago, but the patriarchy just drips:

(From NYT:)
When Mr. Ingham mentioned that Ms. Spears believed the conservatorship prevented her from retiring, getting married and having children, the judge at the time, Reva G. Goetz said, “I don’t recall that we made any orders about the right to marry, but you may not want to tell her that.”

I still find it hard to believe a male artist in this situation would be treated in such a condescending way, with so little control over their private moments.

I don’t really know of any other celebrity, male or female who has ever been in this position with family who would or have taken this step.

As I said up thread, the judges aren’t experts and have huge control. I’m sure many of them are sexist and know nothing about mental health. People can petition for the removal of judges in many areas. It’s possible that is a route they may take.

Anyone under conservatorship doesn’t have control over their private life. That’s the point. It’s for people who lack the capacity to make decisions for themselves. It’s paternalistic but at its heart it is to protect people with diminished capacity from harming themselves or being taken advantage of by others.

It’s hard to know what Britney’s state was in the beginning or now. I think it needs to be in the hands of a third party entirely instead of her father in charge but I can see a judge not being swayed by her statement. It was really hard to follow and had parts about wanting to get her hair and nails done during a pandemic, talking about sex trafficking, blood tests, Miley Cyrus —all sorts of barely tangentially related things. I don’t know if it was the testament of her metal wellness she thought it was. If her father and experts are more coherent and saying they want to help her, I can see the judge siding with them.

I’m not sure if you heard it or read it. I only read it but I read somewhere that the audio sounds much more coherent than the transcript looks.

[af1212]

And now the financial services company that was the impartial party in all of this is withdrawing since she is not a voluntary member of this arrangement.

www.npr.org/2021/07/01/1012290964/company-asks-to-withdraw-from-britney-spears-conservatorship

In its filing, Bessemer stated: "As a result of the conservatee's testimony at the June 23 hearing, however, Petitioner [Bessemer Trust] has become aware that the conservatee objects to the continuance of her conservatorship and desires to terminate the conservatorship. Petitioner has heard the conservatee and respects her wishes."

The company also said its role had not yet taken effect. It wrote that it is "not currently authorized to act, has taken no actions as conservator, has made no decisions as conservator, has received no assets of the estate [and] has taken no fees."

[tacokick]

Jul 1, 2021 18:08:57 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Jul 1, 2021 18:03:59 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I don’t really know of any other celebrity, male or female who has ever been in this position with family who would or have taken this step.

As I said up thread, the judges aren’t experts and have huge control. I’m sure many of them are sexist and know nothing about mental health. People can petition for the removal of judges in many areas. It’s possible that is a route they may take.

Anyone under conservatorship doesn’t have control over their private life. That’s the point. It’s for people who lack the capacity to make decisions for themselves. It’s paternalistic but at its heart it is to protect people with diminished capacity from harming themselves or being taken advantage of by others.

It’s hard to know what Britney’s state was in the beginning or now. I think it needs to be in the hands of a third party entirely instead of her father in charge but I can see a judge not being swayed by her statement. It was really hard to follow and had parts about wanting to get her hair and nails done during a pandemic, talking about sex trafficking, blood tests, Miley Cyrus —all sorts of barely tangentially related things. I don’t know if it was the testament of her metal wellness she thought it was. If her father and experts are more coherent and saying they want to help her, I can see the judge siding with them.

I’m not sure if you heard it or read it. I only read it but I read somewhere that the audio sounds much more coherent than the transcript looks.

I did hear it before it was taken down. It really didn’t sound much better IMO. The transcript is accurate so the content didn’t change. It was just a little more clear when she was pausing to take a breath so less run on sounding but it was still really difficult to follow.

[tacokick]

Jul 1, 2021 18:11:59 GMT -5 af1212 said:

And now the financial services company that was the impartial party in all of this is withdrawing since she is not a voluntary member of this arrangement.

www.npr.org/2021/07/01/1012290964/company-asks-to-withdraw-from-britney-spears-conservatorship

In its filing, Bessemer stated: "As a result of the conservatee's testimony at the June 23 hearing, however, Petitioner [Bessemer Trust] has become aware that the conservatee objects to the continuance of her conservatorship and desires to terminate the conservatorship. Petitioner has heard the conservatee and respects her wishes."

The company also said its role had not yet taken effect. It wrote that it is "not currently authorized to act, has taken no actions as conservator, has made no decisions as conservator, has received no assets of the estate [and] has taken no fees."

I’m not sure what this is going to do but force them to pick a different company. I’m surprised they hadn’t done anything yet. That seems odd.

I would not want to be in the middle of this at all so I’m not surprised they’d back out. I’ll be interested to see what ends up happening.