After their efforts to overturn the 2020 election in support of former President Trump failed, Reps. Jim Jordan (R-OH) and Matt Gaetz (R-FL) are now pivoting to a new battle in the culture wars, getting in on the fight over the legal guardianship of pop icon Britney Spears.
In a letter sent to House Judiciary Committee Chair Jerry Nadler (D-NY) on Monday, Jordan and Gaetz called for a hearing on conservatorships, referencing the pop superstar’s involuntary conservatorship enacted 13 year ago. Spears’ father, Jamie Spears, was granted the authority by courts to manage the celebrity’s daily and financial affairs ever since then.
After their efforts to overturn the 2020 election in support of former President Trump failed, Reps. Jim Jordan (R-OH) and Matt Gaetz (R-FL) are now pivoting to a new battle in the culture wars, getting in on the fight over the legal guardianship of pop icon Britney Spears.
In a letter sent to House Judiciary Committee Chair Jerry Nadler (D-NY) on Monday, Jordan and Gaetz called for a hearing on conservatorships, referencing the pop superstar’s involuntary conservatorship enacted 13 year ago. Spears’ father, Jamie Spears, was granted the authority by courts to manage the celebrity’s daily and financial affairs ever since then.
Stop. STAHP. Jordan and Gaetz. The two people in Congress who should be furthest from her.
After their efforts to overturn the 2020 election in support of former President Trump failed, Reps. Jim Jordan (R-OH) and Matt Gaetz (R-FL) are now pivoting to a new battle in the culture wars, getting in on the fight over the legal guardianship of pop icon Britney Spears.
In a letter sent to House Judiciary Committee Chair Jerry Nadler (D-NY) on Monday, Jordan and Gaetz called for a hearing on conservatorships, referencing the pop superstar’s involuntary conservatorship enacted 13 year ago. Spears’ father, Jamie Spears, was granted the authority by courts to manage the celebrity’s daily and financial affairs ever since then.
Stop. STAHP. Jordan and Gaetz. The two people in Congress who should be furthest from her.
I don’t know. This quote is a from a few years ago, but the patriarchy just drips:
(From NYT:) When Mr. Ingham mentioned that Ms. Spears believed the conservatorship prevented her from retiring, getting married and having children, the judge at the time, Reva G. Goetz said, “I don’t recall that we made any orders about the right to marry, but you may not want to tell her that.”
I still find it hard to believe a male artist in this situation would be treated in such a condescending way, with so little control over their private moments.
I don’t really know of any other celebrity, male or female who has ever been in this position with family who would or have taken this step.
As I said up thread, the judges aren’t experts and have huge control. I’m sure many of them are sexist and know nothing about mental health. People can petition for the removal of judges in many areas. It’s possible that is a route they may take.
Anyone under conservatorship doesn’t have control over their private life. That’s the point. It’s for people who lack the capacity to make decisions for themselves. It’s paternalistic but at its heart it is to protect people with diminished capacity from harming themselves or being taken advantage of by others.
It’s hard to know what Britney’s state was in the beginning or now. I think it needs to be in the hands of a third party entirely instead of having her father involved but I can see a judge not being swayed by her statement. It was really hard to follow and had parts about wanting to get her hair and nails done during a pandemic, talking about sex trafficking, blood tests, Miley Cyrus —all sorts of barely tangentially related things. I don’t know if it was the testament of her metal wellness she thought it was. If her father and experts are more coherent and saying they want to help her, I can see the judge siding with them.
I think the audio sounded completely coherent. She was saying that her conservators were telling her she was not allowed to get her hair and nails done (which she considers self-care) because of the pandemic but she saw her cleaning ladies who had freshly done nails and her mom was able to get her hair done…. Basically she felt her conservator was lying to her.
I think it’s a lot to expect Britney to sound a certain way or address the court in a certain way given everything that has gone on over the past 10+ years. Isn’t she addressing the same judge who didn’t even listen to her the last time? Hasn’t she begged people not to have her father involved this whole time and everyone has kept him on? I would have been sobbing and hardly coherent if I was her.
I don’t really know of any other celebrity, male or female who has ever been in this position with family who would or have taken this step.
As I said up thread, the judges aren’t experts and have huge control. I’m sure many of them are sexist and know nothing about mental health. People can petition for the removal of judges in many areas. It’s possible that is a route they may take.
Anyone under conservatorship doesn’t have control over their private life. That’s the point. It’s for people who lack the capacity to make decisions for themselves. It’s paternalistic but at its heart it is to protect people with diminished capacity from harming themselves or being taken advantage of by others.
It’s hard to know what Britney’s state was in the beginning or now. I think it needs to be in the hands of a third party entirely instead of having her father involved but I can see a judge not being swayed by her statement. It was really hard to follow and had parts about wanting to get her hair and nails done during a pandemic, talking about sex trafficking, blood tests, Miley Cyrus —all sorts of barely tangentially related things. I don’t know if it was the testament of her metal wellness she thought it was. If her father and experts are more coherent and saying they want to help her, I can see the judge siding with them.
I think the audio sounded completely coherent. She was saying that her conservators were telling her she was not allowed to get her hair and nails done (which she considers self-care) because of the pandemic but she saw her cleaning ladies who had freshly done nails and her mom was able to get her hair done…. Basically she felt her conservator was lying to her.
I think it’s a lot to expect Britney to sound a certain way or address the court in a certain way given everything that has gone on over the past 10+ years. Isn’t she addressing the same judge who didn’t even listen to her the last time? Hasn’t she begged people not to have her father involved this whole time and everyone has kept him on? I would have been sobbing and hardly coherent if I was her.
Yeah it’s such a catch 22 for her. She was deemed mentally ill and too incompetent to look after her own best interest... so now anything she says or does to try to fight that gives the impression of reaffirming how “crazy” she is. Stigma is a real bitch.
seeyalater52, Very appropriate analogy. Off topic Catch 22 was one of my favorite books and I wrote an essay in my AP English exa m about insanity and how everyone thought that Yossarian was insane, but really he was the only sane one around.
I don’t really know of any other celebrity, male or female who has ever been in this position with family who would or have taken this step.
As I said up thread, the judges aren’t experts and have huge control. I’m sure many of them are sexist and know nothing about mental health. People can petition for the removal of judges in many areas. It’s possible that is a route they may take.
Anyone under conservatorship doesn’t have control over their private life. That’s the point. It’s for people who lack the capacity to make decisions for themselves. It’s paternalistic but at its heart it is to protect people with diminished capacity from harming themselves or being taken advantage of by others.
It’s hard to know what Britney’s state was in the beginning or now. I think it needs to be in the hands of a third party entirely instead of having her father involved but I can see a judge not being swayed by her statement. It was really hard to follow and had parts about wanting to get her hair and nails done during a pandemic, talking about sex trafficking, blood tests, Miley Cyrus —all sorts of barely tangentially related things. I don’t know if it was the testament of her metal wellness she thought it was. If her father and experts are more coherent and saying they want to help her, I can see the judge siding with them.
I think the audio sounded completely coherent. She was saying that her conservators were telling her she was not allowed to get her hair and nails done (which she considers self-care) because of the pandemic but she saw her cleaning ladies who had freshly done nails and her mom was able to get her hair done…. Basically she felt her conservator was lying to her.
I think it’s a lot to expect Britney to sound a certain way or address the court in a certain way given everything that has gone on over the past 10+ years. Isn’t she addressing the same judge who didn’t even listen to her the last time? Hasn’t she begged people not to have her father involved this whole time and everyone has kept him on? I would have been sobbing and hardly coherent if I was her.
Yes, it is a lot to expect but that’s the reality of hearings. You are judged on what you are saying and how you say it.
The content was very rambling and difficult to follow. As I said, I can see how that wouldn’t be very convincing to a judge who is hearing from her family and experts that she is unwell.
The fixating on getting her nails done during a pandemic was an odd thing for a hearing about conservatorship. I get her point, self care, she felt like her conservators weren’t being upfront with her.
But we and the judge know that everything was shut down. Maybe her staff was doing their own nails or had friends who were now unemployed manicurists do them. Maybe her mom had someone blow her hair out at home? Who knows?
Complaining that your conservators didn’t want you to be in close quarters with strangers during a global health crisis so you could get your nails and hair done doesn’t make them sound unreasonable. I don’t know anyone who got manicures or their hair done for over a year. It makes it sound like she wasn’t aware of what was going on with Covid at all or how serious the virus was in CA or LA at the time. That doesn’t speak to her being able to make health decisions for herself. If she had gone to get her nails done and got COVID then that would have been a failure on the part of her conservators. They have a duty of care to keep her out of situations that could negatively impact her health. And for better or worse, complaining about your nails sounds frivolous.
The parts about her medication and treatments were more concerning but she was not very clear what exactly happened, why or how or when and then she veered into a different topic then back again. She sounds very distressed (rightly!) but it didn’t make a ton of sense.
I agree that her father should be removed and everything should be done via a third party.
I’m not sure why her lawyers let her present that statement and didn’t work with her to make it more focused and convincing. Saying things like “I don’t even believe in therapy. I always think you take it to God. I want to end the conservatorship without being evaluated.” doesn’t make it seem like she is open to getting help to transition into her being on her own or making her own decisions. I feel awful for her but I don’t think she is giving the judge a lot to make them feel comfortable releasing her from her situation.
I think the audio sounded completely coherent. She was saying that her conservators were telling her she was not allowed to get her hair and nails done (which she considers self-care) because of the pandemic but she saw her cleaning ladies who had freshly done nails and her mom was able to get her hair done…. Basically she felt her conservator was lying to her.
I think it’s a lot to expect Britney to sound a certain way or address the court in a certain way given everything that has gone on over the past 10+ years. Isn’t she addressing the same judge who didn’t even listen to her the last time? Hasn’t she begged people not to have her father involved this whole time and everyone has kept him on? I would have been sobbing and hardly coherent if I was her.
Yeah it’s such a catch 22 for her. She was deemed mentally ill and too incompetent to look after her own best interest... so now anything she says or does to try to fight that gives the impression of reaffirming how “crazy” she is. Stigma is a real bitch.
I’m honestly puzzled why her lawyer let her read that statement and didn’t work with her to be more focused and have it make more sense. Her points were mostly valid but it was all over the place and including that she doesn’t believe in therapy and doesn’t want to have to be evaluated before ending the conservatorship couldn’t have worked in her favor. It sucks but if you want out, you do have to play the game and put your best face forward.
Post by foundmylazybum on Jul 2, 2021 11:02:43 GMT -5
It's a little odd to me that there is an expectation that in order to gain her agency back Brittany Spears must present as perfectly composed, and the laws, rules, and procedures that are keeping her and others like her in these types of situations are like unending claws.
Meanwhile, the serial rapist, Bill Cosby is let free on a prosecutiorial error.
If the bar for having control of your entire life taken away was "rambles when upset, doesn't know much about the law, cares too much about nails, and is weird about therapy" then like everybody in the world's aunt who comments on shit on facebook should be under conservatorship.
There has to be a better system for dealing with this than....this.
Because what it sure feels like is that she was placed in this situation not because she was truly a danger to herself with her decision making (not in any way worse than SO MANY PEOPLE out there making bad choices), but because she was a danger to the gravy train for her family. And why the FUCK would the lawyers ALSO profiting off said gravy train do more than the absolute bare fucking minimum to help her end the situation?? Their ethics gonna stop em? sure.
That’s what makes her case so interesting and unusual. They are following the rules as if she is a typical person in a conservatorship situation when clearly she isn’t in that regard.
Britney’s case is really one in a million in that she has huge wealth and apparently can work and earn money. She also must be generating a lot of passive income.
99.9% of people in her situation truly cannot work, make decisions or care for themselves. No one is trying to trap them, they need the help. You don’t want a 95 year old with dementia deciding they want to ditch their guardian, driving a car and starving to death in squalor. Or a person with severe developmental delays deciding to live in a dangerous situation and not being able to care for themselves.
It will be interesting to if there are any changes to the law due to increased interest and awareness. Britney can hire experts to testify on her behalf but the judges haven’t seem to have found them compelling so far.
I don’t know. This quote is a from a few years ago, but the patriarchy just drips:
(From NYT:) When Mr. Ingham mentioned that Ms. Spears believed the conservatorship prevented her from retiring, getting married and having children, the judge at the time, Reva G. Goetz said, “I don’t recall that we made any orders about the right to marry, but you may not want to tell her that.”
I still find it hard to believe a male artist in this situation would be treated in such a condescending way, with so little control over their private moments.
tldr without @: I was admitted on a mental health hold and told it was at least 72 hours. They told DH I could leave anytime but they didn’t tell me, he told me. Turns out too my problems are physical and not mental health, I was never examined. So I stand by Britney because there are probably some lies and withholding information. Plus I think they’re failing her since she doesn’t understand why she has a conservatorship even if she does need one.
If the bar for having control of your entire life taken away was "rambles when upset, doesn't know much about the law, cares too much about nails, and is weird about therapy" then like everybody in the world's aunt who comments on shit on facebook should be under conservatorship.
There has to be a better system for dealing with this than....this.
Because what it sure feels like is that she was placed in this situation not because she was truly a danger to herself with her decision making (not in any way worse than SO MANY PEOPLE out there making bad choices), but because she was a danger to the gravy train for her family. And why the FUCK would the lawyers ALSO profiting off said gravy train do more than the absolute bare fucking minimum to help her end the situation?? Their ethics gonna stop em? sure.
That’s what makes her case so unusual. It’s really hard to know what is going on and in 99.9% of the cases it’s very clear the person can’t take care of themselves. The fact that Britney seems able to work in some capacity and is so wealthy really muddies the issue.
It’s too late to debate if she should have been under conservatorship on the first place and what got her there 13 years ago. That’s over with. The issue now is that she wants to get out and that is what is the focus.
That means making sure she sounds like she knows what’s going on and can take care of herself. No judge is going to let her out without some sort of an evaluation and saying you don’t believe in getting help for your documented mental health issues and don’t want to be evaluated is not how you get out of the situation she is in.
Even if, as you say her own lawyers working for her don’t have ethics and don’t care about her, she is paying them to defend her and presumably may be retained to help her in the future. They can profit off her when she is a “free” person as well. I’m really not sure why they didn’t do their job and work on a more clear statement with her. A simple statement saying that she wants her father to be removed entirely and is seeking more control over her personal life and wants be involved in finding other treatments for her would made a much better impression and possibly yielded better results. It isn’t Facebook, it’s a hearing to discuss her legal situation. They had to know this statement didn’t make much sense and would work against her.
I don’t know. This quote is a from a few years ago, but the patriarchy just drips:
(From NYT:) When Mr. Ingham mentioned that Ms. Spears believed the conservatorship prevented her from retiring, getting married and having children, the judge at the time, Reva G. Goetz said, “I don’t recall that we made any orders about the right to marry, but you may not want to tell her that.”
I still find it hard to believe a male artist in this situation would be treated in such a condescending way, with so little control over their private moments.
So anyway, I’m really pissed for Britney and I give her my full support. I don’t know all the specifics of her case, but I was lied to and I suspect there is some of that happening to her too when it shouldn’t be. The dishonesty is really angering regardless of the pieces we don’t know as the general public. Plus the medical neglect I suffered from was disgusting, and I hope she doesn’t have anything like that, and that she does have good medical care. Maybe there are parts of her life that require close supervision, hopefully not as much as she has now. And maybe she doesn’t have a ruling for that much supervision if she was lied to! I hate that she never spoke up before because she didn’t think anyone would believe her. It breaks my heart. Even if she needs this much supervision, she is still being failed by those helping her because they have not helped her understand why. I don’t want to speculate since we don’t know all of the confidential pieces but it’s really hard not to after my experiences.
I’m sorry this happened to you! Our health system is a true nightmare.
Britney is being failed in every way! Her family sounds awful, she seems confused and no one seems to be willing and able to give her a straight answer about what is going on. Her own lawyers don’t see to be able to do the basics of their job. She doesn’t seem to know what the conservatorship covers or why she is under it all. She seems deeply unhappy. It’s no way to live.
Yeah it’s such a catch 22 for her. She was deemed mentally ill and too incompetent to look after her own best interest... so now anything she says or does to try to fight that gives the impression of reaffirming how “crazy” she is. Stigma is a real bitch.
I’m honestly puzzled why her lawyer let her read that statement and didn’t work with her to be more focused and have it make more sense. Her points were mostly valid but it was all over the place and including that she doesn’t believe in therapy and doesn’t want to have to be evaluated before ending the conservatorship couldn’t have worked in her favor. It sucks but if you want out, you do have to play the game and put your best face forward.
I gather they make way money when she’s under the conservatorship than they would if she wasn’t. This seems like a victim blaming statement to me. If she read a statement her lawyer prepared for her she would be accused of being wooden and fake and rehearsed and that would be just as damning. Once you’ve got the label you’re always suspect and I’m confident that how she sounded during the statement had very little to do with the outcome of this case.* It seems like gaslighting to act like someone who has been so thoroughly victimized by the system has to play nice within really narrow boundaries of that system or they can’t have basic freedoms respected. I’m a sane and competent person and if this happened to me I’d be a lot less coherent than she was.
*also did you listen to it? It doesn’t sound any worse to me than floor speeches in congress and state legislatures which I listen to all day long. Transcripts always look stupid. She’s no less coherent than several democratic legislators I respect very much and who are entirely sane and very smart to boot.
It's a little odd to me that there is an expectation that in order to gain her agency back Brittany Spears must present as perfectly composed, and the laws, rules, and procedures that are keeping her and others like her in these types of situations are like unending claws.
Meanwhile, the serial rapist, Bill Cosby is let free on a prosecutiorial error.
There is an expectation of composure because the entire reason someone is under conservatorship is because it was ruled they can’t take care of themselves. I’m not sure how else it could be reversed but by articulating that you now can take care of yourself and fully understand what is going on.
The only real connection between these two cases is that in both lawyers made serious mistakes. In Cosby’s case they made a prosecutorial error. In Britney’s they didn’t help her prepare a statement that was coherent and had a clear plan for her future which would satisfy a judge. I’m not sure why or how that happened.
I’m honestly puzzled why her lawyer let her read that statement and didn’t work with her to be more focused and have it make more sense. Her points were mostly valid but it was all over the place and including that she doesn’t believe in therapy and doesn’t want to have to be evaluated before ending the conservatorship couldn’t have worked in her favor. It sucks but if you want out, you do have to play the game and put your best face forward.
I gather they make way money when she’s under the conservatorship than they would if she wasn’t. This seems like a victim blaming statement to me. If she read a statement her lawyer prepared for her she would be accused of being wooden and fake and rehearsed and that would be just as damning. Once you’ve got the label you’re always suspect and I’m confident that how she sounded during the statement had very little to do with the outcome of this case.* It seems like gaslighting to act like someone who has been so thoroughly victimized by the system has to play nice within really narrow boundaries of that system or they can’t have basic freedoms respected. I’m a sane and competent person and if this happened to me I’d be a lot less coherent than she was.
*also did you listen to it? It doesn’t sound any worse to me than floor speeches in congress and state legislatures which I listen to all day long. Transcripts always look stupid. She’s no less coherent than several democratic legislators I respect very much and who are entirely sane and very smart to boot.
Yes, as I said up thread, I did listen to it. It sounded marginally better with pauses but the content was the same.
I’m not victim blaming. I don’t know her. I don’t know her mental state. I think people have been failing her since she was a small child. I don’t know why her lawyers didn’t work with her to write a better statement. It’s bizarre to me. They had to know that wouldn’t work.
I never said nor do I think she should read someone else’s statement. Her lawyers job is to work with her to create one that is successful. They failed her.
As I’ve said, she really is a one in a million case. Most people under conservatorship are so impaired they can’t work, don’t have money and aren’t trying to overturn it because it is desperately needed help.
Our health system is awful. So is our legal system. But that’s what we have to deal with. If you want to get out of a conservatorship you need to be able to prove you can get help on your own as needed, that you aren’t a risk to yourself or others, that you understand what is going on and so on. A statement saying you don’t believe in therapy and that you don’t want to get help or evaluated and that you think people were lying to you about salons being closed or the safety of a manicure during a pandemic isn’t how you do that. I’m sorry she has play the game and follow the rules but that’s where she is at right now.
It’s not “gaslighting” to say that she is going to be the most successful if she presents her best case in a way that the court will understand. It’s just true. The system isn’t going to be overthrown in time to help her.
Maybe if she did present a cohesive plan and clear statement the judge would still have ruled against her. Who knows? But she might have had more of a chance.
It's a little odd to me that there is an expectation that in order to gain her agency back Brittany Spears must present as perfectly composed, and the laws, rules, and procedures that are keeping her and others like her in these types of situations are like unending claws.
Meanwhile, the serial rapist, Bill Cosby is let free on a prosecutiorial error.
There is an expectation of composure because the entire reason someone is under conservatorship is because it was ruled they can’t take care of themselves. I’m not sure how else it could be reversed but by articulating that you now can take care of yourself and fully understand what is going on.
The only real connection between these two cases is that in both lawyers made serious mistakes. In Cosby’s case they made a prosecutorial error. In Britney’s they didn’t help her prepare a statement that was coherent and had a clear plan for her future which would satisfy a judge. I’m not sure why or how that happened.
I think its a big oversimplification of conservatorship to say that continuation or ending it hinges on the person's composure during their statement.
Also, I just have to say:
Tons of people still got their nails and hair done during the pandemic. There were protests during the pandemic.
Brittany is asking for bodily autonomy which includes the right (right or wrong) to decide at this point if she wants therapy..and given all that she has been through, I'm frankly not surprised she thinks it's bullshit. I bet she has received bad treatment and it was against her will, which are two things that definitely result in poor outcomes.
These are NOT examples of what make a person incompetent.
🙄 they are choices we might not agree with.
The comparison to Bill Cosby is that a philosophical question is raised:
How is there justice in this country or world as one person who committed such heinous actions against others..repeatedly and for years going to obtain their freedoms while another must repeatedly and continuously in large and small ways answer and justify their freedom across so many platforms (including this one, right here).
If the bar for having control of your entire life taken away was "rambles when upset, doesn't know much about the law, cares too much about nails, and is weird about therapy" then like everybody in the world's aunt who comments on shit on facebook should be under conservatorship.
There has to be a better system for dealing with this than....this.
Because what it sure feels like is that she was placed in this situation not because she was truly a danger to herself with her decision making (not in any way worse than SO MANY PEOPLE out there making bad choices), but because she was a danger to the gravy train for her family. And why the FUCK would the lawyers ALSO profiting off said gravy train do more than the absolute bare fucking minimum to help her end the situation?? Their ethics gonna stop em? sure.
That’s what makes her case so unusual. It’s really hard to know what is going on and in 99.9% of the cases it’s very clear the person can’t take care of themselves. The fact that Britney seems able to work in some capacity and is so wealthy really muddies the issue.
It’s too late to debate if she should have been under conservatorship on the first place and what got her there 13 years ago. That’s over with. The issue now is that she wants to get out and that is what is the focus.
That means making sure she sounds like she knows what’s going on and can take care of herself. No judge is going to let her out without some sort of an evaluation and saying you don’t believe in getting help for your documented mental health issues and don’t want to be evaluated is not how you get out of the situation she is in.
Even if, as you say her own lawyers working for her don’t have ethics and don’t care about her, she is paying them to defend her and presumably may be retained to help her in the future. They can profit off her when she is a “free” person as well. I’m really not sure why they didn’t do their job and work on a more clear statement with her. A simple statement saying that she wants her father to be removed entirely and is seeking more control over her personal life and wants be involved in finding other treatments for her would made a much better impression and possibly yielded better results. It isn’t Facebook, it’s a hearing to discuss her legal situation. They had to know this statement didn’t make much sense and would work against her.
She specifically says that she knows she needs therapy and that she wants it. She just wants it once a week, and in her home or an otherwise private location where paparazzi won’t be stalking her.
These seem like totally reasonable requests to me.
There is an expectation of composure because the entire reason someone is under conservatorship is because it was ruled they can’t take care of themselves. I’m not sure how else it could be reversed but by articulating that you now can take care of yourself and fully understand what is going on.
The only real connection between these two cases is that in both lawyers made serious mistakes. In Cosby’s case they made a prosecutorial error. In Britney’s they didn’t help her prepare a statement that was coherent and had a clear plan for her future which would satisfy a judge. I’m not sure why or how that happened.
I think its a big oversimplification of conservatorship to say that continuation or ending it hinges on the person's composure during their statement.
Also, I just have to say:
Tons of people still got their nails and hair done during the pandemic. There were protests during the pandemic.
Brittany is asking for bodily autonomy which includes the right (right or wrong) to decide at this point if she wants therapy..and given all that she has been through, I'm frankly not surprised she thinks it's bullshit. I bet she has received bad treatment and it was against her will, which are two things that definitely result in poor outcomes.
These are NOT examples of what make a person incompetent.
🙄 they are choices we might not agree with.
The comparison to Bill Cosby is that a philosophical question is raised:
How is there justice in this country or world as one person who committed such heinous actions against others..repeatedly and for years going to obtain their freedoms while another must repeatedly and continuously in large and small ways answer and justify their freedom across so many platforms (including this one, right here).
Yes, people did and do things that risked their health during a pandemic. That doesn’t mean a a conservator would allow their ward, who legally isn’t considered competent to make that decision, to do that. If they ok’d salon trips and she got Covid that would be negligence on their part.
We all know the legal system is flawed. That’s not really up for debate. Right now Britney needs to work within that system to get what she wants. Being composed, having a coherent statement and plan for the future is literally what is needed to show you understand what is going on and can care for yourself. That’s just the reality we all are living in right now. If she wants it to end, she needs to find a team that can get her there. What’s she’s doing now clearly isn’t working
That’s what makes her case so unusual. It’s really hard to know what is going on and in 99.9% of the cases it’s very clear the person can’t take care of themselves. The fact that Britney seems able to work in some capacity and is so wealthy really muddies the issue.
It’s too late to debate if she should have been under conservatorship on the first place and what got her there 13 years ago. That’s over with. The issue now is that she wants to get out and that is what is the focus.
That means making sure she sounds like she knows what’s going on and can take care of herself. No judge is going to let her out without some sort of an evaluation and saying you don’t believe in getting help for your documented mental health issues and don’t want to be evaluated is not how you get out of the situation she is in.
Even if, as you say her own lawyers working for her don’t have ethics and don’t care about her, she is paying them to defend her and presumably may be retained to help her in the future. They can profit off her when she is a “free” person as well. I’m really not sure why they didn’t do their job and work on a more clear statement with her. A simple statement saying that she wants her father to be removed entirely and is seeking more control over her personal life and wants be involved in finding other treatments for her would made a much better impression and possibly yielded better results. It isn’t Facebook, it’s a hearing to discuss her legal situation. They had to know this statement didn’t make much sense and would work against her.
She specifically says that she knows she needs therapy and that she wants it. She just wants it once a week, and in her home or an otherwise private location where paparazzi won’t be stalking her.
These seem like totally reasonable requests to me.
She also said “I don’t even believe in therapy. I always think you take it to God. I want to end the conservatorship without being evaluated.”
That’s part of what made her statement so confusing.
That’s why I keep saying that if she wants things to change she needs to go through the proper channels and present things in the correct way. Hopefully they will file the right petition soon if that’s what she wants.
That’s why I keep saying that if she wants things to change she needs to go through the proper channels and present things in the correct way. That hasn’t happened yet so nothing will change until it does.
According to her testimony she just learned that was an option 8 days ago. So of course she can’t have petitioned the court and have had it ruled upon this quickly.
But the request to have her father removed was filed in November snd ruled on after her testimony. That is the part that is surprising to many I think.
That’s why I keep saying that if she wants things to change she needs to go through the proper channels and present things in the correct way. That hasn’t happened yet so nothing will change until it does.
According to her testimony she just learned that was an option 8 days ago. So of course she can’t have petitioned the court and have had it ruled upon this quickly.
But the request to have her father removed was filed in November snd ruled on after her testimony. That is the part that is surprising to many I think.
I really don’t know what her lawyers are doing at all. If I knew years ago she could file her lawyers sure should have.
It is strange they won’t completely remove her father. I think adding the trust was to be a compromise with that. I said it upthread but I think it is difficult to find non family members or friends to do this level of work for another person which may play into it.
Post by foundmylazybum on Jul 2, 2021 16:31:57 GMT -5
I'm sure I won't say this perfectly but I'm feeling really, really frustrated by the continued pushing of the idea that BS needs to present herself as composed, "play the game" etc, etc in order to rid herself of this conservativeship.
For one thing, I'm fairly certain this is a fallacy in the first place. It's series of complex laws and policies that are keeping it in place. Not a speech, and the fact that it is being presented this way in this post continuously is placing a TON of blame and responsibility on Spears who is the victim here.
Additionally there is a strong thread of a ableism here. Maybe it's not intentional but it sounds to me like the thought is that in order for BS to get out from this she must somehow present as perfect, composed, completely prepared and thereby the perfect victim.
It's ableist in that the suggestion in that unless Spears presents as "perfect" (composed, not rambling, saying everything just so) she is NOT competent.
There is a big area of grey between these two ends. Including the idea that because Spears is the victim in her conservativeship she doesn't KNOW all the ins and outs OF it, and blaming her for that ignorance is..in fact ableism.
I feel bad for her, and think that this situation could happen to any one of us, because it's the laws and systems in place that are chains.