I let my angry get the better of me at swim lessons one year and I regret it. My kids both swim just fine now but I felt it just didn't help at the time and made the time it took for lessons to be productive longer than it would have had I not lost my cool. So I both understand your reaction but I think mentally preparing for future lessons to go poorly will help you remain calm and not make the focus on your anger.
A few things to consider - 5 is young for swim lessons especially group lessons. If safety is your primary concern I'd consider doing private sessions to get the safety issues down and return to full on swimming in a year or two. Yes I am sure there are kids that learn at 5 but I just don't get the sense your kid is ready and I don't think mommy and me is really going to offer you what you want.
I also think your kid might not be a enjoy a structed class person at this time. It takes a long time for some kids to adjust to these things. I wouldn't push it too much and just do actives that suit his nature. Something like a more free from music class, playgrounds, kid art (not structured art but like finger painting or clay) might just work better. I have a kid who just hated all teams sports from 0-8. We just stopped forcing the issue. He plays them at camp as required but we do no other team sports though I would like him to consider baseball or basket ball since he has a friend there. All his other actives are either solo athletic stuff or not sports at all.
The most frustrating thing to me is that he's not afraid of water at all and loves it. He's just always in some kind of flotation device and that needs to stop eventually. It just may not be this summer. The issue for him is more about the group activity, but I just don't get it.
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Hmm. I can only offer an anecdote here, but I loved the water. LOVED. THE. WATER. Like seriously. I cannot explain it strongly enough. I broke out of the baby pool whenever possible as a kid and tried to remove my swimmies when my mom was in the big pool with me. I was a damn handful. My parents got me stroke lessons at six, which were done in a small heated pool next to the bigger pool.
When the time came to go in the bigger pool and swim the length of it, I simply would not. I cried. I begged not to. I refused to get in. My mom and coach were baffled. They kept asking me to explain what was so different.
But, to my six year old brain, the entire situation was different. I was being taken from my comfort zone and being pulled out of it. For me, it was mostly the deep end of the pool. I feared (irrationally) that it would suck me down or somehow eat me. It’s not logical, but I believed it so deeply that there was no talking me out of it. I would have said anything at all to get away from the bigger pool in that moment.
In the end, my coach and mom were patient with me. My coach actually got in with me and swam next to me. We compromised and I swam halfway then got to turn around. We did a lot of things to manage my anxiety and their expectations. And in the end, I started competing at 8 years old without a care in the world.
So, in long ass summary, your son may not be able to articulate what he’s afraid of, but it may be something very real to him. Four is still little. I think meeting him where’s he at currently is better than forcing. He’ll get there. I promise!
Post by gretchenindisguise on Jul 12, 2021 15:05:34 GMT -5
We have a place here called swim labs that has those big tub/tank type pools. That helped my kid and a friend’s kiddo feel more comfortable before they transitioned back into the regular pool.
The next place we went only does private/semi-private, that worked really well too.
Post by freshsqueezed on Jul 12, 2021 17:55:06 GMT -5
I just want to chime in to say that this is no measure of how he will be in school. My son is very much like this. However, in school he is 100% a different person. He avoids groups, complains of too many people, and has a hard time warming up to activities. When it comes to school he is a model child and they tell me he is a leader in the classroom and so kind and helpful. I do not know this child that attends school but I hope he shows up one day at home LOL.
I have really learned to roll with it and if you can that might help you in these public situations. I have learned that pushing anything just ends up getting both of us frustrated. I just slowly work with him and have no f*cks to give what anyone else thinks because I do what I gotta do to get him to where he needs to be. It is hard to get to that point but really I am better mentally when we do things now with this attitude.
It goes against all your instincts, but you have to give zero fucks or make him believe you do!
Giving zero fucks combined with good framing (like a pp said - tell him what is expected and what it will be like), plus maturity, is life changing. It’s HARD. It’s a long game. I have cried about wasting so much money and gotten SO MAD. At 4-5 we had a lot of fails. I do believe it’s important to have non-negotiables - for us it’s that if DS asks to do it, he has to try and can’t just hide behind me the whole time. He can warm up or just observe for 1 class, but lately he doesn’t do that. He really matured in K.
We held off on swim this summer (newly 6) and are just focusing on fun and water safety (following pool rules, obey the lifeguard, ask before getting in the water, weather/hazards). I hope to start lessons in the late fall when he will “miss” the pool as a way to make it more fun.
beerlover , is he clingy in other ways? does he struggle regularly in new situations and around new people? I just wonder if he gets overwhelmed around new people and new situations. A few ideas, what about if he just goes to swim class and he gets to sit and watch? Yes, it would sort of be a waste of time, but on the other hand, he may just be a kid who needs more time to warm up to new situations. Or what about private lessons? I have a kid like this and what I find is that no matter how much i reason or beg, it does not matter if he is not ready to do whatever the activity it is. So we start small. Some times we would just let him watch and work up to participating. Some times making a big deal about an upcoming event makes it worse and causes him more anxiety. And at age 4, if he isn't comfortable doing these activities, don't sweat it, don't force him. (and FWIW, there are always kids in the 4-5 age bracket who struggle separating, i promise this wasn't a big deal to any other parent or the instructor). Keep in mind, given that you said you struggle with anxiety, that he may also have anxiety and that is contributing to him not wanting to do these activities. It may not be something he is able to reason through or understand at his age. And FWIW, my kid who has had this issue is 100% fine at school. Its just outside of school/social type stuff that he has had issues with in the past.
Not usually. Sometimes if we walk into a family party with a ton of people he'll be a little clingy but otherwise, no. He doesn't cling to me at the park or pool or lake or anywhere else.
He does not stop moving enough to sit and watch a swim lesson, lol. We did watch for awhile today when he refused to participate and he commented that he could do most things that they were doing (floating, blowing bubbles, jumping in, etc), which was true.
You're right that he may also struggle with anxiety since I do! We're such different personalities so that really did not occur to me, honestly.
Or, maybe he just hates being instructed by anyone and told what to do, lol.
freshsqueezed and rebneen, the zero fucks approach is the exact one I need to take, and I am SO BAD at this. I give way too many fucks. I need to start working on my acting skills lol. But I know that's exactly what happened today; I got frustrated and he could tell, and just fed off of that.
If anyone has any suggestions for reading material on how to give less fucks I'm all ears lol.
First off this is super common and not a reflection of your parenting at all!
When my kid is getting worked up and defiant I find stepping away and finding an area away from everyone really helps both of us. I don't feel so judged as a parent, and I assume she feels better as well. Once we're alone I can be more calm and figure out what is really going on which diffuses the situation.
I'd also go over what is happening and the expectation ahead of time. Like in the morning, before leaving, and before getting out of the car when you get there. Not hyping it that it's super fun and so great, but just that you have swimming lessons today and will be getting in the pool. You don't have to swim or do anything that you're not comfortable with, but do have to listen and at least sit on the stair or whatever you want the minimum to be. Sometimes for kids when something is really hyped up to be good it can create more anxiety then if it's just stated as a fact. If that makes sense?
I said my kids didn’t do this at swim- did at other places, but I forgot about the time we did mommy and me and DD was about 2 and she got out to jump and she turned and took off running. I was super self-conscious in my bathing suit and randomly I was in counseling and my counselor was in the class with her son. I just was like wiling DD to come back with my “powers” but it was a big no. She never got back in that class! Said the pool was too cold. She did get in and stay in the next week.
My daughter was in swim lessons for at least two years and once in a while this was her. She was definitely not afraid of the water, she knew her coach, knew the other kids in her class, etc. I'm not really sure why she did it, but it was so frustrating when it happened. When I handled it well (in my opinion), we would sit together near the pool and just watch the other kids. I would tell her that if she didn't want to do the lesson that was fine, but she wouldn't be doing anything else. I would point out how the other kids were having fun and she wasn't. She always ended up doing at least part of the lesson (our lessons were only 30 minutes and sometimes it was 20+ minutes before she would get in... So annoying).
I would have absolutely reminded your son that a condition of getting the toy was good listening and participation in lessons and at this point I would stick to that and not get the toy. I would go back tomorrow and try again and offer a smaller incentive for participation. I would have also taken away screen time as that is a reward for good behavior and making me waste money and time on a swim lesson isn't good behavior. I didn't read every response carefully, but I know others commented on that so I wanted you to know you aren't the only one that would have done those things. Everyone parents differently.
I also want to agree with another poster that 5 is way too old for Mommy and me. My daughter was doing lessons on her own as a 2 year old. Everywhere I've been the oldest age for that to be an option is 3. I would go back to the normal lesson tomorrow. Tell your son that he doesn't have to participate, but he will sit there and watch the entire lesson either way. I wouldn't want to set the future precedent that if my kid doesn't want to do something she just has to behave very poorly and she will get her way. Like I said though, everyone parents differently.
You were in a very frustrating situation and dealt with it the best you could. I hope that future lessons go smoother for you.
daisyduck, yes, that's what I should have done, not forced it and told him he could just watch, but I wrecked it all by getting frustrated immediately and wanting to burn it all down. I am not getting him the toy and we did take away all tech for tonight.
al dente, I may have hyped it up too much yeah. I don't think I went overboard, but I did tell him I was excited that he would get to learn how to swim like a big kid without his floatie like some of his older friends, etc. Maybe I should have downplayed it more.
I already switched to the other lessons for next week and I'm not going back to the lessons tomorrow because I made the decision and plus I'm mortified and want to stay away from the pool for a few days, lol. It's only 4 days of lessons. If he didn't do anything for an entire 1 day out of 4 I don't know if I see the point in trying again tomorrow. To clarify again, it was the lead swim teacher who suggested bumping down to mommy & me so its really not that uncommon at this pool, all they have is mommy & me until age 4 and then 5 and up is regular lessons, but now I guess I'm going to be self conscious about this too lol. I can message the teacher ahead of time since I know her, and if she thinks its inappropriate I'll reassess.
daisyduck, yes, that's what I should have done, not forced it and told him he could just watch, but I wrecked it all by getting frustrated immediately and wanting to burn it all down. I am not getting him the toy and we did take away all tech for tonight.
al dente, I may have hyped it up too much yeah. I don't think I went overboard, but I did tell him I was excited that he would get to learn how to swim like a big kid without his floatie like some of his older friends, etc. Maybe I should have downplayed it more.
I already switched to the other lessons for next week and I'm not going back to the lessons tomorrow because I made the decision and plus I'm mortified and want to stay away from the pool for a few days, lol. It's only 4 days of lessons. If he didn't do anything for an entire 1 day out of 4 I don't know if I see the point in trying again tomorrow. To clarify again, it was the lead swim teacher who suggested bumping down to mommy & me so its really not that uncommon at this pool, all they have is mommy & me until age 4 and then 5 and up is regular lessons, but now I guess I'm going to be self conscious about this too lol. I can message the teacher ahead of time since I know her, and if she thinks its inappropriate I'll reassess.
If this pool routinely does Mommy and me up to age 4, the lessons might be more advanced than what I'm used to seeing. I'd probably call and confirm since internet strangers have made you worry, but I'm sure they know what they are doing.
1) DS2 is 4 and while he is greatly enjoying the swim lessons we have him in, I do not think he is emotionally mature enough to handle the instruction or the complexities of swimming (arms, legs, breathing). DS1 (6) is doing much, much better. However, he is having a great time diving to the bottom of the pool, trying to swim, etc. and the lessons have made him SO much more comfortable in the water.
2) Instead of group lessons, we found a college-age guy who coaches one of the neighborhood swim teams. It's just him and our two kids. And because he's a younger guy, they're obsessed with him and love to show off. I think it being just them and with a coach they really like has made a huge difference in DS2's desire to participate. Is something like that an option for you guys? We found him via Nextdoor. It's actually cheaper than another swim coach I wanted to sign them up with (but she wasn't covid vaxxed, eye roll) and comparable to the various swim schools around here.
beerlover idk if it works for everyone, but I dig deep into my empathy for him and that he needs me to be his calm adult. Often my DS can’t express his emotions and reasoning in the moment but we have revisited and he’ll offer a logical explanation if we discuss it with curiosity. Also, distance his actions from your parenting. Kids have a lot of emotional needs that they are shitty at expressing, especially at age 5. It has nothing to do with you as a parent. He is wired to do this stuff.
Can you do something like offer a choice to return to the next class and participate or go back and try again next year? TBH, giving him some control to choose what’s likely to happen anyway is really good for him. He will mature SO MUCH over the year and you just remind him ahead of time that he chose to do it and that’s what’s happening when the time comes and have a consequence for not doing whatever the minimum is (getting feet wet, listening, whatever).
This is tough. You've gotten good advice. I would look into private lessons. At this point, I think you'll get the most bang for buck doing that. How many kids are in the class?
It seems that he's got the right exposure to the water and when he wants to, he'll probably learn very quickly.
IME, learning to swim is akin to potty training. Once you've made it a battle, you've already lost. I too suck at not making it a battle. So I outsourced it completely. My DD learned at a indoor pool where she could touch the bottom and she couldn't see me. Plus just lots of exposure to the water with and without floaties.
He's still young and can get away with the floatie for a couple of years depending on size. Eventually he will outgrow it and that will be the end of that.
He will learn someday. Rome wasn't built in a day. It may just take him longer than other kids.
I know I am late replying to this, and I have not read all the replies, so this may have already been said... My girls were (sort of still are) like this. I am their "person" and they cling to me for comfort. If we think this type of thing might happen, I will have DH take them and I will not be there at all. They do not cling to him in the same way and the chance of them leaving their "comfort" zone goes way up if I am out of the picture.
Post by starburst604 on Jul 13, 2021 8:14:49 GMT -5
At that age my DD was just about the same. Two years later she’s a brave and strong swimmer. For us, private lessons made the difference. She just did not do well in the group classes and acted a lot like you described, it was super frustrating for us. One on one built up her confidence and then she was fine in larger groups swimming. In general, once she turned 5 it was like a switch flipped as far as her being a stage 5 clinger. Every activity was a disaster with her before that but now she does soccer, hockey, swim with zero hesitation or clinging.
My kid wasn't wild about group swim lessons. I ended up going to the private athletic club and doing private lessons. He got assigned a 17 year old male lifeguard who worked summers teaching kids at an Easter Seals Camp and was something of a Kid Whisperer. It wasn't inexpensive, but worked out cheaper than group lessons.
Thanks again, everyone, for taking the time to provide such thoughtful feedback. I'm still a little bummed about how yesterday went and how I handled it, but you've all given me a lot of great suggestions and things to try in the future.
We'll see how the parent/child lessons go next week. I'm also going to start trying to work with him without a floatie at the pool on occasion to get him used to it. I'm sure being a lifeguard 20 years ago qualifies me to at least do that, lol.
Private lessons may be the way to go and I'm sure my H can find a kid on the swim team who wants some extra money.
I'm still concerned how he'll do in soccer but since that's in the evenings I can get H involved as well, and it may be a little easier for me to hide from DS at a soccer field lol.
Just an amusing note that I took DS to the pool last night just for fun, and he behaved amazingly and had THE BEST time jumping in and out and playing with some other kids. The lifeguards were all laughing and amused that he refused to get in the pool for swim lessons but clearly has no issues with the actual water lol. So I do think his issue is more about being in a group with unfamiliar people and maybe about having to perform for others. We'll work on it!
this is so common and no reflection of you as a parent. It makes me think of the tv show "I'm Sorry" where the mom signs her little kid of for ballet because the kid begged. Then once ballet started she just 100% observed because she did not want to participate. And mom just let her. IT was a running joke through the show, but it is also relatable.
I remember when S was 2.5 we did a parent and me gymnastics. He was AWFUL at following directions and would just not participate in the group. I was always chasing him around to get him from going on the trampolines or balance beams when we were supposed to be doing something else. He just would not listen. After one class, no less than 3 different parents came up to me after watching me struggle and said "we have been there," or "don't worry, there is always a kid like that." It made me feel better.
I did not read all the responses. I just wanted to commiserate. My third child was like this. Swimming lessons, over multiple attempts, were an absolute nightmare. I tried everything. Bribing, timeouts, threatening, sympathizing, getting in the water, everything. She did better with lessons after taking a break and starting over at a new place, but she still absolutely would not jump in or put her face in the water. This summer we tried again and she finally put her face in and “went under” bc her little sister did it!!! That is what finally worked.
In hindsight, I think she had some serious anxiety about the pool for some reason that I never understood. She has turned out to be anxious about some other things, too. It seemed to work better moving to a small pool, instead of the huge pool at the Y. Good luck!