I’m currently looking for data that suggests that masks really protect the wearer from Covid. If anyone sees anything, can you please post it? All I’m coming up with is the same, “You wear a mask for others, not for yourself” and “Reduces spread by catching droplets/particles (from the infected) from spreading as far.” And if that continues to be the case, there’s just really not much benefit to my kids being the only ones who wear masks in the classroom. They’d be taking the social/emotional hits without getting the protection from the virus. And until they’re vaccinated, School will be one of their only places with significant potential for exposure.
No data, but my thought from the beginning was if this piece of fabric is over your face and protects you one way, why wouldn't it protect you the other way. It's the same piece of fabric. So yes, it does protect the wearer from droplets.
However, I think the point of what the CDC was originally saying is that if someone is sick and doesn't know it, and they wear a mask, then they won't spread it to others. That is why the other person wearing a mask protects you because they are sick, and you are not in that scenario. But your masks still protects from droplets from other people.
Hopefully that explanation makes sense.
But really, I probably will send my kids without the mask since it is only recommended now and not required by the school district. I haven't fully decided what to do yet, but the social aspect does seem a lot to put on them after everything else they have been through this year. I do have thoughts of consulting their doctors first because they do have health conditions. However, when I consulted their doctors before, the doctors were not concerned for them, but for them bringing the virus back to their parents. This was back in August 2020, so parents were not vaccinated yet.
I will say if cases get super high, then I will have them mask again.
Also in MA and I feel like it depends on the place. Masks are still required at summer camp and daycare. When I pick DD1 up at summer camp, I do see a lot of masks on chins/under noses and no one seems to say anything. It sucks, especially since with the crappy weather they have been inside a lot. But at least they are required. We've taken the kids to 2 museums this summer and one had masks required for everyone (including adults, which I liked), the other was optional for adults but required for kids and I don't remember seeing any unmasked kids. Stores are where I see it about 50:50 on kids. My kids still wear masks anywhere inside. I don't always wear mine (since I'm vaxxed), it depends on how crowded it is and whether I'm feeling anxious about the Delta variant at the time (LOL sort of).
They haven't made an announcement on masks for our district yet (probably waiting for the state guidance). I really hope they keep the mask mandate for the elementary schools. No kids in that age group will be eligible for the vaccine when school starts, so I can't see how they could drop it. My teacher friend said they have already said school will be back to "normal" otherwise in the fall, but she hadn't heard anything about masking yet.
Was on the north shore, South Shore, and Merrimack valley regions as recent as last week. If people were wearing masks it was children but inside or outside I saw so few masks that it stood out when you saw someone wearing one. Went to historic sites and art museums, stores, etc. Maybe it was just the heat that lowered mask wearing, but I can't imagine as a teacher even trying to fight the mask fight right now. Plus I'm hearing differing things in the news (one site reporting no deaths, another reporting deaths of vaccinated people). I'm still carrying hand sanitizer with me but that is nothing new.
Oh, I don't wear a mask outside at all anymore! And I only expect kids to wear masks inside (and unvaxxed adults I hope). Almost 75% of adults in MA are fully vaccinated already and about 60% of kids 12+. We're very lucky and I'm so glad the vaccine uptake is so high here.
My oldest will be in 4th grade and she says she wants to keep wearing her mask at school even though it will likely be optional and it's likely most kids will not be masked. If delta wasn't surging here and we didn't have trips planned for Labor Day weekend and fall break I'd be less concerned but I don't want my kids to get quarantined and have it disrupt those plans. I'm not super worried about them getting COVID.
Very curious to see what our district decides about everything though. They are under a lot of pressure.
We don't start school until after Labor day so I have no clue but answered on how I think it will go. The district is offering summer enrichment camps. DD did one at the end of June and everyone was masked on the bus, in the classroom, and hallways, DD said they could take it off when they went outside but she didn't. She is doing farm camp next month and it is a mix of indoor outdoor tight space activities. She already said she will be wearing her mask 100% of the time.
The public seems to be putting pressure on all the local districts to not make the kids wear a mask. It is too soon to tell what September will bring. I will say the latest numbers out are similar to when the governor shut us all down in May. The state officially opened without restrictions on June 30th.
Also in MA and I feel like it depends on the place. Masks are still required at summer camp and daycare. When I pick DD1 up at summer camp, I do see a lot of masks on chins/under noses and no one seems to say anything. It sucks, especially since with the crappy weather they have been inside a lot. But at least they are required. We've taken the kids to 2 museums this summer and one had masks required for everyone (including adults, which I liked), the other was optional for adults but required for kids and I don't remember seeing any unmasked kids. Stores are where I see it about 50:50 on kids. My kids still wear masks anywhere inside. I don't always wear mine (since I'm vaxxed), it depends on how crowded it is and whether I'm feeling anxious about the Delta variant at the time (LOL sort of).
They haven't made an announcement on masks for our district yet (probably waiting for the state guidance). I really hope they keep the mask mandate for the elementary schools. No kids in that age group will be eligible for the vaccine when school starts, so I can't see how they could drop it. My teacher friend said they have already said school will be back to "normal" otherwise in the fall, but she hadn't heard anything about masking yet.
Was on the north shore, South Shore, and Merrimack valley regions as recent as last week. If people were wearing masks it was children but inside or outside I saw so few masks that it stood out when you saw someone wearing one. Went to historic sites and art museums, stores, etc. Maybe it was just the heat that lowered mask wearing, but I can't imagine as a teacher even trying to fight the mask fight right now. Plus I'm hearing differing things in the news (one site reporting no deaths, another reporting deaths of vaccinated people). I'm still carrying hand sanitizer with me but that is nothing new.
klassygoosey,imimahoney, I have to retract my previous statment. I have been out and about the last two days (have some time off). Most people are not wearing masks. I went to the local huge furniture store (contains a restaurant, ice cream counter and a movie theater). My just turned 12 year old was the only kid wearing a mask. There were plenty of young kids running around maskless. Ugh!
Was on the north shore, South Shore, and Merrimack valley regions as recent as last week. If people were wearing masks it was children but inside or outside I saw so few masks that it stood out when you saw someone wearing one. Went to historic sites and art museums, stores, etc. Maybe it was just the heat that lowered mask wearing, but I can't imagine as a teacher even trying to fight the mask fight right now. Plus I'm hearing differing things in the news (one site reporting no deaths, another reporting deaths of vaccinated people). I'm still carrying hand sanitizer with me but that is nothing new.
klassygoosey,imimahoney, I have to retract my previous statment. I have been out and about the last two days (have some time off). Most people are not wearing masks. I went to the local huge furniture store (contains a restaurant, ice cream counter and a movie theater). My just turned 12 year old was the only kid wearing a mask. There were plenty of young kids running around maskless. Ugh!
You were in my town! Assuming you were north of the city. And yes, masks are rare. Although at Target today I did see more than I normally do.
It's funny because this area was so hardcore about masking and following the covid rules but as soon as Baker lifted the mandate, everyone was all see ya! I mean, I'm fully vaxd and I mostly stopped wearing a mask but I still make my kids anywhere indoors.
Our district is planning on masks being optional unless something drastic changes. Which translates to my kids not wearing masks if they have the choice and teachers aren't enforcing it. I make them mask up in stores and indoor places when I'm with them and it's not a big deal. But I know that when they get to school and most other kids are not masking, they won't keep them on consistently.
klassygoosey ,imimahoney , I have to retract my previous statment. I have been out and about the last two days (have some time off). Most people are not wearing masks. I went to the local huge furniture store (contains a restaurant, ice cream counter and a movie theater). My just turned 12 year old was the only kid wearing a mask. There were plenty of young kids running around maskless. Ugh!
You were in my town! Assuming you were north of the city. And yes, masks are rare. Although at Target today I did see more than I normally do.
It's funny because this area was so hardcore about masking and following the covid rules but as soon as Baker lifted the mandate, everyone was all see ya! I mean, I'm fully vaxd and I mostly stopped wearing a mask but I still make my kids anywhere indoors.
I have been here for 15 years now, have 3 kids in school, and I am a town meeting member, but I still feel like a newcomer. A majority of my neighbors were born here!
We haven't received any updates about masks from the superintendent, though I know they are planning to reopen full time, in person only.
If masks aren't required at least at the elementary level, we will strongly consider unenrolling him.
I’m considering unenrolling too. Im looking at online school right now and just crying. I thought there was a light at the end of the tunnel.
My fully vaccinated friend just tested positive with the delta variant and is pretty darn sick. I can’t send my kids into a school where no one is wearing masks. I can’t have my kids eat lunch inside surrounded by kids. My oldest has freaking asthma and in a normal year already ends up super sick.
Mine will wear a mask indoors until she is vaccinated including school. They will not be required by our district.
I think it’s very easy to say I’ll let them be unmasked at school when it’s July and numbers are low. That will contribute to the fall surge when kids are packed into classrooms again.
We haven't heard anything yet about what school will do in fall, but it's still 2 months away so I think a lot can change between now and then anyways. My kids are in daycamp where masks are optional, and we have told them to wear them indoors, but it's hard to tell if they're actually doing it consistently. They also do indoor swimming, where they obviously can't mask, so I do question how effective bothering with masks the rest of the time is. Parents and kids wear them at drop off/pick up, so I know all the kids should have masks with them, and I do know my kids are not the only kids wearing them. It's hard when it's optional because there is no one to remind them or enforce it. But, if they're optional at school in the fall then we'll still tell our kids to wear them.
I'm also worried about the aftercare issue. Pre-COVID my kids bussed to an offsite aftercare (there is no on-site option) that serves 3 elementary schools. We were able to just not use aftercare last year due to COVID-related work from home agreements. We've paid deposits to hold our spots in our old aftercare, but the idea of the extra exposure makes me feel ill. I'm considering trying to hire somebody to come to the house instead.
Post by icedcoffee on Jul 15, 2021 15:01:29 GMT -5
They better be required at my daycare. They are required this summer while covid numbers are incredibly low, enrollment in daycare is super low and it's hot as shit. If they are requiring them under these circumstances and then remove the requirement in the fall when all the other illnesses come out to play I will be super annoyed.
FWIW--I think they should have dropped the mask requirement for summer at my particular location, but I am very pro it in the fall/winter.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Jul 16, 2021 9:44:05 GMT -5
Not exactly school, but homeschool coop finally released their COVID policies for the fall and will be requiring masks indoors (and outdoors for activities where 3 feet of distance cannot be maintained). I am so relieved. We've already paid our deposit and DD is so excited for it, but I was very afraid they wouldn't be requiring masks, in which case I was planning to pull her. The policy is still subject to change, and we don't even start until September, but I'm very pleased they are willing to take this stand now, when it seems like everyone is dropping masks right and left.
I’m currently looking for data that suggests that masks really protect the wearer from Covid. If anyone sees anything, can you please post it? All I’m coming up with is the same, “You wear a mask for others, not for yourself” and “Reduces spread by catching droplets/particles (from the infected) from spreading as far.” And if that continues to be the case, there’s just really not much benefit to my kids being the only ones who wear masks in the classroom. They’d be taking the social/emotional hits without getting the protection from the virus. And until they’re vaccinated, School will be one of their only places with significant potential for exposure.
No data, but my thought from the beginning was if this piece of fabric is over your face and protects you one way, why wouldn't it protect you the other way. It's the same piece of fabric. So yes, it does protect the wearer from droplets.
However, I think the point of what the CDC was originally saying is that if someone is sick and doesn't know it, and they wear a mask, then they won't spread it to others. That is why the other person wearing a mask protects you because they are sick, and you are not in that scenario. But your masks still protects from droplets from other people.
Hopefully that explanation makes sense.
But really, I probably will send my kids without the mask since it is only recommended now and not required by the school district. I haven't fully decided what to do yet, but the social aspect does seem a lot to put on them after everything else they have been through this year. I do have thoughts of consulting their doctors first because they do have health conditions. However, when I consulted their doctors before, the doctors were not concerned for them, but for them bringing the virus back to their parents. This was back in August 2020, so parents were not vaccinated yet.
I will say if cases get super high, then I will have them mask again.
I’ll admit that I tuned out to a lot of the science and news earlier this year but that was not my understanding of how masks work. It’s not equal both ways.
What I understood about the infected person’s mask is that it disrupts the flow of germs as they leave your mouth and nose. So instead of them spraying directly out they go to the sides and down - not directly at another person.
Also it helps to decrease the size of the droplets (nothing giant goes flying out) but what I referenced above is why it protects others but not yourself.
That being said masks are just one layer of the many things we should be doing to protect ourselves. I really connected with the Swiss cheese model I saw earlier in the pandemic. Unfortunately so many of the layers are gone now, and that little “misinformation mouse” has done a lot of chewing in the last few months.
Again I haven’t kept up on the science recently since my kids are home anyway and we wear masks in the few places we go. So it’s possible the science has changed.
Here is the Swiss cheese model that I’m referring to if you’re not familiar. If you read through each layer they are pretty much all gone now with schools reopening “as usual” in the fall.
I’ll admit that I tuned out to a lot of the science and news earlier this year but that was not my understanding of how masks work. It’s not equal both ways.
What I understood about the infected person’s mask is that it disrupts the flow of germs as they leave your mouth and nose. So instead of them spraying directly out they go to the sides and down - not directly at another person.
Also it helps to decrease the size of the droplets (nothing giant goes flying out) but what I referenced above is why it protects others but not yourself.
That being said masks are just one layer of the many things we should be doing to protect ourselves. I really connected with the Swiss cheese model I saw earlier in the pandemic. Unfortunately so many of the layers are gone now, and that little “misinformation mouse” has done a lot of chewing in the last few months.
Again I haven’t kept up on the science recently since my kids are home anyway and we wear masks in the few places we go. So it’s possible the science has changed.
I understood the purpose of masks the same way. I've been looking for actual articles & data to suggest that it also works the other way, but I just haven't seen it yet. Masks are our last layer of the Swiss Cheese analogy left, and I'm just trying to figure out if the benefits actually outweigh the cost. No one is social distancing anymore (though DS1 says that their percussion instruments are 6' away from each other), there are no plans to continue distancing once school starts. My boys are 8 & 10. I'm not hanging any hope on them washing their hands with great frequency. Because they were home over the last year, they don't have the habit of washing hands before/after everything (unless we've been out somewhere). They'll wash their hands after using the bathroom and hopefully before eating, but that's probably it.
I'm hoping the science has changed, but I just can't find anything other than non-medical people giving their opinions on it.
I feel like the anti mask crowd won here. Schools aren’t requiring them and stopped the last 2 weeks of school. I sent my son in one but he took it off in class bc no one else wore them. Now he in summer camp and they say they require them indoors but I see photos and have been there and no one is masked. At a certain point, I don’t have control anymore when he is not with me. It sucks. We have high vaxx rates so that’s the only thing that eases my mind.
I’ll admit that I tuned out to a lot of the science and news earlier this year but that was not my understanding of how masks work. It’s not equal both ways.
What I understood about the infected person’s mask is that it disrupts the flow of germs as they leave your mouth and nose. So instead of them spraying directly out they go to the sides and down - not directly at another person.
Also it helps to decrease the size of the droplets (nothing giant goes flying out) but what I referenced above is why it protects others but not yourself.
That being said masks are just one layer of the many things we should be doing to protect ourselves. I really connected with the Swiss cheese model I saw earlier in the pandemic. Unfortunately so many of the layers are gone now, and that little “misinformation mouse” has done a lot of chewing in the last few months.
Again I haven’t kept up on the science recently since my kids are home anyway and we wear masks in the few places we go. So it’s possible the science has changed.
I understood the purpose of masks the same way. I've been looking for actual articles & data to suggest that it also works the other way, but I just haven't seen it yet. Masks are our last layer of the Swiss Cheese analogy left, and I'm just trying to figure out if the benefits actually outweigh the cost. No one is social distancing anymore (though DS1 says that their percussion instruments are 6' away from each other), there are no plans to continue distancing once school starts. My boys are 8 & 10. I'm not hanging any hope on them washing their hands with great frequency. Because they were home over the last year, they don't have the habit of washing hands before/after everything (unless we've been out somewhere). They'll wash their hands after using the bathroom and hopefully before eating, but that's probably it. I'm hoping the science has changed, but I just can't find anything other than non-medical people giving their opinions on it.
Here is a link to a post from Dear Pandemic (run by a group of scientists) from yesterday covering the science of how wearing a well fitted mask can still protect kids even if those around them don’t. Hope this helps 🙂 dearpandemic.org/kids-protection-from-masks/
I'm hoping the science has changed, but I just can't find anything other than non-medical people giving their opinions on it.
Here is a link to a post from Dear Pandemic (run by a group of scientists) from yesterday covering the science of how wearing a well fitted mask can still protect kids even if those around them don’t. Hope this helps 🙂 dearpandemic.org/kids-protection-from-masks/
Thank you! That's actually VERY helpful!
My oldest has preferred to wear the disposable ones lately, but we haven't been tying them on the sides. I'll try doing that and see how he likes it. I really hate all of the trash that it would create. You just can't win. I'm going to do some research into the filters to see what is currently being recommended. Ours currently are just double layer cotton, I think. They have a nice fit (a little "pocket" for the chin, which helps tremendously), but I'm not sure of their filtration effectiveness. When no other precautions are being taken and few other kids will be wearing them, I feel like mask effectiveness is more important than ever.
No data, but my thought from the beginning was if this piece of fabric is over your face and protects you one way, why wouldn't it protect you the other way. It's the same piece of fabric. So yes, it does protect the wearer from droplets.
However, I think the point of what the CDC was originally saying is that if someone is sick and doesn't know it, and they wear a mask, then they won't spread it to others. That is why the other person wearing a mask protects you because they are sick, and you are not in that scenario. But your masks still protects from droplets from other people.
Hopefully that explanation makes sense.
But really, I probably will send my kids without the mask since it is only recommended now and not required by the school district. I haven't fully decided what to do yet, but the social aspect does seem a lot to put on them after everything else they have been through this year. I do have thoughts of consulting their doctors first because they do have health conditions. However, when I consulted their doctors before, the doctors were not concerned for them, but for them bringing the virus back to their parents. This was back in August 2020, so parents were not vaccinated yet.
I will say if cases get super high, then I will have them mask again.
I’ll admit that I tuned out to a lot of the science and news earlier this year but that was not my understanding of how masks work. It’s not equal both ways.
What I understood about the infected person’s mask is that it disrupts the flow of germs as they leave your mouth and nose. So instead of them spraying directly out they go to the sides and down - not directly at another person.
Also it helps to decrease the size of the droplets (nothing giant goes flying out) but what I referenced above is why it protects others but not yourself.
That being said masks are just one layer of the many things we should be doing to protect ourselves. I really connected with the Swiss cheese model I saw earlier in the pandemic. Unfortunately so many of the layers are gone now, and that little “misinformation mouse” has done a lot of chewing in the last few months.
Again I haven’t kept up on the science recently since my kids are home anyway and we wear masks in the few places we go. So it’s possible the science has changed.
I disagree with this. From the beginning us in the medical profession were trying to hunt down masks to protect ourselves based on what we know. I’m on my phone right now so will try to link some articles later!
I’ll admit that I tuned out to a lot of the science and news earlier this year but that was not my understanding of how masks work. It’s not equal both ways.
What I understood about the infected person’s mask is that it disrupts the flow of germs as they leave your mouth and nose. So instead of them spraying directly out they go to the sides and down - not directly at another person.
Also it helps to decrease the size of the droplets (nothing giant goes flying out) but what I referenced above is why it protects others but not yourself.
That being said masks are just one layer of the many things we should be doing to protect ourselves. I really connected with the Swiss cheese model I saw earlier in the pandemic. Unfortunately so many of the layers are gone now, and that little “misinformation mouse” has done a lot of chewing in the last few months.
Again I haven’t kept up on the science recently since my kids are home anyway and we wear masks in the few places we go. So it’s possible the science has changed.
I disagree with this. From the beginning us in the medical profession were trying to hunt down masks to protect ourselves based on what we know. I’m on my phone right now so will try to link some articles later!
Thank you that would be great. I was under the impression that only the higher grade masks (n95 and the like) were able to offer really good protection to the un-infected wearer. Would love to hear the info!
When I read through this My takeaway is that a fabric mask (which is what kids are wearing to school) is better at protecting others than the wearer - “ A cloth mask is intended to trap respiratory droplets that are released when the wearer talks, coughs or sneezes. It also acts as a barrier to protect the wearer from inhaling droplets released by others.”
And the medical type masks protect both the wearer and others - “Also called surgical masks, these are loosefitting disposable masks. They're meant to protect the wearer from contact with droplets and sprays that may contain germs. A medical mask also filters out large particles in the air when the wearer breathes in.”
“ An N95 mask is a type of respirator. It offers more protection than a medical mask does because it filters out both large and small particles when the wearer inhales.”
In addition, I feel like kids in general do a pretty poor job of following the guidelines for how to wear masks - Proper use, storage and cleaning of masks also affects how well they protect you. Follow these steps for putting on and taking off your mask:
Wash or sanitize your hands before and after putting on your mask. Place your mask over your mouth and nose and chin. Tie it behind your head or use ear loops. Make sure it's snug. Don't touch your mask while wearing it. If you accidentally touch your mask, wash or sanitize your hands. If your mask becomes wet or dirty, switch to a clean one. Put the used mask in a sealable bag until you can get rid of it or wash it. Remove the mask by untying it or lifting off the ear loops without touching the front of the mask or your face. Wash your hands immediately after removing your mask.
So it doesn’t feel super helpful to have a class full of kids not wearing a mask, and one kid wearing one but it’s better than nothing!!
But I realize you are a medical professional and I am not!!! So my feelings are based on little more than impression and worry.
Can I ask a really behind question? My kids were virtual all last year so they wore cloth masks when necessary, but mainly stayed out of public places. Since we will be going back in about a month and they will be the only ones wearing masks, I would like to offer them the chance to wear a better mask.
Does anyone know of a reputable source for kid kf94 (since n95 are technically adult sized)? Or a good kid sized medical grade mask? I teach big people and have a good supply of KN95 left for me (bought off a doctor’s wife who had imported them before everything went to hell), but those are technically too big for me so my kids would swim in them.
Cases in my area are rising (we are averaging over 45 cases per 100K per day for the last week) and I haven’t seen a mask on a kid (except mine) since May. Thanks!
Can I ask a really behind question? My kids were virtual all last year so they wore cloth masks when necessary, but mainly stayed out of public places. Since we will be going back in about a month and they will be the only ones wearing masks, I would like to offer them the chance to wear a better mask.
Does anyone know of a reputable source for kid kf94 (since n95 are technically adult sized)? Or a good kid sized medical grade mask? I teach big people and have a good supply of KN95 left for me (bought off a doctor’s wife who had imported them before everything went to hell), but those are technically too big for me so my kids would swim in them.
Cases in my area are rising (we are averaging over 45 cases per 100K per day for the last week) and I haven’t seen a mask on a kid (except mine) since May. Thanks!
From what I researched, Be Healthy is a reputable distributer of KF94 masks.
We use these for DS. I like that they have adjustable ear loops:
Can I ask a really behind question? My kids were virtual all last year so they wore cloth masks when necessary, but mainly stayed out of public places. Since we will be going back in about a month and they will be the only ones wearing masks, I would like to offer them the chance to wear a better mask.
Does anyone know of a reputable source for kid kf94 (since n95 are technically adult sized)? Or a good kid sized medical grade mask? I teach big people and have a good supply of KN95 left for me (bought off a doctor’s wife who had imported them before everything went to hell), but those are technically too big for me so my kids would swim in them.
Cases in my area are rising (we are averaging over 45 cases per 100K per day for the last week) and I haven’t seen a mask on a kid (except mine) since May. Thanks!
I got these KN95 masks for DD. The site says they are good for kids 3+, but I think they would probably be too big for that age - DD is 7 and they just barely fit her well, so depending on your kids’ ages, they may or may not work.