Post by Velar Fricative on Jul 13, 2021 15:47:38 GMT -5
Just wanted to start a regular non-@ covid thread.
I’m getting jittery about breakthrough cases. I continue to tell myself they are still rare, but rarity means nothing if you’re the one infected (I’m not, just speaking in general). I just have to keep hanging onto the fact that it is super duper effective against hospitalization and death. But still, with local uptick in cases and reading seemingly more about breakthrough cases, I’m getting nervous again. This is why I wanted to do so much socializing I’m burning a hole in my wallet, because I had a feeling this might happen.
Please post any and all articles that will make me feel better. Or don’t, because if it’s not great news then I don’t want to dig my head in the sand either.
I am getting my first vaccine tomorrow after my mammo but I won't stop wearing my mask. Am in NJ but in my town, no-one is wearing a mask and it is like old times. Also most people have been asked to go back to work after Labor Day and how will that even work? As soon as there is a break through case, am sure everyone will be sent home again. I feel like we're in a never ending battle even with vaccines because this is all still so new.
I am still feeling okay with Covid for myself. I assume I will get Covid at some point but I do trust my vaccine to keep me from getting super sick. Breakthrough cases are going to happen. It's going to seem like a huge amount based on the percentages but it's really not. To me it's reassuring that none of the recent deaths have been among the vaccinated. They are doing their jobs we just need to adjust our expectations of what they can do.
As of July 12 my employer no longer requires masks for fully vaccinated employees which I am fine with. However they aren’t requiring proof of vaccination so there are several people who have been very outspoken about being anti-vax that are strutting around with masks on.
I am not too worried for myself and my closest loved ones since we are all vaccinated and I do trust the science that says that we are much less likely to have a severe case.
I am sad for all of those who cannot yet be vaccinated (both in the U.S. and abroad) and the medical staff who are still having to care for infected people.
Post by 1confused1 on Jul 13, 2021 16:34:19 GMT -5
I just got meeting notifications that all my organizations meetings are back in our conference room. No thanks, I'm not cramming myself in a 15 person conference room with all of them!
Post by suburbanzookeeper on Jul 13, 2021 16:47:25 GMT -5
I had posted in the @ but my husband's station mate is Covid+ despite being fully vaccinated - very mild case so far. Because DH worked closely with him, he's home and has already gone for his Covid test. Now we wait.
I just got meeting notifications that all my organizations meetings are back in our conference room. No thanks, I'm not cramming myself in a 15 person conference room with all of them!
I walked by our conference rooms today, and they were crammed full of people. No thank you. Knowing who was involved with the meeting they probably didn't offer a virtual option. Also, I know for a fact that at least one of the participants isn't vaccinated and wasn't wearing a mask.
Post by breezy8407 on Jul 13, 2021 17:16:13 GMT -5
My employer is also not enforcing masks, and no one wears them. I know 100% not everyone is vaccinated. Usually the in-person meetings I am in are with my team, and I know they are all vaccinated.
So far, I think our new work culture is sticking, where every meeting has some virtual participants (and currently most attendees are virtual). I can only hope this continues because I think we could do great things if all teams became experts at managing and collaborating with hybrid teams.
There are a lot of "old white men" who are fighting against it, but luckily we have enough of the big bosses adapting and setting the example for all. I am thankful every day.
The downside is that this is still TX, and I find myself liking less and less people every day.
Post by penguingrrl on Jul 13, 2021 22:24:01 GMT -5
I went to a concert last night because a relative was performing. There were well over 100 people in the room and the relative and I were the only ones masked. Someone even told me I should relax. I was… not happy.
A breakthrough case could be devastating for my household due to my husband’s health, so I still have to take all possible precautions. It was alarming to be shamed for it.
Work is moving to unvaccinated folks can go maskless, but they aren’t requiring proof. I have no idea how that’s going to go.
I am a member of a few committees at work that must follow the Brown Act. Basically they will have to be face to face 10/1 as some rules Newsom in acted are expiring 9/30. Getting faculty to campus is going to interesting. Maybe when we tell them that we have to post their home address (or whatever location they zoom from) they will willingly come to work?
A couple friends (both vaccinated) just tested positive for Covid. Their campus had a small outbreak, and encouraged everyone to test. My friends are asymptomatic, and had no idea they might have been sick.
They are isolating now, but are not sure when they caught it, so let folks know they may have been infectious for the last little bit.
We were supposed to see them at a thing this coming weekend, which they have now declined the invite for. Sad we will have to go a bit longer before seeing them, but happy they are doing what they can to limit further spread.
So far, I think our new work culture is sticking, where every meeting has some virtual participants (and currently most attendees are virtual). I can only hope this continues because I think we could do great things if all teams became experts at managing and collaborating with hybrid teams.
There are a lot of "old white men" who are fighting against it, but luckily we have enough of the big bosses adapting and setting the example for all. I am thankful every day.
The downside is that this is still TX, and I find myself liking less and less people every day.
How are you all handling the hybrid meetings in terms of tech setup? Do you have central cameras/mics in conference rooms? Laptop on the table? Everyone is on their own computer in the conference room too, just muted? We've got one "zoom room" equipped with a big monitor, central camera and mic, but that's only one out of 5 total conference rooms.
I was speaking to someone about getting a test for a family member and the person said that we can expect bumps in the road like this for the next few months. He shared an anecdote about a small medical office where almost 40% of the people who worked there tested positive with the gamma variant which "cut right through J&J and Pfizer". But of course no one was seriously ill or hospitalized.
Post by lilypad1126 on Jul 14, 2021 7:45:08 GMT -5
Our company just revised our "no travel" policy to allow for limited "essential business" travel, for employees who are vaccinated. The policy clearly states if you are not vaccinated, you are not allowed to travel for company business. Which is great, and since so many of are required to travel for our jobs, will hopefully help convince those who are hesitant to go ahead and get vaxxed. But as far as I can, they aren't asking for proof. So I'm not sure how this is supposed to work. Super glad I'm not the one who has to worry about enforcing this.
But now I'm dreaming of work travel and hotel bars and my very own bed I won't have to share with anyone. Clearly I'm ready for this part of my job to pick back up!
Our big annual meeting was set for late September but we recently decided to go virtual. I am not too sad since I do all the planning and it is a ton of work but I also miss seeing everyone and getting to go somewhere else. Even if it is just an airport hotel!
When we were trying to decide what to do, several people suggested a hybrid meeting. Honestly that sounds like a nightmare and it was going to be very expensive. I really hope they don't try to do that next fall.
I know that virtual is safer but I really miss doing things in person and seeing people face to face.
Me too. I work alone in my office, but yesterday I need to meet with the manager of the building my office is in. We'd been doing virtual meetings from our desks the entire time but then she had some things to share that she was concerned could be heard through the thinner walls of her office by her team, so I invited her up and was so excited to actually meet with someone in my office lol. Our maskless-for-vaccinated-staff-only policy isn't in effect just yet but I knew she was vaccinated and she knows I am so we just went maskless for the meeting. It was weird and crazy and...nice.
My system has buildings all across NYC and pre-covid, I would be in Manhattan on average about once a week doing meetings with central admin and it looks like that's going to be scaled back considerably. On the one hand, I hate useless meetings, especially ones that aren't super close to my office, so this is good. But I also loved my days in Manhattan despite the longer commute because I just love the city, and I'd generally make plans to see friends who don't live near me for dinner afterwards. Or I'd schedule those days potentially if I were going to a Rangers game or a Broadway show or something. It makes me sad to think there won't be as many days like that, but OTOH I'm not about to give up my short commute anytime soon to go back into Manhattan full-time lol.
So far, I think our new work culture is sticking, where every meeting has some virtual participants (and currently most attendees are virtual). I can only hope this continues because I think we could do great things if all teams became experts at managing and collaborating with hybrid teams.
There are a lot of "old white men" who are fighting against it, but luckily we have enough of the big bosses adapting and setting the example for all. I am thankful every day.
The downside is that this is still TX, and I find myself liking less and less people every day.
How are you all handling the hybrid meetings in terms of tech setup? Do you have central cameras/mics in conference rooms? Laptop on the table? Everyone is on their own computer in the conference room too, just muted? We've got one "zoom room" equipped with a big monitor, central camera and mic, but that's only one out of 5 total conference rooms.
Curious how other places are approaching this.
My office is relatively new, so each conference room has cameras and large TVs. We use WebEx, and its fairly easy now that I am used to it. So far for meetings people are in 1 of 3 places: in the office but remain at their desk, in the assigned conference room, and then still at home/remote.
Probably not helpful since I am not sure how it would be going without the new technology.
I know that virtual is safer but I really miss doing things in person and seeing people face to face.
Me too. I work alone in my office, but yesterday I need to meet with the manager of the building my office is in. We'd been doing virtual meetings from our desks the entire time but then she had some things to share that she was concerned could be heard through the thinner walls of her office by her team, so I invited her up and was so excited to actually meet with someone in my office lol. Our maskless-for-vaccinated-staff-only policy isn't in effect just yet but I knew she was vaccinated and she knows I am so we just went maskless for the meeting. It was weird and crazy and...nice.
My system has buildings all across NYC and pre-covid, I would be in Manhattan on average about once a week doing meetings with central admin and it looks like that's going to be scaled back considerably. On the one hand, I hate useless meetings, especially ones that aren't super close to my office, so this is good. But I also loved my days in Manhattan despite the longer commute because I just love the city, and I'd generally make plans to see friends who don't live near me for dinner afterwards. Or I'd schedule those days potentially if I were going to a Rangers game or a Broadway show or something. It makes me sad to think there won't be as many days like that, but OTOH I'm not about to give up my short commute anytime soon to go back into Manhattan full-time lol.
I really really feel this. I live firmly in the 'burbs, but my office is inside the beltway (still technically outside DC, but an urban inner ring area) and I LOVE being down there during the day. I can walk to lunch at about 245983746938672068 different delicious places, I can hop on the metro and head into the city to meet people for lunch or after work drinks or for client meetings, I used to be able to walk to meetings with some of my clients (eventually those meetings might be in person again...), there's a small concert venue right there that I was keeping an eye on because one of my resolutions in 2020 was to see more live music (LOLsob) and it would have been so nice and easy to just grab dinner and drinks after work and roll straight into a show.
But it's a minimum 45 minute commute. Often more like an hour pre-covid. So...yeah...
I don't know what to think re: breakthrough cases. I thought the most recent study out of Israel was that as Delta has been spreading and mask/distancing restrictions lifted, that the vaccine was looking more like 64% effective in protection -- as in, keeping you from getting covid at all -- under real-world conditions, rather than the 90+% that had been seen earlier when those things weren't in play. It's still apparently doing very well at preventing severe covid, like 93% now compared to 97% previously.
To me, that says we're going to see a lot more breakthrough mild cases -- that it's not going to be a matter of a few percent of people who have been fully vaccinated getting covid like the initial studies seemed to indicate, or just seeming like a lot because of how many people have been vaxxed. If that 64% figure is anything close to what should be expected, a significant portion of vaxxed people are going to get mild covid -- maybe a third? Maybe a little less -- or more, depending on new variants? So case counts are going to go up. But the deaths and severe cases will be largely limited to people who have not/can't be vaccinated or don't retain vaccine-based immunity. I feel like we are already starting to see this play out. Presumably the hot spots with lots of unvaxxed people are also going to see more breakthrough cases among the vaccinated.
Unfortunately, I think a higher level of breakthrough cases will play into various anti-vax narratives of "why get the vaccine if you're going to get covid anyway/naTuRal iMmUnitY!!" and shrugging off the nuance of the fact that it does, still, provide excellent protection against severe covid even under unrestricted real-world conditions with a new variant, and reduces transmission as well, IIRC.
So far, I think our new work culture is sticking, where every meeting has some virtual participants (and currently most attendees are virtual). I can only hope this continues because I think we could do great things if all teams became experts at managing and collaborating with hybrid teams.
There are a lot of "old white men" who are fighting against it, but luckily we have enough of the big bosses adapting and setting the example for all. I am thankful every day.
The downside is that this is still TX, and I find myself liking less and less people every day.
How are you all handling the hybrid meetings in terms of tech setup? Do you have central cameras/mics in conference rooms? Laptop on the table? Everyone is on their own computer in the conference room too, just muted? We've got one "zoom room" equipped with a big monitor, central camera and mic, but that's only one out of 5 total conference rooms.
Curious how other places are approaching this.
A couple of ways - there are going to be several large conference rooms with a built in camera system in the ceiling with directional mikes hooked to a central tower. Most of our conference rooms now have tvs that function as monitors, to add to that our (and several other) depts are purchasing Owls - owllabs.com/products/meeting-owl-pro
The Owls work really well, and for a larger conference room not set up with it's own camera system you can daisy chain 2 together.
I don't know what to think re: breakthrough cases. I thought the most recent study out of Israel was that as Delta has been spreading and mask/distancing restrictions lifted, that the vaccine was looking more like 64% effective in protection -- as in, keeping you from getting covid at all -- under real-world conditions, rather than the 90+% that had been seen earlier when those things weren't in play. It's still apparently doing very well at preventing severe covid, like 93% now compared to 97% previously.
To me, that says we're going to see a lot more breakthrough mild cases -- that it's not going to be a matter of a few percent of people who have been fully vaccinated getting covid like the initial studies seemed to indicate, or just seeming like a lot because of how many people have been vaxxed. If that 64% figure is anything close to what should be expected, a significant portion of vaxxed people are going to get mild covid -- maybe a third? Maybe a little less -- or more, depending on new variants? So case counts are going to go up. But the deaths and severe cases will be largely limited to people who have not/can't be vaccinated or don't retain vaccine-based immunity. I feel like we are already starting to see this play out. Presumably the hot spots with lots of unvaxxed people are also going to see more breakthrough cases among the vaccinated.
Unfortunately, I think a higher level of breakthrough cases will play into various anti-vax narratives of "why get the vaccine if you're going to get covid anyway/naTuRal iMmUnitY!!" and shrugging off the nuance of the fact that it does, still, provide excellent protection against severe covid even under unrestricted real-world conditions with a new variant, and reduces transmission as well, IIRC.
I feel like this is ultimately going to play out as the flu does. I know, I know...but there are similarities with regard to preventing infection, lessening the severity of illness if infected, and the hordes of people who refuse to get vaccinated for the flu.
On another note, I wish there were more studies re: natural immunity. Especially after I just read this piece about NYC's uptick:
Tony Smith, a 31-year-old Brooklyn resident who works for a social impact company, thought he was done with Covid this spring, when he got his two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. He had already caught the virus during New York’s initial wave, suffering a range of symptoms, including chest pain. For months afterward, his resting heart rate was elevated.
After his second shot of the vaccine, his heart rate dropped and he began to feel normal.
Then on Sunday, he woke up feeling slightly sick. The next day his heart rate felt higher. And he felt the same terrible sensation in his chest as he did when he first had Covid-19. “It’s like the crinkling of aluminum foil in my chest,” Mr. Smith said.
He tested positive for the virus again on Monday.
So far, he said, his symptoms felt much milder compared with his first infection. “I can tell you right now, it’s hugely comforting to have been vaccinated,” he said.
I think it's been shown so far that those with natural immunity who get vaccinated might actually be more impervious to covid. This could just be a very rare situation, but how does the fact that covid doesn't mutate as much as the flu does impact us from year to year? I guess this is where the booster conversation comes back in.
I'm not sure if anyone follows Your Local Epidemiologist on Facebook, but she's a great resource.
She had a post a day or so ago breaking down the efficacy of the different vaccines from multiple countries against Delta. The Israel study went down to 64%, but in the UK and Canada after two doses they still saw over 80% effective with Pfizer. I'm sure more data collecting needs to be done, but maybe not all hope is lost?
I don't post as often anymore, so I forget how to insert an image 😅
I’d really like the reporting to switch to hospitalization and deaths instead of cases. There’s always going to be cases but as long as the vaccine keeps people from being hospitalized/dying, it is still working.
Roc A Bee, I agree. It would be more helpful. Also I am frustrated with reporting on breakout cases because rarely does it talk about what actually is happening with breakout cases. Are they asymptomatic? Sick with a cold? Much worse? Breakthrough cases don't scare me if it is just your run of the mill virus illness. But I don't feel like that conversation is being had in an intelligent way. I hope we can get to that place.
I’d really like the reporting to switch to hospitalization and deaths instead of cases. There’s always going to be cases but as long as the vaccine keeps people from being hospitalized/dying, it is still working.
I thought it did at least by the CDC but then they were accused of hiding the “lack of success” of the vaccines. You just can’t win.
But I think I also read local health departments are still trying to keep track of breakthrough cases. As I believe they should, because it could probably provide some valuable information about what makes breakthrough cases more likely for people.