@ Snoo - parental judgment, anxiety and privilege

[Aloe Vera]

This was big when my now 16 months old was born. If I knew for sure she would like it, I would have bought/rented it. She has always been a very good sleeper so no regrets here.

But, now that I have some experience, I would just rent one if the next baby required it. I wouldn't buy it. The price tag is outrageous for an item you will only use for a couple months. My baby was really tall and we had to move her to the crib at 3 months old because the bassinet was just too short for her. I wish they would update the size of bassinets to fit today's babies. The current recommendation is baby should sleep in the same room as the parents for at least 6 months as a way to prevent SIDS, 1 year being ideal. I wish we could have done longer than 3 months.
Also, most babies in my mom groups hated sleeping in a bassinet. I'd be curious to see if it is different with the Snoo. I bought a $30 Delta bassinet on FB Marketplace and a new, thicker mattress to go with it. When I had to put away the bassinet after 3 months, I was super happy I went with a $30 item as opposed to a $1K+ item.
I also bought a brand new 4moms mamaRoo ($200) and my baby didn't like it. They now have a bassinet similar to the Snoo for $375 (it came out in late 2020).

[Aloe Vera]

Jul 14, 2021 9:02:08 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

There is a Graco knock-off for $350ish if people need a cheaper alternative (obviously not the same as the Snoo):

Graco Sense2Snooze Bassinet with Cry Detection Technology | Baby Bassinet Detects and Responds to Baby's Cries to Help Soothe Back to Sleep, Ellison www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y5SLKJL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_XTJE4HD9ECW4QXWQ1QJG

4moms also has one now. Same price ($375)

www.4moms.com/products/mamaroo-sleep-bassinet

[akayf]

I wish I had known about this last January. My friend was really struggling in the beginning with her baby. She called me up in tears one night when he baby was about 2 weeks old saying she couldn’t do this anymore and was seriously considering leaving her at the fire house. We got her the help she needed. But a huge part of it was lack of sleep(other issue was she felt pressure to BF but she was producing very little milk so she felt like a failure). They could never afford something like this but I would have gladly rented one for a few months for them if I knew.

[heygrey]

I would have given anything, any price to try one of these with DS. As it was, we tried over half a dozen different brands of swings since we could borrow from friends. RNP had been banned in Canada by the time he was born (2014). DS did not sleep, H had a terrible work schedule, and all of our family was 3000 miles away. I had horrible, undiagnosed PPD to the point where I wished everyday that I would just fall asleep and not wake up.

I will never, ever begrudge a new parent the chance to sleep. We bought or borrowed every swaddle, swing, and baby carrier that promised to sooth an infant. It was still hell. $1500 would have been a small price to pay to alleviate the strain on my marriage and the lasting mental health effects of PPD.

[sparkythelawyer]

Give it a year, "the experts" will decide the snoo is bad for baby, say you shouldn't use it anymore, and then decide you "must" buy something else.

I am team "any port in a storm" when it comes to baby sleep. If this is working for moms and babies then great.

[macmars45]

This is bringing back all the memories of judgement I got about FF. I suppose those asshole judgey people would've rather I sob in pain every other hour for an hour because my DS had a bad latch despite using a nipple shield and getting lactation support multiple times.

I maintain my opinion that a parent's mental and physical health is just as important as their baby's. Honestly I'd argue it's more important because an unhealthy parent can't adequately care for their baby. And yet we treat moms as second class citizens the moment that baby is on the outside.

ETA: I used a RNP for my DS before they were known not safe sleeping beds. He was a spit up machine and had to sleep propped up or there was no sleep to be had. We tried other things none of which worked as well as the RNP.

[shopgirl07]

I’m so confused about the judgment. People really say you’re cheating if you use the snoo? Like, what?

[bcv513]

The Snoo wasn't around for my kid, but I absolutely would have spent $150 a month to rent one. C slept in a pack and play next to my bed. One night I fell asleep holding her after feeding her. I woke up sometime later and she was in the bed up by the pillows. It was absolutely my lowest moment in parenting. I am so lucky that she was okay, but I still panic just thinking about it.

[Patsy Baloney]

I'll never understand the idea that, "Because I had to do this, you must, too," when it comes to slogging through the absolute dogshit parts of life.

My 2nd kiddo was born with a cleft in his soft palate, so he couldn't use a pacifier. He had reflux. His soothing mechanism is screaming. His nights were always a mess. I don't know that something like a Snoo would have helped for him, but if there was something that did, we would have gotten it.

His sleep is still a mess 2 years later. If they made a 2-year-old Snoo, I'd pony up the dough.

Parenting isn't a game, so it's not cheating. Sorry, Bootstraps Bonnie.

[TR]

Jul 14, 2021 9:45:42 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

I’m so confused about the judgment. People really say you’re cheating if you use the snoo? Like, what?

These are probably the same people opposed to student loan forgiveness because they already paid theirs off and/or went to college when you could cash flow tuition from a minimum wage job.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I would've been all over this.

But my baby also napped in a swing so 🤷‍♀️

[pixy0stix]

Jul 14, 2021 9:45:42 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

I’m so confused about the judgment. People really say you’re cheating if you use the snoo? Like, what?

It's motherhood. If you figure out a way to wear your baby, then you're cheating because you figured out a way to hold your kid while having your hands free. If you have to supplement or feed with formula, you're cheating because you didn't have to deal with mastitis, waking up with full hurting boobs, and chapped nips. We're supposed to participate in the suffering olympics if you're a mom. Did you miss that memo?  

[simpsongal]

My only concern was whether they've been through sufficient tests/approvals. I'm sensitive to this since I used the Rock n Play for my kids. If so, amen - I'm all for technology making us better at this type of stuff.

[waverly]

It's behind a paywall for me. But yes, people love to judge parents, especially those of babies. Everyone had an opinion on my babies. I find it relieving but also somewhat funny that no one in society cares a bit about my school age kids. Yay, the judgy comments from old ladies have stopped, but I guess school age kids don't matter like babies do- haha.

[lea]

Honestly, I didn’t realize how much the newborn/sleep-deprived infant stage traumatized me until I realized I still basically have zero desire to even hold other peoples’ babies and my youngest is now 4. Pre-kids I wanted to hold and snuggle all the babies. Now I only offer because I want to give other mamas a break but I definitely have not yet reverted to actually doing it because I really want to hold the babies.

I hope I recover by the time I have grandkids, lol.

[seeyalater52]

Jul 14, 2021 10:25:40 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

My only concern was whether they've been through sufficient tests/approvals. I'm sensitive to this since I used the Rock n Play for my kids. If so, amen - I'm all for technology making us better at this type of stuff.

It hasn't. According to the AAP, it's officially not different than any other sleep space with a positioner, which is deemed unsafe and not recommended. 

I have absolutely no issues with "cheating" or whatever (how absurd!), and my kid is a great sleeper so I have the luxury of not needing something like this. But the lack of safety testing and approval beyond what the manufacturer has done independently and the way it goes against clear recommendations gives me pause and personally I would not use it. 

I'm not judging people who do, though. No one needs more judgement than parenting already comes with. 

[somersault72]

I personally found some of the moms in that article insufferable "oh noes, I can't take the Snoo to Mexico!" Still, for anyone to say someone is "cheating" or whatever is absurd to me. I had 2 crappy sleepers and I didn't sit there and hate every mom that had a baby who slept well. Nor would I call someone a "cheater" who has a Snoo, or hell even a night nurse or whatever. Besides this thing might have worked with my oldest, but I am just not sure that ANYTHING would have gotten my daughter away my boobs.

[seeyalater52]

Jul 14, 2021 11:09:48 GMT -5 melmaria said:

Jul 14, 2021 11:00:33 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

It hasn't. According to the AAP, it's officially not different than any other sleep space with a positioner, which is deemed unsafe and not recommended. 

I have absolutely no issues with "cheating" or whatever (how absurd!), and my kid is a great sleeper so I have the luxury of not needing something like this. But the lack of safety testing and approval beyond what the manufacturer has done independently and the way it goes against clear recommendations gives me pause and personally I would not use it. 

I'm not judging people who do, though. No one needs more judgement than parenting already comes with. 

The Snoo is not an inclined sleeper, so it really isn't similar to the Rock n Play or any other swing with an incline.  It also secures babies completely flat on their backs in a way that is different from other positioners (e.g., the DockATot or the Boppy Pillow/etc, which are lounge pillows and rely on cushioning/foam padding etc. to keep baby in place, which can be a suffocation risk and why those products aren't officially recommended for sleeping). 

So I have a really hard time imagining what could possibly be unsafe about it, honestly, but I'm glad they are being evaluated by the FDA for further testing, because hopefully that might make it a covered product as others noted above.

Yes, it would be ideal if the FDA would weigh in. It does sound like they have an issue with it initially, because of the lag time from the submission to any determination about further testing. But in the meantime, it is clearly a positioner, and suffocation is not the only reason why positioners are not recommended (and the incline piece is irrelevant to that.) 

I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't use it, just that to the extent that people don't seem super jazzed about it, some of that may stem from safety concerns that aren't as invalid/unreasonable, as the Snoo manufacturers would leave you to believe (and clearly that is separate from the santimommy judgement stuff.) 

[tiki]

Jul 14, 2021 11:14:00 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Yes, it would be ideal if the FDA would weigh in. It does sound like they have an issue with it initially, because of the lag time from the submission to any determination about further testing. But in the meantime, it is clearly a positioner, and suffocation is not the only reason why positioners are not recommended (and the incline piece is irrelevant to that.) 

What are the non-suffocation reasons why sleep positioners are not recommended? I'm having trouble finding info about any other risks (example: www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/do-not-use-infant-sleep-positioners-due-risk-suffocation) 

[seeyalater52]

Jul 14, 2021 11:31:49 GMT -5 tiki said:

Jul 14, 2021 11:14:00 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Yes, it would be ideal if the FDA would weigh in. It does sound like they have an issue with it initially, because of the lag time from the submission to any determination about further testing. But in the meantime, it is clearly a positioner, and suffocation is not the only reason why positioners are not recommended (and the incline piece is irrelevant to that.) 

What are the non-suffocation reasons why sleep positioners are not recommended? I'm having trouble finding info about any other risks (example: www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/do-not-use-infant-sleep-positioners-due-risk-suffocation) 

I truly have no idea, I'm just going by what the AAP recommends. There are other positioners that are relatively fixed and those aren't approved for safe sleep either. The AAP doesn't have a position on what would make something in the sleep space holding the infant in position safe as it violates multiple tenants of their safe sleep recommendations. They have not said anything about the snoo specifically being exempt from these requirements and neither (yet) has the FDA. 

I'm not going to die on this hill, but I'm also wary of a company creating a product and self-certifying it as a magic way to avoid SIDs while violating many of the core tenants of safe sleep established by safety and health governing bodies. Just food for thought, as the question was asked in the thread. 

[madDawg228]

My SIL is using the Snoo (borrowed from a friend) with her 3m/2m adjusted preterm baby. Before my nephew was born she was convinced that the Snoo would give her 6-8 hrs of sleep from the very beginning, and that was not the case, especially with a preterm baby. But I do think she's getting decent periods of sleep, either because the baby likes the Snoo or baby is just a "good" sleeper naturally.

I did not use the Snoo with my almost 1yr son mostly because of the price, and I'm not sure if it would have worked with him because he HATED being swaddled and never liked a bassinet (He is a kick machine who has never skipped leg day to this day). He slept in a combination of PnP, being held to sleep, and the swing. I am curious about if the Love to Dream Swaddle would have worked, now that I know it exists. But regular sleep sacks worked best for us.

I think the main issue of the Snoo is that it is a sleep aid that is NEEDED because parents are rushed back to work too soon in the US. I think Sleep Training in all forms are necessary for survival, if the Snoo is part of one parent's journey, that's their business.

[sent]

Jul 13, 2021 23:38:25 GMT -5 Aquatica said:

When DD was born, MamaRoo was a thing. Hearing others talk about it and rave that it was the 'best thing ever' made me feel...left out and very poor. Sure, my baby had the basics but it seemed to create a divide within the parenting groups by not having these expensive items and it sucked feeling left out all over again, while trying to find a connect after having a baby and already feeling so 'am I doing this right?'.

I fell for the Mamaroo. DD screamed in it every time we tried to put her in it. One day it stopped working and I was like "YES!!!!!!" I could only return the opened product to Buy Buy Baby if it was broken. They plugged it in to test it for themselves and then gave me $300 in gift cards to go buy something else. 

[katfco]

DS didn’t sleep through the night until he was four. I would have paid anything if I had the money to get a solid night sleep.

[AJL]

Dear world,
Stop judging parents for doing what they have to do to survive early parenthood. This shit is fucking hard. Got an opinion about how I soothe my baby? Either keep it to yourself or sign up for an overnight shift so I can get some goddamned sleep.
Signed,
29 year old new mom me (43 year old veteran mom me says “Honey, you do you! And I’ll be over to do your laundry and wash your dishes so you can shower and nap and feel human again.”)

[seeyalater52]

Jul 14, 2021 12:15:39 GMT -5 melmaria said:

Jul 14, 2021 11:14:00 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Yes, it would be ideal if the FDA would weigh in. It does sound like they have an issue with it initially, because of the lag time from the submission to any determination about further testing. But in the meantime, it is clearly a positioner, and suffocation is not the only reason why positioners are not recommended (and the incline piece is irrelevant to that.) 

I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't use it, just that to the extent that people don't seem super jazzed about it, some of that may stem from safety concerns that aren't as invalid/unreasonable, as the Snoo manufacturers would leave you to believe (and clearly that is separate from the santimommy judgement stuff.) 

What statement have you read from the AAP that says it's "not any different than any other positioner"?

I know the AAP hasn't officially endorsed it, but I haven't seen anything that indicates they think it is the same as other positioners.

The fact that they haven't said so. If they thought it was different I assume they'd say so. It quite literally does not comply with their standards. 

I get that people who use this/have used this feel passionately about it. I'm not calling anyone out or judging your parenting. Just pointing out that it is not, indeed, endorsed as safe by the actual people charged with endorsing safety. I know you're aware of that, but a lot of people aren't and it was a question posed in this thread, which I answered. 

I'm out, though, I have no desire to die on this hill. Hopefully the FDA will eventually make a determination  

[seeyalater52]

Jul 14, 2021 12:26:53 GMT -5 melmaria said:

Jul 14, 2021 11:45:07 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

I truly have no idea, I'm just going by what the AAP recommends. There are other positioners that are relatively fixed and those aren't approved for safe sleep either. The AAP doesn't have a position on what would make something in the sleep space holding the infant in position safe as it violates multiple tenants of their safe sleep recommendations. They have not said anything about the snoo specifically being exempt from these requirements and neither (yet) has the FDA. 

I'm not going to die on this hill, but I'm also wary of a company creating a product and self-certifying it as a magic way to avoid SIDs while violating many of the core tenants of safe sleep established by safety and health governing bodies. Just food for thought, as the question was asked in the thread. 

I really don't see how it violates "many of the core tenants of safe sleep"?

The ABCs from the AAP are "Alone on your Back in a bare Crib."  The Snoo meets that description. 

And if you look at the AAP's publication/FDA warnings on traditional "positioners," it seems pretty clear that the concern is rolling over and suffocating in pillows/other plush products.  There's no such material for a baby to roll into in a Snoo.

www.aappublications.org/news/2017/10/17/HealthAlerts101717
www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/do-not-use-infant-sleep-positioners-due-risk-suffocation

Not a hill I'm going to die on either, but I don't see this product as flouting "many" tenants of safe sleep.

It actually doesn't meet them, because the baby is not alone in the crib (the swaddle material is in the crib with them), and remains swaddled long after the recommended time. You can argue all you want about the swaddle being attached to the crib (which I agree is not insignificant) but no one except the manufacturer has said this is safe. 

[SusanBAnthony]

The issue with wanting specific government groups (or AAP) to approve this stuff is they always seem to favor baby over everything else. No one cares about the parents (aka mother let's be real).

My kid is a teen and his infant sleep is still this vicseral thing for me. It was probably borderline to the point that my kid was in danger from me because I was so sleep deprived. I should have done a ton of "bad" stuff for his own safety and mine. But I was following the rules so I didn't (I wasn't even anxious about it I am just a rule follower).

If I did it again I would totally let my kid sleep in a RNP or Snoop or on his stomach or whatever. Not that I would ever do it again and the reason is 100% sleep.

[majesty318]

My baby is 8 months. I am glad I did not know about Snoo till recently as we really can't afford it but I would have been really tempted to rent one.

We transitioned to the crib at 9 weeks and though he never slept through the night, he was fine transitioning. It is now as of the last 3 weeks that when he wakes up in the crib he will not be soothed without coming to our bed. If you had asked me before if a baby would sleep in bed with us, I would have died laughing. Now, anything for some sleep!

Though it would be easier to not feel this way if American maternity leave were longer, if paternity leave were a thing, if companies were more lenient with employees with babies, etc.

[akayf]

Jul 14, 2021 12:35:10 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

The issue with wanting specific government groups (or AAP) to approve this stuff is they always seem to favor baby over everything else. No one cares about the parents (aka mother let's be real).

My kid is a teen and his infant sleep is still this vicseral thing for me. It was probably borderline to the point that my kid was in danger from me because I was so sleep deprived. I should have done a ton of "bad" stuff for his own safety and mine. But I was following the rules so I didn't (I wasn't even anxious about it I am just a rule follower).

If I did it again I would totally let my kid sleep in a RNP or Snoop or on his stomach or whatever. Not that I would ever do it again and the reason is 100% sleep.

Both of our kids slept on their stomachs once they were able to roll over on their own. I’ll never forget calling the pedi in tears because I didn’t know what to do because he wouldn’t sleep on his back. No matter what, DS1 rolled right over in the crib. The pedi is slightly sarcastic and said well you could always just duct tape him down and laughed so hard at my shocked gasp. Then he reassured me that it was fine and as long as there wasn’t anything else in the crib with him, leave him if I saw he rolled over. Lol.

[pugz]

It would have been out of our price range but I was/am a big Happiest Baby believer. I remember when the Snoo was released. It was this big secret project they kept teasing to hype it up, lol. My second was already born at that point. Thankful neither of my kids was harmed by the RnP, although one still has a little flat spot on her head.