What I would probably do is tell DS that I'm thinking of just cancelling the trip, and asking what he thinks about that.
That's actually a really good idea. He might not be able to verbalize the "why" of his feelings, but ste if you say "ok, let's cancel," he'll either be like "yes, thank you" or "well maybe we can still go." Hopefully that will spark some conversation that can help you feel more sure about the decision either way.
I agree with this. I can imagine how I might feel in this situation and I kind of think I might want to not go, but not feel like I could say it out loud or be the one to make the final decision. I think it would be way easier if my parent gave me an out like that. It would make it feel like it wasn’t me making the decision, even though it’s what I wanted.
We just talked again (out of nowhere he said he doesn’t want to go) and he’s afraid of flying/the airplane. I’m going to try and keep the conversation going to see if that’s really it or if there’s something more.
I am a big believer in kids going to funerals/memorial services. It helps with closure on one part of this grief and he may not know that it will be helpful. Maybe he is nervous at seeing his dad's family.
Do you know what they are planning for the service?
I am a big believer in kids going to funerals/memorial services. It helps with closure on one part of this grief and he may not know that it will be helpful. Maybe he is nervous at seeing his dad's family.
Do you know what they are planning for the service?
The only thing I know is that xh closest sibling is NOT going because of how the planning went. So I’m not encouraged for what that actually means. XMIL sent me a picture of the marker they used where they spread his ashes and my funny/not funny immediate (internal) reaction was “omg he’d die.”
Huh, wouldn't have expected that. Has he ever flown before? Is your sense that that's really what's bothering him or do you think it's an excuse for something else (that he may or may not be able to explain)?
Huh, wouldn't have expected that. Has he ever flown before? Is your sense that that's really what's bothering him or do you think it's an excuse for something else (that he may or may not be able to explain)?
Me either, at ALL. He’s flown multiple times before, but not in 4+ years so I can’t really say I’m surprised. We talked more about it and he said he’s not really nervous about seeing people (and acknowledged he won’t know most of them), and he knows it’s going to be sad and that lots of people will probably want to hug him and talk to him. So he was paying attention when we talked about it previously. lol He said he will probably be sad too like the other people, and I said yes he will and it’s normal, and that I know I will be too.
So now we’re working on how to be more comfortable with flying, I guess.
It may be more that he realizes how long the day will be, I think you said you have a layover both ways? He may be weighing hours and hours of airports and flying against the length of time of the event.
It may be more that he realizes how long the day will be, I think you said you have a layover both ways? He may be weighing hours and hours of airports and flying against the length of time of the event.
We talked about when each flight takes off, how long in each airport, and when they all land. We agreed books and napping on the first and last flight, and iPad on the second and third flight. We also talked about when we have to get up in the morning, and when we’ll get back home. He seems a little more comfortable having gone over all the details, but is definitely still a little nervous about the actual flying.
We did some research about planes crashing, and talked about pilot and air traffic control training and requirements. 🙃
Not gonna lie, I’m fucking exhausted right now.
ETA we did also agree he can still change his mind.
It may be more that he realizes how long the day will be, I think you said you have a layover both ways? He may be weighing hours and hours of airports and flying against the length of time of the event.
We talked about when each flight takes off, how long in each airport, and when they all land. We agreed books and napping on the first and last flight, and iPad on the second and third flight. We also talked about when we have to get up in the morning, and when we’ll get back home. He seems a little more comfortable having gone over all the details, but is definitely still a little nervous about the actual flying.
We did some research about planes crashing, and talked about pilot and air traffic control training and requirements. 🙃
Not gonna lie, I’m fucking exhausted right now.
ETA we did also agree he can still change his mind.
Is there something else he could do during that time to honor his dad? My husband is estranged from his family, and his grandma died about 9m after he stopped speaking to his parents. Instead of going to her funeral (which would have resulted in drama), we both took the day off and spent time together doing some of their favorite activists (baking a pie, playing cards). He was able to dedicate time and get some closure, but without the family drama.
I guess I’m in the minority here but barring a definitive “no” from him, I would take him to the funeral. It’s his father’s memorial service. It’s important.
And having attended (or missed it) may end up being very important to him in years to come even if he feels ambivalent now. It's a chance for him to see people honoring his dad. It happens now.
If he misses it there is no way to go back and change that.
I give a lot of weight to cleo's perspective on this.
You are doing an amazing job balancing everything and always trying to do what is best for your son. I just don’t think there is a right answer here.
One thing others have mentioned is that he could have regrets of not going. And absolutely, he could. But also…if it’s a huge shitshow and people end up arguing or being passive aggressive (or aggressive) about his dad, that’s not good, either. This sounds like it may not be a sweet, touching memorial service that most of us have experienced. I’d be strongly considering what the chances are that it could all go sideways with drama.
Is attending virtually an option? I think the importance/feeling of reality of virtual things is different now, especially for kids. Do you have a friend there would could maybe attend and FaceTime it or something so he can interact with people from home if he would like? It’s maybe not an ideal scenario, but nothing about this situation is ideal.
I agree with the professionals that it’s good for him to have power to make decisions, but this is a really big one. I’d consider asking him if he wanted you to make the decision for him. Or you could also give him permission to blame it on you. (I offer that all the time with my kids. If you don’t want to do something that is a bad idea, you can always say, “My mom won’t let me/will find out”.) Sometimes allowing them to shift blame leads them to making an easier decision.
I guess I’m in the minority here but barring a definitive “no” from him, I would take him to the funeral. It’s his father’s memorial service. It’s important.
I completely agree and am shocked by the number of people saying he shouldn't go. DH's Dad died when he was 10 and he says he should absolutely go. He suggested that not going could be used against Mom in the future like she was trying to keep him away from his Dad's family.
No matter how anyone feels right now, it will be important for him to have a relationship with his Dad's family as he grows up if at all possible and that starts now.
Also, this wouldn't be "fun" for anyone, child or adult. Sometimes it's important to do the right thing whether it's fun or not.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jul 23, 2021 23:08:14 GMT -5
I’m guessing the plane fears are just anxiety about attending manifesting in a different way.
This for me is a 100% go. If family start to be bonkers, you’re there to guide him to the door. At least he will have gone, even if it was a short stay.
I’m sure the worry of the unknown is really crazy high right now. I imagine this will be fine and your son will be glad that his desire to see his dad be remembered was fulfilled. I think this decision is way too big for your son right now. I think having a bail-out plan is great if the worst case family scenario happens, but I’m guessing everything will be fine.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Jul 24, 2021 6:25:30 GMT -5
I’m going to deviate from what most posters think, I wouldn’t be comfortable forcing my child to a memorial with what seem to be terrible and unsupportive relatives making someone else’s death all about them, not seeming to take your son into much account at all, all in the name of “should”. I would maybe feel differently if the in-laws were beloved and kind and supportive and loving. It doesn’t seem like they are.
This is what I’ve spent months in therapy trying to unlearn, societal expectations and shoulds. “I should continue to support and help my mom even though she always takes advantage of me bc society says you should honor your parents” (clearly my own example)
I would talk to a therapist before forcing my child to go. I was a child full of anxiety and while I didn’t deal with the death of a parent, being incredibly anxious and then also forced to do something I wasn’t ready for is also another thing in therapy that takes up a lot of time.
I just don’t believe that you have to do things that will very possibly hurt your mental health in the name of “family”. I would try to keep dialogue open, let him know he can change his mind at any time, give him the option of having a memorial at your own house, just a little something. Maybe a slideshow of pictures, your son could do something his father loved to do in his honor, read a book that his father loved in his honor.
I’m so sorry you both have to deal with this. So much love to you both.
Last Edit: Jul 24, 2021 6:25:52 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Am I the only person with horrible plane luck? If I booked your trip my planes would be so delayed I’d miss the celebration of life AND my plane ride back home.
Having been through this with my sister's kids who lost their mom at 9 and 13 and on the advice of my DH who buried his dad at 9, I would set him up to go.
This is his dad. And he doesn't get a do-over should he regret it. I wonder if you could arrange with the funeral home for your son to visit the site ahead of the arrival of other family. We did this for my nieces who weren't sure they were up for the memorial service. The ashes were on a table flanked by flowers they'd chosen and they each left a note for mom. In the end they decided to stay, but even if they hadn't they paid their respects and had that to look back on.
With the plane fears, have him talk to the pilot when you get on board- that always really helps me and then the pilots and crew know you’re a nervous flier and can let you know when turbulence is coming, they check in with you more, etc. Also, some noise cancelling headphones might be a good idea, I’ve found that the noises of the plane are a huge trigger for me. Even if his fear isn’t 100% about the plane (which I expect it’s not) the sounds and people and crowds might be overwhelming to him when combined with all the big feelings he’s having, and the headphones could help prevent some sensory overload.
I will say, my grandfather and grandmother refuse to let us hold a memorial service or church service or anything for them. We had to talk my grandmother into even putting something in the paper for when my Poppop passed, and not having a memorial for him was really tough. It just felt like there was never any closure.
Remember to check in and take care of yourself during all this, too. I can’t imagine navigating through all this.
Post by maudefindlay on Jul 24, 2021 7:35:51 GMT -5
I was always 100% kids and adults go to funerals/memorial services, it's healthy. Then my MIL died 3 yrs ago and I just remember FIL and the rest of us in the immediate family wanted it over fast. I recall thinking why did we do this, it was so awful and painful. There just didn't seem to be a point in putting us thru such a painful service for others and that is what it felt like. I felt like we did more to honor her when we all sat around FIL's and went thru pictures dividing them up amongst us kids and retelling stories about her. This service hasn't happened yet and is causing anguish, plus the people there will be jerks, so follow your gut. You have posted 2 threads on this, I think you know what your inner voice is saying.
As an aside I did feel my grandparents' funerals were all lovely and weirdly maybe fun to hear some stories told I hadn't heard before, but they had lived longer lives than MIL and had done it all so to speak.
Post by maudefindlay on Jul 24, 2021 8:30:02 GMT -5
This is a very sensitive topic. Please remember that there are a variety of ways to grieve that still fall under the umbrella of healthy. That everyone's family dynamics are different. No one here has said a funeral or memorial service should be fun, but I think it is perfectly OK to question the purpose of one if it may bring more harm than good.
I appreciate all of the various perspectives, especially from those who have/know someone who experienced the loss of a close family member at a young age. I know a lot of people feel like funerals and memorial services are interchangeable; that’s not been my experience, so it’s helpful to hear others feel differently about that.
I don’t expect people to remember anything from my prior posts about all of this (or even to catch everything mentioned in responses within this post). So you’ll have to take my word for it that this is not a remotely normal family dynamic by any definition - I’m not going to provide a list of grievances here, but some examples are them withholding items of XH from DS that he specifically asked for, spreading the ashes without including us/him and then also withholding the location of where they were spread, and the fact that they made zero effort to see DS in almost 4 years. This is completely ignoring the things they have said and done to XH (never mind me lol). Also not even mentioning that they had no idea something was wrong with XH (I’m the one that recognized it and called the police). This is also COMPLETELY leaving out the shitty stunts XH pulled regarding DS since we separated (… and before).
I’m trying my hardest in a really incredibly difficult time to do right by DS, and I have no idea what that truly is. I’m also attempting to respect what XH may have wanted knowing what I do about his history with his family. I don’t want DS to regret anything, even though I’m unsure if his brain understands regret- I know one day he will.
I don’t know what the right thing is here. I spent $$$ (that frankly we don’t really have) to make this happen for him, being hopeful that they could be respectful adults. It’s a few days away and I’m still not confident they can do that.
I don’t want to traumatize him, either way. It honestly feels like it’s a lose-lose situation for me and I’m going to fuck something up regardless of what we do.
And for the pp who mentioned the flight luck - I did get trip insurance, but this is also on my radar as a potential disaster. I’m just trying to be positive and hope for the best.
Eta we did do things here within our family to celebrate and memorialize XH shortly after it happened, and continue to do so. DS also knows he can freely talk and ask about XH with all of us, including my parents and brother/SIL with whom he has very good relationships and all knew XH very well.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jul 24, 2021 8:55:44 GMT -5
ste it is definitely a difficult situation and I’m really sorry you’re having to navigate it. You know the dynamic and your son’s needs best.
I hope once this day has passed, the path will be smooth and your son and your family can continue focusing on healing and moving forward. I’m so sorry.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Jul 24, 2021 10:24:37 GMT -5
I see questions of “would you skip your own father’s funeral”, not really calling out anyone at all. This is an incredibly hard topic and it’s hard bc there’s no clear cut “right” answer.
For me, the answer is yes, I would. BUT I admittedly still struggle with making “the final decision”. He was an addict that ruined everything he touched and hurt my life in many ways. So, yes my answer is maybe shocking but having an addict for a parent hurts people in a way that is hard to understand for a person without an addicted parent. (And even with people with an addicted parent, everyone is different.) Even I am shocked to learn how much I’ve been affected by it. I’ve convinced myself “I’m fine” bc Ive been taught to bury my feelings, ignore my anxiety, that my anxiety is my fault bc I’m weak, to keep the relationship going bc “what if” and “you might regret it”. So that’s where I’m coming from, in my own life.
ste, I’m so so sorry for you and your son. I know that no matter the decision, you’re doing it in the absolute best interest of your child. So much love and grace to you. So so much.
Last Edit: Jul 24, 2021 10:25:28 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Can you just show up at the beginning of the service and leave right after? I ask in hopes that no bad behavior is on display during the service. While I think memorializing someone can absolutely happen separately from a funeral, I just worry that he will, at some point, have regrets about not going.
I see questions of “would you skip your own father’s funeral”, not really calling out anyone at all. This is an incredibly hard topic and it’s hard bc there’s no clear cut “right” answer.
For me, the answer is yes, I would. BUT I admittedly still struggle with making “the final decision”. He was an addict that ruined everything he touched and hurt my life in many ways. So, yes my answer is maybe shocking but having an addict for a parent hurts people in a way that is hard to understand for a person without an addicted parent. (And even with people with an addicted parent, everyone is different.) Even I am shocked to learn how much I’ve been affected by it. I’ve convinced myself “I’m fine” bc Ive been taught to bury my feelings, ignore my anxiety, that my anxiety is my fault bc I’m weak, to keep the relationship going bc “what if” and “you might regret it”. So that’s where I’m coming from, in my own life.
ste, I’m so so sorry for you and your son. I know that no matter the decision, you’re doing it in the absolute best interest of your child. So much love and grace to you. So so much.
Isn’t this more equivalent to your kids skipping your memorial service because your toxic dad planned it and would be there? Nothing ste has shared gives me the impression that her son does not want to attend because of his relationship with his father.
ste it is definitely a no win situation and I’m sorry you are going through it.
Can you just show up at the beginning of the service and leave right after? I ask in hopes that no bad behavior is on display during the service. While I think memorializing someone can absolutely happen separately from a funeral, I just worry that he will, at some point, have regrets about not going.
I honestly booked our flights in hopes of having it work out like this. Originally we were going to come for a day or two, but in addition to the expense I was just too worried about the potential for drama or issues. If this goes smoothly, we would absolutely consider a longer trip for actual visiting in the future; but it’s something we’d have to plan and budget for and will depend a lot on how everyone handles themselves during this.
We theoretically get in 2 hours before it starts. We’ll have to get out of the airport and into an Uber, and then theoretically it’s a ~30 min drive. xMIL already asked if we’d come early to see them before anyone else arrives, but it may be out of my hands. Same goes with the end of the day, we will have constraints for getting back to the airport which will limit time for anything else.
I am frankly aghast. Would this many people skip their own father’s funeral for these reasons? That they would be tired from the flight, or that some of the people who will be attending are self-serving opportunists? You would just skip your own parent’s funeral unless it was convenient and fun, really? I mean I doubt it. So I don’t know why it’s different just because he’s 7.
I'm feeling really defensive about this, but yes, yes, yes, and yes. Without regrets.
I completely agree and am shocked by the number of people saying he shouldn't go. DH's Dad died when he was 10 and he says he should absolutely go. He suggested that not going could be used against Mom in the future like she was trying to keep him away from his Dad's family.
No matter how anyone feels right now, it will be important for him to have a relationship with his Dad's family as he grows up if at all possible and that starts now.
Also, this wouldn't be "fun" for anyone, child or adult. Sometimes it's important to do the right thing whether it's fun or not.
I am frankly aghast. Would this many people skip their own father’s funeral for these reasons? That they would be tired from the flight, or that some of the people who will be attending are self-serving opportunists? You would just skip your own parent’s funeral unless it was convenient and fun, really? I mean I doubt it. So I don’t know why it’s different just because he’s 7.
Yes, with these family dynamics 100%. The person who died isn’t going to be there, the difficult family members will be.
It’s not about it it being “fun” it’s about not putting myself in the situation of dealing with toxic people. We stopped seeing my dad’s family who were similar to OP’s XILs when I was 9 and it is best thing my family ever did. It was like a weight was lifted and it taught me that I don’t have to put up with toxic people or put myself in uncomfortable situations out of obligation to “family” and tradition or doing the “right thing”. I can mourn and celebrate in my own way.
In this case the travel is a factor because once they are there they are stuck in another state without a car and an easy way to get away.
I am really sorry you are in this situation. I don’t think people realize what it’s like when you have to deal with people like this. It makes tough situations harder.
I’m sure no matter what happens your son will know you are there for him and have taken his feelings into account. He will know this even more in the future when he realizes what a mess this must have been.