CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said recent studies had shown that those vaccinated individuals who do become infected with Covid have just as much viral load as the unvaccinated, making it possible for them to spread the virus to others. Based on that finding, Walensky said the CDC is also recommending that all school children wear masks in the fall.
"We're seeing now that it's actually possible if you're a rare breakthrough infection that you can transmit further, which is the reason for the change," Walensky said.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jul 27, 2021 21:33:41 GMT -5
It’s new and appears to be why the CDC has changed their guidance. It does explain why there are stories of clusters of vaccinated people being infected (like members of the same household who are all vaccinated).
Post by SusanBAnthony on Jul 28, 2021 6:31:45 GMT -5
I know the science is evolving but my god the average American who doesn't neurotically follow this is not understanding that and this whiplash on everything is getting really old.
Masks: we don't know, no masks, masks
Vaccinations: they don't protect other people, yours done, you don't even need a mask, kidding wear your mask as you might still be a super spreader
There are probably more, I guess mostly @ related.
I like to think of myself as logical and data driven etc but I am emotionally at a place where I am saying fuck it, I'll do what I want, because next month y'all will just change your minds again.
*I will follow whatever guidance, this is about FEELINGS.
Basically, we don't necessarily need people to mask up in places with high vaccination rates, but the places with low vaccination rates are less likely to heed mask advisories too. More shots in arms is the only way out of this, IMO. And mandates are the best way to do that. Yes, I know we may be seeing more breakthrough cases, but I just don't see a better solution that is actually realistic and effective. And I'm prepared to live with breakthrough cases if it means protection from hospitalizations and deaths.
Basically, we don't necessarily need people to mask up in places with high vaccination rates, but the places with low vaccination rates are less likely to heed mask advisories too. More shots in arms is the only way out of this, IMO. Yes, I know we may be seeing more breakthrough cases, but I just don't see a better solution that is actually realistic and effective.
This is the message I’d like to see pushed harder. You don’t have to mask again if you live in an area where transmission is low. The only way for transmission to be low is to get vaccinated. Ergo, get the shot and we’re in good shape.
I also really hope more places will go to vaccine-only spots. Apparently unvaxxed passengers on cruises are mad because they are not allowed to do certain things or be in certain parts of the ship. Great. More of this.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I know the science is evolving but my god the average American who doesn't neurotically follow this is not understanding that and this whiplash on everything is getting really old.
Masks: we don't know, no masks, masks
Vaccinations: they don't protect other people, yours done, you don't even need a mask, kidding wear your mask as you might still be a super spreader
There are probably more, I guess mostly @ related.
I like to think of myself as logical and data driven etc but I am emotionally at a place where I am saying fuck it, I'll do what I want, because next month y'all will just change your minds again.
*I will follow whatever guidance, this is about FEELINGS.
This is exactly how I feel. I’ve followed the science the whole time and will continue to do so. I will put my mask back on. But FFS this is feeling very unsustainable and I really want to say eff it I’ll do what I want now.
We are at 70% of eligible residents having received at least one shot, but transmission is trending up. We are also a county a lot of people visit on vacation so there are lots of people traveling through. LA tried to “require” a 10 day quarantine if you came in from outside SoCal back in the winter, but I’m guessing it wasn’t super effective. I am sure there are areas of the country with low transmission rates and high vaccination rates that are summer vacation destinations. I’d hate for them to get hit with a big uptick in cases because of unvaxxed unmasked visitors when their community is doing so well. A nationwide mask mandate through the travel season could help with that.
We are at 70% of eligible residents having received at least one shot, but transmission is trending up. We are also a county a lot of people visit on vacation so there are lots of people traveling through. LA tried to “require” a 10 day quarantine if you came in from outside SoCal back in the winter, but I’m guessing it wasn’t super effective. I am sure there are areas of the country with low transmission rates and high vaccination rates that are summer vacation destinations. I’d hate for them to get hit with a big uptick in cases because of unvaxxed unmasked visitors when their community is doing so well. A nationwide mask mandate through the travel season could help with that.
The big outbreak in Provincetown, MA is a good example of this. Most of the hundreds of people infected were vaccinated. BUT, that doesn't tell us much if we don't have numbers on how many vaccinated people were there versus how many unvaccinated people were there, and we will probably never know. That's the tricky part. MA has very high vax rates, and Provincetown is probably higher than most of MA, plus people traveling there may be more likely to be vaccinated too.
We can mask up anywhere and it's NBD, but restaurants will still be an issue. But I don't want restaurants shut down either again...
There is a lot of anger at those not vaccinated by choice being expressed by my coworkers today. I'm having this convo a lot because I'm wearing a mask in office and getting questions. (My county is currently at 60% vaxx'd)
Looks like the states hit hardest by Delta early on are starting to come down. This is fascinating to me. There has to be something other than vaccines/masks/variants causing these huge spikes followed by a fast drop.
I hope that trend holds and happens elsewhere very soon.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Jul 28, 2021 10:56:37 GMT -5
H's office pushed back their open date again. He started there in 7/2020 and has had 3 or 4 return to office dates. Most recently it was fall 2021, now it's January 2022. He's never seen the inside of his office.
Post by neverfstop on Jul 28, 2021 10:57:35 GMT -5
For those wondering about high vs. low... ETA: from the above article www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/briefing/mask-guidance-cdc-vaccinated.html The headline is "A Confusing Message / The C.D.C. recommends indoor masking for the vaccinated, but only in some places." The article doesn't really define what "transmission" is and says that the messaging from the WH and CDC are creating confusion.
Looks like the states hit hardest by Delta early on are starting to come down. This is fascinating to me. There has to be something other than vaccines/masks/variants causing these huge spikes followed by a fast drop.
I hope that trend holds and happens elsewhere very soon.
My theory, because you're right, it always happens:
1) Natural immunity (all those people who just got covid aren't getting infected again right away) 2) Exposed contacts needing to quarantine (yes, I know some don't follow it 100% or at all but I am sure there's some broad impact anyway) 3) Self-enforcement of behaviors that we know work (people may stay home more, avoid socializing for a bit, keep more physical distance from people, put on masks more, etc.)
ETA: Was Michigan one of your examples? Because I remember in the early spring they were getting hit hard again. Now they're not seeing the same upticks as many other states.
Looks like the states hit hardest by Delta early on are starting to come down. This is fascinating to me. There has to be something other than vaccines/masks/variants causing these huge spikes followed by a fast drop.
I hope that trend holds and happens elsewhere very soon.
My theory, because you're right, it always happens:
1) Natural immunity (all those people who just got covid aren't getting infected again right away) 2) Exposed contacts needing to quarantine (yes, I know some don't follow it 100% or at all but I am sure there's some broad impact anyway) 3) Self-enforcement of behaviors that we know work (people may stay home more, avoid socializing for a bit, keep more physical distance from people, put on masks more, etc.)
ETA: Was Michigan one of your examples? Because I remember in the early spring they were getting hit hard again. Now they're not seeing the same upticks as many other states.
Missouri, Tennessee, and Arkansas. No link but this is from Gottlieb’s Twitter. You are right. Michigan isn’t being hit as hard this time. I wonder if it is just human behavior? I feel like it’s not but even here i have seen more masks.
UK and Israel are seeing a huge drop, too. I just really need to believe this will happen here, too. And hope the vaccination uptake went are seeing continues.
I wonder if Delta is causing way more asymptomatic cases in vaccinated (and maybe some unvaccinated) folx than we’re picking up. Is it possible that this strain is so contagious that it’s burning itself out that quickly? Is this how we hit herd immunity?
I wonder if Delta is causing way more asymptomatic cases in vaccinated (and maybe some unvaccinated) folx than we’re picking up. Is it possible that this strain is so contagious that it’s burning itself out that quickly? Is this how we hit herd immunity?
I wonder if Delta is causing way more asymptomatic cases in vaccinated (and maybe some unvaccinated) folx than we’re picking up. Is it possible that this strain is so contagious that it’s burning itself out that quickly? Is this how we hit herd immunity?
That's what I was always wondering too....I assume that most asymptomatic people are NOT being tested regularly unless the work somewhere that requires routine testing.
Post by 1confused1 on Jul 28, 2021 13:09:29 GMT -5
My workplace just instituted a mask mandate again for everyone. I'm in California and am so curious if we will have to shelter in place again in the near future.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jul 28, 2021 13:14:06 GMT -5
I might be in the minority here but with more known about the virus now and vaccines available to anybody who wants them and is eligible, I think shelter in place should be an absolute last resort to be mandated during hospitalization surges. ETA: I feel like that last sentence isn't clear. Basically I think hospital surges should be the only reason we implement shelter in place, to keep them from getting or remaining overwhelmed.
I might be in the minority here but with more known about the virus now and vaccines available to anybody who wants them and is eligible, I think shelter in place should be an absolute last resort to be mandated during hospitalization surges.
I agree. I think it's totally unacceptable to do it again for multiple reasons.
My workplace just instituted a mask mandate again for everyone. I'm in California and am so curious if we will have to shelter in place again in the near future.
I really really doubt it. First people are over it and won’t listen and there are real economic affects from this. There’s a lot of pressure for schools to be fully open and for people to be back at work. I think the push will continue to be to vaccinate people with probably more mandates.
There is a lot of anger at those not vaccinated by choice being expressed by my coworkers today. I'm having this convo a lot because I'm wearing a mask in office and getting questions. (My county is currently at 60% vaxx'd)
I'm angry at them. I'm tired of having to worry/adjust/shift all the time because murican freedom. I'm back to masking, because we have an awful lot riding on getting negative tests in a few days.