5 year olds? Come commiserate with me

[raangoli]

I feel like I have had a post about this before, but I've seen a few posts where kids around BB's age are in a phase where they are "tough to parent".

I get it. She's not a baby anymore, but she's also not a "big" kid. We let her flex boundaries where it is reasonable, but man sometimes she just keeps pushing. That is probably our mistake. We shouldn't let her do that. 

We let her be involved with decision making - giving her choices that we are comfortable with and letting her decide the path forward, etc.

She is often in her own world and it takes forever to get her to do a simple task. We have to ask multiple times. Or I have to do it with her. She's fully capable to do these things on her own. She says she doesn't like to be alone. 

She fights bedtime like it is her job (which as a kid, it kind of is). Or will wake up in the MOTN and say she had a "bad dream" and call for us. 

I assume this is all just a phase and will pass. Please tell me I am not alone in this. 

[Susie]

We don't have the MOTN stuff, but otherwise, yeah, also with a 5 year old. DD has been really tough lately, she wants to do everything "her way," which... when she does not know how to swim or tie her shoes and I'm trying to teach her, works out really badly. There's tons of not listening, tons of us telling her to do X, and her ignoring it and saying "but I want to do Y" and pushing ahead doing Y. Not everything is a negotiation, and not every decision can be made by consensus, kid. When we say stop at the stop sign on our bikes, IDGAF if you "wanted to keep going." I said stop, so you stop.

The stalling at bedtime is the worst. She's super clingy (like physically clinging) most of the rest of the time. She is constantly leaving her ish everywhere, all over the house. I can't understand how one person can sprinkle so many shoes, socks, books, toys, etc. around a house, dishes around the kitchen, and toothpaste around a bathroom. She is completely oblivious, and I'm so, so frustrated.

[Mrs.flang]

Aug 2, 2021 15:19:46 GMT -5 raangoli said:

She is often in her own world and it takes forever to get her to do a simple task. We have to ask multiple times. Or I have to do it with her. She's fully capable to do these things on her own. She says she doesn't like to be alone. 

We are so here with L, she turns 5 tomorrow.  Not too long ago I endured an almost hour long tantrum because she would not help me pick up her toys.  I try to do it "with" her to get her going and I literally would have accepted if she put one tiny toy back into a bucket but she absolutely refused and didn't get to do whatever the next thing was that she had asked to do.

I'm finding it more and more difficult on the weekends with her to keep up with her energy level - I don't know where she gets it from! She doesn't nap even at daycare anymore, and doesn't go to bed until 9pm.  Its soooooo exhausting.

[keweenawlove]

DD is 4 1/2 and we've had an awful streak of bedtimes. She fights it like no other because she wants to stay up or go to bed in ours. After an hour long call with a psychologist, among other things, we started using melatonin which has been a godsend. Her getting better sleep has made so many things better.

[raangoli]

Ugh, sorry Susie . There is a lot of clinging here too. This AM MH said he had to peel her off of him at drop off. There are a lot of "can you carry me?" "can I get an uppy hug?"

Which I do - because I won't always be able to carry or lift her. But man, I just want some space and to not be touched all the time.


Mrs.flang, I feel like we have had similar tantrums here too. The other day she took out something of mine to play with and when we asked her to put it away she said it's not hers so she's not going to. Say what now? That's not how this works. You took it out, you put it back.


keweenawlove, I have thought about melatonin but I really don't want to start a habit. We have a screen free meditation device she has that should help her wind down. It works sometimes. 

[mbcdefg]

C isn’t five until next year, but she’s definitely pushing boundaries and becoming more defiant. A lot of “carry me!” as well. Hugs, friend.

[bcv513]

I’m getting a lot of “hold me” and “carry me” from C lately. She’s very emotional too. Lots of tears when she can’t find something or I tell her to do something.

My new favorite is that she has started calling me “the torturer” because I make her do “everything except cook and drive”. This is a direct quote and she tells everyone we see. I just say “yes and as soon as you can reach the pedals you’re driving too!”

[keweenawlove]

raangoli, I had the same concerns on forming a habit but after taking with the psychologist, a pediatric physical therapist, and pediatrician (the one who gave the official recommendation), it was best for us. So many things just seem to go off the rails for everyone with bad sleep so we're trying it, especially to get us through the longest sunlight days which seemed to be making things worse.

I'm on a free month trial of Calm right now and we've been trying some of the bedtime stories with moderate success.

[tarajane]

I have three five year olds. Bedtime sucks. A lot.

[krystee]

I started feeling like I was living with a hostage negotiator at 5. Not one single thing could be accepted as is. It HAD to be a negotiation. It was exhausting. Still is that way at almost 6.5, most of the time!

[loira]

BB has been secretly hanging out with A, no doubt.

Yes. 5 is brutal. All she wants to do is tell me how wrong I am, ignore my requests, roll her eyes, and scream if none of the above results in her getting her way. I joke that this phase is part obnoxious tween, part hellbeast, but actually it is not a joke and somebody please come rescue me! H and I are constantly saying how we hope kindergarten takes her down a peg.

Re: bedtime - she starts getting ready for bed at 7pm. We have a fairly lengthy story time, then my rule is that it's "grown up time". She can play in her room but can't come out. I go in around 8:50 to tell her she needs to be in bed and tuck her in. It works okay. At minimum it gives me a good hour to sit and have a nice dinner. It doesn't stop all stalling but it does stop the fighting about getting ready for bed because she knows she gets play time afterwards.

[raangoli]

I didn't want to like posts - bc there is nothing likeable that we are all in this situation. But at least I know it's not just me.

tarajane I can't even imagine how you must feel after bedtime!

Yesterday we implemented a twist to the routine - we do the usual, but then I go check on her after 10 minutes. Then its good night, see you in the morning. She still woke up 2x in the MOTN - once for an itchy bug bite. And once bc of a "bad dream". So the consequence is she loses her video at bath time. But to make sure she stays on time to get to daycare (another pain point) we let her earn it back if she can stay on track, listen, and get out the door on time.

[dcn]

Mmmm hmmmm. My 5 year old just screams NO!!! at me all day. Exhausting after the last 17 months is an understatement. The arguing and negotiating with his 8 year old brother is in a whole other level. I’ve started giving an answer once and then just saying “I already answered that, I’m not discussing it anymore.” The 5 yo screams and cries but generally gets over it quickly.

Sorry about the motn wake ups, those are so hard. Mine is definitely pushing it at bedtime, I have H handle it. He is much better at holding boundaries and therefore ds2 pushes, but generally gets into bed and stays there. For now - who knows what is to come!

He is starting kindergarten in two weeks, so I think some of the recent stuff is nervousness about that, and the changes to come. Ds1 did the same thing, and so I know this phase will end - just in time for a new one

[abs]

I remember 5 had a few rough patches. Bedtime in particular got very complicated. All of the sudden DD developed real fears and she needed this really complicated routine to go to sleep. She would also wake up in the MOTN with a nightmare at least once a week.

I also remember of all things shoes being a huge issue at that age. For whatever reason it just took her forever to get her shoes on but she wouldn't accept any help. 5 is definitely an age where more independence is emerging and it takes them awhile to figure it out. Giving choices helped a lot.

All in all though I have found the elementary ages to be an absolute delight. There have of course been rough patches here and there and stages I hated but overall it's been great. Now the tween stage is coming and I am not impressed, lol. So it's always something. I hope things settle in soon for you.

[luv2rn4fun]

Aug 2, 2021 22:10:08 GMT -5 krystee said:

I started feeling like I was living with a hostage negotiator at 5. Not one single thing could be accepted as is. It HAD to be a negotiation. It was exhausting. Still is that way at almost 6.5, most of the time!

Same! My 6.5yo is so much for challenging than my nearly 5yo (but DS1 also has ASD and it contributes a lot). He also can’t handle DS2 doing his own thing or having his ideas if they go against how he thinks it should go…way too much bossiness. School starts in 2 weeks and it will be a nice break for everyone to have some time apart!

[luv2rn4fun]

Aug 3, 2021 6:43:39 GMT -5 raangoli said:

I didn't want to like posts - bc there is nothing likeable that we are all in this situation. But at least I know it's not just me.

tarajane I can't even imagine how you must feel after bedtime!

Yesterday we implemented a twist to the routine - we do the usual, but then I go check on her after 10 minutes. Then its good night, see you in the morning. She still woke up 2x in the MOTN - once for an itchy bug bite. And once bc of a "bad dream". So the consequence is she loses her video at bath time. But to make sure she stays on time to get to daycare (another pain point) we let her earn it back if she can stay on track, listen, and get out the door on time.

Sorry about the MOTN wakeups. DS2 goes in phases of this (he’s almost 5 and has always been a horrible night sleeper…probably more my fault than his because I always just dealt with it so DS1 didn’t wake up…he needs his sleep or he’s even more of a mess to deal with). Anyways, simply offering him a sticker in the morning changes it around quickly. Maybe have her “earn” the tv time for good MOTN? Rewards always work better than consequences (for both boys).

[ellipses84]

I’m finding early 5 really tough, which caught me by surprise. DS1 was so easy by this age even though we’d had a lot of changes for him at that age (flood, moving, new brother, SAH with me for summer, new school). DS2 was such an easy baby and challenging toddler. It seemed like he was finally growing out of the toddler phase. In some things in the past 6 months, like academically, he’s progressed rapidly but he’s regressed in behavior.

His sensory issues have gotten more extreme and we got a referral to OT last week. Our pediatrician flat out asked me if I think he’s on the autism spectrum (his oldest half-brother is and my brother is but he’s not a blood relative so I’m very familiar with it). I honestly don’t think he is, and most of his behavior issues relate to sensory issues, which everyone in our immediate family has. I’ve wondered about ADHD or other issues that one of his cousins have (they are a lot alike). He is extremely well behaved at school though so that was reassuring to the pedi and she said if he is on the spectrum it’s very mild.

For changes for him, we moved to a new house in November and his small preschool has had a ton of changes with staff leaving so he’s basically had periods with every teacher there in the past year. He got a kindle for Christmas and has probably had too much screen time, which I think drastically impacts his behavior too, so we need to be stricter than we were with his brother.

Almost every night he wakes up and comes to our bed. Lots of fears about the dark or saying he wants to snuggle us. He’s definitely a physical kid who needs closeness but DS1 is like that too.

ETA: Both kids have had bedtime issues / don’t sleep much so we did start using 1 mg melatonin with DS2 last summer. I’m hoping once he is in school full time with no naps we can use it less. That’s when bedtime issues got better for DS1.

[ellipses84]

[mention]dcn2006 [/mention] I can relate to everything you wrote! And reading others posts makes me feel like most of what we are experiencing is normal.

[raangoli]

luv2rn4fun, Yes! We have her earn the videos - I know in my post it sounded like the opposite but it was definitely a "if you follow the rules for sleep time, then you get your videos". Since she didn't, she didn't earn the videos but we gave her another chance to earn them back. It definitely helped us be on time this morning.

ellipses84, I have wondered about ADD with her. Mostly because of her prematurity. MH says he thinks she is fine and I just have the neonatologist's voice in my head from the first time we met her in the NICU. It is hard though to not wonder. She definitely is in the phase of having fears about the dark, everything and wanting to be snuggled. So I do each morning after she wakes. It's our special snuggle time where she curls onto my lap, I rock in the chair in her room, rub her back and tell her stories I make up. It's part of her wake up routine. It helps a bit to get her going in the morning.

[osulori]

AJ is 8 now but the bedtime stalling started when he was 4ish and really peaked after he turned 5. It didn't help that due to my husband's work schedule I'm flying solo at bedtime 5 nights/week and was just trying to survive. We started melatonin maybe a few months after his 5th birthday and that stuff has been a godsend. Overall I feel like 5 was all about pushing boundaries so we had to figure out what was nonnegotiable and what we could give a little bit on.

[ellipses84]

This might sound ridiculous but I was so tired of nagging kids who don’t listen, I started a special rewards chart for listening to mom the first time (for both kids, but mostly for the 5 year old and it helps when his brother models good behavior and gets a point). If I have to ask twice, no point. It’s on the side of a fridge so I use it for eating meals / cleaning up a lot, exceptionally good / quick listening of if they listened on the first try and remind me / ask if they earned a point. If their dad thinks they should get points, I have to approve it later when they tell me about their good behavior why they think they earned a point. Points never get taken away. It’s been a couple weeks and they only have 30 points each (but we really don’t add points for everything). Once they earn 100 they can pick a toy or book from the store (which also helps defer those requests). Despite their low points, it has helped.

[gt7301b]

Bedtime takes forever. I have yet to find a way to speed up the process. It takes him forever to get his PJs on and I could just do it for him, but then he doesn't learn. It is hard for me to find one specific thing to help speed up the process.

I do have to say that even with all the 5 year old drama and slowness getting ready I enjoy hanging out with him much more at this age.

[rebneen]

Aug 3, 2021 16:19:53 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

This might sound ridiculous but I was so tired of nagging kids who don’t listen, I started a special rewards chart for listening to mom the first time (for both kids, but mostly for the 5 year old and it helps when his brother models good behavior and gets a point). If I have to ask twice, no point. It’s on the side of a fridge so I use it for eating meals / cleaning up a lot, exceptionally good / quick listening of if they listened on the first try and remind me / ask if they earned a point. If their dad thinks they should get points, I have to approve it later when they tell me about their good behavior why they think they earned a point. Points never get taken away. It’s been a couple weeks and they only have 30 points each (but we really don’t add points for everything). Once they earn 100 they can pick a toy or book from the store (which also helps defer those requests). Despite their low points, it has helped.

I love this idea to reward for listening the first time. I’ve been telling DD and DS lately that when i have to ask them over and over it uses up my patience and I don’t feel like doing fun things.