American shoppers are a nightmare

[goldengirlz]

This seems like an article for this board:

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/pandemic-american-shoppers-nightmare/619650/

“The experience of buying a new television or a double cheeseburger in a store has gotten worse in your lifetime. It’s gotten worse for the people selling TVs and burgers too. The most immediate culprit is decades of cost-cutting; by increasing surveillance and pressure on workers during shifts, reducing their hours and benefits, and not replacing those who quit, executives can shine up a business’s balance sheet in a hurry.”


And a bit of history:

“Retailers won over this growing middle class by convincing its members that they were separate from—and opposed to—industrial workers and their distrust of corporate power, Leach argues. Department stores used tools such as credit accounts to encourage people to imagine the better life they deserved and to spend aspirationally. For the price of customers’ purchases, the stores’ legions of service workers gave the newly flush a sense of superiority, as well as a readily accessible group of inferiors on which to impose it.”

[winecat]

I shouldn't have come into this post. Does the tone of the article change? If it doesn't, I'm not sure I can read it. Your second quote is what is breaking me.

[goldengirlz]

Aug 4, 2021 15:59:25 GMT -5 winecat said:

I shouldn't have come into this post. Does the tone of the article change? If it doesn't, I'm not sure I can read it. Your second quote is what is breaking me.

It’s a pretty brutal read. It goes into why Americans can’t seem to let go of tipping culture and ends by circling back to how the pandemic exacerbated the class divide.

It also talks about how companies themselves are part of the problem by lavishly rewarding their most loyal/valuable customers and reducing service for everyone else (airlines being the classic example of this.)

[sakoro]

Oh man, this paragraph:

Even before the pandemic pushed things to further extremes, the primacy of consumer identity made customer-service interactions particularly conflagratory. Being corrected by a salesperson, forgotten by a bartender, or brushed off by a flight attendant isn’t just an annoyance—for many people, it is an existential threat to their self-understanding. “How many kinds of status do most of us actually have?” Strasser, the historian, asked me. “The notion that at the restaurant, you’re better than the waiters, it becomes part of the restaurant experience,” and also part of how some patrons understand their place in the world.

I personally hate those “experiences” where service workers are forced to suck up to me or either act subservient or like my best friend.

How can businesses combat this if consumers are so used to this in every other aspect of their commercial lives?


And this quote:

[During the pandemic] Americans were confronted with how little control they actually have over so many parts of life that normally feature the illusion of personal choice—health, government, safety, technology, travel. The truly wealthy and powerful had skipped town to their remote summer homes or ski chalets, many with their actual servants in tow, leaving the rest of us to rot. Agitated and desperate, many people turned to the realm in which they have long been promised the opportunity to exercise control.

I think this extends to the way Americans have treated teachers this past year. Many of my mom’s teacher colleagues retired citing angry parents and extreme stress trying to figure out how to teach during a pandemic.

[Aquatica]

Although underpaid, poorly treated service workers certainly exist around the world, American expectations on their behavior are particularly extreme and widespread...

This stood out to me a lot. I have unfortunately seen how quite a few Americans in my overseas community treat service workers internationally. The complaining and refusal to take the time to learn how the service industry works in a new place is appalling and shows just how entitled and lazy people can be. I haven't been in the US during the pandemic but I've been watching it get worse from afar.

It's sad that people can't just let things go and hold service workers to such high expectations where it feels like they can't make a mistake (and if they did, they must have done it purpose because they don't like them even though they don't know them...). I would like to service workers to be able to go on a 'strike' of some sort. I want improved treatment and businesses to do away with the saying "the customer is always right". I feel like that saying/phrase has assisted in allowing this to happen. Rarely do I see customers held at fault for their behavior.

I was very lucky when I did work in thw service industry that I had some great managers that stood up for our staff. They would ask customers to leave if they became aggressive/irrate, or cursed at us. We were td we could refuse service and disengage if someone made us feel unsafe and they would handle it. This was back during the 2006+ time period.

[notsopicky]

Aug 4, 2021 21:39:54 GMT -5 sakoro said:

Oh man, this paragraph:

Even before the pandemic pushed things to further extremes, the primacy of consumer identity made customer-service interactions particularly conflagratory. Being corrected by a salesperson, forgotten by a bartender, or brushed off by a flight attendant isn’t just an annoyance—for many people, it is an existential threat to their self-understanding. “How many kinds of status do most of us actually have?” Strasser, the historian, asked me. “The notion that at the restaurant, you’re better than the waiters, it becomes part of the restaurant experience,” and also part of how some patrons understand their place in the world.

I personally hate those “experiences” where service workers are forced to suck up to me or either act subservient or like my best friend.

How can businesses combat this if consumers are so used to this in every other aspect of their commercial lives?


And this quote:

[During the pandemic] Americans were confronted with how little control they actually have over so many parts of life that normally feature the illusion of personal choice—health, government, safety, technology, travel. The truly wealthy and powerful had skipped town to their remote summer homes or ski chalets, many with their actual servants in tow, leaving the rest of us to rot. Agitated and desperate, many people turned to the realm in which they have long been promised the opportunity to exercise control.

@@@i think this extends to the way Americans have treated teachers this past year. Many of my mom’s teacher colleagues retired citing angry parents and extreme stress trying to figure out how to teach during a pandemic.

@@@

This has NEVER made sense to me (educator, 26+ years)--why do parents treat teachers so terribly? You are entrusting us to teach your kids for 7+ hours a day for 180+ days, but you don't trust us? You don't think we care about your kids? You don't think we are capable of doing our jobs? So why do you send them to us?

Re: treatment of teachers and consideration of schools, the best way I've ever heard it explained is that almost every person in this country has experience with schooling, so every person thinks they know best how it does/should work. And add in that there are so many competing interests, you are never going to please all of the people all of the time. Hell, it seems we can't even please a small fraction of the people 10% of the time. 

The pandemic definitely showed all of the above, in the most public (nasty) way possible (e.g. social media, the regular media, school board meetings, "open schools"/"unmask our kids" protests/rallies).  

[wawa]

I'm struggling with the demographics being discussed in this article.
Like service workers are a huge part of our population. But then it talks about "americans" as a class aside from service workers, and also exclusive of rich Americans.

So we're exclusively talking about middle class Americans as being shitty customers? Middle to upper middle? How high and low does "consumer class" go? Are service workers shitty customers too? I'm not saying i neccessarily disagree with anything here (still mulling it over), I just dont' love calling out specific classes but then referring to the big middle as just "Americans" in an unqualified way.

side note: based on the stories MH tells about working at a private club on a gated island - the rich fuckers are indeed often fuckers too. Maybe a different flavor, but still shitty. (my fave story was the regular who would come 15 minutes before closing, order soup, not eat said soup until his wife arrived 20 minutes later (i.e. after closing) and then snippily inform the waiter (i.e. MH) that the soup was cold. Inconsiderate people are inconsiderate.

[Poppy]

I am still digesting this article, too.

To me, it seems like people are being a-holes at a much higher rate than usual across the board.

Certainly service workers have less agency to remove themselves from toxic situations or to stick up for themselves, as they are ordered to represent the company. That's a problem. Especially when these entitled (bordering on or full on abusive) jerks recognize the power differential and exploit it.

And I also agree that businesses have created the conditions for extra tension by understaffing and by making shopping or flying conditions miserable in a bid to lower costs.

[goldengirlz]

Aug 5, 2021 9:00:34 GMT -5 wawa said:

I'm struggling with the demographics being discussed in this article.
Like service workers are a huge part of our population. But then it talks about "americans" as a class aside from service workers, and also exclusive of rich Americans.

So we're exclusively talking about middle class Americans as being shitty customers? Middle to upper middle? How high and low does "consumer class" go? Are service workers shitty customers too? I'm not saying i neccessarily disagree with anything here (still mulling it over), I just dont' love calling out specific classes but then referring to the big middle as just "Americans" in an unqualified way.

side note: based on the stories MH tells about working at a private club on a gated island - the rich fuckers are indeed often fuckers too. Maybe a different flavor, but still shitty. (my fave story was the regular who would come 15 minutes before closing, order soup, not eat said soup until his wife arrived 20 minutes later (i.e. after closing) and then snippily inform the waiter (i.e. MH) that the soup was cold. Inconsiderate people are inconsiderate.

I think he’s saying that it’s part of our consumerism culture, the same culture that tells us that spending money is a patriotic duty because it stimulates our economy. Spending IS class in America. And the implicit deal is that if you spend money, you should expect to be treated like royalty for the duration of the experience; it’s a marketing ploy on the one hand but also a sinister part of how Americans are raised to understand where we fit in the social hierarchy. The more you spend, the greater your expectations of luxurious service (regardless of whether you’re ultra-wealthy or running up credit card debt). So what we’re seeing transcends class in that sense — however, he does point out that the service class is disproportionately from historically marginalized groups so it’s not just theatrics; it also reinforces other ways that we think about class/hierarchies in our society.

[sonrisa]

Aug 4, 2021 21:39:54 GMT -5 sakoro said:

br]

The truly wealthy and powerful had skipped town to their remote summer homes or ski chalets, many with their actual servants in tow, leaving the rest of us to rot. Agitated and desperate, many people turned to the realm in which they have long been promised the opportunity to exercise control.

this quote is so funny because it reeks of the writer’s privilege. Most Americans didn’t watch the truly wealthy and powerful skip town with their staff. Most Americans don’t live in close contact with the truly wealthy nor do they live their lives with the illusion that the truly wealthy are like them. You can’t be ‘left to rot’ by someone you either never interact with or interact with but never felt any sense of kinship or community that could be shattered when they left.

[lemoncupcake]

Aug 5, 2021 12:05:16 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Aug 4, 2021 21:39:54 GMT -5 sakoro said:

br]

this quote is so funny because it reeks of the writer’s privilege. Most Americans didn’t watch the truly wealthy and powerful skip town. Most Americans don’t live in close contact with the truly wealthy nor do they live their lives with the illusion that the truly wealthy are like them. You can’t be ‘left to rot’ by someone you either never interact with or interact with but never felt any sense of kinship or community that could be shattered when they left.

Seriously. I live a pretty privileged existence with similarly privileged people and I don’t know anyone with a fucking chalet. People went on air bnb trips to Colorado or Taos, sure. But that’s not the same.

[Poppy]

Aug 5, 2021 12:32:49 GMT -5 lemoncupcake said:

Aug 5, 2021 12:05:16 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

this quote is so funny because it reeks of the writer’s privilege. Most Americans didn’t watch the truly wealthy and powerful skip town. Most Americans don’t live in close contact with the truly wealthy nor do they live their lives with the illusion that the truly wealthy are like them. You can’t be ‘left to rot’ by someone you either never interact with or interact with but never felt any sense of kinship or community that could be shattered when they left.

Seriously. I live a pretty privileged existence with similarly privileged people and I don’t know anyone with a fucking chalet. People went on air bnb trips to Colorado or Taos, sure. But that’s not the same.

I don't know anyone personally either, but I do remember several celebrities/public figures taking heat for this via the news media or social media.

Chris Christie, Ivanka/Kushners, Madonna, JLo etc

[tacokick]

Aug 5, 2021 12:05:16 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Aug 4, 2021 21:39:54 GMT -5 sakoro said:

br]

this quote is so funny because it reeks of the writer’s privilege. Most Americans didn’t watch the truly wealthy and powerful skip town. Most Americans don’t live in close contact with the truly wealthy nor do they live their lives with the illusion that the truly wealthy are like them. You can’t be ‘left to rot’ by someone you either never interact with or interact with but never felt any sense of kinship or community that could be shattered when they left.

Amanda Mull lives in NYC. I think that skews and explains her perspective a little, our not wealthy family and friends there talked about how much the city cleared out of even middle class people when they went “home” to their home states or to family places outside of the city. They didn’t leave but said pretty much anyone they knew who could work remotely did leaving mainly the in-person workers. These weren’t super wealthy people leaving but they were people who left that they normally saw every day.

They said it was really eye opening who had “secret” money too. Coworkers at their 60k/year job who suddenly had houses “upstate” or could rent a second place for months.

[tacokick]

Aug 5, 2021 11:04:02 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Aug 5, 2021 9:00:34 GMT -5 wawa said:

I'm struggling with the demographics being discussed in this article.
Like service workers are a huge part of our population. But then it talks about "americans" as a class aside from service workers, and also exclusive of rich Americans.

So we're exclusively talking about middle class Americans as being shitty customers? Middle to upper middle? How high and low does "consumer class" go? Are service workers shitty customers too? I'm not saying i neccessarily disagree with anything here (still mulling it over), I just dont' love calling out specific classes but then referring to the big middle as just "Americans" in an unqualified way.

side note: based on the stories MH tells about working at a private club on a gated island - the rich fuckers are indeed often fuckers too. Maybe a different flavor, but still shitty. (my fave story was the regular who would come 15 minutes before closing, order soup, not eat said soup until his wife arrived 20 minutes later (i.e. after closing) and then snippily inform the waiter (i.e. MH) that the soup was cold. Inconsiderate people are inconsiderate.

I think he’s saying that it’s part of our consumerism culture, the same culture that tells us that spending money is a patriotic duty because it stimulates our economy. Spending IS class in America. And the implicit deal is that if you spend money, you should expect to be treated like royalty for the duration of the experience; it’s a marketing ploy on the one hand but also a sinister part of how Americans are raised to understand where we fit in the social hierarchy. The more you spend, the greater your expectations of luxurious service (regardless of whether you’re ultra-wealthy or running up credit card debt). So what we’re seeing transcends class in that sense — however, he does point out that the service class is disproportionately from historically marginalized groups so it’s not just theatrics; it also reinforces other ways that we think about class/hierarchies in our society.

I think that’s what she is trying to say too. The piece seemed kind of rushed or weirdly edited down to me.

One of the things that stood out to me over the last year and a half is how people were so wound up over not being able to dine in restaurants. That’s totally something tied to wanting service and being served. If you can’t cook, you could get take out but no, people were irate that they couldn’t sit in a restaurant. Clearly they didn’t care about being at risk or being around unmasked people so why not get the same food and eat it at home or at the park or wherever with whoever you want?

I mean, I like restaurants and even dining alone at them as much as the next person but one can make an adjustment.

[ssmjlm]

There was a federal lawsuit during COVID from non-resident homeowners and the county where we have our beach house. Basically they were whining and complaining that the county closed the borders because it doesn't have the healthcare structure to handle an influx of people plus COVID. As a non-resident owner, I completely understood their stance, but the courts sided with the owners.

There is 1 hospital, they don't even always have enough L&D beds, but sure, you head down to your beach house to isolate.

[cattledogkisses]

I always feel bad when policies are implemented at a state or national level and the poor service workers have to deal with the brunt of peoples' wrath. My state recently banned single-use plastic bags, and the new law requires businesses to charge $0.05 for a paper or reusable bag. I was in Ulta the other day watching some lady berate the sales associate over being charged 5 cents for a bag, saying it was bad business practices, wanting to talk to the manager... just basically being awful. The poor sales associate kept repeating, "Ma'am, it's state law..." I felt so bad. Hey Karen, neither the sales associate nor her manager can do anything about a state law. If you have a problem with it, talk to your state rep.

[chw57]

Aug 5, 2021 10:15:31 GMT -5 jennyparnassus said:

Aug 5, 2021 9:00:34 GMT -5 wawa said:

I'm struggling with the demographics being discussed in this article.
Like service workers are a huge part of our population. But then it talks about "americans" as a class aside from service workers, and also exclusive of rich Americans.

So we're exclusively talking about middle class Americans as being shitty customers? Middle to upper middle? How high and low does "consumer class" go? Are service workers shitty customers too? I'm not saying i neccessarily disagree with anything here (still mulling it over), I just dont' love calling out specific classes but then referring to the big middle as just "Americans" in an unqualified way.

side note: based on the stories MH tells about working at a private club on a gated island - the rich fuckers are indeed often fuckers too. Maybe a different flavor, but still shitty. (my fave story was the regular who would come 15 minutes before closing, order soup, not eat said soup until his wife arrived 20 minutes later (i.e. after closing) and then snippily inform the waiter (i.e. MH) that the soup was cold. Inconsiderate people are inconsiderate.

Yeah, in my world, the service workers come from the same families as the people being served.

Like, my family was middle class. My dad taught high school. When I was seventeen, I started working at Wendy's. Then, in college, I worked in customer service at a library. Then, when I got out of college, I worked at Wal Mart until I could find an office job.

I know a lot of households that include both retail and / or restaurant workers, and also household members who work in offices.

And, even though I worked in public-facing customer service jobs in the past, I fully own (even though I'm not proud of it) that I have in the past been a shitty customer when I was on the customer end of things. 

It just seems really weird of me to lump all "customers" together as one social class. 

When I had just graduated from college and was student teaching, I had a weekend job in a woman’s clothing store. I overheard a mom telling her daughter as I was cleaning up the dressing rooms “this is why you’re in college…so you don’t have to do that.” So obnoxious.

[bronxgirl]

In a few weeks I will be flying for the first time in over 2 and a half years. The beginning of this article is scaring me.

[downtoearth]

Aug 5, 2021 13:15:09 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

There was a federal lawsuit during COVID from non-resident homeowners and the county where we have our beach house. Basically they were whining and complaining that the county closed the borders because it doesn't have the healthcare structure to handle an influx of people plus COVID. As a non-resident owner, I completely understood their stance, but the courts sided with the owners.

There is 1 hospital, they don't even always have enough L&D beds, but sure, you head down to your beach house to isolate.

Not to mention that in places with mostly vacation homes, their infrastructure isn’t made to handle year-round use a lot of times. Sooo many nitrate and ecoli/bacteria violations in smaller areas during Covid that were traditionally second homes, but occupied almost continuously that year. Our air quality was better off with Covid, but our groundwater really took one in a lot of areas.

[wise_rita]

Aug 5, 2021 12:33:42 GMT -5 jennyparnassus said:

Aug 5, 2021 10:55:09 GMT -5 Poppy said:

I am still digesting this article, too.

To me, it seems like people are being a-holes at a much higher rate than usual across the board.

Certainly service workers have less agency to remove themselves from toxic situations or to stick up for themselves, as they are ordered to represent the company. That's a problem. Especially when these entitled (bordering on or full on abusive) jerks recognize the power differential and exploit it.

And I also agree that businesses have created the conditions for extra tension by understaffing and by making shopping or flying conditions miserable in a bid to lower costs.

My local Dairy Queen has a sign at their drive-thru pretty much saying something to the effect of, "We have a staffing shortage. Please don't be assholes to our employees."

There are a ton of articles in our local media about how area restaurants are having trouble hiring people right now. In the case of their particular Dairy Queen, I have no idea if their staffing shortage is because they pay less than other restaurants that are very close in proximity, or if their staffing shortage is due to some other reason.  But, I thought that the sign was interesting.  Sadly, I noticed the sign because I go to the Dairy Queen drive-thru about once a week for a Blizzard. 

I have seen dozens of these signs in the Upper Midwest this summer.

I didn't read the article but at the current rate I don't know how many service industry jobs are going to be left. Automation will have to pick up the slack where low wage earners no longer participate.

[sonrisa]

A restaurant we had a reservation at just closed because of staffing shortages. It was o e of two locations and they are concentrating on their main site. It’s the kind of place people might make 3 figures a hour in tips so not just because of being underpaid.