I just keep thinking of that fuckface saying you had to slam a crappy little country against the wall to show the world we’re boss or whatever. I feel like Afghanistan was used like a pawn and all those people like they didn’t matter in the pursuit of whatever the hell our goals were.
640 evacuated on a C17. The picture 😭 There are @s in the picture that might make you tear up. At least they did me (not injured or anything, just the gravity. Especially the one in the lower right)
I know, the videos and pictures of this have been with me all day, at least 2 people fell from the outside of the plane. These pictures make covid seem almost insignificant, but I can’t see that picture and not think about the spread and more loss of life that could happen.
I was not prepared for the video of the two falling. H and I turned on the tv as it was playing. We both sat in shock. I wish I could say I understand why media keeps playing videos of people dying or getting g hurt. I do not. I wish they would stop.
Post by neverfstop on Aug 16, 2021 21:08:41 GMT -5
FUCK FUCK FUCK..... That's really all I've got. We've screwed this up for so long & I feel awful for what America did. Maybe some good for a while as we "held the line", but I feel so guilty for those who trusted in American and really worked hard with us to build a better Afghanistan against the odds.
Yes, I blame our military-mindset, and our myopic "every place in the world must look & function like American democracy and our amazing (over-funded) military" for failing to understand we would never rule or conquer or nation-build in our own way in this poor country.
Yes, other politicians have passed the buck hoping that the situation would get better & somehow be salvageable. Kudos to Biden for being willing to say "ENOUGH" even if they miscalculated the fallout and weren't prepared for the speed of the downfall. He had the courage to do something hard, that was the right thing long-term and the tragic and terrible thing in the short-term.
I know, the videos and pictures of this have been with me all day, at least 2 people fell from the outside of the plane. These pictures make covid seem almost insignificant, but I can’t see that picture and not think about the spread and more loss of life that could happen.
I was not prepared for the video of the two falling. H and I turned on the tv as it was playing. We both sat in shock. I wish I could say I understand why media keeps playing videos of people dying or getting g hurt. I do not. I wish they would stop.
I worry about the crew of that plane, what they must be feeling and what they’re going through right now. I wonder if they’re going to face any disciplinary action (I hope not, but the culture in some Air Force units is not great right now, and they undoubtedly broke lots of rules). I can’t even imagine.
I was not prepared for the video of the two falling. H and I turned on the tv as it was playing. We both sat in shock. I wish I could say I understand why media keeps playing videos of people dying or getting g hurt. I do not. I wish they would stop.
I worry about the crew of that plane, what they must be feeling and what they’re going through right now. I wonder if they’re going to face any disciplinary action (I hope not, but the culture in some Air Force units is not great right now, and they undoubtedly broke lots of rules). I can’t even imagine.
What else could the crew do? They were being mobbed by extremely terrified people. What a terrible situation for everyone on the ground in that situation
I just keep thinking of that fuckface saying you had to slam a crappy little country against the wall to show the world we’re boss or whatever. I feel like Afghanistan was used like a pawn and all those people like they didn’t matter in the pursuit of whatever the hell our goals were.
Well … yeah. It was pretty clear at the time that we launched the conflict in Afghanistan because we felt like we had to do something in response to Sept. 11. We weren’t acting in response to a humanitarian crisis; the war was 100% self-serving.
I took a war and ethics class in college (so this was either immediately after Sept. 11 or within a few years) and we spent nearly the entire semester debating whether “installing democracy” and “rooting out terrorism” justifies invading another country. In some ways, World War II was exceptional because it’s the clearest example of a success story. But mostly we go in, make a mess of things, and then leave the country in question in worse shape than before. And we’ve done this on multiple continents. Having noble goals doesn’t always justify the means (and it’s questionable whether our goals were that noble to begin with.)
I just keep thinking of that fuckface saying you had to slam a crappy little country against the wall to show the world we’re boss or whatever. I feel like Afghanistan was used like a pawn and all those people like they didn’t matter in the pursuit of whatever the hell our goals were.
Well … yeah. It was pretty clear at the time that we launched the conflict in Afghanistan because we felt like we had to do something in response to Sept. 11. We weren’t acting in response to a humanitarian crisis; the war was 100% self-serving.
I took a war and ethics class in college (so this was either immediately after Sept. 11 or within a few years) and we spent nearly the entire semester debating whether “installing democracy” and “rooting out terrorism” justifies invading another country. In some ways, World War II was exceptional because it’s the clearest example of a success story. But mostly we go in, make a mess of things, and then leave the country in question in worse shape than before. And we’ve done this on multiple continents. Having noble goals doesn’t always justify the means (and it’s questionable whether our goals were that noble to begin with.)
I know. It was obvious at the time. Our allies were trying to warn us and instead we switched to freedom fries. And we invaded Iraq that had fuck-all to do with 9/11 because the plans were already drawn up. I’m obviously horrified watching it all happen, but it was so fucking predictable. God damn.
I saw a post from some veteran group supporting Biden, because the he couldn’t back out of the deal with the Taliban that his predecessor made without having them target US troops in retaliation. He delayed it and they should have done better about getting people out safely, but criticism can be said of every president of the past 20 years particularly the one who started the war in misguided retaliation for 9/11.
I don’t think it was all for nothing though. It showed a few generations of people what it was like to not live in oppression, who had never experienced that before. Girls were allowed to be educated. There are female Drs and Mayors. They had access to the rest of the world via technology.
I was not prepared for the video of the two falling. H and I turned on the tv as it was playing. We both sat in shock. I wish I could say I understand why media keeps playing videos of people dying or getting g hurt. I do not. I wish they would stop.
I know:( It reminded of video footage from 9/11.
Yes. It was 9/11 all over again. I’m 41 and not over seeing that. I know that was what they thought was their only way out, like on 9/11 when people jumped. May their souls find peace.
Post by mrsukyankee on Aug 17, 2021 4:35:04 GMT -5
Just to add that the UK gov't is just as complicit and has abdicated their responsibilities so nicely - our Foreign Secretary was on holiday during all of this (hiding per usual), and stating that no one could have foretold what happened (really, you asshole?). Boris Johnson also went on holiday as this was unfolding and stayed there. His interview about it showed just how little he was prepared and how little he gave a "£$^£. I hate our gov't.
Just to add that the UK gov't is just as complicit and has abdicated their responsibilities so nicely - our Foreign Secretary was on holiday during all of this (hiding per usual), and stating that no one could have foretold what happened (really, you asshole?). Boris Johnson also went on holiday as this was unfolding and stayed there. His interview about it showed just how little he was prepared and how little he gave a "£$^£. I hate our gov't.
British friends I served with while on exchange with the RAF are also struggling to make sense of this. They sacrificed just as much as Americans did.
I just want to clarify interpreters are not the only locals that worked on a military base in Afghanistan. I keep seeing "the interpreters". For every 1 service member there were 4 or 5 civilians out there. On my base locals worked at the dfacs, bx, laundry, external guards, cleaning crews, burn pits etc. Any local national who went on a base was watched, monitored, and threatened. The Taliban and thieves watched the entry control points to see who was making US dollar. I had people call off work because the Taliban kidnapped his brother and he had to go pay them off in Pakistan. I've had locals beaten and robbed to just show up to work the next day. What else could they do?
Often, our LNs would pay a driver a lot of money to pick them up all up, trust them to leave their cellphone for the day with them, and drop them off at the gate and do it all over when their shift was over. They got patted down 3x, walked a clearing that had random signals to det any possible hidden explosives, walked thru metal detectors, and could only carry one day's worth of food, cigarettes, and the clothes on their backs. EVERY DAY. normally our workers came on 6 days a week. It takes at least an hour to get on and off post. How do we protect all these people? How do we save them all and their families? It seems impossible.
That would suck to spend 20 years washing underwear for the Americans, just to have all of the Americans back up and leave with just a "Hey, good luck with the Taliban!"
Yep. That is what it feels like is happening. I have a lot of feelings that I can't quite understand right now about what is happening. I don't care who is to blame but more focused on why, how, and what is currently happening and how I can help.
The local news had a snippet of an interview done with a state D Rep who is latinx former helicopter pilot paralyzed during a tour in Afghanistan. He is angry at what is happening.
I think there are going to be a lot of angry men and women in the military who feel as if their service is being belittled because of the current narrative.
I saw a post from some veteran group supporting Biden, because the he couldn’t back out of the deal with the Taliban that his predecessor made without having them target US troops in retaliation. He delayed it and they should have done better about getting people out safely, but criticism can be said of every president of the past 20 years particularly the one who started the war in misguided retaliation for 9/11.
I don’t think it was all for nothing though. It showed a few generations of people what it was like to not live in oppression, who had never experienced that before. Girls were allowed to be educated. There are female Drs and Mayors. They had access to the rest of the world via technology.
I thought this was pretty clear from Biden’s speech. Bush started this. Obama prolonged it. Trump made it worse by negotiating with the Taliban and promising a withdrawal. Biden was in a petty shit spot and based on his past protection of the military, this seems like the only way he could have gone here. But damn, it sucks.
I’m also concerned for vets who fought in Afghanistan. I’d like to think they would not experience the same anger that Vietnam vets did, but we can be pretty shitty people sometimes.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Just to remind people, before the Soviets and the Taliban, Afghanistan had a fairly open society and women were educated, had careers, etc. Watching all that just be wiped away was part of what inspired Atwood to write the Handmaid’s Tale. I’m just seeing a narrative take hold of “well, at least we gave them 20 years to taste freedom” and the actual history (of which I am admittedly not an expert) is much more complicated.
I'm a vet. I, nor any vet I personally know, feel or buy into the "hero fighting for freedom" rhetoric. Most of us are actually quite humble/pragmatic, and, would really rather not even be thanked by average Joe or store clerk who feel the need to comment.
Veterans feel sad because their comrades actually fucking fought and died; in this case - in Afghanistan in particular, only to have it turn out like this.
I'm a vet. I, nor any vet I personally know, feel or buy into the "hero fighting for freedom" rhetoric. Most of us are actually quite humble/pragmatic, and, would really rather not even be thanked by average Joe or store clerk who feel the need to comment.
Veterans feel sad because their comrades actually fucking fought and died; in this case - in Afghanistan in particular, only to have it turn out like this.
This tweet really rubs me the wrong way.
I’m sorry - I shouldn’t have shared it. It was another perspective from a vet I hadn’t considered - but not all views are worth sharing.
Post by thelurkylulu on Aug 19, 2021 11:36:10 GMT -5
The Daily’s podcast today broke me. Some of the translators in the episode filled out paper work in 2015 !!! And some of them aren’t even eligible because they didn’t serve for two full years? This is just such a tragedy and the people who helped our service members deserve better than this.
This whole situation has been so heavy to me - I can't even imagine what it is like to have served, to be serving, or have family and loved ones there.
I'm out of words here. Does this mean had we not honored the 8/31 commitment that 45 made we'd have been attacked by the Taliban AND ISIS? Does it mean if we'd renegotiated to stay longer we would have been attacked by ISIS trying to destabilize the Taliban? Does it mean if we'd refused to leave everyone would have capitulated? Does it mean that nothing means anything? My heart is broken.
Just this morning I'd been reading about how the US had gotten 65k+ people out and our allies another 30k+. And about some armed resistance to the Taliban by Afghans. And thinking that maybe there was some tiny light at the end of this long, horrible, dark tunnel.
Post by dulcemariamar on Aug 26, 2021 16:08:19 GMT -5
I am trying to follow the news but I am not in the States so I am not getting all the reports. Are they talking about the US taking action against the attacks in Kabul? Or will the 31/8 deadline stay?