tacom that is so sad - we are not protecting the people that are put at risk which forces them to take risks. I don't know if it's suspended but we also get in trouble if we call in too much, that shouldn't be in a hospital in general. Stay home when you are sick (and get paid)!
We were going to do a half day company outing/picnic next Wednesday afternoon (we are all still fully remote) and now we are not. BUT they are just giving us the afternoon off instead, which in some ways is better.
This sounds so much more enjoyable rather than forced socializing .
Thank you everyone for the nice thoughts, I've developed some symptoms today (headache, sore throat, chest congestion) but feel generally fine.
I definitely don't think getting Covid is a moral failing, I think everyone who is anti-vax or a Covid denier has a moral failing and I am directing all of my internal wrath at them.
Lol, well, I've only had this job since May, so I haven't met anyone in person yet! They went to a baseball game a few weeks ago, but I was on vacation that week and couldn't go.
Does anybody else wonder if we are going to have a backlash against vaccines in general?
Like all these “medical experts” are going to think “why do I even need a TDAP or MMR? I don’t know anybody who’s had whooping cough or measles. Or polio. Or so many of the stuff we vaccinate for.”
Like, I know there’s more of a protocol about requiring those vaccines and such, but if we have to keep going back to remote and things, it might be harder to keep that in check.
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It's funny (in an ironic sort of way) to me because where I live has always had a pretty robust anti-vax contingent for traditional vaccines, leading to various school outbreaks, but is very well-vaccinated in terms of COVID. So much of this is about your political/social affiliation and not at all about logic.
Post by Velar Fricative on Aug 18, 2021 15:01:18 GMT -5
So because of the summer heat I've been using disposable masks and basically stored away my reusable masks thinking I wouldn't need them anymore except occasionally during flu season. Lolsob. I don't really like my reusable masks that much anyway, any recommendations for me? I'm intrigued by the Baggu masks because of the pleat, maybe making them more comfortable since they sit away from the mouth? I'm not looking for KN95s or anything.
Velar Fricative I recently got some baggu masks and really like them. I feel like the design gives me a nice seal under my jaw and across my nose (has a bendable nosepiece) and the front part does stay off your mouth more than say, old navy's, which is nice. It's still gets hot and humid but at least it's not laying right on your mouth?
I think mandating for nursing homes is correct, but I am worried about how that will affect staffing. I heard on NPR how doctors are like 96% vaccinated as a group, but less than half of "nurses and aides" are vaccinated. I would love to see that broken down more by education level, like BSN RNs vs ADN RNs vs LPN/LVNs vs CNAs/other aides, which may require only a certificate or on the job training. Nursing homes in general aren't staffed the best, and tend to have a lot more LPN/LVN and aid positions, and I suspect those nurses are less vaccinated overall. Even among BSN RNs I would bet there is a good difference between those who started out as nurses after graduating with a BSN compared to those who have done RN to BSN programs because their hospital required it for them to continue working there (many hospitals want to increase their % of nurses with BSN for magnate status, etc).
I think mandating for nursing homes is correct, but I am worried about how that will affect staffing. I heard on NPR how doctors are like 96% vaccinated as a group, but less than half of "nurses and aides" are vaccinated. I would love to see that broken down more by education level, like BSN RNs vs ADN RNs vs LPN/LVNs vs CNAs/other aides, which may require only a certificate or on the job training. Nursing homes in general aren't staffed the best, and tend to have a lot more LPN/LVN and aid positions, and I suspect those nurses are less vaccinated overall. Even among BSN RNs I would bet there is a good difference between those who started out as nurses after graduating with a BSN compared to those who have done RN to BSN programs because their hospital required it for them to continue working there (many hospitals want to increase their % of nurses with BSN for magnate status, etc).
At my facility this is 100% true. SES and education are almost directly predictive of who is vaccinated here (among the staff.) We’re already having staffing issues and I’m sure they will get worse.
I think mandating for nursing homes is correct, but I am worried about how that will affect staffing.
My initial thought is that they can't job hop to another nursing home that doesn't require vaccines, so maybe that will help mitigate staffing turnover.
I think mandating for nursing homes is correct, but I am worried about how that will affect staffing.
My initial thought is that they can't job hop to another nursing home that doesn't require vaccines, so maybe that will help mitigate staffing turnover.
That's true, it has definitely been the case here in Houston that some nurses have moved to other hospitals once theirs require vaccination, but they will be running out of hospitals soon as more continue to mandate it.
I wonder how many nurses will leave the profession over vaccine mandates? Not a majority for sure, but maybe more in certain areas of nursing. Like I said, nursing homes aren't the best for staffing, their pay/benefits aren't particularly great either and there's a lot of burnout there, that could get worse if enough staff decide to just leave nursing altogether or move to private home health or something else where vaccines aren't required. I would think many of those companies would also mandate it but then again, maybe not in certain areas (Texas, Florida).
Post by breezy8407 on Aug 18, 2021 16:55:44 GMT -5
Velar Fricative I prefer the Athleta Everyday masks. Not sure how they rank performance wise, but they've been comfortable. The longest I've worn them is 7ish hours traveling by plane, so I am not sitting in one all day at an office or anything.
Velar Fricative, I really like my Baggu masks, they are very thick, seal tightly to my face and away from my mouth, have a filter pocket and provide a nice shelf for my glasses.
I also have sanctuary masks that are very comfortable (but that's what I was wearing when I caught it so they might need double masking).
Post by litebright on Aug 18, 2021 17:26:47 GMT -5
Have we discussed the CDC info behind the booster shot decision? Apparently there are three studies in the CDC's weekly Morbidity and Mortality report that are the focal point.
From WaPo, highlights. I bolded the ones that jumped out at me.
“Examining numerous cohorts through the end of July and early August, three points are now very clear,” CDC director Rochelle Walensky said at a White House covid-19 news briefing Wednesday. “First, vaccine-induced protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection begins to decrease over time. Second, vaccine effectiveness against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains relatively high. And third, vaccine effectiveness is generally decreased against the delta variant."
All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people.
... Until now, evaluations of vaccine effectiveness amid delta largely relied on observations from outside the United States. ... One U.S. report that has not yet gone through peer review, collecting data from Mayo Clinic Health System facilities in five states, found a drop in the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine’s effectiveness against delta infections to 42 percent. The other mRNA vaccine, made by Moderna, was 76 percent effective.
... The new study from New York is the first to assess vaccine protection against coronavirus infection across the entirety of a U.S. state amid delta. The study authors found a modest drop in effectiveness: It descended from 92 percent in May to 80 percent in late July.
The second of the three studies found effectiveness against infection declined for nursing home residents after delta emerged. It dropped from 75 percent in March through May to 53 percent in June and July. Vaccination for visitors and staff is crucial, the study authors wrote, and “additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine might be considered for nursing home and long-term care facility residents.”
... The third report, an analysis of patients at 21 hospitals in 18 states, found sustained protection against hospitalization. Effectiveness was steady at 86 percent, even in the midsummer months when delta outcompeted other variants of concern. For adults who do not have compromised immune systems, that effectiveness stood at 90 percent.
UGH. Such a mixed bag. Still good on effectiveness in preventing hospitalization, but the one finding Pfizer dropped to 42% effectiveness against delta vs. Moderna still being 76% effective kind of made my stomach drop. And 20% of infections/15% of hospitalizations coming from vaccinated people isn't great either.
Post by goldengirlz on Aug 18, 2021 17:43:32 GMT -5
Huh, my H was right about Moderna after all. He was the only person I knew who said he was more impressed with Moderna’s data than Pfizer’s (I just figured it was because he got Moderna!) I got Moderna because I grabbed the first appointment available at 12:01 am on the day I became eligible but then was kicking myself because it seemed like it had worse side effects.
The biggest difference between the two is the micrograms that each manufacturer used (30 for Pfizer vs. 100 for Moderna.) At the time, some doctors on a forum that I lurked on suggested that Pfizer’s vaccine had the advantage of being able to get the same efficacy using a smaller dosage, but maybe there’s something to be said about that higher dose.
Have we discussed the CDC info behind the booster shot decision? Apparently there are three studies in the CDC's weekly Morbidity and Mortality report that are the focal point.
From WaPo, highlights. I bolded the ones that jumped out at me.
“Examining numerous cohorts through the end of July and early August, three points are now very clear,” CDC director Rochelle Walensky said at a White House covid-19 news briefing Wednesday. “First, vaccine-induced protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection begins to decrease over time. Second, vaccine effectiveness against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains relatively high. And third, vaccine effectiveness is generally decreased against the delta variant."
All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people.
... Until now, evaluations of vaccine effectiveness amid delta largely relied on observations from outside the United States. ... One U.S. report that has not yet gone through peer review, collecting data from Mayo Clinic Health System facilities in five states, found a drop in the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine’s effectiveness against delta infections to 42 percent. The other mRNA vaccine, made by Moderna, was 76 percent effective.
... The new study from New York is the first to assess vaccine protection against coronavirus infection across the entirety of a U.S. state amid delta. The study authors found a modest drop in effectiveness: It descended from 92 percent in May to 80 percent in late July.
The second of the three studies found effectiveness against infection declined for nursing home residents after delta emerged. It dropped from 75 percent in March through May to 53 percent in June and July. Vaccination for visitors and staff is crucial, the study authors wrote, and “additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine might be considered for nursing home and long-term care facility residents.”
... The third report, an analysis of patients at 21 hospitals in 18 states, found sustained protection against hospitalization. Effectiveness was steady at 86 percent, even in the midsummer months when delta outcompeted other variants of concern. For adults who do not have compromised immune systems, that effectiveness stood at 90 percent.
UGH. Such a mixed bag. Still good on effectiveness in preventing hospitalization, but the one finding Pfizer dropped to 42% effectiveness against delta vs. Moderna still being 76% effective kind of made my stomach drop. And 20% of infections/15% of hospitalizations coming from vaccinated people isn't great either.
I wonder if the variability has to do with how much variability there has been across the country with regards to rates of natural infection
My hospital is still nowhere near 15% hospitalizations of fully vaccinated people and we’ve been feeling the delta surge for a while. But we have relatively high rates of vaccine uptake and have had relatively strict covid precautions… so perhaps more of our unvaccinated adult population remains susceptible to the virus and they’re only just now getting exposed and hospitalized.
If we are looking at areas that have exercised little or no precautions through the initial surges, more of their unvaccinated population may have some level of natural immunity…which makes the vaccines appear less effective over time in the vaccinated population.
I don’t expect there to be any single answer, but it will be interesting to see all the post hoc analyses when this is over.
The Pfizer efficacy numbers make me nervous for my parents who are in their 70s and got their shots in February. My mom plans to get the booster but that’s still a month or more away depending on how they do it.
The biggest difference between the two is the micrograms that each manufacturer used (30 for Pfizer vs. 100 for Moderna.) At the time, some doctors on a forum that I lurked on suggested that Pfizer’s vaccine had the advantage of being able to get the same efficacy using a smaller dosage, but maybe there’s something to be said about that higher dose.
I remember learning that on this board actually. And that chart that showed that Moderna had the worst side effects of the three. At the time I thought I was unlucky to get that one.
Anyone know of any longer term immunity research on people who have had Covid and then got vaccinated? Do they experience the same drop? I remember reading that for some of those people they had many many more antibodies than those who never tested positive for Covid but got the vaccine
They’re about to recommend that everyone who got moderna or Pfizer get boosters after 8 months. Anyone else starting to feel hopeless against this all?
Not at all! We need boosters for all kinds of immunizations (Tdap, flu, MMR, etc.) I’m glad that science is saying that we need a booster and not “well this type of vaccine isn’t working at all. Back to the drawing board.”
Y’all, we have interventions that actually work! Vaccinated people are not dying or being hospitalized for severe illness. We just need to get more people to take the shot.
Post by Velar Fricative on Aug 18, 2021 20:49:13 GMT -5
I know the state doesn’t matter but I was happy to see my state highlighted in the CDC reports that came out. I know efficacy has decreased but I’m happy to point out to antivax assholes complaining about not getting to eat inside restaurants here that it’s because they’re 8 times more likely to have covid. And I’m really heartened to see that while it’s less effective against infections, it’s still really great at protecting against hospitalizations and death. That’s all I’m hoping for at this point.
The Pfizer vs. Moderna vs. J&J is interesting. I got Pfizer, as did almost every adult in our large extended families. No breakthroughs yet. My brother and his GF got J&J, and my sister got Moderna. She had the most severe side effects of anyone, but we chalked it up to her having a bad case of covid just three months earlier. I wouldn’t be mad if Moderna is more protective because she lives in MS and I figured she needs all the protection against reinfection that she can get down there.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
I saw kinggutterbaby posted that many of the vaccinated folks hospitalized with COVID (40-44%) are immunocompromised folks. So the folks that really need that third shot ASAP
Post by karinothing on Aug 19, 2021 5:35:39 GMT -5
I have a question about that article. It says:
"All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people."
But yesterday when I was looking at data it looked like the infection rate among vaccinated people was much smaller. Are these numbers world wide? So not just the 3 US vaccines? For example, in VA I think 99% of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated (and I thought I read numbers were similar in other states too). Just wondering where this 15% of hospitalizations number comes from.
"All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people."
But yesterday when I was looking at data it looked like the infection rate among vaccinated people was much smaller. Are these numbers world wide? So not just the 3 US vaccines? For example, in VA I think 99% of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated (and I thought I read numbers were similar in other states too). Just wondering where this 15% of hospitalizations number comes from.
One of our large hospital systems has over 10% vaccinated patients, it’s probably higher state wide. It could be higher in areas where vaccination rates are low bc we have more breakthrough cases due to rampant spreading?
My info is more anecdotal, but my friend’s sister works a covid floor here in Florida and she has said that the folks who have been hospitalized with breakthrough cases are older and more likely to have been vaccinated early in the process. Makes me nervous for my parents who are Pfizer-vaccinated. My mom’s BFF lost her vaccinated brother to COVID. He was in his early 70s, lived in a retirement community so was vaccinated in the first wave and was otherwise healthy
Ah, okay, was 99% before, but i guess 98 vs 99 isn't that huge of a difference.
mofongo, you could be right about it being higher in states with lower vaccination rates, that 15% number just really stood out to me given what I have read but admittedly I haven't been focusing on states with low vaccine rates.
Ah, okay, was 99% before, but i guess 98 vs 99 isn't that huge of a difference.
mofongo , you could be right about it being higher in states with lower vaccination rates, that 15% number just really stood out to me given what I have read but admittedly I haven't been focusing on states with low vaccine rates.
Yes - I was posting to agree with you - sorry if it sounded like I was weirdly disagreeing.
I downloaded the app to allow me to show my vax status. It felt a little weird that it generates a PDF that anyone can create if they really wanted to. I suppose that is not much different from anyone counterfeiting the paper cards.