"All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people."
But yesterday when I was looking at data it looked like the infection rate among vaccinated people was much smaller. Are these numbers world wide? So not just the 3 US vaccines? For example, in VA I think 99% of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated (and I thought I read numbers were similar in other states too). Just wondering where this 15% of hospitalizations number comes from.
The tricky part that I don't think we have answers about yet is whether the increasing breakthrough infections are due to:
1) Actual waning of the vaccine's efficacy regardless of variant and health and characteristics of the vaccinated people infected, 2) The Delta variant just being that much more "effective" at infecting vaccinated people, 3) Older age and/or health conditions of breakthrough infections (since they were among the first to get vaccinated), 4) Inevitability of increased breakthroughs because of the openness of society nowadays versus last year and earlier this year, with more appearing to occur in areas with huge outbreaks, or 5) Some or all of the above.
The only thing that's been relatively stable is that vaccines are still incredibly effective in protecting against hospitalizations and deaths. But this is also why I'm glad boosters will be given to older people and immunocompromised people first, because of the small amount of vaccinated people who do get hospitalized or die, they are more likely to be older and/or immunocompromised.
I downloaded the app to allow me to show my vax status. It felt a little weird that it generates a PDF that anyone can create if they really wanted to. I suppose that is not much different from anyone counterfeiting the paper cards.
Which app? I read an article from WaPo a few weeks ago talking about different apps, and they didn't really have a clear pick. I am curious about this because my vax "card" is actually not a card, but a piece of paper, since they ran out.
breezy8407, Since I am in NJ, I used the Docket app. Both NJ and UT seem to able able to use this one as I had to select which state I wanted to query against. I was able to do it for both MH and I - although they do require you to verify your identity (which is good). Interesting to note that I talked to a cowoker who said the app didn't have his vax info. He had gotten his via CVS while MH and I went to state run megasites.
"All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people."
But yesterday when I was looking at data it looked like the infection rate among vaccinated people was much smaller. Are these numbers world wide? So not just the 3 US vaccines? For example, in VA I think 99% of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated (and I thought I read numbers were similar in other states too). Just wondering where this 15% of hospitalizations number comes from.
I wish that was cited more specifically, so I'm not sure where that number comes from.
But the 15% isn't very far off from what Alabama is reporting right now, where 12% of their hospitalized covid patients were vaccinated.
"All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people."
But yesterday when I was looking at data it looked like the infection rate among vaccinated people was much smaller. Are these numbers world wide? So not just the 3 US vaccines? For example, in VA I think 99% of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated (and I thought I read numbers were similar in other states too). Just wondering where this 15% of hospitalizations number comes from.
I wish that was cited more specifically, so I'm not sure where that number comes from.
But the 15% isn't very far off from what Alabama is reporting right now, where 12% of their hospitalized covid patients were vaccinated.
I was curious about their ages, so looked. Angus King is 77, John Hickenlooper is 69, and Roger Wicker is 70. I'm guessing all were vaxxed pretty early, and there's good data to indicate that older people mount a lower immune response from the vaccine. All three are likely interacting with lots of people, so it's really not surprising. I wish the media would quit making a big deal about it.
I was curious about their ages, so looked. Angus King is 77, John Hickenlooper is 69, and Roger Wicker is 70. I'm guessing all were vaxxed pretty early, and there's good data to indicate that older people mount a lower immune response from the vaccine. All three are likely interacting with lots of people, so it's really not surprising. I wish the media would quit making a big deal about it.
Hopefully they all experience mild symptoms and recover. To tag onto what the PP said, weren't the Senators vaxxed in, like, December?
Not this specific article but the WHO objection to boosters.
11 billion doses are needed worldwide (per the article) to (1) protect our fellow humans and (2) help keep all of us safer from variants. I realize that production is one thing and worldwide distribution quite another, but I think we are not doing a great job on a national level thinking of this in a big picture/long-term sense.
Regarding Pfizer vs Moderna, I’ve seen several different possible reasons for this.
1) Pfizer got rolled out first and the most vulnerable got this vaccine. 2) Moderna’s larger dose as already stated. 3) There was 4 weeks between doses for Moderna vs 3 for Pfizer. Some of the data out of the UK which went for a “first dose first” approach suggests giving the immune system more time to rev up before hitting again is beneficial.
Arguably though, the announcement isn't a push for boosters. It's a push to wait until 8 months, which for those of us who got our vaccinations as "general population" is still many months away. There was literally nothing stopping me from getting boosted last week or even last month. Now there is a recommendation to wait until (for me) January... by which point, at least according to some articles I've read, there is no longer projected to be a supply-side global shortage. (Distribution is another matter, obviously.)
Have we discussed the CDC info behind the booster shot decision? Apparently there are three studies in the CDC's weekly Morbidity and Mortality report that are the focal point.
From WaPo, highlights. I bolded the ones that jumped out at me.
“Examining numerous cohorts through the end of July and early August, three points are now very clear,” CDC director Rochelle Walensky said at a White House covid-19 news briefing Wednesday. “First, vaccine-induced protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection begins to decrease over time. Second, vaccine effectiveness against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains relatively high. And third, vaccine effectiveness is generally decreased against the delta variant."
All three reports measure vaccine effectiveness, which compares the rates of infection or hospitalization among vaccinated people with the rates among people who had not been vaccinated. Twenty percent of new infections and 15 percent of hospitalizations from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, were among vaccinated people.
... Until now, evaluations of vaccine effectiveness amid delta largely relied on observations from outside the United States. ... One U.S. report that has not yet gone through peer review, collecting data from Mayo Clinic Health System facilities in five states, found a drop in the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine’s effectiveness against delta infections to 42 percent. The other mRNA vaccine, made by Moderna, was 76 percent effective.
... The new study from New York is the first to assess vaccine protection against coronavirus infection across the entirety of a U.S. state amid delta. The study authors found a modest drop in effectiveness: It descended from 92 percent in May to 80 percent in late July.
The second of the three studies found effectiveness against infection declined for nursing home residents after delta emerged. It dropped from 75 percent in March through May to 53 percent in June and July. Vaccination for visitors and staff is crucial, the study authors wrote, and “additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine might be considered for nursing home and long-term care facility residents.”
... The third report, an analysis of patients at 21 hospitals in 18 states, found sustained protection against hospitalization. Effectiveness was steady at 86 percent, even in the midsummer months when delta outcompeted other variants of concern. For adults who do not have compromised immune systems, that effectiveness stood at 90 percent.
UGH. Such a mixed bag. Still good on effectiveness in preventing hospitalization, but the one finding Pfizer dropped to 42% effectiveness against delta vs. Moderna still being 76% effective kind of made my stomach drop. And 20% of infections/15% of hospitalizations coming from vaccinated people isn't great either.
I wonder if the variability has to do with how much variability there has been across the country with regards to rates of natural infection
My hospital is still nowhere near 15% hospitalizations of fully vaccinated people and we’ve been feeling the delta surge for a while. But we have relatively high rates of vaccine uptake and have had relatively strict covid precautions… so perhaps more of our unvaccinated adult population remains susceptible to the virus and they’re only just now getting exposed and hospitalized.
If we are looking at areas that have exercised little or no precautions through the initial surges, more of their unvaccinated population may have some level of natural immunity…which makes the vaccines appear less effective over time in the vaccinated population.
I don’t expect there to be any single answer, but it will be interesting to see all the post hoc analyses when this is over.
Your hospital might be an outlier. The NYTimes just reported some state-level data for California (and six other states, including Colorado and Massachusetts — I know we have a lot of posters from those states too on this board):
Vaccinated people accounted for 12-24% of hospitalizations in the states mentioned. However, the vast majority (3/4ths) were older than 65 (and I assume most of the others were immunocompromised in some way, but the data is not that specific.)
ETA: The article does point out that elderly people are most likely to be vaccinated AND most likely to be hospitalized for covid. So that makes it seem like breakthrough rates are higher than they are. Unfortunately, this becomes ammunition for the 45-year-old anti-vaxxer screaming about freedom when the reality is that their breakthrough rate is likely to be much lower. (And hopefully that’s some consolation for those of us on this board — though perhaps not for our parents and grandparents. Bring on the boosters!)
Regarding Pfizer vs Moderna, I’ve seen several different possible reasons for this.
1) Pfizer got rolled out first and the most vulnerable got this vaccine. 2) Moderna’s larger dose as already stated. 3) There was 4 weeks between doses for Moderna vs 3 for Pfizer. Some of the data out of the UK which went for a “first dose first” approach suggests giving the immune system more time to rev up before hitting again is beneficial.
Hmm. I wonder about those who got Pfizer on the 4-week schedule? Walgreens, for example, set everyone up on a 4 week scheduled for most of the spring. They fixed it by about May and Pfizer was given at 3 weeks. (I was in the 4 week group, H got his second at 3 weeks. Both walgreens).
Regarding Pfizer vs Moderna, I’ve seen several different possible reasons for this.
1) Pfizer got rolled out first and the most vulnerable got this vaccine. 2) Moderna’s larger dose as already stated. 3) There was 4 weeks between doses for Moderna vs 3 for Pfizer. Some of the data out of the UK which went for a “first dose first” approach suggests giving the immune system more time to rev up before hitting again is beneficial.
Hmm. I wonder about those who got Pfizer on the 4-week schedule? Walgreens, for example, set everyone up on a 4 week scheduled for most of the spring. They fixed it by about May and Pfizer was given at 3 weeks. (I was in the 4 week group, H got his second at 3 weeks. Both walgreens).
This would be interesting to note. DH and I had to delay our second doses since we had a household covid+ case, so our doses were about 4 weeks apart. Never considered it to be something that could be important now, I was more concerned about it having any efficacy at all after the delay!
But, it covers outside spaces as well. We have had conversations in the past talking about how some of us living in places that take outside masking way too far (imo.) And then it starts to get shamey if you are a person who doesn't want to like go on a hike with a mask.
Anyways I am so fucking pissed we are back to this because other people couldn't get it right. It sounds so silly but lifting those restrictions brought me a ton of joy. To be able to be outside without the "should I wear a mask or not" was liberating. It feels like we are back at square one where I can't smile at people on the hiking trails and we all start acting scared of each other again. ugh
This is just a vent. I am frustrated to be put into this position again. We had our cases down to almost non- existent this summer. I guess that tells me we can get back to that again, but it feels pretty hopeless right now.
People criticizing the Republican leadership of Texas for the state’s rising COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths should instead blame unvaccinated African Americans, said Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick in a Thursday night interview with Fox News anchor Laura Ingraham.
Hmm. I wonder about those who got Pfizer on the 4-week schedule? Walgreens, for example, set everyone up on a 4 week scheduled for most of the spring. They fixed it by about May and Pfizer was given at 3 weeks. (I was in the 4 week group, H got his second at 3 weeks. Both walgreens).
This would be interesting to note. DH and I had to delay our second doses since we had a household covid+ case, so our doses were about 4 weeks apart. Never considered it to be something that could be important now, I was more concerned about it having any efficacy at all after the delay!
The news I saw suggested that 8 weeks was the sweet spot. This tactic left vulnerable populations only partially vaxxed for longer but the antibody and T-cell response was better with the longer gap.
Post by omgzombies on Aug 20, 2021 15:52:03 GMT -5
Orlando is now urging its residents to reduce water consumption immediately. Hospitals are using a lot of liquid oxygen to treat patients, and liquid oxygen is also used to treat water. They believe that if water consumption doesn't change that water treatment could hit a critical point within a week.
Orlando is now urging its residents to reduce water consumption immediately. Hospitals are using a lot of liquid oxygen to treat patients, and liquid oxygen is also used to treat water. They believe that if water consumption doesn't change that water treatment could hit a critical point within a week.
That’s insane. How are people not taking this seriously? I have a friend who is a nurse at an older hospital who said that when hospitalizations from covid peak there, their vaporizers for delivery oxygen start to freeze because of the high flow of gas.
Well, shoot. The US extends it's border restrictions on Canadians travelling down to the US. It might make the Canadians rethink having opened the border to (vaccinated, tested negative) Americans.
Glad I'm getting this visit in with my family while I can (cross-border work trip to a work site near family, so I added some vacation days onto it...). Who knows when I'll next see them. It's been over two years since the last visit.
Orlando is now urging its residents to reduce water consumption immediately. Hospitals are using a lot of liquid oxygen to treat patients, and liquid oxygen is also used to treat water. They believe that if water consumption doesn't change that water treatment could hit a critical point within a week.
Does Disney have the same water source as Orlando?
I don't understand how public officials expect the public in Orlando to make sacrifices in terms of conserving water, when tourists are still coming to that part of Florida, living their best lives, and contributing to the problem of a potential water shortage. It just doesn't seem to me that the pain is being spread equally here.
In Florida, the pain is never spread equally. Tourism at all costs!
Reedy Creek Improvement District supposedly does water for Disney. I don’t know how true that is (I’m in Florida but not near the Mouse).
Well, I’m plopped on the couch today nursing a summer cold. Or vaccinated covid. I scheduled a test for 3pm today. It was the only appointment I could find outside of urgent care. The drive in site doesn’t run on weekends anymore.
Most likely it’s summer cold. H had something a week ago that he is still dealing with. He did got out to the testing site and both rapid and PCR were negative. So, signs say normal summer cold.
Post by cherry1111 on Aug 21, 2021 11:36:11 GMT -5
I know there are lots of Texans on here. I am participating in this study if anyone else is interested. Did my first blood draw on Thursday and got my results today. It satisfies my curiosity and also contributes to the studying of Covid and infection rates and antibodies. Win win I think.
I've made it until this weekend without any symptoms. I now have a sore throat, headache, and fever. Problem is I have no sick days left for the year..and they were refreshed in June. This is because I get anemia based migraines and used up the measly 3 days already. I know a few coworkers have been out for weeks so I'm pretty sure I've been exposed although the we have not been told.
They removed t he e COVID sick time already. I have been very suspicious to his week since they have gone around demanding vaccine status and passing out hand sanitizer.
I really do need to find a better job that has some respect for their employees.