The Daily podcast today is about questions regarding COVID and kids. The best thing I took out of it is the expert on the show said you need to decide what your #1 priority with your kids is right now and make decisions around that. So if your #1 priority is that they absolutely not get COVID (because of at risk family members etc), you make decisions around that (virtual learning etc). If your #1 priority is that they not fall further behind in school, you make decisions around that (accept some risk, send to in person but have them mask etc). It's the only perspective that really makes sense because there are risks, issues with any decision made.
Unfortunately not all schools are giving that option. My top priority is avoiding Covid (super high risk spouse), but we don’t have virtual as an option at all. Our state doesn’t have a virtual academy and our district isn’t offering it.
We’re trying to reach our pediatrician to get medical home instruction, but that will be 10 hours a week 1:1 in our home (which I’m also uncomfortable with since the teacher could bring something in). Otherwise we have no options.
Legally homeschooling is an option, but neither of us is a teacher and we both work full time and don’t have the time or energy (or interest, if I wanted to teach I would have become a teacher) to homeschool as well.
NYC is going to require all school staff to be vaccinated with at least one dose by September 27th. School starts on September 13th but I'll take it. Previously, it was either get vaccinated or get tested weekly.
Poor DH's phone is probably blowing up from his colleagues asking if they can really do this...
That’s great. We had little to no pushback with vaccinations or testing; the question was who will pay and will it (testing) be done during work hours. Answer: you and no! However, that change would probably change the response here. As a former teachers’ union officer, I feel for your DH.
My kid has lost out on so much. So if masks make ANY kind of difference and lower her/others risk AT ALL, then I will do it.
The issue is the data shows it makes no difference.
Maybe. Because it is early days.
I am ok with a better safe than sorry approach, but that should be communicated! I am a broken record but all communication about this has just been total shit.
And the flip side is harm reduction.... If we have data that masks do nothing to reduce spread in schools, is it ethical to require them when they may cause harm in development? Does anyone know if we have data on speech or social communication?
My kids's school requires masks and I am happy about that but I ballpark that it is 90% emotional and not data driven at this point.
But this is the first school year where Delta is driving the majority of cases, so I'd venture to say that any mask efficacy studies in schools might be useless at this point. We do have studies showing masks are effective at reducing transmission in general. We know Delta is contagious as hell so masks at least in areas with significant outbreaks and overrun hospitals should require them.
My understanding is that cloth masks only really work if everyone is wearing one. If not you need something more like a medical grade mask but those are expensive and not really practical for use in kids. I do send DD to school with her ON masks but honestly Delta is a whole new game. Who knows if it’s effective. If (when) DD gets Covid at least I will know I did everything I could.
And even then it depends on what kind of "medical grade mask." Those blue surgical masks that were popular for awhile might not be much better than cloth masks.
The results demonstrate that the apparent exhalation filtration efficiency is significantly lower than the ideal filtration efficiency of the mask material. Nevertheless, high-efficiency masks, such as the KN95, still offer substantially higher apparent filtration efficiencies (60% and 46% for R95 and KN95 masks, respectively) than the more commonly used cloth (10%) and surgical masks (12%), and therefore are still the recommended choice in mitigating airborne disease transmission indoors.
But you're right that asking (especially young) kids to wear KN95s reliably/properly for a 7 hour school day is not really practical.
While it’s not the best, I don’t think it’s insane to ask a kid to wear a KN95 all day at school. My 8 year old does and has since returning to the classroom. He has a diagnosed sensory disorder and adjusted to it out of necessity. I also wear one all day long at work, including outside in 100 degree weather. I would support mandating that level masks before deciding that cloth masks are worthless so why bother masking at all.
There are plenty of kids who are immunocompromised or have immunocompromised family members who also need to be physically in school for their mental, emotional, and educational well being, and requiring basic precautions from everyone is the only way.
SusanBAnthony , I wouldn't agree that the data shows it makes NO difference, but more that the data is inconclusive as to how much it actually helps (although cloth masks almost certainly don't help as much as people want to believe). If you really want to "follow The Science"...then do that, and acknowledge that the science/data is not, in fact, clear on this question. Fully agree that a "better safe than sorry" message is not really what's being communicated.
Which is why I've always been way more excited about vaccine mandates than mask mandates. We actually have good data for the former.
Right, that's why I said maybe.
On the cloth masks, I agree, and I have no idea why people are still buying cloth masks.
As a scientist, I find it insane that all of the studies done previously were wrong. HOW could that be? That many independent, peer reviewed studies don't just stop being right.
I have yet to read all the studies linked here, but it must be said... absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And even a 10% improvement is an improvement. Is it as good as we thought? Probably not. But that's important to know so people can make better choices. Maybe those choices include different masks? And in all the studies I have read, universal masking made the biggest difference. So mask mandates work because EVERYONE is doing it, not because there is a mask on your face.
Obviously vaccine mandates would be better and maybe we'll see more now with full FDA approval.
aspentosh, I agree with your first statement. I am not sure why there is still a mask debate. I tried to google articles and everything conflicts which seems pretty par for the course with Covid information, but it's been pretty apparent to me that masks work just from experience in our schools and my workplace. We've had no spread in either.
I am still wearing cloth, but I am in an office with one other person and we are both vaccinated, so our risk is lower.
We're still limited in what we do, but I exclusively use cloth with a filter. I am so over this.
Uh no.
And I'm with you. "waves hands above" I have no idea what is going on up there.
I would rather kids just mask if they can't get vaccinated and ensure there's SOME PROTECTION. It seems really weird to have a lot of anti-mask discussion above.
I also think back to the amount of side effects my kid had during her other vaccinations. They were not fun and she was too young to communicate how she was feeling. So I just had a tired, cranky, and feverish kid on my hands until it went away. At least at 8 when she can get the vaccine, she can communicate how she feels after.
We're still limited in what we do, but I exclusively use cloth with a filter. I am so over this.
No. My 4yo barely wore her masks last school year (she was mostly 3, turned 4 in June). I’m just trying to find masks she’ll actually wear. DD1 did have covid but while I’m not relying on that too much, I’m okay with cloth masks for her. I know there’s been some evidence that masks are kind of like vaccines in that they help reduce viral load, so my hope is that if they do catch it, the masks keep their infections mild. DD1 was masked in school when she caught it and was asymptomatic. I mean, I’ll never know if the masking helped keep symptoms away but I don’t know that it didn’t, so.
We're still limited in what we do, but I exclusively use cloth with a filter. I am so over this.
I have switched exclusively to KN95 for my household. However, we do have a high risk person. I wear a KN95 even all day at work where there are only 5 of us and we’re all vaccinated, so the risk is low.
Until recently I was wearing cloth masks at work, KN95 for stores and such, but with the latest data about breakthrough cases I switched.
The Daily podcast today is about questions regarding COVID and kids. The best thing I took out of it is the expert on the show said you need to decide what your #1 priority with your kids is right now and make decisions around that. So if your #1 priority is that they absolutely not get COVID (because of at risk family members etc), you make decisions around that (virtual learning etc). If your #1 priority is that they not fall further behind in school, you make decisions around that (accept some risk, send to in person but have them mask etc). It's the only perspective that really makes sense because there are risks, issues with any decision made.
Unfortunately not all schools are giving that option. My top priority is avoiding Covid (super high risk spouse), but we don’t have virtual as an option at all. Our state doesn’t have a virtual academy and our district isn’t offering it.
We’re trying to reach our pediatrician to get medical home instruction, but that will be 10 hours a week 1:1 in our home (which I’m also uncomfortable with since the teacher could bring something in). Otherwise we have no options.
Legally homeschooling is an option, but neither of us is a teacher and we both work full time and don’t have the time or energy (or interest, if I wanted to teach I would have become a teacher) to homeschool as well.
I'm sorry that is your situation. I was just using that specific scenario as an example. She was just trying to help people navigate difficult decisions and I think determining priority to guide them was helpful advice.
Parents in my district have been posting all over Facebook about their plans for the school year - never test for COVID even if symptomatic, refuse to quarantine and send kids to school if the school says they need to quarantine, send kids to school even if they know they are sick. One of the people posting this is even a teacher in another district. And yet the superintendent is still saying he has no interest in requiring masks unless mandated by the state or county (the county never will, so all my hopes fall on the state at this point, which isn’t lookin good right now).
School starts next week. I don’t know how we are going to make it to DD’s age group being approved for shots without her getting sick first.
I was so mad reading those posts!! They literally translated to, "If my child has symptoms, how do I still send her to school?" AYFKM??
We're still limited in what we do, but I exclusively use cloth with a filter. I am so over this.
No. I can’t find them in stores and when I’ve tried to order online my order got canceled or didn’t go through and then they were out of stock - or they were cost prohibitive.
I would rather my unvaccinated kid wear his cloth mask 100% of the time as he is comfortable in it. Since teachers can't mandate wearing masks, I need him to have total buy in.
And for everyone else in the family, we are vaccinated. So we feel a cloth mask is a fine extra level of protection. I didn't wear a medical grade mask when I was unvaccinated so it seems unnecessary now that I am vaccinated.
H and I have been only wearing only KN95s for at least 6 months. DS(5) has sensory challenges that make it hard find masks he'll actually wear for multiple hours. I'm hoping I've finally found one (they come in the mail today), but this is the 4th one I've tried. The only ones he'll wear for multiple hours and not complain/ask to take it off are two layer cloth ones that are all cloth around the ears too. The elastic around the ears parts are super uncomfortable for him. Also, he has a really small face and head (genetically) so finding masks that fit well and he'll wear is a huge challenge!
We're still limited in what we do, but I exclusively use cloth with a filter. I am so over this.
I have switched exclusively to KN95 for my household. However, we do have a high risk person. I wear a KN95 even all day at work where there are only 5 of us and we’re all vaccinated, so the risk is low.
Until recently I was wearing cloth masks at work, KN95 for stores and such, but with the latest data about breakthrough cases I switched.
Ditto. We bought a large pack recently because we were flying cross country. I was worried they'd be uncomfortable but we wore them for 15 hours straight and I found them way more comfortable and easy to breath in than the cloth/filtered masks we had been using. So now that is what we'll be wearing exclusively.
ETA: Our kids found them comfortable too, but they're 12 and 15.
For the KN95 masks, how much are you spending per mask? I'll be honest - I've been relying on cloth masks in large part because it's affordable when my kid needs a couple a day at school. I could be convinced to switch to regular disposable masks if those are better, but it seems like the KN95 are a lot more expensive.
Are the disposable medical masks really not much better than cloth ones? I'm not talking about N95s, but the cheap blue ones that you've always seen in medical offices. I've switched to those recently since they are now readily available and I assumed since they were filtered, they were offering better protection. If that's not the case, though, then I feel bad about the waste involved in throwing them away daily.
I am pro mask but I do wonder about efficacy in all day situations like schools (or workplaces). COVID is largely airborne. If I'm sitting in my cubicle, I am not breathing directly on anyone anyway - even if I coughed all over my desk, nobody is close enough for me to cough on them. But I'm breathing the same air as my coworkers so couldn't someone across the room get infected by my germs through sharing the same general air supply? And if that's the case and Delta is super contagious AND my coworker and I are both eating and drinking throughout the day and taking our masks off to do so... does it actually make any difference if I wear my mask all of the other 7.5 hours of the day or will they be exposed anyway?
I guess I assume most kids in school will take drinks or eat a snack at some point. Does that mask removal negate the time wearing the mask?
I don't know the answers to these questions but it is making me wonder.
I'm so confused but didn't I see that he required vaccination only? I swear I read that because I remember feeling like he went much further than NYC did at the time.
We're still limited in what we do, but I exclusively use cloth with a filter. I am so over this.
No. Also when covid started I remember there being so much talk about how it is "so hard" to get a proper fit with N95 so most people don't and it's not even doing it's job then. Are these studies being done on everyday people and how they wear them? At my doctors office practically everyone is in surgical masks. I feel like I follow a lot of covid things/people and this board is the only place I ever see the cloth mask thing come up. Idk of all the covid things to get up in arms about I don't see which particular type of mask you're using to be one of them. Esp for kids the biggest thing for me related to my kid is that the mask helps keep her hands/toys out of her mouth.
I'm so confused but didn't I see that he required vaccination only? I swear I read that because I remember feeling like he went much further than NYC did at the time.
I think that was the initial rumor as of the end of last week - but then I dont think it was ever announced. Now it has.
And he's also announced a mandate for state employees, too.
Also, I have a hard time with the amount of trash I'm seeing from disposable masks. It seems like there's a huge shift to reduce waste, but then have a disposable mask.
I feel *slightly* better only disposing of a filter than a whole mask.
Masks are going to be the new plastic straws in a couple years with pollution.
Post by Velar Fricative on Aug 23, 2021 13:57:54 GMT -5
It would require a trigger warning but I'll let you figure out on your own what word an educator used to describe feeling forced to get the shot in a local FB group.
She also said that 10 months of research is nothing compared to her 42 years of living. So, I hope she doesn't change her mind about getting vaccinated because she shouldn't be a teacher.
And I spoke to DH about what he thinks will happen among his unvaccinated colleagues. He expects some to quit but only if they can retire; some people just hold on for a while longer and this would likely spur them to just put in the paperwork. He also expects more teacher aides to quit because they're more likely to be unvaccinated but also don't make a lot of money and aren't often the breadwinners in their households. Maybe some really young teachers will quit too because they aren't as financially invested in the pension. The rest will talk a good game for a while and then ultimately get the shot.
I do wonder about the mandate and very recent infection. Our (former) babysitter just had covid this month and she teaches with DH. I wouldn't be mad if maybe those teachers would be given 90 days to get the vaccine, because isn't that what is recommended? Maybe?
Post by sillygoosegirl on Aug 23, 2021 14:02:58 GMT -5
I'm wearing a cloth mask with a built-in filter, a really good fit, and that the New York Times said they got good results with at an independent testing lab. I'm normally layering it under my home made cloth mask when I go inside. I haven't read a lot about masks since the spring, but at that time I felt like a really good reputable cloth mask was probably a better bet than a KN95 of unknown origin (what I was reading in the spring is that independent lab tests of online KN95s were finding many were only 35% effective).
My kid is still wearing her Etsy cloth masks for outdoor play dates. She has a few masks like mine for when I need to take her inside places, and for homeschool coop starting in a few weeks. I'd like to switch her entirely over to the better masks, but they are still selling out within minutes of new stock being posted, so I don't want to be greedy and buy more than we really need when there isn't enough supply available. I also have some disposable KF94 masks (which may or may not be fakes) for her in each car, backpack, etc, and a big stack of them by the front door for the times when we can't find a mask. I have honestly not yet seen kid-sized disposable masks that I felt like I could be confident in, and weren't already sold out. I don't ask her to double mask as I am concerned she would not end up with a good fit from either mask.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Aug 23, 2021 14:17:57 GMT -5
We are all wearing cloth masks, and I’m ok with that. I think it’s ok to make this decision as a household, and everyone wearing K95s, let alone properly and/or comfortably, isn’t gonna happen.