Trip-Stacking

[bee20]

I've had the reverse, I have a trip later this year that I had booked last February. Rates were really low then with free cancellation so I got a good deal and crossed my fingers it would be safe to travel.

In April, my hotel cancelled on me, saying the rooms were all booked and they'd made a mistake. I looked online and they were now selling rooms for about 50% more. So I booked a different hotel.

Two months later the second hotel sent me a message saying I needed to send them a digital bank transfer for the cost of the stay, and then would also need to pay a $200 "fee" when I arrived because they have had so many cancellations due to covid.

So now I'm on my third booking for the same week. Rooms now are about 5-6x what I reserved in February and about 2x what I booked earlier this summer so I'm nervous my booking will be cancelled out from under me again.

[babsbunny]

I was surprised at the highlight that travel agent companies were teaching their employees how to make more money off this while admitting that it is not good for the businesses (hotels, airlines) in their industry.

I can see how some people may choose to do this, for example if they only can schedule a specific week off, and then they might change plans last minute to avoid burdening health care workers in hot spots. But I can also see people that treat covid as the cold/flu taking excessive advantage of flexible booking rules.

I was shocked at the suggestion that ghost bookings exist... people booking and then canceling that never had any intention of traveling. WTH. (Maybe this is just a myth.) The article also suggested that a similar practice is booking restaurant reservations at multiple places so you can decide last minute what food you are in the mood for. IS THIS ACTUALLY A THING?!?!

[rubytue]

Sept 4, 2021 10:16:40 GMT -5 babsbunny said:

I was shocked at the suggestion that ghost bookings exist... people booking and then canceling that never had any intention of traveling. WTH. (Maybe this is just a myth.) The article also suggested that a similar practice is booking restaurant reservations at multiple places so you can decide last minute what food you are in the mood for. IS THIS ACTUALLY A THING?!?!

Back when most hotels were “cancel by 6pm day of arrival” I would do this. Usually for road trips where it wasn’t clear where we would end up at the end of the day. But it was definitely a thing. Sometimes of work trips, too. Did I want to stay close to the airport or the job site. Often wouldnt know what time I had to be at the job site until I got there. And when I was with the army, we could be working on a field exercise 2 hours from the nearest town with a hotel (I was civilian, working with active duty)

[bee20]

Sept 4, 2021 10:23:18 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Sept 4, 2021 10:16:40 GMT -5 babsbunny said:

I was shocked at the suggestion that ghost bookings exist... people booking and then canceling that never had any intention of traveling. WTH. (Maybe this is just a myth.) The article also suggested that a similar practice is booking restaurant reservations at multiple places so you can decide last minute what food you are in the mood for. IS THIS ACTUALLY A THING?!?!

Back when most hotels were “cancel by 6pm day of arrival” I would do this. Usually for road trips where it wasn’t clear where we would end up at the end of the day. But it was definitely a thing. Sometimes of work trips, too. Did I want to stay close to the airport or the job site. Often wouldnt know what time I had to be at the job site until I got there. And when I was with the army, we could be working on a field exercise 2 hours from the nearest town with a hotel (I was civilian, working with active duty)

Yes, hotels offering free cancellation usually offer a lower rate with no cancellation option.  So using the cancellation policy for a range of reasons is definitely a thing.  However booking way more options than you could possibly use (like 5 restaurants for one night) seems like a hassle for everyone involved. 

[babsbunny]

Thank you rubytue and bee20. I should clarify (because I agree that your examples are very valid and make sense).

1. One part of the article made me think ghost reservations were people bored at home during the pandemic making random reservations and canceling just to occupy their time. (Hence my thought that this is a myth.)

2. Admittedly, I do not eat at restaurants much, so I was surprised to think that it was common-ish practice to make a bunch of reservations for the same night, inconveniencing others so a person could decide last minute "what they were in the mood for."

[gummy]

Sept 4, 2021 10:16:40 GMT -5 babsbunny said:

I was shocked at the suggestion that ghost bookings exist... people booking and then canceling that never had any intention of traveling. WTH. (Maybe this is just a myth.) The article also suggested that a similar practice is booking restaurant reservations at multiple places so you can decide last minute what food you are in the mood for. IS THIS ACTUALLY A THING?!?!

This is such a problem where I live, particularly in the "post-Covid" recovery time period, that now most restaurants you have to put a cc on file when booking and agree that if you cancel within X hours (around 4ish) you'll be charged upwards of $50pp

[gardengal]

Actually I was considering this (booking a realistic trip plus stretch goal, Covid-wise) for spring break. I would book nowish & cancel in January. But, truthfully, I’m too lazy to book & plan 2 very different vacations so I’m just going to go with the safer bet (driving vacation, localish).

[akayf]

I have done something like this for possible Disney trips. Back when dining reservations were made at 180 days out, a couple times I would book dining before booking our actual trip. For example, in winter 2017, we didn’t know if we were doing Disney that summer so I made a dining reservation for each day of the week we were considering once the 180 window opened . In April, we finally decided yes, we were going snd I was very happy to have the hard to get reservations like Be Our Guest booked. Another year, a month after I made the dining reservations for a possible trip, we decided not to go so I cancelled all the ADRs right away.

[goldengirlz]

I’ve done this once, not related to covid. When my H got sick last spring, we had a road trip planned over July 4th. I didn’t want to cancel that itinerary until we had a surgery date, but I also wanted a backup closer home in case he wasn’t feeling up to a big drive.

The ethics of traveling to places like Hawaii aside (which I totally agree is a thorny issue), I guess I don’t understand why this is problematic for essential workers? It seems like more of a problem for hotel owners and AirBNBs (airlines keep your money anyway.)

I’m totally supportive of restaurants requiring a credit card to hold a reservation; most of them are small businesses. But as long as everyone is playing by the contract rules, I guess I’m not sure I understand the outrage in the OP. As far as covid goes, this is a fluid situation and the rules keep changing; unless you’re arguing everyone should be staying home now (and maybe they should — I won’t argue that), it seems prudent to account for the fact that you might need to cancel.

[mcsangel2]

I never heard of this before. If this becomes common practice, it's going to lead to hotels not allowing cancellations and only offering credits (like airlines do now), and restaurants doing something similar.

[af1212]

I’m surprised at the outrage here as well.

I have never booked two trips for the same time period (a girl can dream!) but I have definitely booked two restaurant reservations. Pick a day, book two reservations then ask everyone involved which they would prefer, then cancel one. Also we only do outside dining so we are even more limited.

I agree that booking 5 places and waiting until day-of seems rude but it also seems like a big hassle and not something I can imagine many people do so I can’t see it being a giant problem for restaurants - maybe I’m being naive though. Many restaurants require a cc deposit anyway so I guess they are still getting some money out of it or these people are canceling before the required deadline.

[kadams767]

Sept 5, 2021 6:42:47 GMT -5 af1212 said:

I’m surprised at the outrage here as well.

I have never booked two trips for the same time period (a girl can dream!) but I have definitely booked two restaurant reservations. Pick a day, book two reservations then ask everyone involved which they would prefer, then cancel one. Mostly I do this because whoever we are eating with needs a babysitter as do we, so we need to be choosy with our time. Also we only do outside dining so we are even more limited.

I agree that booking 5 places and waiting until day-of seems rude but it also seems like a big hassle and not something I can imagine many people do so I can’t see it being a giant problem for restaurants - maybe I’m being naive though. Many restaurants require a cc deposit anyway so I guess they are still getting some money out of it or these people are canceling before the required deadline.

I do think you are being a bit naive as to the restaurant issue, as it is more than just the restaurant getting to collect on a deposit.  I live in a smaller city where pre-Covid, reservations were not required (or even taken) for many places and if they were, they certainly were not booked out months and months in advance.  Now, it is nearly impossible to get a reservation within the same week anywhere that takes them, and whenever I’ve tried to walk-in, the wait time is hours (if they are event still taking walk-ins).  Someone booking multiple reservations isn’t only potentially hurting a restaurant, it hurts the whole circle - people who couldn’t get a reservation, people who can’t get a table, the reputations of industry and workers.  People think they can’t go somewhere because of the labor shortage and “lazy people who don’t want to work” - well, sure there are less workers, but also, you can’t get a table because it’s reserved for Karen who booked it, along with 4 other places, and she forgot to cancel her reservation when she decided she’d rather have sushi over Italian.  Not to mention, the deposit collected on the ditched reso likely doesn’t cover what an actual tab would be for the patron had they actually showed up and had dinner, drinks, apps, dessert, etc.  

[jlt19]

bee20 , that is crazy! Are these local hotels, or big chains doing this? I would be LIVID!

@

We're having a bit of a morality debate in our house right now. We were supposed to go to Disney in fall 2020 and obviously cancelled. So, in August 2020, I booked a trip to Hawaii for June '21 and was able to get all 4 of us first class, lay down seats for the same # of points it would usually be for 2 of us, plus a cheap convertible rental and a room on points at a Hilton resort. We had to postpone it b/c DH's coworker was due with twins around then and we actually got separated over the winter. I did rebook for October '21 over the kids' fall break. Our plan was to not even tell them until we got to Dallas on our connecting flight, and we had also hoped they could be vaccinated by then.

Well, we moved into a new school district, so no fall break and the kids have started planning Halloween b/c our new neighborhood is famous for it. We decided to tell them last night about DH's "work trip" to Dallas so they stopped planning matching costumes with friends. DD broke down, and DH told her we were going to Hawaii. Thanks a lot dude.

I've been hesitant to cancel b/c I know this trip probably won't ever happen if I do and really, who's to say what the situation will look like in late October. Kids could potentially be vaccinated by then (fingers crossed). We won't plan a backup, since we'll be pulling kids from their new schools, but I can see how we would have had we still been in the same school district with the full fall break.

[af1212]

@@@

Sept 5, 2021 8:28:20 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

bee20, that is crazy! Are these local hotels, or big chains doing this? I would be LIVID!

We're having a bit of a morality debate in our house right now. We were supposed to go to Disney in fall 2020 and obviously cancelled. So, in August 2020, I booked a trip to Hawaii for June '21 and was able to get all 4 of us first class, lay down seats for the same # of points it would usually be for 2 of us, plus a cheap convertible rental and a room on points at a Hilton resort. We had to postpone it b/c DH's coworker was due with twins around then and we actually got separated over the winter. I did rebook for October '21 over the kids' fall break. Our plan was to not even tell them until we got to Dallas on our connecting flight, and we had also hoped they could be vaccinated by then.

Well, we moved into a new school district, so no fall break and the kids have started planning Halloween b/c our new neighborhood is famous for it. We decided to tell them last night about DH's "work trip" to Dallas so they stopped planning matching costumes with friends. DD broke down, and DH told her we were going to Hawaii. Thanks a lot dude.

I've been hesitant to cancel b/c I know this trip probably won't ever happen if I do and really, who's to say what the situation will look like in late October. Kids could potentially be vaccinated by then (fingers crossed). We won't plan a backup, since we'll be pulling kids from their new schools, but I can see how we would have had we still been in the same school district with the full fall break.

@@@




Are your kids under 12? I don’t see any way possible they will be vaccinated by late October. Takes 5 weeks from first shot to full vaccination so that wouod mean they need to get their first shot in 2 weeks?

[seeyalater52]

@@

Can all the posts discussing kids above get an @ tag please? This thread is not exempt.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 5, 2021 8:01:28 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Sept 5, 2021 6:42:47 GMT -5 af1212 said:

I’m surprised at the outrage here as well.

I have never booked two trips for the same time period (a girl can dream!) but I have definitely booked two restaurant reservations. Pick a day, book two reservations then ask everyone involved which they would prefer, then cancel one. Mostly I do this because whoever we are eating with needs a babysitter as do we, so we need to be choosy with our time. Also we only do outside dining so we are even more limited.

I agree that booking 5 places and waiting until day-of seems rude but it also seems like a big hassle and not something I can imagine many people do so I can’t see it being a giant problem for restaurants - maybe I’m being naive though. Many restaurants require a cc deposit anyway so I guess they are still getting some money out of it or these people are canceling before the required deadline.

I do think you are being a bit naive as to the restaurant issue, as it is more than just the restaurant getting to collect on a deposit.  I live in a smaller city where pre-Covid, reservations were not required (or even taken) for many places and if they were, they certainly were not booked out months and months in advance.  Now, it is nearly impossible to get a reservation within the same week anywhere that takes them, and whenever I’ve tried to walk-in, the wait time is hours (if they are event still taking walk-ins).  Someone booking multiple reservations isn’t only potentially hurting a restaurant, it hurts the whole circle - people who couldn’t get a reservation, people who can’t get a table, the reputations of industry and workers.  People think they can’t go somewhere because of the labor shortage and “lazy people who don’t want to work” - well, sure there are less workers, but also, you can’t get a table because it’s reserved for Karen who booked it, along with 4 other places, and she forgot to cancel her reservation when she decided she’d rather have sushi over Italian.  Not to mention, the deposit collected on the ditched reso likely doesn’t cover what an actual tab would be for the patron had they actually showed up and had dinner, drinks, apps, dessert, etc.  

And I’ve never heard of deposits and cancellation fees getting passed down the chain to tipped workers (min wage housekeeping etc included along with restaurant workers who make tipped min wage.) That represents a large part of the compensation for many low wage workers who are absolutely without a doubt impacted by this sort of behavior.

[sent]

I'd think that if a restaurant charging a deposit gets a cancellation, they are probably busy enough to fill it with a last minute booking also.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 5, 2021 9:37:12 GMT -5 sent said:

I'd think that if a restaurant charging a deposit gets a cancellation, they are probably busy enough to fill it with a last minute booking also.

This assumption doesn’t make sense to me. It is just as likely to be the opposite.

[waverly]

I kind of feel like it feeds into that whole optimizing everything who cares who gets hurt as long as I have the best possible experience. Along with the whole ghosting/ flaking thing that is on the rise.

I don’t understand multiple restaurant reservations but we’ve done a ton of takeout and only visiting with friends outside. Why not agree beforehand then book the reservation? But everyone wants to decide which restaurant at the last minute? Covid might have caused more need for reservations, but I haven’t seen it in my area, more like times tickets to events/ museums to account for capacity limits. That had its pros and cons but ultimately most places got rid of timed tickets when capacity limits were lifted.

As far as vacations my back up plan is to not go anywhere I guess. Plan A is refundable and plan B is chill at home.

[aurora]

I had a hard time finding a place to stay for a work trip this fall. The owner of the place said he's concerned by the number of people doing multiple bookings and then picking which one they want at the last minute. So, trip stacking negatively impacts far more than just wealthy hotel chain owners, and I think it's a pretty selfish thing to do.

Owners also aren't always ethical, either. My family has someone who uses a wheelchair so we have to book very early at popular destinations. We booked a 2021 Christmas destination back in February, then a couple of months later the VRBO owner canceled our reservation and now we can't find anywhere else accessible to stay so have had to cancel the whole trip.

[goldengirlz]

Sept 5, 2021 10:47:42 GMT -5 aurora said:

I had a hard time finding a place to stay for a work trip this fall. The owner of the place said he's concerned by the number of people doing multiple bookings and then picking which one they want at the last minute. So, trip stacking negatively impacts far more than just wealthy hotel chain owners, and I think it's a pretty selfish thing to do.

Owners also aren't always ethical, either. My family has someone who uses a wheelchair so we have to book very early at popular destinations. We booked a 2021 Christmas destination back in February, then a couple of months later the VRBO owner canceled our reservation and now we can't find anywhere else accessible to stay so have had to cancel the whole trip.

I think this is the rub. So many people got screwed last spring and lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars. More recently, there were stories coming out of Tahoe last week of AirBNB/VRBO owners refusing to give refunds even with the fire danger and terrible air quality. They didn’t want to lose all that Labor Day weekend revenue.

I’m sympathetic to both sides but it’s basically become a free for all. And with covid still very much a thing — not to mention the potential for new variants — anyone thinking of planning a trip this year, or even early next, has to assume it could be cancelled. That risk is being shared among travelers and the hotel industry.

The OP specifically called out “essential workers,” but none of this is essential. Yeah, it sucks that travel is in disarray right now, but it’s also a big part of how the virus is spreading. Forget about higher prices — it’s basically become this paradox where the more people travel, the more the virus is spreading, and the more the virus spreads, the more likely you’ll need to cancel (and the more likely people will try to protect themselves). Which is precisely what’s happening in Hawaii. The whole thing is problematic, with trip stacking just a symptom of a much bigger issue. Before we throw out words like “selfish,” let’s remember that the true essential workers here just want everyone to stay home; they couldn’t care less that this could make it harder for bargain seekers to come to Hawaii on the cheap.

[orval]

I almost always book multiple hotel reservations for the same dates and then decide which one I want as I get closer to the trip. I have done this for years. Sometimes rates change even at the same hotel as well so I don't cancel the ones I have until I have a confirmation on the cheaper rate. I do usually cancel a few weeks out once I have activities planned and know where we want our home base to be. Pre covid things were tightening up and you had to cancel 48-96 hour prior to arrival.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 5, 2021 12:04:43 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Sept 5, 2021 10:47:42 GMT -5 aurora said:

I had a hard time finding a place to stay for a work trip this fall. The owner of the place said he's concerned by the number of people doing multiple bookings and then picking which one they want at the last minute. So, trip stacking negatively impacts far more than just wealthy hotel chain owners, and I think it's a pretty selfish thing to do.

Owners also aren't always ethical, either. My family has someone who uses a wheelchair so we have to book very early at popular destinations. We booked a 2021 Christmas destination back in February, then a couple of months later the VRBO owner canceled our reservation and now we can't find anywhere else accessible to stay so have had to cancel the whole trip.

I think this is the rub. So many people got screwed last spring and lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars. More recently, there were stories coming out of Tahoe last week of AirBNB/VRBO owners refusing to give refunds even with the fire danger and terrible air quality. They didn’t want to lose all that Labor Day weekend revenue.

I’m sympathetic to both sides but it’s basically become a free for all. And with covid still very much a thing — not to mention the potential for new variants — anyone thinking of planning a trip this year, or even early next, has to assume it could be cancelled. That risk is being shared among travelers and the hotel industry.

The OP specifically called out “essential workers,” but none of this is essential. Yeah, it sucks that travel is in disarray right now, but it’s also a big part of how the virus is spreading. Forget about higher prices — it’s basically become this paradox where the more people travel, the more the virus is spreading, and the more the virus spreads, the more likely you’ll need to cancel (and the more likely people will try to protect themselves). Which is precisely what’s happening in Hawaii. The whole thing is problematic, with trip stacking just a symptom of a much bigger issue. Before we throw out words like “selfish,” let’s remember that the true essential workers here just want everyone to stay home; they couldn’t care less that this could make it harder for bargain seekers to come to Hawaii on the cheap.

Fair that service industry workers are arguably not essential, but it’s is essential to them and their families that they get a paycheck and the covid related supports are over. It’s Labor Day weekend. We can’t make low wage workers who rely on tips to boost miserable wages invisible in this conversation even if we wish people would choose not to travel.

[goldengirlz]

Sept 5, 2021 12:55:22 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Sept 5, 2021 12:04:43 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I think this is the rub. So many people got screwed last spring and lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars. More recently, there were stories coming out of Tahoe last week of AirBNB/VRBO owners refusing to give refunds even with the fire danger and terrible air quality. They didn’t want to lose all that Labor Day weekend revenue.

I’m sympathetic to both sides but it’s basically become a free for all. And with covid still very much a thing — not to mention the potential for new variants — anyone thinking of planning a trip this year, or even early next, has to assume it could be cancelled. That risk is being shared among travelers and the hotel industry.

The OP specifically called out “essential workers,” but none of this is essential. Yeah, it sucks that travel is in disarray right now, but it’s also a big part of how the virus is spreading. Forget about higher prices — it’s basically become this paradox where the more people travel, the more the virus is spreading, and the more the virus spreads, the more likely you’ll need to cancel (and the more likely people will try to protect themselves). Which is precisely what’s happening in Hawaii. The whole thing is problematic, with trip stacking just a symptom of a much bigger issue. Before we throw out words like “selfish,” let’s remember that the true essential workers here just want everyone to stay home; they couldn’t care less that this could make it harder for bargain seekers to come to Hawaii on the cheap.

Fair that service industry workers are arguably not essential, but it’s is essential to them and their families that they get a paycheck and the covid related supports are over. It’s Labor Day weekend. We can’t make low wage workers who rely on tips to boost miserable wages invisible in this conversation even if we wish people would choose not to travel.

Counterpoint: The only way to get rid of the covid-related support is to get rid of covid. Or at least get it under control. If you take a place like Hawaii, the governor is telling tourists to stay home. So the question is, if you have a trip planned for, say, November, is it unethical to have a backup plan? Or to put it another way, for the service workers of Hawaii (some of whom ALSO want tourists to stay home these days — it’s not a simple issue), the trip stacking is not the primary problem right now.

(FTR, I have no dog in this fight since we’ve stopped leisure travel until things get better.)

[seeyalater52]

Sept 5, 2021 13:08:48 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Sept 5, 2021 12:55:22 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Fair that service industry workers are arguably not essential, but it’s is essential to them and their families that they get a paycheck and the covid related supports are over. It’s Labor Day weekend. We can’t make low wage workers who rely on tips to boost miserable wages invisible in this conversation even if we wish people would choose not to travel.

Counterpoint: The only way to get rid of the covid-related support is to get rid of covid. Or at least get it under control. If you take a place like Hawaii, the governor is telling tourists to stay home. So the question is, if you have a trip planned for, say, November, is it unethical to have a backup plan? Or to put it another way, for the service workers of Hawaii (some of whom ALSO want tourists to stay home these days — it’s not a simple issue), the trip stacking is not the primary problem right now.

(FTR, I have no dog in this fight since we’ve stopped leisure travel until things get better.)

Obviously I agree with that too! I just think the goal is to continue support for ordinary people who are impacted by this and service industry workers have really gotten the shaft. That doesn’t mean we should travel Willy Nilly but it is a side effect (one of many) of this behavior and the situation we are all collectively in that gets routinely overlooked.

[aurora]

Sept 5, 2021 13:08:48 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Sept 5, 2021 12:55:22 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Fair that service industry workers are arguably not essential, but it’s is essential to them and their families that they get a paycheck and the covid related supports are over. It’s Labor Day weekend. We can’t make low wage workers who rely on tips to boost miserable wages invisible in this conversation even if we wish people would choose not to travel.

Counterpoint: The only way to get rid of the covid-related support is to get rid of covid. Or at least get it under control. If you take a place like Hawaii, the governor is telling tourists to stay home. So the question is, if you have a trip planned for, say, November, is it unethical to have a backup plan? Or to put it another way, for the service workers of Hawaii (some of whom ALSO want tourists to stay home these days — it’s not a simple issue), the trip stacking is not the primary problem right now.

(FTR, I have no dog in this fight since we’ve stopped leisure travel until things get better.)

I do agree that it's complicated. There aren't many places where everyone living/working there agrees on the next best steps, and as usual it is often the people with the least power and privilege whose voices get drowned out.

[goldengirlz]

Look, my point is this:

We’re in a shit situation. The healthcare system in many of these popular to tourist destinations is buckling, close to collapse.

Be outraged on behalf of service workers. Travelers of all stripes are culpable. Anti-vaxxers are culpable. The government is culpable for cutting the UI enhancement.

But if this SPECIFIC issue of trip stacking is where you’re focusing your white hot outrage, you’re missing the forest for the trees. The idea that we should be risking service workers’ lives for the stake of the economy is downright, well, Republican.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 5, 2021 13:40:11 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Look, my point is this:

We’re in a shit situation. The healthcare system in many of these popular to tourist destinations is buckling, close to collapse.

Be outraged on behalf of service workers. Travelers of all stripes are culpable. Anti-vaxxers are culpable. The government is culpable for cutting the UI enhancement.

But if this SPECIFIC issue of trip stacking is where you’re focusing your white hot outrage, you’re wasting your mental energy in the wrong place. The idea that we should be risking service workers’ lives for the stake of the economy is downright, well, Republican.

Is anyone saying that? I get that you’re heated about this but that seems like a stretch. I think you know me well enough to know that I’m not a Republican.

ETA: wanting the government to re-start the covid safety net they prematurely yanked away is basically the opposite of Republican. In fact, literal republicans (and a couple of democrats) are currently blocking a bill to do just that.

[goldengirlz]

Sept 5, 2021 13:47:02 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Sept 5, 2021 13:40:11 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Look, my point is this:

We’re in a shit situation. The healthcare system in many of these popular to tourist destinations is buckling, close to collapse.

Be outraged on behalf of service workers. Travelers of all stripes are culpable. Anti-vaxxers are culpable. The government is culpable for cutting the UI enhancement.

But if this SPECIFIC issue of trip stacking is where you’re focusing your white hot outrage, you’re wasting your mental energy in the wrong place. The idea that we should be risking service workers’ lives for the stake of the economy is downright, well, Republican.

Is anyone saying that? I get that you’re heated about this but that seems like a stretch. I think you know me well enough to know that I’m not a Republican.

Ha, I know you’re not. The OP was about trip stacking which is why I keep circling back to that. I’m frustrated because no one is explaining how THAT negatively impacts service workers except to say that it could hypothetically raise prices or result in more cancellations. But if people are cancelling because it’s not safe to travel to their destination, isn’t that a GOOD thing? Doesn’t that HELP service workers? So are people advocating that the solution is to just cancel and not have a backup plan? Are those people really selfish assholes or are they just trying to do the best they can?

ETA: There’s a reason people aren’t exactly clamoring to work a service job right now. We have more vacancies than unemployed people. The jobs are there — but they’re sucky jobs.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 5, 2021 13:51:51 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Sept 5, 2021 13:47:02 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Is anyone saying that? I get that you’re heated about this but that seems like a stretch. I think you know me well enough to know that I’m not a Republican.

Ha, I know you’re not. The OP was about trip stacking which is why I keep circling back to that. I’m frustrated because no one is explaining how THAT negatively impacts service workers except to say that it could hypothetically raise prices or result in more cancellations. But if people are cancelling because it’s not safe to travel to their destination, isn’t that a GOOD thing? Doesn’t that HELP service workers? So are people advocating that the solution is to just cancel and not have a backup plan? Are those people really selfish assholes or are they just trying to do the best they can?

I think both things can be true simultaneously. I also think that the trip stacking behavior described in the article, assuming it is actually happening, is kind of shitty. AND agree with you that trip stacking is only one small piece of a much bigger problem and that the people doing it don’t deserve 100% of the blame for the burdens it causes on the system. I also admit I find it very hard to believe that the lion’s share of trip stackers (?) are canceling trips because they want to keep themselves and others safe from covid. People don’t give a flying fuck about that anymore beyond some small corners of the world. It’s conjecture but I think they likely care about inconvenience to themselves and not being able to do whatever the fuck they want to on vacation with no restrictions.

We need to restore the covid safety net STAT. That is my point.