Is it still taboo to ask about a salary before interviewing?

[georgeharrison]

As I mentioned in today's randoms thread, I have a call set up for a job that looks awesome for my dream company.  The job takes a lot of my experience and skills, but it is a completely different role.  I have zero idea of what to expect for salary.  I have done some research online and the range is drastic: $54k - $120k.  I currently make around the high end of this range.  I would be okay taking a pay cut to get into this company, but I cannot go down to $54k for sure!  

I have been in email communication with the hiring manager.  The last email was him saying he was going to set up our call for Monday and then I got a zoom invite right after.  

I'd like to send him an email reiterating my interest in the position, but letting him know that because it's a different type of role, so I don't know what to expect for compensation and asking him for a range...letting him know, as well, that I have done some research online, but that the range is very wide.

Is this still taboo?  I don't want to spend all weekend being excited about this position only to have the salary come up and have it be way too low.  

[sofamonkey]

It’s your dream job, so I say do the interview anyway.

I don’t think it hurts to ask ahead of time though. Just out of curiosity, why are you going into this ready to take a pay-cut? I’d get right out of that mindset. WWMWMD. (What would mediocre white men do)

[georgeharrison]

Sept 10, 2021 10:44:34 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

It’s your dream job, so I say do the interview anyway.

I don’t think it hurts to ask ahead of time though. Just out of curiosity, why are you going into this ready to take a pay-cut? I’d get right out of that mindset. WWMWMD. (What would mediocre white men do)

I'd be willing to take a pay cut because I feel like I'm overpaid at my current role.    But yes, WWMWMD indeed!  

[proximacentauri]

Have you had any contact with a recruiter? Generally, salary expectations are discussed initially with them.

Since you really want to work for this company, I wouldn’t ask in advance. Even if the salary is too low for you, having the interview will give you a connection in case a job opens up that you’d like and better meets your salary needs.

I’ve you’ve had contact with the recruiter, I’d ask that person after the interview. If not, I think it’s acceptable to as the hiring manager at the end of the upcoming interview.

[kath16]

Sept 10, 2021 10:51:31 GMT -5 proximacentauri said:

Have you had any contact with a recruiter? Generally, salary expectations are discussed initially with them.

Since you really want to work for this company, I wouldn’t ask in advance. Even if the salary is too low for you, having the interview will give you a connection in case a job opens up that you’d like and better meets your salary needs.

I’ve you’ve had contact with the recruiter, I’d ask that person after the interview. If not, I think it’s acceptable to as the hiring manager at the end of the upcoming interview.

strongly disagree with this.

why waste everyone's time? have the discussion, and if the expectations are not aligned with the pay for the role, just let them know that you're interested in the company and would love to hear about any future opportunities closer to your range.

[shopgirl07]

You absolutely can ask for a range! And I doubt you’re overpaid, don’t sell yourself short!

[Deleted]

Pay is part of the benefits of a position and should be competitive imo

Meaning employees should be paying their employees well enough to keep them

[bex1973]

Ask.

And it's ridiculous that positions are posted without salary indicated. There is a big push in my industry to try to stop that madness.

[shortstax]

Absolutely ask! No hiring manager or recruiter worth a lick would bat an eye at it.

I would say something like "I'm looking forward to meeting with you to discuss X position. To be respectful of your time, would you mind sharing the salary range for this position?"

[ellipses84]

I think it’s ok to ask the range to HR because it’s a different role, but I wouldn’t mention online research. I typically don’t ask though, especially if it’s a unique position. If they aren’t transparent about it from the start, they may have a lot of flexibility or push you to give them a number (which I would give them a high range or what you make now, but tell them you are very interested in the position for the experience). In a similar situation a company was hesitant because they weren’t sure I could be happy with such a big pay cut, but I assured them I would be. The high paying job was unique but I preferred the role they were going to offer me more.

[georgeharrison]

Well, I emailed him and have no resolution with his response:

We're a bit interesting in how we look at compensation - we don't have ranges. We pay at market for a location based on contribution - what that means ultimately is that we look at each candidate individually - what compensation you need in conjunction based on what we estimate your level of contribution to be (and looking of course at market trends as well).

I know it can feel a bit like a non-answer, but we can chat more about it on Monday as well. It's an interesting thing because we don't officially have a "limit" but definitely want to make sure we're not playing in different ballparks either

[proximacentauri]

Sept 10, 2021 10:55:37 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Sept 10, 2021 10:51:31 GMT -5 proximacentauri said:

Have you had any contact with a recruiter? Generally, salary expectations are discussed initially with them.

Since you really want to work for this company, I wouldn’t ask in advance. Even if the salary is too low for you, having the interview will give you a connection in case a job opens up that you’d like and better meets your salary needs.

I’ve you’ve had contact with the recruiter, I’d ask that person after the interview. If not, I think it’s acceptable to as the hiring manager at the end of the upcoming interview.

strongly disagree with this.

why waste everyone's time? have the discussion, and if the expectations are not aligned with the pay for the role, just let them know that you're interested in the company and would love to hear about any future opportunities closer to your range.

I’m not sure what you’re hard disagreeing with.

Since this sounds like a phone screen, and not a second interview. I see no reason to close a door early.

As the person interviewing, if I really want a job at a given company, it’s not a waste of my time to have a phone call and make a connection.

As a hiring manager, I’ve had interviews that have gone well, but the person wasn’t the right fit or best fit for the position. But I’ve given feedback to the recruiter to about directing these individuals to other positions in the org.

So, have the call, and before moving on to second interviews have the salary conversation.

[onomatopoeia]

Sept 10, 2021 12:19:07 GMT -5 georgeharrison said:

Well, I emailed him and have no resolution with his response:

We're a bit interesting in how we look at compensation - we don't have ranges. We pay at market for a location based on contribution - what that means ultimately is that we look at each candidate individually - what compensation you need in conjunction based on what we estimate your level of contribution to be (and looking of course at market trends as well).

I know it can feel a bit like a non-answer, but we can chat more about it on Monday as well. It's an interesting thing because we don't officially have a "limit" but definitely want to make sure we're not playing in different ballparks either

I mean, isn't that how most companies determine compensation?  Location and contribution?  I wouldn't say that's "interesting" lol.  Maybe I'm cynical but to me that reads as "we're going to ask you to state a salary range first and see if you lowball yourself".  I hope I'm wrong though (and even if I'm not, at least you're prepared going in).  Good luck!  

[wizardressofoz]

I would do the phone screen and ask for the range there.

[gretchenindisguise]

In that scenario after his response, on Monday I'd tell him your current salary and see how he responds. I don't think you'll have to take a pay cut.

[iheartbanjos]

I’m in sales and would never sit down for an interview prior to knowing the pay, but that’s the norm for sales people.

Job opportunities for me either go through a recruiter or a contact at the company of interest, so it’s not a discussion with the hiring manager.

[sofamonkey]

I know you said you feel overpaid currently, but I’d set that aside. If asked to state your salary request, ask higher than your current by a decent percentage. There’s an entire thread about imposter syndrome. Maybe read that? Also, you’re worth more than what you sell yourself short to be.

[rebneen]

Research overwhelmingly shows that women and minorities are the most harmed by lack of salary transparency. Upholding this system perpetuates continued inequity in employment and hiring practices.

Every phone screen for a large company I’ve had has been with a recruiter or HR - neither of whom gave me any networking potential. I think that mythical possibility holds about 0 weight against upholding a system that directly harms me!

[bex1973]

Sept 10, 2021 13:16:24 GMT -5 rebneen said:

Research overwhelmingly shows that women and minorities are the most harmed by lack of salary transparency. Upholding this system perpetuates continued inequity in employment and hiring practices.

Every phone screen for a large company I’ve had has been with a recruiter or HR - neither of whom gave me any networking potential. I think that mythical possibility holds about 0 weight against upholding a system that directly harms me!

YES. A thousand times YES to ALL of this!

[proximacentauri]

Sept 10, 2021 13:16:24 GMT -5 rebneen said:

Research overwhelmingly shows that women and minorities are the most harmed by lack of salary transparency. Upholding this system perpetuates continued inequity in employment and hiring practices.

Every phone screen for a large company I’ve had has been with a recruiter or HR - neither of whom gave me any networking potential. I think that mythical possibility holds about 0 weight against upholding a system that directly harms me!

I think that salary transparency important. If that information isn’t given directly from the company, I encourage to people to give realistic, but aggressive, band of what pay you want for the position.

Also, don’t discount having a recruiter connection with a large company. That’s an open door for you. In the spirit of an earlier post, would a mediocre white man reach out to a recruiter they knew if they saw a posting they liked? Absolutely they would. I’ve gotten a job that way. Wasn’t right for the initial position, but giving the recruiter a heads up that applied for a different one a few months later did.

[foundmylazybum]

I'd tell them I make the high end of the range. Even if it's not true that's what you want to get to.

[mambo123]

I applied for my current job not knowing the salary. I was blown away by the offer (still negotiated but didn’t not need to), especially for what I consider a small company, less than 25 employees.

Now that I’m here I see how old school they are with everything! Everyone has been here for many many years (20+). Since I was dealing directly with the hiring manager I decided not to ask, for me it was the right move as I can now tell that would have soured them on me.

Good luck with the phone screen and see if you can get more out of him with the salary!

[winecat]

Sept 10, 2021 10:47:04 GMT -5 georgeharrison said:

Sept 10, 2021 10:44:34 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

It’s your dream job, so I say do the interview anyway.

I don’t think it hurts to ask ahead of time though. Just out of curiosity, why are you going into this ready to take a pay-cut? I’d get right out of that mindset. WWMWMD. (What would mediocre white men do)

I'd be willing to take a pay cut because I feel like I'm overpaid at my current role.    But yes, WWMWMD indeed!  

No mediocre white man thinks he is overpaid.  

[seeyalater52]

Sept 10, 2021 13:57:15 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

I'd tell them I make the high end of the range. Even if it's not true that's what you want to get to.

So genuine question about this, if you live someplace where they can ask for your salary history doesn’t this open you up to being caught in a lie? I like the spirit of the suggestion just wondering if it might be one of those things that really backfires in certain situations.

[winecat]

Sept 10, 2021 12:19:07 GMT -5 georgeharrison said:

Well, I emailed him and have no resolution with his response:

We're a bit interesting in how we look at compensation - we don't have ranges. We pay at market for a location based on contribution - what that means ultimately is that we look at each candidate individually - what compensation you need in conjunction based on what we estimate your level of contribution to be (and looking of course at market trends as well).

I know it can feel a bit like a non-answer, but we can chat more about it on Monday as well. It's an interesting thing because we don't officially have a "limit" but definitely want to make sure we're not playing in different ballparks either

This is annoying AF.  And I agree with the poster who said that they want to see if you'll lowball yourself.  Please don't accept a lower salary and set yourself back however many years it'll take to make up that ground.  People use new jobs to make bigger salary jumps than they could accomplish with raises.  Don't sell yourself short.  

[foundmylazybum]

Sept 10, 2021 14:14:28 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Sept 10, 2021 13:57:15 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

I'd tell them I make the high end of the range. Even if it's not true that's what you want to get to.

So genuine question about this, if you live someplace where they can ask for your salary history doesn’t this open you up to being caught in a lie? I like the spirit of the suggestion just wondering if it might be one of those things that really backfires in certain situations.

Yes--I think it can open you up to being caught in a lie--maybe. Except that when asked this (shitty and I believe becoming illegal) question, I also respond with a big word salad similar to what the OP was given above that ends with "The range of salary I earn is between xyz and xyz." TBH I've only been demanded a direct answer one time and it was when I was switching military contractors. I told them how much I made plus benefits. Then I negotiated a 2% increase plus them covering the costs of continuing education costs that helped me and the company. It's a little bit different of a scenario--but that being said, I think I'm a bit of a negotiator. The cost of schooling cost 4 grand. They didn't want to give me a raise but they paid for that just like that! 


www.hrdive.com/news/salary-history-ban-states-list/516662/ this is a link to the states and local areas where doing this is actually illegal. 


Here is some advice from AAM about it: 
www.askamanager.org/2014/01/how-to-avoid-giving-employers-your-salary-history.html

[georgeharrison]

Background info if it matters (long):

This company is a vendor for the industry that I am in. I have loved this product/service for a long time and it's been like my career goal to work for this company. At my last company, I built a business case to bring on this service. My company pushed back and pushed back, but is now, finally, moving forward with them.

While I was at my previous company, I worked very closely with our account manager. She was new, we were her first real account, and she says that I helped her a lot. We have become friends and stayed in touch. She told me at one point that her goal was to get me to work with her. I was like, "heck yes"! Most of their opportunities, although remote, require a lot of travel 50-75%. That is too much for my family, so I was waiting. Yesterday, she sent me an opening over linkedin that only has "up to 25%" travel. So, I'm really excited about that. I'm not a sales-type person, so it is not in her group. She has a relationship with the hiring manager, though, so she pinged him and shared my profile with him. He said he liked it, so she introduced us via email.

I sent him my resume and a short note about my background and desire to be part of this company. He set up the zoom call for Monday. I sent him an email asking about salary and got the response I posted above.

Some notes that my friend gave me is that some of her compensation is in stocks, it is not all in her paycheck. She also told me that they do not negotiate. They will give me a number that they have some calculation that they use based off whatever factors and that spits out a salary and that's it. <---This is why I find it hard to believe that they cannot give me a range. If they take things like my years of experience, the position, etc., that should all be calculable right now.

I am currently at a start up with a very high salary. When I came here, I got a 30% increase in base, stock options, a higher bonus %, lower benefits costs, extra perks, better culture, etc. That is why I'm reluctant to insist on my same salary or higher. I like this company that I'm at. I don't NEED to leave. But this other company is my dream, so I'm excited about the possibility.

[lucygoosey]

On Monday, you should absolutely have a salary discussion. Though the recruiter’s non-answer says they don’t have a limit, your input will help them prep if they need to go to upper management to meet your request.

I just started a job this week where they asked me for a target number early on. I told them my number and they tried to get me to come down a few different times. When I didn’t, they ultimately made an offer at my number so it can work!

And do not feel pressured if they throw in irrelevant things about the salary history for the role because you are coming in with a fresh slate.

[jwright]

Sept 10, 2021 12:19:07 GMT -5 georgeharrison said:

Well, I emailed him and have no resolution with his response:

We're a bit interesting in how we look at compensation - we don't have ranges. We pay at market for a location based on contribution - what that means ultimately is that we look at each candidate individually - what compensation you need in conjunction based on what we estimate your level of contribution to be (and looking of course at market trends as well).

I know it can feel a bit like a non-answer, but we can chat more about it on Monday as well. It's an interesting thing because we don't officially have a "limit" but definitely want to make sure we're not playing in different ballparks either

This sounds like gibberish. It feels like a no answer because it is.

[fumbalina]

Sept 10, 2021 15:21:05 GMT -5 jwright said:

Sept 10, 2021 12:19:07 GMT -5 georgeharrison said:

Well, I emailed him and have no resolution with his response:

We're a bit interesting in how we look at compensation - we don't have ranges. We pay at market for a location based on contribution - what that means ultimately is that we look at each candidate individually - what compensation you need in conjunction based on what we estimate your level of contribution to be (and looking of course at market trends as well).

I know it can feel a bit like a non-answer, but we can chat more about it on Monday as well. It's an interesting thing because we don't officially have a "limit" but definitely want to make sure we're not playing in different ballparks either

This sounds like gibberish. It feels like a no answer because it is.

I would say worse than gibberish. It sounds like actively concealing compensation. It would make me leery no matter how much a "dream job" it is.