MOOKS: Anyone send their kid on an international field trip?

[macmars45]

I might consider it for a 16-18 year old kid. Not for an 11-14 year old. That's not even taking covid into the equation. Other countries have much lower vaccine rates than the US due to vaccine inequality. I'd be a hard no.

[Becca]

Oct 18, 2021 8:51:18 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

I still struggle with how elite (or something?) this trip is. Obviously, it's an amazing opportunity, but also offered to really young kids, and it's way beyond what MOST kids their age get to do. Still unsure how the $$ part works and if there is fundraising, etc, so that anyone could go. Usually fundraising doesn't cover everything.

I wish the school would save this for when they were older and not put families in the position of making this call. I feel on some level that the kid would be JUST as excited and have just as much fun on some kind of cool trip within the US that would be cheaper & easier to manage. Sure, they will love the Galapagos (!), but they would also love a national park or similar within the US.

I already commented, but I keep thinking about this post, and just have to add an agreement with everything you’ve said.

And even with fundraising, it is still hard for me to get on board with. Fundraising requires having people to sell to, or taking off work in order to participate in a fundraising effort (ie the concession stand example that someone mentioned). Both can be hard for someone who needs to fundraise to begin with.

I’m still so curious about this school that is offering this trip. Is it a public school? Private school? How many kids (% of those eligible) actually go on the trip?

[sugarbear1]

Not just no, but absolutely, no way on earth.
I've chaperoned those trips as a teacher. No, nope, no.
Double no because of Covid.

ETA: even fundraising is inequitable. Wealthy people are surrounded by wealthy people. 

[gerberdaisy]

I did a people to people trip to Australia and New Zealand when I was going into 8th grade, it was an amazing opportunity. Then did an exchange program in high school. I would highly recommend. We got to experience so many amazing things and I just can't imagine have an opportunity like then when I was older. Sure I'd get more out of it now, but its not going to happen, I'm not taking a month and traveling around, living with other families and doing all the cultural events.

[hbomdiggity]

I can’t imagine the average middle schooler would get enough from this trip to make it worthwhile. There must be other locations, even within North America, that will provide similar educational benefits.

[wanderingback]

Oct 18, 2021 12:39:39 GMT -5 Becca said:

Oct 18, 2021 8:51:18 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

I still struggle with how elite (or something?) this trip is. Obviously, it's an amazing opportunity, but also offered to really young kids, and it's way beyond what MOST kids their age get to do. Still unsure how the $$ part works and if there is fundraising, etc, so that anyone could go. Usually fundraising doesn't cover everything.

I wish the school would save this for when they were older and not put families in the position of making this call. I feel on some level that the kid would be JUST as excited and have just as much fun on some kind of cool trip within the US that would be cheaper & easier to manage. Sure, they will love the Galapagos (!), but they would also love a national park or similar within the US.

I already commented, but I keep thinking about this post, and just have to add an agreement with everything you’ve said.

And even with fundraising, it is still hard for me to get on board with. Fundraising requires having people to sell to, or taking off work in order to participate in a fundraising effort (ie the concession stand example that someone mentioned). Both can be hard for someone who needs to fundraise to begin with.

I’m still so curious about this school that is offering this trip. Is it a public school? Private school? How many kids (% of those eligible) actually go on the trip?

My ex used to work at a charter school and the 8th graders went to Puerto Rico and the 7th graders went to DC. The funding for the trip was essentially a part of the school budget, there wasn’t fundraising, parents didn’t have to pay and everyone was eligible to go. They specifically stuck with US states/territories so that parents wouldn’t have to pay for passports. This charter school had different schools around the country and they were all the same. I wish this were an option at all public schools!

[wise_rita]

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

[imojoebunny]

For us, it would depend on what other options are available. We have the time and ability to travel a lot with our kids, like 10 weeks this year, and we prefer to take them with us. I wouldn't say hell no, it would depend on the cost and what else we could do with the money. If it was $2-3K, and my kid really wanted to go, and the trip seemed like it would be safe, then probably, but if it is $7-8K, then it would be a no, because all 4 of us could go on a great vacation with that amount of money.

[devonpow]

Oct 18, 2021 16:06:18 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

I like you, lol. I was having many of these same feelings reading the responses but couldn’t verbalize it.

[SusanBAnthony]

Oct 18, 2021 16:06:18 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

I think you are totally off base with this.

I have absolutely found travel transformative for me. I still think a trip to the freaking Galapagos for middle schoolers is over the top. And it isn't about spending money on ME, it's about that trip being expensive as hell.

And seriously that you are saying equity shouldn't be a concern? Maybe examine yourself a little.

[VillainV]

Oct 18, 2021 16:06:18 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

I’ve had plenty of transformative travel experiences. My family simply couldn’t international travel when I was a kid, but we did extensive road trips around the US. As an adult I’ve done international travel, and it’s been amazing as well. Kids don’t NEED international travel experiences, and depending on the kid and location, some may not get that much out of it (and of course others will).

As for COVID….well, yeah, I expect international travel might never go back to being the same as it used to be. Add in increased environmental impact of leisure and business travel, and we might all need to make a lot of tough choices about whether or not a trip should be made.

[lindyanne]

Oct 16, 2021 22:02:14 GMT -5 krystee said:

It would somewhat depend on the cost for me. Also, I really want to go to the Galapagos, so I’m going to be honest that I’d be a little salty about my middle schooler going before me.

Out of curiosity, is this a private school where everyone paying the tuition can basically afford to go? Equity issues would be one reason I might hesitate to participate, but if money isn’t really an object or if there are multiple scholarships so everyone who wants to can go, that isn’t a factor.

No it’s just like an extra opportunity trip. It’s open to kids as young as 5th grade through 8th I guess. There are 3 teachers going and I think like 32 spots (I think that’s what fills the bus. I guess if they had enough interest to fill the entire bus they’d take a second). Parents can go too at around the same cost. There are (if I had to guess) 1500 kids at the MS (6-8th grade).

[lindyanne]

Oct 18, 2021 16:06:18 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

This is pretty much where I am. DH and I did not grow up with any money. He went to the beach one or twice and to visit family. I went to the beach twice growing up and a few other small trips. I did go to Honduras on a mission trip in high school and I definitely had to fundraise and my dad had to scrape together the rest. We are very fortunate we can afford this. I don’t think there is any financial help for kids that can’t afford it but since there is going to be 1-2% of the school going it’s not going to be a thing where 75% or the school is going and some can’t.

DH has no interest in this destination. I think it would be cool to go but I also think it would be a great experience for DS to go without me. He is pretty independent, has been away from us a good bit (but always with family and friends) but two of his friends from K are going. Also they all love animals and I think this very controlled environment will be a great way to spread his wings.

As for COVID, the tour director (a teacher) can postpone the tour, we have an opportunity to purchase extra insurance that we can use for any reason. I know that’s a concern.

I was really looking for extra tips like things to pack, don’t do this, etc.

[devonpow]

Oct 18, 2021 20:29:05 GMT -5 lindyanne said:

Oct 18, 2021 16:06:18 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

This is pretty much where I am. DH and I did not grow up with any money. He went to the beach one or twice and to visit family. I went to the beach twice growing up and a few other small trips. I did go to Honduras on a mission trip in high school and I definitely had to fundraise and my dad had to scrape together the rest. We are very fortunate we can afford this. I don’t think there is any financial help for kids that can’t afford it but since there is going to be 1-2% of the school going it’s not going to be a thing where 75% or the school is going and some can’t.

DH has no interest in this destination. I think it would be cool to go but I also think it would be a great experience for DS to go without me. He is pretty independent, has been away from us a good bit (but always with family and friends) but two of his friends from K are going. Also they all love animals and I think this very controlled environment will be a great way to spread his wings.

As for COVID, the tour director (a teacher) can postpone the tour, we have an opportunity to purchase extra insurance that we can use for any reason. I know that’s a concern.

I was really looking for extra tips like things to pack, don’t do this, etc.

will they have a packing list? They usually do. Less is more, but also depends on access to laundry etc. I think it will be so great! If it’s anything like the trips I have been on/know they will give you a ton of information on what to bring, rules Etc etc etc

[lindyanne]

Oct 18, 2021 20:34:27 GMT -5 devonpow said:

Oct 18, 2021 20:29:05 GMT -5 lindyanne said:

This is pretty much where I am. DH and I did not grow up with any money. He went to the beach one or twice and to visit family. I went to the beach twice growing up and a few other small trips. I did go to Honduras on a mission trip in high school and I definitely had to fundraise and my dad had to scrape together the rest. We are very fortunate we can afford this. I don’t think there is any financial help for kids that can’t afford it but since there is going to be 1-2% of the school going it’s not going to be a thing where 75% or the school is going and some can’t.

DH has no interest in this destination. I think it would be cool to go but I also think it would be a great experience for DS to go without me. He is pretty independent, has been away from us a good bit (but always with family and friends) but two of his friends from K are going. Also they all love animals and I think this very controlled environment will be a great way to spread his wings.

As for COVID, the tour director (a teacher) can postpone the tour, we have an opportunity to purchase extra insurance that we can use for any reason. I know that’s a concern.

I was really looking for extra tips like things to pack, don’t do this, etc.

will they have a packing list? They usually do. Less is more, but also depends on access to laundry etc. I think it will be so great! If it’s anything like the trips I have been on/know they will give you a ton of information on what to bring, rules Etc etc etc

I am assuming there will be another meeting/a lot more info once we sign up. My son didn't express interest in the trip until after the initial informational meeting happened so I missed the opportunity to ask questions but did get a lot of the info they shared in that from a friend. 

[Becca]

Oct 18, 2021 19:41:37 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Oct 18, 2021 16:06:18 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

I think you are totally off base with this.

I have absolutely found travel transformative for me. I still think a trip to the freaking Galapagos for middle schoolers is over the top. And it isn't about spending money on ME, it's about that trip being expensive as hell.

And seriously that you are saying equity shouldn't be a concern? Maybe examine yourself a little.

Yes. There will always be families that can afford to do more and families that can afford to do less. And travel is amazing - once I was on my own, I made sure to travel as much as I could.

But I believe that the offerings of a public school should generally be accessible to the entire student body. A trip of this nature obviously is not.

ETA - and I didn’t share that story because it was tragic. Making my own way definitely benefited me in the long run. But it does color how I see the world, and it gives me pause when I see public schools providing offerings that clearly put students from different backgrounds on different playing fields.

[wise_rita]

Oct 18, 2021 19:41:37 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Oct 18, 2021 16:06:18 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

HOLY SHIT to the comments "if I'm spending this kind of money on a trip it'll be for me, not my kid". WTF, people!

I'm also really blown away by the sentiment "some kids can't afford to go, so mine shouldn't either". Becca that is an incredibly tragic story, and I am so sorry, but to scrap the whole thing for everyone is bonkers. And realistically the trip will still happen, so one person taking a righteous stand will do nothing on a broader scale.

I feel like there are two types of posters in here: those who have had transformative travel experiences and those who have not. It's pretty clear who is who. The Covid concerns are legit, though. However I don't foresee anything being hugely different Covid-wise in 2, 3, 4 years time. So we're going to put life on hold indefinitely? It's still early I realize, but I bet this conversation will be happening for years to come.

This will literally change the trajectory of your kids life, in ways he won't ever fully grasp. I don't believe for one hot second the sentiment that "he's too young to get anything out of it". That is 100% horseshit!

I think you are totally off base with this.

I have absolutely found travel transformative for me. I still think a trip to the freaking Galapagos for middle schoolers is over the top. And it isn't about spending money on ME, it's about that trip being expensive as hell.

And seriously that you are saying equity shouldn't be a concern? Maybe examine yourself a little.

I didn't even imply this, so I am clearly not saying equity should not be a concern.  Sheesh.  But cancelling the whole thing on account of equity - as has been suggested here - is over the damn top.

And Becca I wanted to point out that I don't think YOU were the one saying to scratch the whole trip due to equity.  Others, of presumably more privileged upbringings said it outright.  I don't know, it just feels very "white savior" to me. 

[thebreakfastclub]

The phrase "transformative travel experiences" is a new nails on the chalkboard phrase for me, lol.

I feel it's a stretch to say 100 out of 100 8th graders will have a transformative experience from a trip they didn't care about that much until they found out friends were going.

Then again, I don't have transformative travel experiences, I just go on vacation.

[CloudBee]

No. I went to DC in middle school and there wasn't nearly as much supervision as there should have been. Looking back I'm aghast at how much freedom we had. I also can't imagine my child unexpectedly ending up with something like appendicitis in a foreign country with chaperones, as a middle or high school student. Away on a trip with close friends? Sure. But on a school trip you never know who will be paired with your child to run to the hospital.

This is very much outside of our family's comfort zone.

[majesty318]

Becca's story makes me sad. I was in the band in high school and we had loads of fundraising opportunities so no one was left behind. If you worked at a fundraising event, you got proportionally a piece of the profit. We also had a choir in high school. Their trips were paid by the people's parents who could afford it - no fundraising. I still remember my parents being irate over this (neither grew up with money).

I studied abroad in college and yes, it was a transformative travel experience. I wish my middle/ high school had offered international trips also. If your son wants to go, and if you feel safe Covid-wise, I would definitely do it. I am hoping my son wants to experience such trips (he is 11 months so we have a while to go).

Based on my study abroad, you will receive info about what to bring/ not bring and cultural differences to be aware of. I would make sure he has good trip insurance and international cell plan.

However, if he does not want to go, and since you are doing an international family trip shortly before, I would not push it. He is still young and has a lot of time for such experiences.

[frlcb]

Travel is important to some families, and not to others. It is super important to ours, and my 8th grader would LOVE to go to the Galapagos, and would get a lot out of it. I hate the notion that no kids will get anything out of a trip like this in middle school, that simply isn't true.

It's totally fine if this kind of trip isn't your families thing, but it's a great opportunity for others.

[dulcemariamar]

Oct 16, 2021 20:36:53 GMT -5 melmaria said:

My teen is doing an international exchange trip in Europe next year, but she’s 16/in high school and it isn’t during any big school travel breaks.

Not sure if we would have done it in middle school - but I’m not immediately opposed to the idea.

That is cool. Which program is she using ?

[dulcemariamar]

Oct 20, 2021 14:02:29 GMT -5 melmaria said:

Oct 19, 2021 16:23:04 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

That is cool. Which program is she using ?

It’s a program directly through her high school, not an external program. She goes and lives with a host family for two weeks in one semester and then we host her “sister” for two weeks here the following semester. Her high school and the foreign high school have had this arrangement for decades.

Cool... I did the program with Rotary

[dulcemariamar]

Not taking COVID into account, I guess it would depend on a lot of factors like the destination and who was in charge of the safety and security of my kid.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable with Ecuador for middle school. I would probably be ok with a domestic trip. My main concern would be their emergency plan if there is an accident or medical emergency. Who would make those decisions on my behalf? I would want my child be older and be able to advocate for themselves better.

So I think it is a cool trip but maybe when they are older

[waverly]

What is the cost of the trip? I'm thinking maybe everyone is rich on this board.

[imojoebunny]

Oct 20, 2021 14:31:42 GMT -5 waverly said:

What is the cost of the trip? I'm thinking maybe everyone is rich on this board.

I am curious about the cost, too.  The Galápagos is usually a pretty expensive trip.  I would love to know what the cost is.