Braces and palatal expander

[hbomdiggity]

Welp, we’ve entered the orthodontic consultation world just before DS 7th birthday.

We have another consultation next week, but this orthodontist is recommending an expander due to overcrowding. There is no room for the canines to come in so this will apparently fix that. This is just a phase 1, he will have this set up for about a year and then we wait for full braces until all his adult teeth are in.

Dear god, the expander looks like a torture device (as someone who had headgear). And we have to “turn” it every night. Thankfully this young, DS sees braces as cool and he wants to fix his gap, but I am pretty that will suddenly change when he is in the chair and it gets set.

Anyone have experience with this? How uncomfortable is it?

[thebreakfastclub]

It bothered my son the first night, and we gave him ibuprofen. After that, it was much better and really not a major discomfort. They get used to it quickly. The tightening was ok.

[momin2013]

I had one, but I was older, I think maybe 13-14? I recall it being irritating for a few days as I got used to talking with it, but it wasn’t really all that painful. Each day after turning the key it was more of a dull ache. Turning the key isn’t difficult, he should be able to figure it out with a bit of assistance.

[plutosmoon]

DD has top and bottom expanders currently, she got them in February. We did the turning right before bedtime to minimize discomfort, it usually hurt for a bit, but was fine by morning. Towards the end it started hurting more, so the orthodontist recommended spread out the turning on the top to every other day. We also did ibuprofen a couple times. It really does look worse than it is. DD had a tough time during the installation, but she has a tough time with any kind of thing like this. Her bottom expander is removable and she got to pick whatever color she wanted which helped get her excited about it. I was concerned she'd lose the bottom one at school, but so far, so good.

[mrsGreeko]

It didn’t really bother my DS. Turning it wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought it would be. My DSs actually fell out and they were unable to replace it so he only had it for like 4 months. He had top braces for a year and now wears a retainer to keep the top teeth straight. He had a wire on the front two teeth to keep them in place, but it also fell off and the ortho opted not to replace it. His teeth look so much better. He also had 2 baby teeth pulled. He will get full braces once all his adult teeth are in.

Does your child snore or mouth breathe? Apparently these things can contribute to a narrow palate. My DS snored like a freight train and mouth breathed so noisily he could never win hide and seek. I had asked the pedi about the snoring, but they weren’t concerned. The orthodontist recommended an ENT consult because of the narrow palate though and my DS ended up getting his tonsils and adenoids removed and he stopped mouth breathing and snoring. Anyway, just figured I’d throw that out there.

[minniemouse]

Dd2 has a fixed upper expander and a lower retainer. She hated having the key turned on the upper, but thankfully, we only had to do it nightly for about a month. Now we are turning the bottom retainer once/week but that doesn’t bother her. Probably because I can take it out of her mouth to turn it. The worst part for her right now are the sores she gets from the retainer rubbing on her gum. The wax the orthodontist gave us didn’t really stick. Now that her top 2 front teeth finally came in they might put brackets on the top 4.
My friends daughter is getting the same treatment, and she just turned 7. Dd got them on at 8.5.
edited to fix typos 

[Susie]

My DD is going to be getting one too.  We're currently going for check-in's at the orthodontist every 4 months to figure out when they will start.  She's 6.5.  They're thinking next spring, when she's 7+.  In the meantime, she's had her bottom lateral incisors extracted before they loosened on their own.  The adult teeth aren't coming in yet, so that is providing temporary relief from the overcrowding, and allowing the adult bottom central incisors the freedom land in the right spot as much as possible.

Obviously I can't speak to the experience yet, but they have told us she'll adapt pretty quickly, and that I'll adapt pretty quickly to turning it.  I am much better able to get my head around that having done Invisalign only a few years ago.  It's not the same, but still some similar movement and aching happening.  Plus I was pg with DS when I did it, so I couldn't take Advil.

[notsopicky]

My son had one for about 6 months, at age 10 (this past school year, got it in August of 2021 and had it removed in February of 2022). It was uncomfortable the first night, and I was nervous about having to "turn" it, but it ended up being pretty easy for him and me. It caused a slight lisp, which he hated, but it was much less noticeable the longer he had the device in place. It only had to be turned for about 60 days, which I appreciated. The ortho said that it did its job, so now he just has braces on his top teeth. Those will be in for another year.

[hermione]

We’re getting C’s (9) expander Monday. Hers will be the kind she takes in and out which seems like a terrible idea to me. Is this what all of you have as well or do your kids have the kind that just stay in until the orthodontist removes it?

[timorousbeastie]

DD has had an expander on the top since April. She said her mouth was a tiny bit sore when it was first installed, but that went away quickly. We are (hopefully) on the last week of turning it right now; the past couple turns have been painful, and it takes slightly more force to do it. I’m assuming that’s just because we’re reaching the end. Previously, there was mild discomfort for a minute or two after turning it, then it was totally fine.

The most annoying part of it is food. There are so many things she can’t eat, or things that get stuck in it easily if she does eat them.

The expander has definitely been worth it. DD’s mouth was an overcrowded mess before she started it. Now her teeth (well, her top teeth anyway, the bottom is still a mess) look perfect. I really did not expect it to work so well - even a tooth that had grown in super high up shifted down into the right spot once it had room. Another tooth where she had lost the baby tooth 2 years ago finally grew in perfectly once it had room. So hopefully doing this now means she can avoid braces when she’s older.

ETA: DD’s expander is attached, not removable.

[minniemouse]

hermione, my dd has a removable lower one. I was worried she would lose it but so far, so good. She has cases stashed everywhere- backpack, lunch box, dance bag, my purse, the bathroom and our kitchen.

[plutosmoon]

Jun 15, 2022 19:51:08 GMT -5 hermione said:

We’re getting C’s (9) expander Monday. Hers will be the kind she takes in and out which seems like a terrible idea to me. Is this what all of you have as well or do your kids have the kind that just stay in until the orthodontist removes it?

DD has a removable one on the bottom and the top is cemented in. I was very worried it would get lost, broken or thrown out. It's gone much better than I anticipated. The day we got them we stopped for lunch and I made a big to do of showing her how easy it would be to toss if she didn't use her box.

[gastro]

My son just turned eleven and getting his braces out of phase 1 tomorrow! About a year ago we started with bottom and top expanders. We turned the top every other day for about six weeks? And the bottom once a week for the same duration (removable for eating). Then he kept those in with no turning for about four months. Top braces went on, followed by the bottom.

Very little discomfort throughout the whole thing. We always turned before bedtime. I offered ibuprofen but there was very few times DS1 felt he needed it.

[hermione]

Jun 15, 2022 19:59:14 GMT -5 minniemouse said:

hermione, my dd has a removable lower one. I was worried she would lose it but so far, so good. She has cases stashed everywhere- backpack, lunch box, dance bag, my purse, the bathroom and our kitchen.

Is this a specific thing I can buy? Like, an “expander case?”

Oh! Never mind I see them, lol.

[sdlaura]

My sister in Maryland just told me this morning that they're getting an expander with key for round 1 of her son's braces. My nephew turns 8 this month. She was quoted $2500 for this round.

[chedifuen]

My kiddo had one and it wasn't very painful for him. He had a bit of soreness when he first started wearing it but that resolved within a couple of days. We only had to turn once a week but did it right before bed. He never complained of pain when it was turned

[midwestmama]

Both my kids had one and it hurt a bit maybe the first 1-2 days, but we gave them some ibuprofen and it was ok. We also had to turn it at night, and I don't remember them complaining that it hurt. It did take maybe a few days to a week for them to start talking normally again after the expander was put in.

[hbomdiggity]

Thanks all!

FWIW, I was quoted $4300, which includes the expander with 8 braces on front and then retainers until phase 2.

I kinda want to just skip the other consult as this place gets great reviews and consult #2 is apparently known for pushing Invisalign which is not happening for a 7yo (not just for price, but way too high maintenance at this age).

[starburst604]

Oh man, DD is 7 and her dentist has mentioned she'll likely need braces and doesn't have a lot of room for the rest of her teeth to come in. Would she have flat out told us to schedule an ortho consult if she thought it was time for that? Should I go ahead and schedule one to get an idea of what's in store? I thought we had a couple of years for this!!!

[mrsGreeko]

Jun 16, 2022 14:39:46 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Oh man, DD is 7 and her dentist has mentioned she'll likely need braces and doesn't have a lot of room for the rest of her teeth to come in. Would she have flat out told us to schedule an ortho consult if she thought it was time for that? Should I go ahead and schedule one to get an idea of what's in store? I thought we had a couple of years for this!!!

Their first molars have to be all the way in to get a palate expander put in. The molars start coming in around 6-7, but my DSs weren’t in enough to put the expander on until her was over 8. I asked the dentist for an ortho rec because my DSs baby teeth had come in sideways since there was not enough room. If your DD is definitely going to need ortho work, I think it’s probably not a bad idea to start now. If her molars aren’t in all the way yet they will just have you come back every 6 months or something like that to keep checking progress and you don’t generally pay for anything until you actually start putting things in. We started when my DS was 7.5. Couldn’t put the palate expander on at that point, but was recommended to get ENT consult for tonsils and adenoids and get two baby teeth extracted in the meantime. Then he finally had his palate expander placed at 8.5. And braces put on top a few months later and then they came off before he was 10. Now we still go every 6 months while we wait for his grown up teeth to all come in so he can get a full set.

[starburst604]

Jun 16, 2022 14:48:28 GMT -5 mrsGreeko said:

Jun 16, 2022 14:39:46 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Oh man, DD is 7 and her dentist has mentioned she'll likely need braces and doesn't have a lot of room for the rest of her teeth to come in. Would she have flat out told us to schedule an ortho consult if she thought it was time for that? Should I go ahead and schedule one to get an idea of what's in store? I thought we had a couple of years for this!!!

Their first molars have to be all the way in to get a palate expander put in. The molars start coming in around 6-7, but my DSs weren’t in enough to put the expander on until her was over 8. I asked the dentist for an ortho rec because my DSs baby teeth had come in sideways since there was not enough room. If your DD is definitely going to need ortho work, I think it’s probably not a bad idea to start now. If her molars aren’t in all the way yet they will just have you come back every 6 months or something like that to keep checking progress and you don’t generally pay for anything until you actually start putting things in. We started when my DS was 7.5. Couldn’t put the palate expander on at that point, but was recommended to get ENT consult for tonsils and adenoids and get two baby teeth extracted in the meantime. Then he finally had his palate expander placed at 8.5. And braces put on top a few months later and then they came off before he was 10. Now we still go every 6 months while we wait for his grown up teeth to all come in so he can get a full set.

Thanks for that info! I'm honestly not sure about her molars - her dentist probably mentioned it but H took her instead of me last time.  I guess it can't hurt to go in for a consult and see what things look like for us. Then I'll know when it's time to beef up our HSA account! 

[sent]

This is my line of work. I did one on my own DD last year after she turned 7. I think a palate expander is one of the really good functional and preventative treatments we offer our child and pre-teen patients. I haven't done the braces on her afterwards yet and she's still walking around with a very snaggly incisor but she doesn't care.

These threads always make me think I either need to raise my fees or add a practice in a higher SES demographic.

[mrsGreeko]

Jun 16, 2022 14:56:56 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Jun 16, 2022 14:48:28 GMT -5 mrsGreeko said:

Their first molars have to be all the way in to get a palate expander put in. The molars start coming in around 6-7, but my DSs weren’t in enough to put the expander on until her was over 8. I asked the dentist for an ortho rec because my DSs baby teeth had come in sideways since there was not enough room. If your DD is definitely going to need ortho work, I think it’s probably not a bad idea to start now. If her molars aren’t in all the way yet they will just have you come back every 6 months or something like that to keep checking progress and you don’t generally pay for anything until you actually start putting things in. We started when my DS was 7.5. Couldn’t put the palate expander on at that point, but was recommended to get ENT consult for tonsils and adenoids and get two baby teeth extracted in the meantime. Then he finally had his palate expander placed at 8.5. And braces put on top a few months later and then they came off before he was 10. Now we still go every 6 months while we wait for his grown up teeth to all come in so he can get a full set.

Thanks for that info! I'm honestly not sure about her molars - her dentist probably mentioned it but H took her instead of me last time.  I guess it can't hurt to go in for a consult and see what things look like for us. Then I'll know when it's time to beef up our HSA account! 

Yeah it was good to have an idea on timing because I was able to switch my dental insurance to the fancier plan the year we knew he’d be getting them. It also got him used to going to the ortho. He’s doctor phobic and has some issues with medical settings so it was kind of like therapeutic to take him a couple times where they didn’t do anything except x-rays and look at his teeth if that makes sense. It gave him a sense of comfort and familiarity before they had to actually do anything in his mouth.

[starburst604]

Jun 16, 2022 15:18:54 GMT -5 mrsGreeko said:

Jun 16, 2022 14:56:56 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Thanks for that info! I'm honestly not sure about her molars - her dentist probably mentioned it but H took her instead of me last time.  I guess it can't hurt to go in for a consult and see what things look like for us. Then I'll know when it's time to beef up our HSA account! 

Yeah it was good to have an idea on timing because I was able to switch my dental insurance to the fancier plan the year we knew he’d be getting them. It also got him used to going to the ortho. He’s doctor phobic and has some issues with medical settings so it was kind of like therapeutic to take him a couple times where they didn’t do anything except x-rays and look at his teeth if that makes sense. It gave him a sense of comfort and familiarity before they had to actually do anything in his mouth.

Yes I think it will be helpful for her - she's not crazy about anything that the dentist has had to do outside of a regular cleaning so for the comfort level alone it will be worthwhile, and might as well do it when we don't have to work around school. I actually just hung up from making the appointment for next month. I have a feeling she's going to be weirdly excited about it because she keeps telling me "the dentist says I'm going to need braces" and she thinks braces are like a cool, big kid thing right now! 

[Mushe]

We’re getting DS’s put in soon; he just had the scan so they can manufacture the expanders. That plus braces for front 8 teeth for a first round was $2300. We’re in what I’d call a somewhat expensive suburb in California, so I’m surprised your quote! They offered either traditional or Invisalign for the same price, but I also felt that Invisalign was a non-starter given his personality.

[minzy]

I’d recommend he use a water pik to help keep his mouth clean. My daughter’s time with her expander coincided with Covid so she was masked a lot. If she wasn’t careful her breath stunk. I think summer is a good time to get it, since takes a little bit to adjust and the speech will be back to normal when school starts.

We have somehow only paid $650 for round one, which has included the expander and now a nance and could include some initial bracing if my daughter starts to feel self conscious about one of her teeth which hooks a little. We have probably been there 15 or 20 times over maybe 3 years, but we are friends with the orthodontist and his family and I think he gave us a big discount. (The last time I was there I was like “are you sure we don’t owe you more money yet?” and they said it was still phase one so no, I did not.) I think phase two will start next year and I’m not sure what that will run.

My daughter, who tends to complain a little more than I would like sometimes, adapted well to both the expander and nance so far and I usually forget all about them.

[pooh8402]

Following... We're coming up on 7th birthday. E1's upper central incisors we're not able to come in until his upper lateral incisors fell out. Now I don't think the lateral incisors will fit until his canines fall out, and so on and so forth. Child has my big old teeth.

His dentist didn't say anything about them at the March visit but the right central incisor hadn't made it down yet... I imagine the conversation will happen with the next visit.

[pooh8402]

Jun 15, 2022 18:23:31 GMT -5 mrsGreeko said:

It didn’t really bother my DS. Turning it wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought it would be. My DSs actually fell out and they were unable to replace it so he only had it for like 4 months. He had top braces for a year and now wears a retainer to keep the top teeth straight. He had a wire on the front two teeth to keep them in place, but it also fell off and the ortho opted not to replace it. His teeth look so much better. He also had 2 baby teeth pulled. He will get full braces once all his adult teeth are in.

Does your child snore or mouth breathe? Apparently these things can contribute to a narrow palate. My DS snored like a freight train and mouth breathed so noisily he could never win hide and seek. I had asked the pedi about the snoring, but they weren’t concerned. The orthodontist recommended an ENT consult because of the narrow palate though and my DS ended up getting his tonsils and adenoids removed and he stopped mouth breathing and snoring. Anyway, just figured I’d throw that out there.

Interesting... Both of my kids were/are mouth breathers/snorers. Both had/have giant tonsils. E1 got his out at age 4. E2 is getting his out in a month, he is 3. Never considered a narrow palate being associated.

[mrsGreeko]

Jun 18, 2022 8:20:07 GMT -5 pooh8402 said:

Jun 15, 2022 18:23:31 GMT -5 mrsGreeko said:

It didn’t really bother my DS. Turning it wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought it would be. My DSs actually fell out and they were unable to replace it so he only had it for like 4 months. He had top braces for a year and now wears a retainer to keep the top teeth straight. He had a wire on the front two teeth to keep them in place, but it also fell off and the ortho opted not to replace it. His teeth look so much better. He also had 2 baby teeth pulled. He will get full braces once all his adult teeth are in.

Does your child snore or mouth breathe? Apparently these things can contribute to a narrow palate. My DS snored like a freight train and mouth breathed so noisily he could never win hide and seek. I had asked the pedi about the snoring, but they weren’t concerned. The orthodontist recommended an ENT consult because of the narrow palate though and my DS ended up getting his tonsils and adenoids removed and he stopped mouth breathing and snoring. Anyway, just figured I’d throw that out there.

Interesting... Both of my kids were/are mouth breathers/snorers. Both had/have giant tonsils. E1 got his out at age 4. E2 is getting his out in a month, he is 3. Never considered a narrow palate being associated.

Apparently when you keep your mouth open most of the time because you can’t breathe through your nose well you don’t test your tongue against the palate so it becomes narrower. Resting the tongue there helps to shape it. I read this book after the ortho suggested an ENT consult. It was interesting. Jaws: The Story of a Hidden Epidemic www.amazon.com/Jaws-Hidden-Epidemic-Sandra-Kahn/dp/1503604136/ref=asc_df_1503604136/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312021238077&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5572360814546882238&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028803&hvtargid=pla-443710067886&psc=1#

Also, having interrupted sleep even without actual apnea, just snoring can exacerbate ADHD symptoms. Which my DS has also been diagnosed with. I wish the pedi would have taken the snoring more seriously when I brought it up at 2 or so. I think it’s probably better to get the tonsils/adenoids out earlier if they are going to need to come out….

The ortho also recommended “speech” therapy to teach my DS to breathe with his mouth closed after he got the tonsils out. We didn’t end up doing that because he started breathing with his mouth closed and sleeping with his mouth closed so it didn’t seem necessary.

[starlily]

DD1 (11) started ortho treatment last July. She had the quad helix palate expander, which doesn't require a daily key turn; the springs expand on their own over time. She felt some discomfort the first 2-3 days, but after that it was just the annoyance of having it in there. They removed it after about 7 months.

I had the traditional style with a key as a teen and young adult and would've much preferred this non-key version.