@ attacks on education August

[NewOrleans]

I’m sure there will be a lot with school starting, so I made a thread.

The Oklahoma State Board of Education voted this week to downgrade the accreditation of Tulsa Public Schools after a teacher reportedly complained that the school district’s training materials “shame white people.”

The complaint against Tulsa Public Schools stemmed from a 20-minute implicit bias training for teachers conducted by a third-party vendor last August. The administrative rules for H.B. 1775 extend the prohibitions in the law to teacher trainings.

www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/30/crt-oklahoma-tulsa-schools-shame-white/

[jinkies]

Our school board was hijacked by extremists last year because people don't pay attention to school board elections. They have been making headlines in a very bad way ever since.

They have been systematically attacking LGBTQ initiatives and have now passed a book banning policy that is unprecedented in PA. The language was largely copy and pasted from a Texas policy.

whyy.org/articles/central-bucks-schools-book-ban-policy/

It is such a helpless feeling. The extremist majority have refused to even acknowledge when the Democrat board members speak. The superintendent is on board and sends long, rambling and bizarre emails to the entire district supporting the school board initiatives and defending things like his order for all pride flags in any form to be removed from schools and classrooms.

This is one of the largest districts in Pennsylvania, in the suburbs of Philadelphia.

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 2, 2022 10:21:38 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I’m sure there will be a lot with school starting, so I made a thread.

The Oklahoma State Board of Education voted this week to downgrade the accreditation of Tulsa Public Schools after a teacher reportedly complained that the school district’s training materials “shame white people.”

The complaint against Tulsa Public Schools stemmed from a 20-minute implicit bias training for teachers conducted by a third-party vendor last August. The administrative rules for H.B. 1775 extend the prohibitions in the law to teacher trainings.

www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/30/crt-oklahoma-tulsa-schools-shame-white/

Here is some completely unsurprising information about this teacher from a few months ago: www.publicradiotulsa.org/local-regional/2022-05-12/tulsa-public-schools-investigating-teacher-for-alleged-classroom-proselytizing

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 2, 2022 10:47:36 GMT -5 jinkies said:

Our school board was hijacked by extremists last year because people don't pay attention to school board elections. They have been making headlines in a very bad way ever since.

They have been systematically attacking LGBTQ initiatives and have now passed a book banning policy that is unprecedented in PA. The language was largely copy and pasted from a Texas policy.

whyy.org/articles/central-bucks-schools-book-ban-policy/

It is such a helpless feeling. The extremist majority have refused to even acknowledge when the Democrat board members speak. The superintendent is on board and sends long, rambling and bizarre emails to the entire district supporting the school board initiatives and defending things like his order for all pride flags in any form to be removed from schools and classrooms.

This is one of the largest districts in Pennsylvania, in the suburbs of Philadelphia.

I don't know what's going on with Bucks County. Actually, I do - I don't live in PA, but Bucks County is becoming a popular place for people in and around NYC to flee from our liberalism, since they don't have to trek too far to find a more affordable, MAGA-friendly area. 

Anyway, here is another school district in Bucks County that's going a lot further than Central Bucks re: free speech.

whyy.org/articles/pennridge-policy-student-expression-aclu/

[jinkies]

Aug 2, 2022 11:21:28 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 2, 2022 10:47:36 GMT -5 jinkies said:

Our school board was hijacked by extremists last year because people don't pay attention to school board elections. They have been making headlines in a very bad way ever since.

They have been systematically attacking LGBTQ initiatives and have now passed a book banning policy that is unprecedented in PA. The language was largely copy and pasted from a Texas policy.

whyy.org/articles/central-bucks-schools-book-ban-policy/

It is such a helpless feeling. The extremist majority have refused to even acknowledge when the Democrat board members speak. The superintendent is on board and sends long, rambling and bizarre emails to the entire district supporting the school board initiatives and defending things like his order for all pride flags in any form to be removed from schools and classrooms.

This is one of the largest districts in Pennsylvania, in the suburbs of Philadelphia.

I don't know what's going on with Bucks County. Actually, I do - I don't live in PA, but Bucks County is becoming a popular place for people in and around NYC to flee from our liberalism, since they don't have to trek too far to find a more affordable, MAGA-friendly area. 

Anyway, here is another school district in Bucks County that's going a lot further than Central Bucks re: free speech.

whyy.org/articles/pennridge-policy-student-expression-aclu/

Yup, Pennridge is just the next district over, and they are doubling down. 

I grew up in this area, and historically upper Bucks (where Pennridge is) has been more rural and conservative than the Central Bucks area so I guess it's unsurprising that they would feel the need to be even more extreme than us.

It's crazy to me that Bucks County could help carry the state for Biden in 2020 and by 2022 we are overrun with extremists. I'm not a political expert, but if Bucks didn't go for Biden, I'm not sure that the state would have. In 2020, as it turned out, Biden could have won without PA. But in 2024, who knows? It scares me.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 2, 2022 11:14:00 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 2, 2022 10:21:38 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I’m sure there will be a lot with school starting, so I made a

Here is some completely unsurprising information about this teacher from a few months ago: www.publicradiotulsa.org/local-regional/2022-05-12/tulsa-public-schools-investigating-teacher-for-alleged-classroom-proselytizing

Oh.

[Scout'sHonor]

My niece is Tulsa adjacent and despite growing up there, pretty liberal. Her husband joined their school board to help offset some of this fuckery.

I'm reading Jesus and John Wayne, which really ties together how a lot of the charter school bs gained momentum. This is just east of me, but it's happening in our county as well: How Hillsdale College-affiliated charter schools spread

[pugz]

Scout'sHonor that book is on my bookshelf and I need to read it. As a former evangelical it all hits close to home.


A neighboring district wants to ban the use of using a student's chosen pronouns.

We have a lunatic on our school board who gets in fights at EVERY meeting because he's so mad that public comments are no longer recorded or live streamed. They moved them to the hour before the meeting (which is recorded and live streamed). He flat out said he never would have been elected last year if it weren't for his ability to "appeal to voters" via the public comments. He is the main reason they changed the policy! Such a dumbfuck.

[Jalapeñomel]

Arizona recently removed the requirement for teachers to have a Bachelor’s degree before going into the classroom.

www.k12dive.com/news/arizona-law-removes-bachelors-degree-requirement-for-teachers/627128/

[Deleted]

Aug 2, 2022 12:43:31 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Arizona recently removed the requirement for teachers to have a Bachelor’s degree before going into the classroom.

www.k12dive.com/news/arizona-law-removes-bachelors-degree-requirement-for-teachers/627128/

Florida has done the same, allowing veterans without Bachelor’s Degrees to teach. Original reports included spouses of veterans, though it seems like that was erroneous.

Honestly, there are SO many teaching vacancies in FL, I can understand feeling the need to do “something”…::I just don’t think this is the solution. But I don’t have any better ideas.*

* Obviously I know how to fix the problem long-term..::but I don’t know how districts are going to fill hundreds of vacancies by next week.

[Jalapeñomel]

Aug 2, 2022 12:59:36 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Aug 2, 2022 12:43:31 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Arizona recently removed the requirement for teachers to have a Bachelor’s degree before going into the classroom.

www.k12dive.com/news/arizona-law-removes-bachelors-degree-requirement-for-teachers/627128/

Florida has done the same, allowing veterans without Bachelor’s Degrees to teach. Original reports included spouses of veterans, though it seems like that was erroneous.

Honestly, there are SO many teaching vacancies in FL, I can understand feeling the need to do “something”…::I just don’t think this is the solution. But I don’t have any better ideas.*

* Obviously I know how to fix the problem long-term..::but I don’t know how districts are going to fill hundreds of vacancies by next week.

I follow a bunch of teachers who are pretty doom and gloom about this….they’re saying what will happen is class sizes will become huge, students will do almost all work virtually in a auditorium type setting and the need for teachers will pretty much disappear (since the people In the room will just be babysitters).

[erbear]

Aug 2, 2022 10:47:36 GMT -5 jinkies said:

Our school board was hijacked by extremists last year because people don't pay attention to school board elections. They have been making headlines in a very bad way ever since.

They have been systematically attacking LGBTQ initiatives and have now passed a book banning policy that is unprecedented in PA. The language was largely copy and pasted from a Texas policy.

whyy.org/articles/central-bucks-schools-book-ban-policy/

It is such a helpless feeling. The extremist majority have refused to even acknowledge when the Democrat board members speak. The superintendent is on board and sends long, rambling and bizarre emails to the entire district supporting the school board initiatives and defending things like his order for all pride flags in any form to be removed from schools and classrooms.

This is one of the largest districts in Pennsylvania, in the suburbs of Philadelphia.

your district is a huge mess. My friends who have kids there are struggling with what to do now

[wawa]

Aug 2, 2022 12:59:36 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Aug 2, 2022 12:43:31 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Arizona recently removed the requirement for teachers to have a Bachelor’s degree before going into the classroom.

www.k12dive.com/news/arizona-law-removes-bachelors-degree-requirement-for-teachers/627128/

Florida has done the same, allowing veterans without Bachelor’s Degrees to teach. Original reports included spouses of veterans, though it seems like that was erroneous.

Honestly, there are SO many teaching vacancies in FL, I can understand feeling the need to do “something”…::I just don’t think this is the solution. But I don’t have any better ideas.*

* Obviously I know how to fix the problem long-term..::but I don’t know how districts are going to fill hundreds of vacancies by next week.

I don't know enough about it to know if this makes sense, but as an outside observer if schools are in a position where they just literally don't even have enough warm bodies to supervise the children, let alone teach them, then it seems like they need to create some sort of emergency position that makes it clear that these people are NOT really teaching. Like, staff up however it takes to maintain safety and appropriate supervision, but those people shouldn't be licensed as teachers without something a lot closer to the appropriate training.   

If you're bringing them on as babysitters, then call it that.  Long term subs for those with *some* appropriate experience and classroom aides for those who don't.  
But then also actually fix your shit so people are willing to work as teachers there and you stop burning them out so quickly. But that's apparently too much to ask.

[erbear]

Aug 2, 2022 12:59:36 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Aug 2, 2022 12:43:31 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Arizona recently removed the requirement for teachers to have a Bachelor’s degree before going into the classroom.

www.k12dive.com/news/arizona-law-removes-bachelors-degree-requirement-for-teachers/627128/

Florida has done the same, allowing veterans without Bachelor’s Degrees to teach. Original reports included spouses of veterans, though it seems like that was erroneous.

Honestly, there are SO many teaching vacancies in FL, I can understand feeling the need to do “something”…::I just don’t think this is the solution. But I don’t have any better ideas.*

* Obviously I know how to fix the problem long-term..::but I don’t know how districts are going to fill hundreds of vacancies by next week.

Oooh ooh. I know!!!

Pay teachers what they’re worth. Stop treating us like we are incompetent morons. Keep parents out of our classrooms. It cannot be a surprise to anyone that there are teachers leaving in droves. This job sucks right now, and I’ve always said that I have the best job in the world. I don’t think lowering the standards to be a teacher is the answer (they are already appallingly low standards…). You want good teachers? And lots of them? Make the job something people actually want to do. Make it a competitive hire.

[wawa]

Curious how teachers feel about this - but like, I'm a licensed professional. I know my licensing process is similar to a teachers (state based, testing and educational and supervised work requirements, CE requirements, etc) And it's annoying and there's somebullshity parts of it - but all in all I think it would be a TERRIBLE thing for the profession (and...society?) long term to start watering that down because of a labor shortage.

[Velar Fricative]

This is all part of the GOP war on public education. Especially now that there is such a clear partisan divide re: educational attainment and beliefs about the importance of public education, what should be taught in schools, etc. If you can only hire more babysitters in public schools...oh well, not their problem. Better for those kids to not be indoctrinated by science, history, literature or the arts by credentialed teachers anyway.

[lilac05]

pugz, I love that new public comment portion of the meeting. It’s a chance for the community to voice concerns to the board, not make a scene for the whole community. Is the comment time open for all public to attend in person, just not watch online? (Feel free to PM me with more info to keep from further side-tracking.) I am going to mention this to our board President, but would like more info first.

[wawa]

Aug 2, 2022 14:10:01 GMT -5 erbear said:

Aug 2, 2022 12:59:36 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Florida has done the same, allowing veterans without Bachelor’s Degrees to teach. Original reports included spouses of veterans, though it seems like that was erroneous.

Honestly, there are SO many teaching vacancies in FL, I can understand feeling the need to do “something”…::I just don’t think this is the solution. But I don’t have any better ideas.*

* Obviously I know how to fix the problem long-term..::but I don’t know how districts are going to fill hundreds of vacancies by next week.

Oooh ooh. I know!!!

Pay teachers what they’re worth. Stop treating us like we are incompetent morons. Keep parents out of our classrooms. It cannot be a surprise to anyone that there are teachers leaving in droves. This job sucks right now, and I’ve always said that I have the best job in the world. I don’t think lowering the standards to be a teacher is the answer (they are already appallingly low standards…). You want good teachers? And lots of them? Make the job something people actually want to do. Make it a competitive hire.

Is there anything I can read about what teachers are actually worth?  Like what is the pay gap for teachers vs. comparable professions?  And I know it varies a lot around the country, but I've wondered what this mean.  Are the higher paid states doing ok in terms of paying something reasonable, or are we still low? 

(eta I'm aware I can google this.  But I'm assuming that your unions maybe have studies they cite or there's some go-to resource for this info)
 

[abs]

Aug 2, 2022 14:10:01 GMT -5 erbear said:

Aug 2, 2022 12:59:36 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Florida has done the same, allowing veterans without Bachelor’s Degrees to teach. Original reports included spouses of veterans, though it seems like that was erroneous.

Honestly, there are SO many teaching vacancies in FL, I can understand feeling the need to do “something”…::I just don’t think this is the solution. But I don’t have any better ideas.*

* Obviously I know how to fix the problem long-term..::but I don’t know how districts are going to fill hundreds of vacancies by next week.

Oooh ooh. I know!!!

Pay teachers what they’re worth. Stop treating us like we are incompetent morons. Keep parents out of our classrooms. It cannot be a surprise to anyone that there are teachers leaving in droves. This job sucks right now, and I’ve always said that I have the best job in the world. I don’t think lowering the standards to be a teacher is the answer (they are already appallingly low standards…). You want good teachers? And lots of them? Make the job something people actually want to do. Make it a competitive hire.

And perhaps maybe stop putting so much emphasis on data that comes from one state test. I know so many teachers that left this year because they felt like they and their students were little more than nameless data points.

[RoxMonster]

I am no longer a teacher as of Feb. but I was one for 13.5 years. In general, in many places, the issues stem from the school board. In my district (and many others), the union negotiated with the board for pay, benefits, raises, etc. And the board would barely budge on anything. Now, I know in some districts, they have a very strong union that would say, 'Well this is what we want. Otherwise, we strike." But many districts (including mine) would not do that. Too many folks could not go without pay while on strike, so a lot of times, you end up having to settle for the shit the board gives you.

A lot of these racist, anti-LGBT+ etc policies either originate from the school board or get put into policy BY the board.

I know board members are elected officials, so maybe that means more people on the right side of things need to run for school board? (Of course, they have to win also). Honestly, I think the whole public education system could be overhauled on a federal scale, but for now, when I think of a lot of the issues I had as a teacher and that I hear from current teachers, they are things that stem from school board policies - things like lack of pay, lack of paid planning time, large class sizes, and on and on.

[erbear]

Aug 2, 2022 15:43:55 GMT -5 wawa said:

Aug 2, 2022 14:10:01 GMT -5 erbear said:

Oooh ooh. I know!!!

Pay teachers what they’re worth. Stop treating us like we are incompetent morons. Keep parents out of our classrooms. It cannot be a surprise to anyone that there are teachers leaving in droves. This job sucks right now, and I’ve always said that I have the best job in the world. I don’t think lowering the standards to be a teacher is the answer (they are already appallingly low standards…). You want good teachers? And lots of them? Make the job something people actually want to do. Make it a competitive hire.

Is there anything I can read about what teachers are actually worth?  Like what is the pay gap for teachers vs. comparable professions?  And I know it varies a lot around the country, but I've wondered what this mean.  Are the higher paid states doing ok in terms of paying something reasonable, or are we still low? 

(eta I'm aware I can google this.  But I'm assuming that your unions maybe have studies they cite or there's some go-to resource for this info)
 

I have 2 masters degrees and 22 years of teaching experience, and I make less than double what I made when I started teaching in 2000. If I wasn’t married to someone who had a well paying job, I could not afford my mortgage.

There seems to be a fairly prevalent thought process that teachers don’t work “full time” (false — I work a 9-10 hour day + some time in the evenings and weekends) or we have “three months off” (again, most teachers I know work in the summer bc we aren’t paid over the summer). Many young teachers I know work a second job on weekends just to pay their bills. That is problematic in a job that society deems (at least in words) as “essential”.

I’m about to get on a plane, which is probably good because I’m not really in the mood to argue my worth as a professional

[wawa]

Aug 2, 2022 17:37:02 GMT -5 erbear said:

Aug 2, 2022 15:43:55 GMT -5 wawa said:

Is there anything I can read about what teachers are actually worth?  Like what is the pay gap for teachers vs. comparable professions?  And I know it varies a lot around the country, but I've wondered what this mean.  Are the higher paid states doing ok in terms of paying something reasonable, or are we still low? 

(eta I'm aware I can google this.  But I'm assuming that your unions maybe have studies they cite or there's some go-to resource for this info)
 

I have 2 masters degrees and 22 years of teaching experience, and I make less than double what I made when I started teaching in 2000. If I wasn’t married to someone who had a well paying job, I could not afford my mortgage.

There seems to be a fairly prevalent thought process that teachers don’t work “full time” (false — I work a 9-10 hour day + some time in the evenings and weekends) or we have “three months off” (again, most teachers I know work in the summer bc we aren’t paid over the summer). Many young teachers I know work a second job on weekends just to pay their bills. That is problematic in a job that society deems (at least in words) as “essential”.

I’m about to get on a plane, which is probably good because I’m not really in the mood to argue my worth as a professional

Dude... I understand you being defensive on this topic but I was in no way questioning your worth. I was literally just wondering if this has been quantified. Are we like 15% low? 25% 40%? How bad is alabama compared to Connecticut? I like numbers, I was wondering if there was some citable number we're aiming for.

[Jalapeñomel]

Aug 2, 2022 15:43:55 GMT -5 wawa said:

Aug 2, 2022 14:10:01 GMT -5 erbear said:

Oooh ooh. I know!!!

Pay teachers what they’re worth. Stop treating us like we are incompetent morons. Keep parents out of our classrooms. It cannot be a surprise to anyone that there are teachers leaving in droves. This job sucks right now, and I’ve always said that I have the best job in the world. I don’t think lowering the standards to be a teacher is the answer (they are already appallingly low standards…). You want good teachers? And lots of them? Make the job something people actually want to do. Make it a competitive hire.

Is there anything I can read about what teachers are actually worth?  Like what is the pay gap for teachers vs. comparable professions?  And I know it varies a lot around the country, but I've wondered what this mean.  Are the higher paid states doing ok in terms of paying something reasonable, or are we still low? 

(eta I'm aware I can google this.  But I'm assuming that your unions maybe have studies they cite or there's some go-to resource for this info)
 

I can tell you that there are places that pay well. Many of those places have strong unions, which makes a HUGE difference. But also in VHCOL/HCOL, which has its own challenges for attracting teachers.

NY, for example, has several incentive programs for people who teach in high needs fields who are being snatched away by industry (like chemistry) for higher pay. So few people want to teach the hard sciences, and they often hire teachers who are certified in biology or psychology and then ask them to get a second cert in physics or chemistry, which often leads to inauthentic science experiences and misconceptions (by really no fault of their own).


However, we’re still beholden by the local school district, who are always complaining about how high their taxes are and that’s why they should be able to tel the school and teachers what can and should be taught. And administration gives in to these demands more often than not. It also allows students to be disrespectful and somewhat out of control because discipline is low due to admin being afraid of retaliation from parents .

Sorry, edited with link: www.uft.org/your-rights/salary/doe-and-city-salary-schedules/teachers-salary-schedule-2018-2021

worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/teacher-pay-by-state

[Velar Fricative]

I thought this had some interesting data because it compares teaching salaries by state to that state’s average salary. It’s not a perfect system for comparison because given teaching requirements, the best comparisons would probably be between teaching professions and those that also require advanced degrees and certifications. But what it does tell me is that a bunch of states are paying teachers less than the average state salary and that’s just ridiculous.

www.business.org/hr/workforce-management/best-us-states-for-teachers/

[Poeticxpassion]

has anyone seen the TikTok’s with parents bitching about school supply lists? I want to scream when they say, “I only want to buy supplies that are used by my child and why do they need 6 boxes of crayons.”

Teachers have enough to deal with! Just buy the supplies they ask for.

[wawa]

Answering my own question, sounds like the usual number cited is 20% from this study that is based on data through 2019. It has really interesting charts on wage gap by state. I have to imagine this has only gotten worse in the past 3 years. The info in here on the changes over time is REALLY interesting in a "fuck you boomer" way.

www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-dips-but-persists-in-2019-public-school-teachers-earn-about-20-less-in-weekly-wages-than-nonteacher-college-graduates/#:~:text=The%20estimated%2019.2%25%20teacher%20weekly,that%20teachers%20earned%20in%201979.

[tacokick]

Aug 2, 2022 17:37:02 GMT -5 erbear said:

Aug 2, 2022 15:43:55 GMT -5 wawa said:

Is there anything I can read about what teachers are actually worth?  Like what is the pay gap for teachers vs. comparable professions?  And I know it varies a lot around the country, but I've wondered what this mean.  Are the higher paid states doing ok in terms of paying something reasonable, or are we still low? 

(eta I'm aware I can google this.  But I'm assuming that your unions maybe have studies they cite or there's some go-to resource for this info)
 

I have 2 masters degrees and 22 years of teaching experience, and I make less than double what I made when I started teaching in 2000. If I wasn’t married to someone who had a well paying job, I could not afford my mortgage.

There seems to be a fairly prevalent thought process that teachers don’t work “full time” (false — I work a 9-10 hour day + some time in the evenings and weekends) or we have “three months off” (again, most teachers I know work in the summer bc we aren’t paid over the summer). Many young teachers I know work a second job on weekends just to pay their bills. That is problematic in a job that society deems (at least in words) as “essential”.

I’m about to get on a plane, which is probably good because I’m not really in the mood to argue my worth as a professional

To add to this—another part of the issue is that in order to maintain a teaching certificate in most areas you have to do regular continuing education. Which is totally understandable but a huge out of pocket expense—enrolling in graduate school every few years is not cheap. A lot of people end up with multiple masters just to keep their certification current. It’s a big money and time suck that doesn’t result in more pay.

[Jalapeñomel]

Aug 2, 2022 18:33:45 GMT -5 wawa said:

Answering my own question, sounds like the usual number cited is 20% from this study that is based on data through 2019. It has really interesting charts on wage gap by state. I have to imagine this has only gotten worse in the past 3 years. The info in here on the changes over time is REALLY interesting in a "fuck you boomer" way.

www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-dips-but-persists-in-2019-public-school-teachers-earn-about-20-less-in-weekly-wages-than-nonteacher-college-graduates/#:~:text=The%20estimated%2019.2%25%20teacher%20weekly,that%20teachers%20earned%20in%201979.

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[UMaineTeach]

Aug 2, 2022 18:33:45 GMT -5 wawa said:

Answering my own question, sounds like the usual number cited is 20% from this study that is based on data through 2019. It has really interesting charts on wage gap by state. I have to imagine this has only gotten worse in the past 3 years. The info in here on the changes over time is REALLY interesting in a "fuck you boomer" way.

www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-dips-but-persists-in-2019-public-school-teachers-earn-about-20-less-in-weekly-wages-than-nonteacher-college-graduates/#:~:text=The%20estimated%2019.2%25%20teacher%20weekly,that%20teachers%20earned%20in%201979.

Here’s the union’s information for 2021-2022, it has some quick state by state pop up graphics. (But of course unions are not bias free organizations, but they cite EPI 2020 data for some points)

www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank

Alabama 75¢ on the dollar
Connecticut 87¢ on the dollar

[cherryvalance]

Aug 2, 2022 15:43:55 GMT -5 wawa said:

Aug 2, 2022 14:10:01 GMT -5 erbear said:

Oooh ooh. I know!!!

Pay teachers what they’re worth. Stop treating us like we are incompetent morons. Keep parents out of our classrooms. It cannot be a surprise to anyone that there are teachers leaving in droves. This job sucks right now, and I’ve always said that I have the best job in the world. I don’t think lowering the standards to be a teacher is the answer (they are already appallingly low standards…). You want good teachers? And lots of them? Make the job something people actually want to do. Make it a competitive hire.

Is there anything I can read about what teachers are actually worth?  Like what is the pay gap for teachers vs. comparable professions?  And I know it varies a lot around the country, but I've wondered what this mean.  Are the higher paid states doing ok in terms of paying something reasonable, or are we still low? 

(eta I'm aware I can google this.  But I'm assuming that your unions maybe have studies they cite or there's some go-to resource for this info)
 

I see that you've found some sources already, but one thing that makes comparisons difficult in the highest paid states is our benefits package.

Now I can only speak to NJ, but I could imagine similar issues are looming in other higher paid states. Our pensions are supposed to be deferred compensation. However, we're being required to contribute more and more to our pensions (due to the state constantly raiding the pension system to pay for other stuff) and health benefits (the highest salaried teachers are usually paying about 35% of the premium for their health insurance).

So what ends up happening is most of us have been frozen financially for the past 8-10 years. As our salaries increase on paper, we're usually walking backwards or staying frozen due to increased contributions.

That's where you'll see a lot of pushback against teachers in highly paid states. It's very obvious that, say, North Carolina pay is shit. It's less obvious when you see a teacher in NNJ is being paid $100K, but still has to contend with moving backwards in pay, no COL increase, and dealing with HCOL in general. It's why I make $80K but can't afford to even rent closer to my job; I have an hour long commute.

What makes it even more dire is that now districts are RIFing non-tenured staff as regular practice. Hiring districts do not need to recognize years of service. So teachers are constantly starting at step 1 or 2 (so like $50K), being pushed into the worst benefits plan, with no hope of climbing the salary guide (plus no real, long-term development of their teaching practice). They're setting us up to be one of those low-paid states in 15-25 years as tenured teachers start retiring.

Now, I'm not pretending I'm impoverished, by any means. But it's easy to think, wow, they make good money in these states and they get great benefits, when we've had a reduction in benefits and compared to similarly educated/credentialed professions, it's not great.

Sorry for the novel lol.