Looming railroad strike

[pixy0stix]

Everything you need to know about the looming railroad strike

wapo.st/3xnZi6q

[InBetweenDays]

Thanks for this. I was completely oblivious to the possibility of this strike until my sister told me the other day. My parents are scheduled to take Amtrak cross country (BOS to SEA) soon so we'll wait to see what happens.

[rubytue]

Sept 14, 2022 14:43:32 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Thanks for this. I was completely oblivious to the possibility of this strike until my sister told me the other day. My parents are scheduled to take Amtrak cross country (BOS to SEA) soon so we'll wait to see what happens.

How soon? I just saw they were canceling all long distance service starting Thursday. (Saw in a tweet and now can’t find it again to cite)

edit, it was a WP, which links to the same article, that says: Amtrak said it is canceling all of its long-distance trains starting Thursday.
www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/09/14/amtrak-passenger-rail-strike

[Patsy Baloney]

This has me really nervous, but I want the unions to break these fuckers on the time off/on-call bullshit policies.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 14, 2022 15:09:27 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

This has me really nervous, but I want the unions to break these fuckers on the time off/on-call bullshit policies.

I haven’t been that clued into to the whole thing but my friend whose husband is a railroad engineer (drives the trains) said one of the union’s key demands is UNPAID sick leave and my head about exploded off my body.

Obviously the strike and shutdowns sucks but I hope they nail those fuckers to the wall. For shame.

[mcsangel2]

I am incredibly nervous about this, with the supply chain issues we are still dealing with.

But also I hope they stick it to The Man.

[InBetweenDays]

Sept 14, 2022 14:54:31 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Sept 14, 2022 14:43:32 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Thanks for this. I was completely oblivious to the possibility of this strike until my sister told me the other day. My parents are scheduled to take Amtrak cross country (BOS to SEA) soon so we'll wait to see what happens.

How soon? I just saw they were canceling all long distance service starting Thursday. (Saw in a tweet and now can’t find it again to cite)

edit, it was a WP, which links to the same article, that says: Amtrak said it is canceling all of its long-distance trains starting Thursday.
www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/09/14/amtrak-passenger-rail-strike

They were scheduled for next Tuesday. I just texted my dad and he said they are starting to look at flights. We feel fortunate that they are in a position to pivot pretty easily.

[dancelnow]

I strongly support blissful days of no train horns behind my house, but damn their demands seem so basic. I’m not surprised though because railroads are above the (state/local) laws. Like zero penalties for blocking the only road accessing the only hospital in the parish/county or fire station for long periods.

[imimahoney]

Just saw a statement from the WH about a tentative agreement reached overnight.

[neverfstop]

I'm curious about the terms reached...no details yet.

PER CNN

Biden described the deal as "also a victory for railway companies who will be able to retain and recruit more workers for an industry that will continue to be part of the backbone of the American economy for decades to come."
It is an important victory for Biden, who faced nothing but bad choices if a deal had not been reached. Backing Congressional action sought by the business community to impose a contract on workers would have angered his supporters among the unions. Letting the work stoppage play out risked massive economic consequences just ahead of the midterm elections.

[SusanBAnthony]

I'm curious about the details about the points system. It sounds draconian as described in articles, but it can also be reasonable and fair... The devil is in the details.

Probably doesn't matter at this point! I'm glad they reached a deal and I hope everyone feels good about it.

[livinitup]

“The railroads are the backbone of America”

That means the WORKERS of the railroad are the backbone of the economy.

Can’t we just give the WORKERS what they need to work and live?

[mysteriouswife]

I can confirm there is a deal. We have not received word on what that is. I do know we are rerouting containers and things are going to be slow the next week or so on rail. If I get more information I will update

[Patsy Baloney]

Sept 15, 2022 7:33:40 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

I'm curious about the details about the points system. It sounds draconian as described in articles, but it can also be reasonable and fair... The devil is in the details.

Probably doesn't matter at this point! I'm glad they reached a deal and I hope everyone feels good about it.

Nah, you should actually just be able to take time off when you need to.

[seeyalater52]

Man, I know the bar is on the floor but one paid sick day and a system for other scheduled non-paid days off seems just… pathetic.

I’m far from an expert and my only real world insight into this comes from my friend who deals with it in her family because her husband’s schedule is absolutely unworkable and crushing. It has gotten a million times worse during the pandemic because of people being out constantly for illness (and the work environment is not very covid safe, most coworkers aren’t masking or taking any precautions and it’s gotten worse since the mask mandate on transit was dropped.)

@@@
She essentially had to quit her job so that someone could be home with their young child because his schedule changes so frequently and so absurdly last minute that daycare was unworkable. He has had covid 3x in the last 1.5 years so he is totally out of any sort of time off so he’s working constantly with no breaks and the federally required waiting periods and such are often done “on the job but not working” so that he can be transported to where he needs to be for his next shift. It is unsafe. I know the argument is that these are well paid positions and the actual pay is pretty generous but it isn’t enough to support the single income household his work schedule demands, and it doesn’t compensate for the poor/nonexistent leave policies and how rail workers are exempt from a lot of state and federal laws around leave and sick time.

This article rings really true about the way the points system functions for folks who are curious:
www.inlander.com/spokane/some-bnsf-workers-say-a-kafkaesque-scheduling-system-has-turned-railroad-work-into-a-dangerous-nightmare/Content?oid=23673543

[mysteriouswife]

seeyalater52 that is spot on. The conditions in logistics for the frontline is not sane. Truckers are required breaks. Most of the time those are in their rigs on the side of a road. Some trucks don’t have adequate sleeping arrangements or areas for a comfortable break. It has only gotten worse in the last few years.

I sit at my desk pushing paper and feel overwhelmed. I cannot imagine the stress on those who have the manual labor jobs in logistics. Knowing first hand how hard of a job it was prior to 2020 my heart hurts for them. There were times my dept was working 60+ hours a week. My job is over all safe in the grand scheme. Lifting and heavy machinery jobs should not be expected to work under these conditions

[karinothing]

I don't understand why they didn't have better benefits before this. I know that sounds ridiculous but the first railroad workers union was created in 1863. They have been fighting for benefits since then. Is this really the first time they have gotten an increase in sick days? Did they use to have better benefits and then things changed or have they always been bad?

I guess in my head I thought they had a strong union and therefore had decent benefits! I had no idea it was so bad.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 15, 2022 8:49:11 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't understand why they didn't have better benefits before this. I know that sounds ridiculous but the first railroad workers union was created in 1863. They have been fighting for benefits since then. Is this really the first time they have gotten an increase in sick days? Did they use to have better benefits and then things changed or have they always been bad?

I guess in my head I thought they had a strong union and therefore had decent benefits! I had no idea it was so bad.

Again, with the caveat that I don’t have first hand experience, it seems to me that part of the problem is that the unions have stopped being effective for many of the less senior workers. Union leadership represents an old guard earning a lot more money and with grandfathered benefits that the majority of workers don’t currently have, or are protected by seniority policies that are absolutely punishing for workers with less than 10+ years on the job. It also makes it incredibly hard to attract new workers because it takes a very long time to catch up in seniority and it isn’t like there are tons of employment options with these specialized skill sets so there isn’t a lot of employer competition (and usually you’re worse off starting with the least seniority somewhere else.)

Benefits have been very stagnant but the earning power of the salaries paid has decreased substantially and like most industries there has been a shift away from pensions for newer workers and increased employee cost sharing for health benefits etc. These used to be jobs for single-household earning men that could support a family and the inconvenience of the scheduling and obviously that is less and less reasonable/feasible in today’s world.

Railway workers are also exempt from tons of local and federal laws governing things like health and leave benefits so even if they live and work local to where workers have better protections they don’t get most of them.

Y’all know I’m a huge union supporter generally and I hope this begins a shift in the way these unions operate but this is definitely a situation where the union isn’t doing what it needs to be for the workers it claims to represent. (To be clear I also don’t think the union makes things worse here, it is just a pretty neutral actor overall.)

[pixy0stix]

My BIL has worked for a small railroad for quite a while, and the stories he has would turn your hair white. They really, up to this point, had no representation, and as seeya said they are exempt from most of the federal and state labor regulations. Basically the companies could do whatever they wanted with no recourse.

My previous job, I would have to work with some of the bigger railroad companies, and in short they thought their shit didn't stink and they could do whatever they wanted in regards to disruptions, etc. And they could. It's just a beast. They have such a stranglehold on everything that I'm actually surprised the unions were able to get what they did.

[livinitup]

Sept 15, 2022 8:49:11 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't understand why they didn't have better benefits before this. I know that sounds ridiculous but the first railroad workers union was created in 1863. They have been fighting for benefits since then. Is this really the first time they have gotten an increase in sick days? Did they use to have better benefits and then things changed or have they always been bad?

I guess in my head I thought they had a strong union and therefore had decent benefits! I had no idea it was so bad.

Because the overseeing courts have deemed benefits as out of the scope of union negotiations. So, the union can negotiate for salary packages but have absolutely no leverage to negotiate for sick leave. So, to no one’s surprise, they have no sick leave benefits.

[karinothing]

Sept 15, 2022 9:33:21 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Sept 15, 2022 8:49:11 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't understand why they didn't have better benefits before this. I know that sounds ridiculous but the first railroad workers union was created in 1863. They have been fighting for benefits since then. Is this really the first time they have gotten an increase in sick days? Did they use to have better benefits and then things changed or have they always been bad?

I guess in my head I thought they had a strong union and therefore had decent benefits! I had no idea it was so bad.

Because the overseeing courts have deemed benefits as out of the scope of union negotiations. So, the union can negotiate for salary packages but have absolutely no leverage to negotiate for sick leave. So, to no one’s surprise, they have no sick leave benefits.

Oh that is fascinating. I had no idea. Thank you for sharing. Sounds kind of insane though since that is like the other half of what unions bargain for! 

[notreal]

All of these strikes recently, it's almost as if capitalism isn't working.

[Patsy Baloney]

Sept 15, 2022 10:10:59 GMT -5 notreal said:

All of these strikes recently, it's almost as if capitalism isn't working.

Rub some more capitalism on it, it’ll be fine!

[SusanBAnthony]

Sept 15, 2022 8:36:37 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Sept 15, 2022 7:33:40 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

I'm curious about the details about the points system. It sounds draconian as described in articles, but it can also be reasonable and fair... The devil is in the details.

Probably doesn't matter at this point! I'm glad they reached a deal and I hope everyone feels good about it.

Nah, you should actually just be able to take time off when you need to.

What is even the point of this board. There is no discussion. Jesus Christ I know you all hate me but it's a little ridiculous.

It's easy to say that but welcome to the real world. Do you want your medication to arrive to a pharmacy on time? Do you want the grocery store to have the food you want?

These are shit ton of jobs that like it or not, actually need people to reliably show up for work. That's why the devil is in the details. If you get 25 pts a year and leaving early for a doctor appointment is 1 point and missing a whole day for a funeral is 2 I just do not see how that is unreasonable. If you need to miss more time than that unplanned and not including medical/FML than maybe this isn't the job for you. If that opinion is too much for you than I give up.

[seeyalater52]

Sept 15, 2022 17:14:00 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Sept 15, 2022 8:36:37 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Nah, you should actually just be able to take time off when you need to.

What is even the point of this board. There is no discussion. Jesus Christ I know you all hate me but it's a little ridiculous.

It's easy to say that but welcome to the real world. Do you want your medication to arrive to a pharmacy on time? Do you want the grocery store to have the food you want?

These are shit ton of jobs that like it or not, actually need people to reliably show up for work. That's why the devil is in the details. If you get 25 pts a year and leaving early for a doctor appointment is 1 point and missing a whole day for a funeral is 2 I just do not see how that is unreasonable. If you need to miss more time than that unplanned and not including medical/FML than maybe this isn't the job for you. If that opinion is too much for you than I give up.

The “real world” is that some people - and not you, to be clear - should accept shitty jobs with absolutely no reasonable workplace protections that endanger not only their own health and safety but those of others?

Mmmk. This is not the hot take you think it is. I do indeed want goods to be delivered on time, but I do not accept that the only way to accomplish that shared goal is to exploit a whole class of workers rather than the myriad other options available. Pretending there is no option besides the current shitshow is a huge part of the problem. This is the same argument that has been used to argue against bettering workplace conditions and benefits for decades (centuries?) and it’s really boring.

[Patsy Baloney]

Sept 15, 2022 17:14:00 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Sept 15, 2022 8:36:37 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Nah, you should actually just be able to take time off when you need to.

What is even the point of this board. There is no discussion. Jesus Christ I know you all hate me but it's a little ridiculous.

It's easy to say that but welcome to the real world. Do you want your medication to arrive to a pharmacy on time? Do you want the grocery store to have the food you want?

These are shit ton of jobs that like it or not, actually need people to reliably show up for work. That's why the devil is in the details. If you get 25 pts a year and leaving early for a doctor appointment is 1 point and missing a whole day for a funeral is 2 I just do not see how that is unreasonable. If you need to miss more time than that unplanned and not including medical/FML than maybe this isn't the job for you. If that opinion is too much for you than I give up.

Sorry, Ayn Rand, didn’t mean to touch a nerve.

But if you believe for one second a worker should not be able to take a day off without penalty to be sick or attend a funeral, you’re wrong.

A point is a penalty. Hth.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 15, 2022 17:14:00 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Sept 15, 2022 8:36:37 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

Nah, you should actually just be able to take time off when you need to.

What is even the point of this board. There is no discussion. Jesus Christ I know you all hate me but it's a little ridiculous.

It's easy to say that but welcome to the real world. Do you want your medication to arrive to a pharmacy on time? Do you want the grocery store to have the food you want?

These are shit ton of jobs that like it or not, actually need people to reliably show up for work. That's why the devil is in the details. If you get 25 pts a year and leaving early for a doctor appointment is 1 point and missing a whole day for a funeral is 2 I just do not see how that is unreasonable. If you need to miss more time than that unplanned and not including medical/FML than maybe this isn't the job for you. If that opinion is too much for you than I give up.

Why are you assuming workers don't show up reliably?

I have shown up reliably to every job I have ever had, and have never been forced to comply with sadistic measures like having to take unpaid time off for sick leave.

Further, this is not the responsibility of the worker. This rests solely on the shoulders of the company to make sure they have contingency measures in place, such as hiring enough people with fair compensation practices, to keep and retain a workforce that can absorb people taking time off for illness, etc.

Because really, we just about saw the end result of "then this isn't the job for you" mentality, which is a total and complete meltdown of the system.

I also recognize that it's really hard to deprogram yourself from thinking that everything should rest on the shoulders of the workers. Companies have worked long and hard to condition our society to think this way.

[SusanBAnthony]

Sept 15, 2022 17:55:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 15, 2022 17:14:00 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

What is even the point of this board. There is no discussion. Jesus Christ I know you all hate me but it's a little ridiculous.

It's easy to say that but welcome to the real world. Do you want your medication to arrive to a pharmacy on time? Do you want the grocery store to have the food you want?

These are shit ton of jobs that like it or not, actually need people to reliably show up for work. That's why the devil is in the details. If you get 25 pts a year and leaving early for a doctor appointment is 1 point and missing a whole day for a funeral is 2 I just do not see how that is unreasonable. If you need to miss more time than that unplanned and not including medical/FML than maybe this isn't the job for you. If that opinion is too much for you than I give up.

Why are you assuming workers don't show up reliably?

I have shown up reliably to every job I have ever had, and have never been forced to comply with sadistic measures like having to take unpaid time off for sick leave.

Further, this is not the responsibility of the worker. This rests solely on the shoulders of the company to make sure they have contingency measures in place, such as hiring enough people with fair compensation practices, to keep and retain a workforce that can absorb people taking time off for illness, etc.

Because really, we just about saw the end result of "then this isn't the job for you" mentality, which is a total and complete meltdown of the system.

I also recognize that it's really hard to deprogram yourself from thinking that everything should rest on the shoulders of the workers. Companies have worked long and hard to condition our society to think this way.

I am not saying anyone isn't showing up reliably, I said I was interested to know the details of what the points system is. And that immediately goes to "it isn't reasonable no matter what". No discussion, just "it's always bad".

It's easy to say companies are responsible for having enough backup but there's a lot of grey area.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 15, 2022 18:24:15 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Sept 15, 2022 17:55:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Why are you assuming workers don't show up reliably?

I have shown up reliably to every job I have ever had, and have never been forced to comply with sadistic measures like having to take unpaid time off for sick leave.

Further, this is not the responsibility of the worker. This rests solely on the shoulders of the company to make sure they have contingency measures in place, such as hiring enough people with fair compensation practices, to keep and retain a workforce that can absorb people taking time off for illness, etc.

Because really, we just about saw the end result of "then this isn't the job for you" mentality, which is a total and complete meltdown of the system.

I also recognize that it's really hard to deprogram yourself from thinking that everything should rest on the shoulders of the workers. Companies have worked long and hard to condition our society to think this way.

I am not saying anyone isn't showing up reliably, I said I was interested to know the details of what the points system is. And that immediately goes to "it isn't reasonable no matter what". No discussion, just "it's always bad".

It's easy to say companies are responsible for having enough backup but there's a lot of grey area.

I don't think there is grey area here. Like other big companies, the railroads are making money hand over fist. There's no reason for them to be like this other than they don't want to cut into profit

[SusanBAnthony]

Even if you think I'm wrong about this, does anyone think I'm wrong about people being shut down with no discussion about 95% of topics?