Florida - Should they even rebuild?

[wildrice]

Nowhere is risk free, but some places are far less risky than others. I do think people are eventually going to have to move away from the most high risk areas. We do have a lot of American land in the middle of the country that hasn't been developed. It's just not as appealing because a lot of people who live by the beach or natural beauty in the west aren't going to want to move to the middle of Iowa or Illinois, which are perfectly nice places to live but lack the excitement of the coasts. Tornados do happen in the middle of the country, but generally only affect a small area and aren't nearly as destructive as some of these other natural disasters.

I empathize with people who do not want to leave their home or the state where they have roots, but on the other hand as someone who has moved states several times and whose family has mostly left where our roots are... you learn to live with it. Other places and houses can be nice, too. I would rather have long distance family than lose everything I own multiple times in my life, honestly. Of course not everyone feels as I do but I feel like climate change is eventually going to force them to have to get used to it.

I do not think government funds should be sunk into rebuilding in inhabitable places. I do think the government should support relocating people and making them as whole as possible, but it seems like a waste of everyone's time and money to keep throwing it toward places that are just going to have the same problem in 10-20 years again.

I'm also kind of bitter that the idea of giving students 10k for student loan forgiveness is such a major issue for so many red state voters, but then the government is supposed to hand over tens of thousands of dollars to people who chose to live on the beach and didn't want to spend money on flood insurance and that's just ok with those same voters?

[wildrice]

Oct 4, 2022 13:05:11 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Oct 4, 2022 12:24:56 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Nowhere is risk free, but some places are far less risky than others. I do think people are eventually going to have to move away from the most high risk areas. We do have a lot of American land in the middle of the country that hasn't been developed. It's just not as appealing because a lot of people who live by the beach or natural beauty in the west aren't going to want to move to the middle of Iowa or Illinois, which are perfectly nice places to live but lack the excitement of the coasts. Tornados do happen in the middle of the country, but generally only affect a small area and aren't nearly as destructive as some of these other natural disasters.

I empathize with people who do not want to leave their home or the state where they have roots, but on the other hand as someone who has moved states several times and whose family has mostly left where our roots are... you learn to live with it. Other places and houses can be nice, too. I would rather have long distance family than lose everything I own multiple times in my life, honestly. Of course not everyone feels as I do but I feel like climate change is eventually going to force them to have to get used to it.

I do not think government funds should be sunk into rebuilding in inhabitable places. I do think the government should support relocating people and making them as whole as possible, but it seems like a waste of everyone's time and money to keep throwing it toward places that are just going to have the same problem in 10-20 years again.

I'm also kind of bitter that the idea of giving students 10k for student loan forgiveness is such a major issue for so many red state voters, but then the government is supposed to hand over tens of thousands of dollars to people who chose to live on the beach and didn't want to spend money on flood insurance and that's just ok with those same voters?

This is not as easy as you make it sound. Where I live many are required to have flood insurance, maybe if you don’t have a mortgage it’s different? I’m not sure 100% on that. There are areas here, outside of Levee protection, where you either can’t get it, period, or it’s not affordable for an average person or family. And the money they get from the government doesn’t put a *dent* in the cost of rebuilding or relocating.

I am sure you are right, especially since you've had up close experience with this in the past! 

I should have mentioned, my thoughts on that come from reading this article the other day: www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/climate/hurricane-ian-flood-insurance.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR1FwVPcwkH_LKJ7eZ5k8soUplR5XLBG90oHzgMYP3donq6sc9p4pGpjdFQ

It did make it sound like many of the folks who were hit this time had the option to buy insurance and chose not to. This certainly may not be the case everywhere!

[felicity]

Oct 3, 2022 22:05:58 GMT -5 DotAndBuzz said:

Haven't ready any articles, but on Topsail Island, NC, if you're a 1st row home, and get washed away in the storm, that's it. You aren't allowed to rebuild. You still have your property, and private parking, but the most you can put up is a covered deck of limited dimension. So when the last big storm hit them, lots of houses washed away, and as you drive down the road next to the dunes, you see like 200 yards of just decks and private parking signs. Then like 7 houses, then more decks.

It sucks for the people who own that property, (and lots of people buy it as rental revenue, then fix it up and retire there), but the ocean is currently SO close to the first row houses. Like, literally feet at high tide some days. The dunes have shifted, and shoreline has shifted so much that it looks like people literally built ON the dunes (they didn't, but barrier island coasts shift). We rented a house there this summer, and it was shocking how close we were to the water. And these are full on Atlantic waves, not in a quiet bay or something.

I don't know what the answer is, but it feels impossible.

We go to Topsail as well and it is so crazy how close the houses are to the water. It's part of why we like the house we rent, because it is really cool to have the waves practically out the back door, but I can't understand why anyone would buy one of those houses. The one we rent is pretty new, and it was recently totally remodeled from hurricane damage from a few years ago, and it just sold to someone new. I am always shocked that that people are willing to build and buy those houses. 

[gault]

My boss purchased property literally right on the gulf, a few months ago, and only lost some shingles from ian. I doubt that climate change and an uptake in hurricanes and natural disasters will take away from the property value and perception of what having a beach house means, etc. It's sad and doesn't make logical sense but it's doubtful that things won't be rebuilt.

[ggirl]

Oct 4, 2022 15:50:01 GMT -5 felicity said:

Oct 3, 2022 22:05:58 GMT -5 DotAndBuzz said:

Haven't ready any articles, but on Topsail Island, NC, if you're a 1st row home, and get washed away in the storm, that's it. You aren't allowed to rebuild. You still have your property, and private parking, but the most you can put up is a covered deck of limited dimension. So when the last big storm hit them, lots of houses washed away, and as you drive down the road next to the dunes, you see like 200 yards of just decks and private parking signs. Then like 7 houses, then more decks.

It sucks for the people who own that property, (and lots of people buy it as rental revenue, then fix it up and retire there), but the ocean is currently SO close to the first row houses. Like, literally feet at high tide some days. The dunes have shifted, and shoreline has shifted so much that it looks like people literally built ON the dunes (they didn't, but barrier island coasts shift). We rented a house there this summer, and it was shocking how close we were to the water. And these are full on Atlantic waves, not in a quiet bay or something.

I don't know what the answer is, but it feels impossible.

We go to Topsail as well and it is so crazy how close the houses are to the water. It's part of why we like the house we rent, because it is really cool to have the waves practically out the back door, but I can't understand why anyone would buy one of those houses. The one we rent is pretty new, and it was recently totally remodeled from hurricane damage from a few years ago, and it just sold to someone new. I am always shocked that that people are willing to build and buy those houses. 

Because there is a market for it- as you stated. You rent it and like it because of how close it is. This ties into Florida issues too. As people continue to travel here for vacations and want beach front locations- people will continue build there. There’s a demand.

[Bad Dingo]

Oct 4, 2022 13:05:11 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Oct 4, 2022 12:24:56 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Nowhere is risk free, but some places are far less risky than others. I do think people are eventually going to have to move away from the most high risk areas. We do have a lot of American land in the middle of the country that hasn't been developed. It's just not as appealing because a lot of people who live by the beach or natural beauty in the west aren't going to want to move to the middle of Iowa or Illinois, which are perfectly nice places to live but lack the excitement of the coasts. Tornados do happen in the middle of the country, but generally only affect a small area and aren't nearly as destructive as some of these other natural disasters.

I empathize with people who do not want to leave their home or the state where they have roots, but on the other hand as someone who has moved states several times and whose family has mostly left where our roots are... you learn to live with it. Other places and houses can be nice, too. I would rather have long distance family than lose everything I own multiple times in my life, honestly. Of course not everyone feels as I do but I feel like climate change is eventually going to force them to have to get used to it.

I do not think government funds should be sunk into rebuilding in inhabitable places. I do think the government should support relocating people and making them as whole as possible, but it seems like a waste of everyone's time and money to keep throwing it toward places that are just going to have the same problem in 10-20 years again.

I'm also kind of bitter that the idea of giving students 10k for student loan forgiveness is such a major issue for so many red state voters, but then the government is supposed to hand over tens of thousands of dollars to people who chose to live on the beach and didn't want to spend money on flood insurance and that's just ok with those same voters?

This is not as easy as you make it sound. Where I live many are required to have flood insurance, maybe if you don’t have a mortgage it’s different? I’m not sure 100% on that. There are areas here, outside of Levee protection, where you either can’t get it, period, or it’s not affordable for an average person or family. And the money they get from the government doesn’t put a *dent* in the cost of rebuilding or relocating.

e360.yale.edu/features/on-the-alabama-coast-the-unluckiest-island-in-america
This article is about an island that keeps rebuilding after natural disasters. It states that the federal money residents have received to repeatedly rebuild amounts to $170k/resident. I admittedly don't know how federal flood insurance works but rebuilding in situations like this seems wasteful no matter how pretty living on the water is.

[pixy0stix]

Here's an article from 2012 that talks about Daughin island and the question posed in the OP - www.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/science/earth/as-coasts-rebuild-and-us-pays-again-critics-stop-to-ask-why.html

[irishbride2]

I struggle with this from a personal standpoint. Our area has the same risk of a direct hit at NYC. It's just in a weird part of Florida and the geography/climate makes it so. We haven't had one in over 100 years.

That being said, if we DO get a big one, it will be the end of our area. If Ian had come here, our peninsula would have been gone.

I feel like we are playing the odds. I also know that eventually, climate change will get us as well. We have prepared as best we can (we have the fancy hurricane doors and windows and shutters. But even if OUR house survives, most of the area will not. And at some point, its just going to be part of the ocean.

[Velar Fricative]

Oct 7, 2022 8:48:19 GMT -5 irishbride2 said:

I struggle with this from a personal standpoint. Our area has the same risk of a direct hit at NYC. It's just in a weird part of Florida and the geography/climate makes it so. We haven't had one in over 100 years.

That being said, if we DO get a big one, it will be the end of our area. If Ian had come here, our peninsula would have been gone.

I feel like we are playing the odds. I also know that eventually, climate change will get us as well. We have prepared as best we can (we have the fancy hurricane doors and windows and shutters. But even if OUR house survives, most of the area will not. And at some point, it’s just going to be part of the ocean.

Where did you see that the direct hit risk is the same between Tampa and NYC? I can’t find a source that says that but am still looking.

[gardengal]

Oct 7, 2022 20:49:15 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Oct 7, 2022 8:48:19 GMT -5 irishbride2 said:

I struggle with this from a personal standpoint. Our area has the same risk of a direct hit at NYC. It's just in a weird part of Florida and the geography/climate makes it so. We haven't had one in over 100 years.

That being said, if we DO get a big one, it will be the end of our area. If Ian had come here, our peninsula would have been gone.

I feel like we are playing the odds. I also know that eventually, climate change will get us as well. We have prepared as best we can (we have the fancy hurricane doors and windows and shutters. But even if OUR house survives, most of the area will not. And at some point, it’s just going to be part of the ocean.

Where did you see that the direct hit risk is the same between Tampa and NYC? I can’t find a source that says that but am still looking.

This FEMA map suggests Hillsborough county/Tampa is Relatively Low. I’m on mobile & can’t see if map is clickable to hone in on nyc (nor is my knowledge of nys geography as good as my fl geography), but the general nyc area is very low & with relatively low areas 

hazards.fema.gov/nri/hurricane

[bdubs419]

Oct 4, 2022 16:42:11 GMT -5 ggirl said:

Oct 4, 2022 15:50:01 GMT -5 felicity said:

We go to Topsail as well and it is so crazy how close the houses are to the water. It's part of why we like the house we rent, because it is really cool to have the waves practically out the back door, but I can't understand why anyone would buy one of those houses. The one we rent is pretty new, and it was recently totally remodeled from hurricane damage from a few years ago, and it just sold to someone new. I am always shocked that that people are willing to build and buy those houses. 

Because there is a market for it- as you stated. You rent it and like it because of how close it is. This ties into Florida issues too. As people continue to travel here for vacations and want beach front locations- people will continue build there. There’s a demand.

Topsail is absolutely beautiful! We moved to the Raleigh/Durham area 4 years ago and almost purchased a house about a year ago in Topsail. We knew so many neighbors that owned there and rented and were making a killing. Well… the more research we did, the more we realized we HAD to back out, so we did. This happened to be in North Topsail too where it’s the worst for beach erosion. I can’t believe that people keep buying in certain areas there.

That said, we did recently purchase an investment beach property in another area of NC (closer to SC) and this thread does make me paranoid. We got lucky with Ian that we didn’t have any damage/flooding, but a lot of the homes on the canals completely flooded.