Redshirting older kids?

[mae0111]

We've talked about redshirting younger kids in the past.  I was wondering what people thought about redshirting older kids.

DD1 is in 7th grade.  She gets straight A's with very little effort at her school.  It's a tiny school - only 10 kids in her grade.  We think it's time to move on and go someplace that will challenge her.

I'm considering redshirting her for a few reasons.  Athletics does not factor in.

1. I'm concerned that, while she's getting A's where she is, she may not be able to keep up at the new school.  We are finding that her school is drastically behind in terms of math, which is infuriating to me.  Her standardized test scores to not match her grades, but that could be due to a number of things - ADHD, easily distracted, poor time management, etc.

2. Socially she has always struggled.  Middle school is such a huge period of social development, and I feel that hers is stunted this year since she's only dealing with a limited number of kids (that she really doesn't hang out with at all).  

Giving her a year to "catch up" on both seems like the right thing to do

But the disadvantages...

1. Could she be bored?  Maybe. 

2. The cost.  The school is not cheap.  It's a huge expense to send her for an extra year.

3.  Not really a disadvantage, but from a social perspective, while she doesn't hang out with school kids, she goes away to camp and is thrown in with some new kids every year.  She does very well per the counselors and owners, so maybe the social thing would be fine???

Her teachers seem to be going out of their way to send me complimentary emails frequently.  I think there's a full-court press to keep her whole class at the school for one more year.  So I'm kind of leery of anything that they send me, and I don't think any of them would give me good advice.

So, would you consider it in this case?

[traveltheworld]

How much older would she be compared to the other kids? i.e. are we talking about a December birthday for a January cut-off, or are we talking about a July birthday for a January cut-off? If you are concerned about the social aspects, it might be awkward for her (and I'd think the other kids would notice) if she's not close to the cut-off.

Also, what does your DD want to do? At her age, I'd give more weight to what she wants.

I wouldn't worry too much about the academics - grade 7/8 is still early enough to try and catch up; and if she generally does well in school, then it's just a matter of having the right level of instructions. You might need to hire a tutor / do more in the initial months, but otherwise I wouldn't think it'll be a long-term issue.

[waverly]

Maybe. I would talk to the school that she will be entering next year about where they would place her. Does that affect admissions? For example, in order to get into the school, they would place her a year below? I don't know how private school plays into it, but a good public school would have a differentiated math plan to get her up to speed.

There is a lot of research that grade retention is not helpful in the older years, if at all. Meaning, if you were to repeat a grade, the most beneficial would be Kindergarten, and it's not that beneficial afterwards.

Every child is different though. So you definitely have to take the individual child into consideration.

I feel that every child is behind socially due to the pandemic, so I don't know if that would be a major factor. Teachers in middle school are reporting about a year delay in maturity, social skills, and even academic skills due to the pandemic.  So if she is a year behind she's in the company of the whole rest of the country.  They all seem to be a year behind also, so in that case she would be on grade level for what everyone else is doing on average throughout the country.  

[mae0111]

traveltheworld, I forgot to mention that. She would be really old for her grade. The cutoff here is Sept 1, and she has an early October birthday. So she's already one of the oldest in her class. So she's 13 in the 7th grade right now. That was a concern of mine. I feel like it's less noticeable at prep schools because so many kids do it for athletics, whereas it would be more of a topic of discussion at a public school. But I don't know.

Another thought is that the 8th graders will have been together for 2-3 years already - will it be too difficult for someone with social challenges to break in to a group? 7th they've only been together for 1-2 years (School starts with about 15 kids in the 5th grade, then goes up to 65 kids in the 6th. Then they accept a few more in 7th and 8th, and have another big acceptance year in 9th).

I worry about letting her make the decision. She will agree to a tutor if needed, and then she will fight tooth and nail against the tutor.

[midwestmama]

Lurker here, but a family we know is doing this with their older DS. He turned 13 in May and was in 7th grade last school year. They are doing it because he was struggling a bit in school (academics) and it was impacting his self-esteem and confidence. (He is also smaller in size and the parents felt that might be impacting his self-esteem and confidence as well.) They chose to repeat 7th grade doing homeschool (he had been going to private school previously). I haven't had a chance to connect with the parents to see how the homeschool year is going so far.

In your situation, mae0111, it might be good to explore other schools that do provide some challenge and has more students. If it were me, I would also be concerned that the current school is behind on academics. Could you ask potential schools if it would be possible to do some sort of review after the first month to confirm staying in 7th grade or if it really would be better for your DD1 to be in 8th grade? (I'm just thinking back to when my DS was in young 5's K and K, teachers and parents could discuss if there was a need to move up/down.)

[mommyatty]

I absolutely would not hold her back so she’s more than a year older than most other kids in her class. Especially in middle school when it becomes super apparent. That will probably harm her ability to fit in rather than help.

[k3am]

Another person just here to say that I'm pretty sure most schools are behind academically. It's especially bad here, where we forced public school kids to be remote for 1.5 years while private schools went back in person in fall 2020.

[marie]

Oct 25, 2022 13:55:21 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

I absolutely would not hold her back so she’s more than a year older than most other kids in her class. Especially in middle school when it becomes super apparent. That will probably harm her ability to fit in rather than help.

I am here too. We even have kids get an exception to start school past the deadline, so she could be nearly 2 years older than some. That is a huge difference. I would rather offer extra supports if needed vs holding her back.

[steamboat185]

I wouldn’t hold her back. I also wouldn’t worry too much about being the new kid. School turnover is super high. People move and change schools a lot, especially in the last few years.
Edit I am doing this correctly? She is 13 in 7th grade, she would be 14 for 7th grade, 15 in 8th grade- and able to get her permit to drive in like March? 16 in 9th grade and driving potentially as a Freshman?
I’m sure there are a lot of reasons why driving all through HS would be great, but there seems like a lot of reasons why having a license throughout you entire HS career would be something to try and avoid. Obviously not the only factor, but definitely something that would influence my choice.

[vasc]

Hard no on retaining older kids.

I don’t think the math issue is a big deal. Around here, in 8th grade some kids take algebra for high school credit. Some don’t. They take it in 9th grade. No big deal. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[erbear]

I teach 8th grade at a private school where parents sometimes reclassify (redshirt) their kids coming from other schools by putting them in 8th again. It works well for some kids, and is awful for others. The deciding factor for me would be what the kid wants.

I just read your update. I don't think I would put an already old for her grade kid another year behind. She'd be 15 a month into 8th grade?  I would not do this. I have 12 year olds starting 8th grade. This is a bad plan.

[sandandsea]

I wouldn’t hold her back a year. I think 8th grade is a great time to try something new and be pushed out of your comfort zone a little. If she can get all As then I think she’d be fine at any school or at least has the ability to catch up and drive to try to do well. Also a bigger school will give her the ability and diversity to make new friends and find her group which is a huge part of middle school and I can see not finding that with only 10 kids in the class.

I don’t think holding her another year will solve anything because what’s going to change next year to make it a better experience or better prepare her for high school? I think having a challenging 8th grade year is normal and will better prepare her in the long run.

[k3am]

On your pros list, I'd say all of these are theoretical. You have no idea how either of these would play out. They could work out entirely in her favor, against her, or be in the exact same boat. Also in regards to grades or socialization, how do you even frame this in a way that makes her feel okay about herself? You got A's, but only because it was too easy for you, and you wouldn't be good enough somewhere else? Socially, we think you're stunted or awkward and need to catch up. The best way to make someone feel awkward is to point out that they are.

On your con list, boredom, you'd again be speculating, but I feel like this one is more likely. Repeating a grade is likely a lot of repeat of circulum. Cost? That's a definite outcome. Social aspect? Again, I don't think this is a con.

So if I were to edit your pro/con list, I'd say you honestly have no hard and fast pro's on this list vs. a concrete con (cost) and the highly likely potential of boredom. I'd also add in the huge age gap as a con.

[mae0111]

Thanks everyone - you've given me a lot to think about.

There wouldn't a repeat in the curriculum - it's very different. But there is a very good/almost 100% chance that she has not learned the base material that she would need at the new school. We are finding that already while she's studying for the placement test - she hasn't been taught probably 75% of the math that's on the exam. I hired a tutor specifically to teach her that math.

So the question in my mind is: is she equipped to adapt to a new school, new kids, new environment that she needs to navigate (a huge challenge for her), AND be massively challenged to catch up academically.  

But maybe I'm underestimating her and her ability to adapt. 

And maybe the age thing is a much bigger deal than I thought.  It just wasn't an issue when I was in school.  My BFF is almost 2 years older than me and we graduated together.  I was really young and he was really old.

[marie]

Oct 26, 2022 15:27:48 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

Thanks everyone - you've given me a lot to think about.

There wouldn't a repeat in the curriculum - it's very different. But there is a very good/almost 100% chance that she has not learned the base material that she would need at the new school. We are finding that already while she's studying for the placement test - she hasn't been taught probably 75% of the math that's on the exam. I hired a tutor specifically to teach her that math.

So the question in my mind is: is she equipped to adapt to a new school, new kids, new environment that she needs to navigate (a huge challenge for her), AND be massively challenged to catch up academically.  

But maybe I'm underestimating her and her ability to adapt. 

And maybe the age thing is a much bigger deal than I thought.  It just wasn't an issue when I was in school.  My BFF is almost 2 years older than me and we graduated together.  I was really young and he was really old.

Is there a reason why you are waiting if you feel it isn't working? I think starting a new school after the new year is a good time.

[xctsclrx]

Oof. Only you can answer this question, but middle school absolutely sucks. Due to moving around I went to 6 different schools between 5 and 8 grade. They all sucked. High school was so much better. Although I only went to two of those.

I'd be really hesitant to prolong the middle school experience. 9th grade is usually another time to re-invent and define yourself again.

[mae0111]

I thought about moving her mid year this year, but I thought it would be even harder for her to catch up.

I also thought about waiting until 9th grade, but I really don’t like what’s happening at her school right now. Nothing totally awful, but just… not worth paying for another year, you know? I’d rather invest that money in the new school. And I don’t want her to get further behind.

I really appreciate all of the feedback. It’s given me a lot to consider. There is also a possibility that the new school recommends that she repeat a year - test scores, no room in the class she’d apply for, or even just if admissions thinks she’d be a better fit in the other class. All of these are possibilities. The new school just felt like such a good fit for both kids. I hope it works out.

[sandandsea]

One other thing to consider is the placement exam Might not be stuff their average student knows. Ds took a placement exam at a private school here during covid and we were told
It had a variety of material from the grade above and below his grade to cast a wide net and see where he actually falls so he wasn’t expected to know everything on it.

[sdlaura]

I red-shirted my small for his age, June birthday son, but wouldn’t personally consider it for an October birthday. I may also do it with my May 15 birthday now 2-year-old, because he was a month early and due in June. But we’ll see - even that seems a little early to redshirt.

My DD has an August 15th birthday and is the youngest kid in her grade. When we were looking to switch her from public to private in the early days of the pandemic, when she was going into 3rd, the private schools were telling us they’d probably put her in the lower grade. I figured I’d let them meet her and then decide - I was pretty sure they’d end up keeping her on the older grade based on her confidence, academics, and being tall, but I would have been ok moving her if the schools thought it was the best choice.