Toddler sleep help. Again :(

[urbancowgirl]

Hi everyone.  I've posted here before about DD's (age 2.5) sleep troubles.  We seem to be going through another one of her regressions.  For the past two weeks, she has been waking up screaming anywhere between 4 and 6 a.m. This started the day after Halloween, and the time change compounded the problem.  We've kept her schedule consistent for the past two weeks, hoping that the early wake-ups would end, but they haven't and we're ready to make some changes.  I'm wondering if a shorter nap or later bedtime would help.  What would you try?

Here is her schedule:
Wake at 7 a.m.  A pipe dream at this point.
Nap from 1 to 3 p.m.  She usually falls right to sleep.
Bedtime 7:30 p.m., usually talks to herself/sings for about half an hour before falling asleep

When she wakes in the middle of the night, we open the room to her door and tell her it's not time to get up yet.  Then we leave.  Sometimes she falls back asleep until 7-ish, but other times (like this morning), she screams every 20 minutes.

Things that have NOT helped this go-around:
Okay to wake clock.  We use a Hatch that turns green at 7 a.m.  She has zero respect for it, ha ha.
Cry it out.  We can't let her cry it out because she gets so upset that she bangs her head and body against the rails of her crib.
Books in her crib to look at if she's up too early.  She's very particular about what she allows in her crib (right now it's one specific book and five specific stuffed animals), and refuses to allow more books.  I tried give her one this morning and she freaked out and threw it on the floor.

Any advice and/or commiseration is appreciated.  I've been up since 4:30 this morning, which makes me want to cry.

[devonpow]

I hate to say it but maybe it’s time to drop the nap 😬 Both my kids stopped napping by that point and it helped their nighttime sleep (plus moved their bedtime earlier - like 6/6:30 for a while)

[treschic]

My daughter is similar age, similar nap schedule. We start bed time around 8 but she probably falls asleep around 9 or sometimes later. Week days I wake her at 7:20 and weekends she’ll usually sleep until 8ish. So if you want to keep the nap, I’d push bedtime a bit and see if that helps. Otherwise dropping the nap might help but I personally am not ready for that. For middle of the night wake ups, I usually rock her for a couple minutes and put her back in bed and that has worked well. When she’s gone through a regression, I eventually have to do cry it out because the wake ups just escalate. It usually resolves within a couple nights. I also agree that a ok to wake clock would not work for her yet.

[sdlaura]

I would either go with a later bedtime or drop the nap. My 2.5 year old started boycotting/screaming at bedtime until we pushed it later and/or skipped the nap, depending on the day, and now he's happy and sleeps well again with minimal screaming.

[gastro]

I’d skip the nap and see if that helps.

[thebreakfastclub]

My son got very mad around 20 months old in his crib, so we switched to the toddler bed and it was a game changer.

[noodleoo]

We had to drop nap for DD2 at 3. It was kind of an either/or: we could either have a break in the day while she napped or have her sleep a reasonable amount of time at night. When she was napping, we’d put her to bed at 8:30-9 PM, but she wouldn’t fall asleep until like 10-11 PM. Lucky for us she slept until 7, but those were rough evenings. We dropped nap and now she sleeps about 9 PM to 7 AM. She has always been a crap sleeper and I just don’t think she needs as much sleep as other kids.

So my advice is to first try a later bedtime (maybe 8:30 instead of 7:30) if you want to keep the nap. Is that doesn’t work, try dropping the nap. Kids are all over the place with when they drop the nap. My DD1 kept naps until age 5/Kindergarten (it was a necessity because she had night terrors, a whole other shitty sleep issue). Her best friend who was the exact same age stopped napping at 2. Two extremes, most kids are probably somewhere in the middle.

[urbancowgirl]

Thank you for your responses, everyone. As parents we have precious little time to ourselves, so I really appreciate that you shared some of yours with me. Yesterday I decided to wake up DD from her nap half an hour early, and we also put her to bed half an hour later than usual. It did not go well. She was up at 12:30 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m., and 6 a.m. Then she slept until 7:15 a.m. It seems like she is struggling with her sleep cycle transitions. I'll try a shorter nap and later bedtime again today. But I guess it may be time to give up the nap altogether if this doesn't work. (Cue me crying.) Thanks again, and I'll let y'all know how it goes.

thebreakfastclub, we thought about moving her out of her crib, but I worry she might not want to stay in her room if she's not contained. How did the transition go for you?

[kath16]

Nov 15, 2022 13:27:52 GMT -5 urbancowgirl said:

Thank you for your responses, everyone. As parents we have precious little time to ourselves, so I really appreciate that you shared some of yours with me. Yesterday I decided to wake up DD from her nap half an hour early, and we also put her to bed half an hour later than usual. It did not go well. She was up at 12:30 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m., and 6 a.m. Then she slept until 7:15 a.m. It seems like she is struggling with her sleep cycle transitions. I'll try a shorter nap and later bedtime again today. But I guess it may be time to give up the nap altogether if this doesn't work. (Cue me crying.) Thanks again, and I'll let y'all know how it goes.

thebreakfastclub , we thought about moving her out of her crib, but I worry she might not want to stay in her room if she's not contained. How did the transition go for you?

Super Nanny has a great method for returning kids to their bed if you go this route

[waverly]

For staying in the room, some people gate the entrance to the room. We closed the door and put the handle on it so they couldn't open it. Some people don't like that method for fire reasons.

[awkwardpenguin]

This isn't sleep advice exactly, but some kids are challenging sleepers or need a lot more overnight parenting than average. Your child is sleeping for 8 to 10 continuous hours, and you are expecting her to sleep 14 hours a day, which could be more than she needs at 2.5.

Personally I'd try a more active "back to sleep" whenever she wakes up early (go in, pats, a transitional object, whatever works to get her back to sleep) and consider if your expectations are realistic. It might be time to cut the nap entirely, or just deal with the early wake ups.

If she has periods where her sleep is better, I'd wait until then to do a toddler bed transition.

[thebreakfastclub]

Nov 15, 2022 13:27:52 GMT -5 urbancowgirl said:

Thank you for your responses, everyone. As parents we have precious little time to ourselves, so I really appreciate that you shared some of yours with me. Yesterday I decided to wake up DD from her nap half an hour early, and we also put her to bed half an hour later than usual. It did not go well. She was up at 12:30 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m., and 6 a.m. Then she slept until 7:15 a.m. It seems like she is struggling with her sleep cycle transitions. I'll try a shorter nap and later bedtime again today. But I guess it may be time to give up the nap altogether if this doesn't work. (Cue me crying.) Thanks again, and I'll let y'all know how it goes.

thebreakfastclub, we thought about moving her out of her crib, but I worry she might not want to stay in her room if she's not contained. How did the transition go for you?

My son never went anywhere at night. He would call if he needed something, but he never moved in the dark. He held his urine all night too starting around age 3. So it was no big deal.

[urbancowgirl]

Nov 15, 2022 14:11:22 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

This isn't sleep advice exactly, but some kids are challenging sleepers or need a lot more overnight parenting than average. Your child is sleeping for 8 to 10 continuous hours, and you are expecting her to sleep 14 hours a day, which could be more than she needs at 2.5.

Personally I'd try a more active "back to sleep" whenever she wakes up early (go in, pats, a transitional object, whatever works to get her back to sleep) and consider if your expectations are realistic. It might be time to cut the nap entirely, or just deal with the early wake ups.

If she has periods where her sleep is better, I'd wait until then to do a toddler bed transition.

I wouldn't say I expect her to sleep 14 hours a day. The schedule I provided is just what she was doing before we hit this regression.  I'm fine with less sleep, but the multiple wakings in the middle of the night are not sustainable for my own mental health.

[beerlover]

Yes, I also wonder about transitioning out of the crib and making the whole room a safe place so she can't bang her head/body on any of it, and then leaving her be. Do you have a video monitor you can watch her on so that you can quickly make sure shes safe? I would not have the patience for this at 2.5 and be resorting to CIO for sure. Middle of the night wakings really messed with my mental health. This may be unpopular but I did lock my son in his room for a time around age 3 because he just kept repeatedly coming out. We would always go to him if he needed something, and would watch him on the monitor to make sure he was ok. He honestly didn't put up much of a fuss though once he realized he couldn't get out, it may have been more difficult if he had fought it more. Once he fell asleep he was usually good to go for the night.

Hugs, this sucks, I'm sorry!

[noodleoo]

Nov 15, 2022 14:28:39 GMT -5 urbancowgirl said:

Nov 15, 2022 14:11:22 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

This isn't sleep advice exactly, but some kids are challenging sleepers or need a lot more overnight parenting than average. Your child is sleeping for 8 to 10 continuous hours, and you are expecting her to sleep 14 hours a day, which could be more than she needs at 2.5.

Personally I'd try a more active "back to sleep" whenever she wakes up early (go in, pats, a transitional object, whatever works to get her back to sleep) and consider if your expectations are realistic. It might be time to cut the nap entirely, or just deal with the early wake ups.

If she has periods where her sleep is better, I'd wait until then to do a toddler bed transition.

I wouldn't say I expect her to sleep 14 hours a day. The schedule I provided is just what she was doing before we hit this regression.  I'm fine with less sleep, but the multiple wakings in the middle of the night are not sustainable for my own mental health.

OMG the multiple night wakings are a form of torture.  I'm sorry you are dealing with it.  We had it too with DD2.  And crying it out didn't work, she would just get hysterical and then wake up her sister so that we were all awake.  I just have to throw that in because people would always advise CIO and then seem to not believe me when I said we tried it.  We did it successfully with DD1, so it is not like we didn't try.

No chance of an ear infection?  Sometimes crappy sleep was the only sign we had for DD2.

Anyway, I'm sending hugs and reassurance that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, it will pass eventually (not helpful, I know).  I hope she makes it through this regression soon.

[joy]

If you went in her room and laid down with her at the first wake up, would she go back to sleep?

I am path of least resistance - if the kid just wants me to sleep next to her and it gets us thru this time period then I’m going to do it. Once sleep cycles are connected better or whatever this is passes, then there are techniques to ending it.

But sleep. SLEEP. Whatever works, just get the sleep.

[sdlaura]

We did switch the crib to the toddler bed for my almost 2.5 year old. Before then, he would sometimes climb out of his crib but then it was harder for him to get back in than with the toddler bed. That’s the earliest we’ve made that transition for our 4 kids. We use a top of the door lock since our kids can defeat the door handle one, and I am not willing to risk a toddler roaming the house at night alone.

I can’t imagine a scenario where I’d just be fine with my non-newborn kid waking up multiple times overnight and not try to fix the situation - totally agree with you OP that that’s not sustainable or healthy for most people. We don’t lay with any of our kids to fall asleep unless they are sick - it’s important to me that they can fall asleep on their own and a couple of my friends still have to lay with their 3rd-graders, so I don’t want to get into that habit.

My older kids went through various regressions but still needed naps most days as 3-year-olds. Personally I’d try the later bedtime for a while first. I also agree with PP to maybe get your toddler checked for an ear infection because that does seem to be a primary cause of sleep issues with my kids when they’re toddlers. Good luck!

[urbancowgirl]

Quick update: Unfortunately, things have not improved with a shortened nap and later bedtime, and DD has been waking 3-4 times per night beginning at 11:30 pm. I’m an anxious mess and I’ve been struggling to get back to sleep when she wakes. I have a consult with a sleep coach this afternoon. I want to hear what she thinks before we drop the nap completely, but I’m ready to try that next.

Oh, and I am taking DD to the doctor tomorrow to rule out an ear infection. She had a dentist appt. last week and the dentist did not think her molars were the issue.

[devonpow]

Nov 22, 2022 8:18:45 GMT -5 urbancowgirl said:

Quick update: Unfortunately, things have not improved with a shortened nap and later bedtime, and DD has been waking 3-4 times per night beginning at 11:30 pm. I’m an anxious mess and I’ve been struggling to get back to sleep when she wakes. I have a consult with a sleep coach this afternoon. I want to hear what she thinks before we drop the nap completely, but I’m ready to try that next.

Oh, and I am taking DD to the doctor tomorrow to rule out an ear infection. She had a dentist appt. last week and the dentist did not think her molars were the issue.

ugh I’m sorry. Have you tried no nap/earlier bed time? It sucks to get rid of the nap but I remember that stage where it helped my kids/a lot of friends. I remember it being a problem with kids in daycare since there was mandated nap time, and if the kid napped their night sleep was horrible. It’s worth a try

[urbancowgirl]

[mention]devonpow [/mention] Eliminating the nap is next. It’s tough because it seems like she still needs it. She’s usually cranky and rubbing her eyes after lunch. But I’m willing to power through some crankiness if it means better nighttime sleep.

[karinothing]

Have you had her iron levels checked? Low iron can mess with sleep.

[urbancowgirl]

Nov 22, 2022 10:26:06 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Have you had her iron levels checked? Low iron can mess with sleep.

No, I have not.  That's interesting, and I'll ask the doctor about it tomorrow.

[wise_rita]

Update urbancowgirl?

I'm in the middle of the 4-month sleep regression with DD2 and am realizing that it is a cake walk compared to toddler sleep. Thankfully DD1 is in a good spot right now but I foresee them tag teaming regressions for the rest of my damn life.

[monalua]

2 of my kids stopped napping around that age. It improved their sleep, they went to bed earlier and slept later. Hang in there. I had very early risers for years too.

[konapoppy]

I hope you have a good update.

If you are still struggling, have you tried making sure she goes to bed with a full stomach? One of mine wasn’t eating enough at dinner, but didn’t know how to communicate hunger (took longer to realize rumbling tummy = hungry). Even now if we notice she didn’t eat much, we offer her a banana sometime before bed. It has made a world of difference making sure she eats something filling for dinner. Maybe it has something to do with blood sugar drops 🤷🏻‍♀️

[urbancowgirl]

Unfortunately I don’t have a positive update. ☹️ The doctor gave her a clean bill of health. We are so desperate that we dragged a mattress into her room three nights ago and started going to bed with her. She woke twice the first night, not at all the second, but then was up hourly between 11 pm and 3 am last night. DH and I are alternating sleeping in her room, so at least one of us is fully rested every day. We gave up trying to get her to nap a few days ago because she was just screaming when we tried to leave the room. Lately it’s felt more like a power struggle and testing limits than a fear, but everything is so convoluted that I don’t know how to get back on track. We hired a sleep consultant and our first appointment is on Thursday. Thank you for checking on me and continuing to try to help. This has been such a hard month.

[mpm]

We had a long stretch of night wakings like that shortly after our kid turned 2 and we realized that she went immediately back to sleep if we just picked her up and put her next to us in our bed so that’s what we did. Is it ideal? No. But do we all get a reasonable amount of sleep that way? Yes. These years are short. Kid won’t need you like this forever. FWIW, it was like that for a few months and now she’s pretty much sleeping through the night in her own bed again. No clue what changed. 🤷‍♀️

[wise_rita]

Nov 28, 2022 0:17:16 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

I hope you have a good update.

If you are still struggling, have you tried making sure she goes to bed with a full stomach? One of mine wasn’t eating enough at dinner, but didn’t know how to communicate hunger (took longer to realize rumbling tummy = hungry). Even now if we notice she didn’t eat much, we offer her a banana sometime before bed. It has made a world of difference making sure she eats something filling for dinner. Maybe it has something to do with blood sugar drops 🤷🏻‍♀️

I need to remember this. DD1 eats very, very little so the next time she starts sleeping crappy at least I'll have someone to blame.

[al dente]

Oh man I remember my DD went through this. And then one day it just stopped. I tried so much stuff, and was always talking to my friends about it and would get so frustrated because everything that worked for them was not working for my kid. Typically when she was waking up multiple times a night it was from getting molars. Teething really, really affected her sleep.

My only other suggestion would be to change her clock to early, like 5:45, and do a sticker chart. Have something super high value for one night sleeping until the clock changes, and then slowly extend the time between prizes. I feel like I had mediocre success with this lol.

[doglove]

Could it be teething/molar eruptions? We go through these cycles every time these last molars erupt. I have a 34 month old daughter and the teeth have just been awful.