I don’t think any reputable source says puppies should be separated from their litter before 8 weeks and I wouldn’t get a dog from a “breeder” who did.
Absolutely. Our breeder was firm that puppies stayed with the mom and litter until 10 weeks and indeed he is a well socialized dog.
OP: have you thought about what you’ll do if the dog isn’t hypoallergenic as you’d hoped?
The thing with doodles is that the genetics and health issues are questionable. No reputable poodle or lab breeder is going to go ahead and create a mutt with their best breeding dogs. So the dogs being used for this are subpar breeding dogs. Labs can have hip issues for instance, so breeders test for that in their dogs and do their best to keep that and other health issues out of their litters.
Despite all this, it seems like everyone I know has a doodle of some kind. 🤷♀️
I hope you understand where we as a group (mostly) are coming from.
Both my H and I were *all in* on getting our first dog. His first vet bill was almost $1000 to get him caught up on shots, his general checkup, etc. Towards end of life we spent probably $5000 because of weight loss, excessive bleeding, and found out he had untreatable cancer. Our second dog was great with all the dogs at the rescue but then became reactive to any and all dogs for her entire life no matter how many trainers we worked with. She was 85lbs and when we walked her we had to be *on*. But she was great with her dog brother and our daughter after she was born. Would you be prepared to spend 10 years of your life dealing with that type of behavior? Our current pup was rescued and she had an undiagnosed broken hip and tooth. Both those surgeries in the first three months we had her cost about $4000. I can't imagine how much resentment he/I would have had if we'd spent this much and he/I wasn't all on board with dogs. To me, adopting any animal is a commitment to treat them as you would a human for their entire life. Through illnesses, injuries, unknowns, ups, downs, and in betweens. It's so so so much easier to do that if everyone is on the same playing field.
Finally, we worked with a rescue before COVID hit and fostered dogs. It was HEARTBREAKING to see dogs come back through no fault of their own. There has been a huge uptick in this now that people are going back to work and maybe can't handle the dog anymore. And all those dogs that didn't get socialization are now thrown into this terrifying place and missing their family and it's horrible. Most of our fosters were pit mixes, so there's a whole other stigma with that, but it sticks with any dog regardless of breeding history.
Oh, thanks InBetweenDays, I definitely assumed! That mix may not be as bad then, but labs can still be high energy, though not as much as an Aussie. My in laws had the sweetest, calmest black lab, and now they have an extremely anxious and hyperactive black lab. You never know.
Do you know how many puppies are available to adopt via shelters and rescues? Literally thousands. There is no reason to buy a dog from a breeder, it perpetuates the problem. If you’re worried about size, rescue a dog who’s a little older so you have a better idea of how big they’ll be.
So I've studied this up, down, and sideways. I'm pretty much an expert on "hypoallergenic" (or not) dog breeds and research by now as I've thought through like every angle, and I still believe that this our best personal fit. I've talked to tons of people, researched breeders, looked at rescues.
Other than InBetweenDays , I don't think anyone actually knows what dog I'm talking about. Australian Labradoodles are different from regular labradoodles and also don't have any Australian Shepherd; they are now being bred as multi-gen dogs.
I realize this will probably be really hard ( I STILL think about this every day and it's not a done deal until we get the dog) and I know I might regret it, especially at first, but I would never "re-home" a dog unless it had aggression issues that we couldn't solve.
You don't have to agree; obviously we're not on the same page and that's okay; but I'm giving this much more forethought and consideration than most people would.
Buying a mixed breed aside (and PPS made good points about that), I do not think the combination of Aussie shepherd and poodle would be good for a first time dog owner, let alone one who seems to have a pretty busy lifestyle already. Both those breeds are high energy dogs and Aussies in particular require a lot of training and would rather have a job to do. You describe them as Aussie Labradoodles so I don't know if there's any lab in the mix as well, but add in the spinny eternal puppy attitude and prey drive of a retriever and you've got a dog that will need a TON of work.
You say you have pick of a puppy, but good breeders should select the puppy for you. They generally do this based on their observations and interactions with the pups, and will match personalities/energy levels to their clients. This is so people don't pick based on cuteness and colour only to find out the dog is too skittish or assertive for their liking.
I have a purebred dog so I'm not militant about people getting rescues, but I think an advantage of that route is you can get an adult dog whose personality and energy level is known, who has some basic training, and can slot right into your family.
lol at expert on hypoallergenic dogs. Spoiler alert - that’s not really a thing; if that’s what you truly need, look into purebred poodles. You’re buying into a trend by getting a doodle, and living things shouldn’t be trendy.
Post by SusanBAnthony on Jan 4, 2023 7:50:47 GMT -5
We have a poodle that was rehomed to us because they were actually still allergic to her so reframe your thoughts on a doodle being hypoallergenic.
Also before you get this dog, find a local groomer. Make sure they will take a doodle. Many places it is hard to find a groomer at all and some refuse doodles because their coats are the worst to groom. Some poodle/poodle mix rescues require this before adopting because people do not understand the reality of doodle coats because of the nonsense breeders spout.
At the end of the day though, run from the 7 week breeder. The 9 week breeder is probably a decent choice if they are doing puppy culture and socializing well.
The 7 week thing is a thing in some areas due to hunting people having a culture around starting hunting training at 7 weeks. I don't agree but if they are doing it for that reason it's better than what this doodle breeder is doing. Puppies are a giant pain in the ass, and expensive, from weeks 4-8. The mom isn't nursing, they pee and poo everywhere, they eat a lot, they have to be dewormed and get shots twice, etc. This breeder is doubtless just trying to avoid a week of those expenses because these aren't hunting dogs.
Post by timorousbeastie on Jan 4, 2023 8:07:10 GMT -5
I know you said you know all about hypoallergenic breeds, but there really is no guarantee at all that you won’t react to these dogs. I don’t have terrible dog allergies, but they are bad enough that I won’t get a dog of my own. The dogs I’ve had the worst reactions to have all been doodles (both ALD and goldendoodles). The only way you are going to know if you will have a reaction to a particular dog is to be around that dog. If allergies are a deciding factor in what dog to get, you really would be better off looking for an older dog you can be around for a while before officially adopting it.
Also before you get this dog, find a local groomer. Make sure they will take a doodle. Many places it is hard to find a groomer at all and some refuse doodles because their coats are the worst to groom. Some poodle/poodle mix rescues require this before adopting because people do not understand the reality of doodle coats because of the nonsense breeders spout. .
OMG. Yes. We dogsat a labradoodle. At the end of the week they had to shave the dog because his coat was so matted. He legit had sticks and leaves and shit weaved into his coat from playing with our dog outside and I didn't have the knowledge or desire to deal with it (We were sitting as a favor not a paid job).
I find it funny that everyone wants a doodle, but people aren't getting poodles. Poodles are the real deal. They are smart as shit.
OMG. You're getting a dog to fulfill some kind of perfect family life fantasy or something and I swear to god if you pay $$$$ for some random ass mutt and it does what puppies (and then dogs) do, don't come here posting a million threads asking why the dog just won't stop chewing up your kids toys, why does it keep nipping at my kids, when can I expect it to be potty trained (a week after you bring it home) and then maybe 9 - 18 months later ask how to rehome this dog that you all love so much, but just can't keep.
Your posts remind me a lot of my friend. She got a dog a couple months ago. Was very specific in what she wanted (it was some sort of "hypoallergenic" little white dog...morkie pooh or some shit). She brought it back to the breeder after 2 weeks because it was having accidents and not sleeping through the night. TWO WEEKS.
I'm glad she did returned it sooner than later, but I still feel so bad for that poor dog.
Post by purplepenguin7 on Jan 4, 2023 9:44:36 GMT -5
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be mean and pile on but I agree with TR here. Yes you have researched, read, studied this in and out but all signs point to no and yet you are still determined to get one by all the wrong means.
You seem to have an idyllic picture in your head of what owning a dog will be like but it’s not at all like that. I’m not even sure if anyone in your family actually wants this dog except for in your head.
As much as I am against breeders, this isn’t even about the over priced mutt. I’m afraid you are expecting too much “science” from a puppy (exact weight, temperament, allergenic, etc) that wouldn’t even be guaranteed with a rescue puppy. My brother adopted a “beagle mix” puppy who was expected to be 30-40lbs. He’s now a 70lb goofy oversized hound. They love him of course but he’s not all what they thought they were getting.
I really think you will be better served with a 1-2 year old rescue with an established history.
Editing to add: opposite my brother, my dog was said to be 4-5 months, I think she was closer to a year. 12 years later, she is basically the exact same dog we adopted as a young dog. She is mostly the same size as the day we took her home, she came essentially potty trained, not a huge chewer. All that stayed the same. I know it’s hard to find a rescue (I myself went through hell before I found my dog) but I really think it’s best for you and your situation.
In order to avoid joining the pile on further (though I agree with what PPs are saying 100%), I'm going to answer the questions you originally asked.
-I don't think there's much of a difference between 40-50 lbs as far as being able to pick them up etc. My dogs were/are ~35 and ~45 lbs (but trended towards 40 and 50 lbs at different points in their lives) and I never noticed a difference when needing to pick them up etc.
-I don't do puppies but from what I understand and what I've observed from friends who did have puppies that young, I do think there's a difference between 7 and 9 weeks with structured socialization. The fact that the one breeder lets them go at 7 weeks is a big red flag for me, I don't care if this is how she's done it for the last however many years. I know you said in your state the law says 7 weeks but that doesn't mean they SHOULD leave mom at that age.
Also, I had no idea Australian Labradoodles were a thing so I guess I learned something new today. Looking at the PP about the three breeds mixed, I have to ask-what is your plan if the dog ends up not being hypoallergenic? Labs are pretty high shedding dogs and from my experience with cocker spaniels I feel like they're usually medium to high shedding (but I could be wrong here, I admit my experiences are somewhat limited). Breeder guarantees are no match for genetics when it comes to this stuff and the more breeds you have involved in the mix the more variability you can get. Since allergies are an issue-have you guys looked into a purebred standard poodle? Again, no guarantee they'll be hypoallergenic but I feel like you'd have a better chance there than with any dog that's got a higher shedding breed in their genetic mix. I've seen some top out at around 50 lbs (they just look larger because they're taller and often fluffy). And they're super smart.
Post by pinkpeony08 on Jan 4, 2023 16:50:33 GMT -5
Agree with others that the size will be difficult to predict, but those two sizes aren’t that different. We got our first puppy after only getting 1 yo rescue dogs my whole life. It was so much work. The puppy socialization is key to having a dog that is enjoyable to be around. Definitely read up on this- the 7 week and not socialization is a big red flag. You’ll need to work hard to expose the dog to as many things as you can before a socialization window sort of closes around 12 weeks (I could be off by a few weeks but I think it’s 12) while also being careful bc they can’t be fully vaccinated until a little later. I recommend the pandemic puppy podcast for more information. There are lists of things to expose to (people of all ages, shapes, colors, sizes, types of cars, dogs in all shapes and sizes, garbage trucks, buses, thunder, etc). We got a rescue puppy through the humane society that we learned about from a dog behaviorist who's friend was raising the puppies and said as a result of the combination of things (temperament of prior litter, parents and socialization), they were likely going to be decent family dogs.
Our dog is just starting to settle now at 2 years and even at that, sometimes she is bananas and makes us want to pull our hair out. It definitely requires a team effort at our house- if my husband goes out of town, I have sometimes boarded the dog overnight bc managing everything with 3 kids is just too much with the dog.
Basically, be sure to do your homework and be as prepared as you can be!
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
I’m not touching the breeder etc stuff, but sharing experience with this type of dog.
My mom has an Aussie doodle. She was bonkers as a puppy. She is very sweet and is mostly a nice personal space heater now that she is 3. My mom who is sensitive to dog hair hasn’t had any reaction.
Like many other poodles/doodles she is neurotic and barks at anything that moves on walks.
Make sure to add to your list a shit ton of grooming. She gets matted just by looking at her (if you want the fluffy look). And I don’t think the size difference matters much. You can likely ask for the runt of the litter 🤷🏻♀️
There is no such thing as a reputable in home breeder. Don’t do it.
I think your intent to educate is good because OP is not on the right track but this isn't necessarily true depending on how you are defining it. Both parents shouldn't live in the home, certainly, but if you define a reputable breeder as someone breeding to better established breed standards using show dogs (AKA champion - not just registered) whose lineage is documented and health tested *breeding for sport, not profit* those mother dogs do live in a home setting (although the studs can and should come from anywhere in the country and the world). While some show dogs are an investment, the goal is that they live in a home, even if it's not the owner's home. As a result, some dogs will travel to be bred and insemination may happen at the vet but the pregnancy/puppies still most often takes place in a home setting. That's what is best for the mom and pups and frankly other options (I'm trying to think of what that would be - like a facility where dogs don't live with people and are bred is a mill) would be very concerning. These breeders will have two lists; show homes and pet homes. Not every puppy from a breeding of even the best dogs will be show quality, so the breeders and judges will look at the litter at a certain time of development before puppies go home to determine which ones are good show prospects and which should be altered and live a life as very good life as a pet only. In both cases, there will be a very strict arrangement about spay/neuter or requirements to show.
OP I'm not going to pile on but I think you should really seriously consider the suggestion to foster. My actual biggest concern about your breeders is that neither of them seem to have interviewed you to pick up on what are frankly some major red flags. For ethical breeders, it's not about your ability to pay, and they should be asking for references, your previous pet owning experience, and backgrounding you as well or better than a rescue. Some old school dog people do think imprinting starts at 7 weeks but we got our show dog (now passed) at 12 weeks and our bond was very strong - I believe dogs bond well at any stage. It's not about finding a cute puppy, it's about the dog they will become and people seeking a cute baby is another red bag for breeders of that caliber.
Post by outnumbered on Jan 5, 2023 16:50:22 GMT -5
Have you considered asking the breeder if they have an adult dog up for adoptions. Breeders often adopt out dogs they are no longer using for breeding purposes. You would know the size and if you are reactive to the dog.
I know it has already been said, but please do not get a dog to fulfill some romantic vision about the perfect family experience.
Post by imojoebunny on Jan 5, 2023 20:48:19 GMT -5
I have two ALDs, not Aussie doodles, which is an entirely different dog. My brother has an ALD, too, that I was able to borrow for an extended time to test my allergies before getting one, since I am allergic to many other kinds of "low allergy dogs", like terriers. I would only get a ALD from a breeder that meets all WALA and ALAA standards, especially for health testing. Keep in mind that the size ranges are relatively large. www.wala-labradoodles.org/breed-standard My medium is at the top end of the weight range, at 47 pounds, and I expect my mini, to also be at the top of the mini range, around 30 pounds. My preference is for all breeding dogs to live in guardian homes, and the breeder I choose does this. Do not be in a hurry. Take your time, and pick a breeder and litter that is best for your family. We had to wait 8 months for our last ALD, but he is exactly what we ask for: calm, very trainable, and attentive with his people. No dog is perfect, but I am glad I did a lot of research and found the two we have. I could only have an ALD or a poodle, and my spouse does not like poodles at all, as he had very poorly bred ones growing up. Hope you find a good fit for your family.
I have two ALDs, not Aussie doodles, which is an entirely different dog. My brother has an ALD, too, that I was able to borrow for an extended time to test my allergies before getting one, since I am allergic to many other kinds of "low allergy dogs", like terriers. I would only get a ALD from a breeder that meets all WALA and ALAA standards, especially for health testing. Keep in mind that the size ranges are relatively large. www.wala-labradoodles.org/breed-standard My medium is at the top end of the weight range, at 47 pounds, and I expect my mini, to also be at the top of the mini range, around 30 pounds. My preference is for all breeding dogs to live in guardian homes, and the breeder I choose does this. Do not be in a hurry. Take your time, and pick a breeder and litter that is best for your family. We had to wait 8 months for our last ALD, but he is exactly what we ask for: calm, very trainable, and attentive with his people. No dog is perfect, but I am glad I did a lot of research and found the two we have. I could only have an ALD or a poodle, and my spouse does not like poodles at all, as he had very poorly bred ones growing up. Hope you find a good fit for your family.
I have two ALDs, not Aussie doodles, which is an entirely different dog. My brother has an ALD, too, that I was able to borrow for an extended time to test my allergies before getting one, since I am allergic to many other kinds of "low allergy dogs", like terriers. I would only get a ALD from a breeder that meets all WALA and ALAA standards, especially for health testing. Keep in mind that the size ranges are relatively large. www.wala-labradoodles.org/breed-standard My medium is at the top end of the weight range, at 47 pounds, and I expect my mini, to also be at the top of the mini range, around 30 pounds. My preference is for all breeding dogs to live in guardian homes, and the breeder I choose does this. Do not be in a hurry. Take your time, and pick a breeder and litter that is best for your family. We had to wait 8 months for our last ALD, but he is exactly what we ask for: calm, very trainable, and attentive with his people. No dog is perfect, but I am glad I did a lot of research and found the two we have. I could only have an ALD or a poodle, and my spouse does not like poodles at all, as he had very poorly bred ones growing up. Hope you find a good fit for your family.
Post by DarcyLongfellow on Jan 6, 2023 12:02:53 GMT -5
I'm sure it's hard to hear a thread of people disagreeing with you. I understand wanting a puppy!
Just a few thoughts.
First, if you aren't up for fostering, how about watching a friend's dog for a weekend when they're out of town? It will at least give you an idea of how a dog would work with your family.
Second, google what to look for in a reputable breeder. If you decide to get a dog from a breeder, do not use a breeder who doesn't meet the criteria. Things like: not allowing dogs to go to their new home until 12 weeks, interviewing potential new owners - and not allowing just anyone to adopt a dog, all dogs in a litter should be spoken for immediately because the breeder has a waiting list - there should never be a couple dogs "left" from a litter, the mom and dad should not both be owned by the same breeder, both mom and dad should be champions.
Third, it's so easy to get caught up in differences like a 30 pound dog vs a 50 pound dog before you actually have the dog. Going in person to spend time with dogs, visiting the breeders' homes *with* your whole family, and just generally being exposed more to your chosen breed will all help you.
Finally, even if you feel strongly about using a breeder, I'd recommend visiting or volunteering at your local dog shelter. It will help you understand more of what you're looking for in a dog.