@@@ ban on gas stoves being considered

[fernweh]

Data shows that they may cause asthma in children.

www.yahoo.com/news/federal-agency-considers-ban-on-gas-stoves-following-report-linking-them-to-childhood-asthma-213057325.html

I’m not saying this shouldn’t be done - but it gives me a lot of feeling that they will take these steps to protect the health of children and do nothing to protect the lives of children against gun violence.

[TR]

The article makes it sound like it affects kids in the home so if I don't have kids, can I keep my gas stove?

[kath16]

i mean... i get the intent here, but i genuinely don't understand how this plays out in real life. what do i do with my gas stove? how do i afford an electric one? what about my gas furnace?



@@@
and of course i want to do right by kids but where does it stop? candles/air fresheners/diffusers? 

ETA: they are also seemingly stating with certainty that they are responsible for a specific number of asthma cases. how can they know that for sure??

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2023 10:05:35 GMT -5 kath16 said:

i mean... i get the intent here, but i genuinely don't understand how this plays out in real life. what do i do with my gas stove? how do i afford an electric one? what about my gas furnace?



@@@
and of course i want to do right by kids but where does it stop?

ETA: they are also seemingly stating with certainty that they are responsible for a specific number of asthma cases. how can they know that for sure??

Gas is going to become prohibitively expensive in the next 5 years or so. There's going to be more regulation on how it is acquired, and in some places it's going to be outright banned. My advice to everyone is to start replacing anything gas you have in your home as you can, and the sooner the better.

Natural gas is just so very bad for the environment, and it's one of those things that has got to go.

[pixy0stix]

Also, this isn't new news. Gas ranges are bad for everyone, not just kids. I say this as someone who is going to be very sad to give up her gas range when the time comes.

[kath16]

i promise i'm not trying to be argumentative.

going from gas to electric would cost me several thousand dollars just for my stove and oven. and we just replaced our furnace in an urgent fashion when the old one died during a cold snap to the tune of 15% of my gross annual income and i don't know what we'll do if we have to replace it again in the next several years.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2023 10:17:37 GMT -5 kath16 said:

i promise i'm not trying to be argumentative.

going from gas to electric would cost me several thousand dollars just for my stove and oven. and we just replaced our furnace in an urgent fashion when the old one died during a cold snap to the tune of 15% of my gross annual income and i don't know what we'll do if we have to replace it again in the next several years.

Yes. At some point you're going to have to do it, so better budget for it. FWIW, the Feds are starting to crank out tax credits to be able to replace items such as furnaces. For heat pumps you can get a $7k credit.

(And yes, before anyone states the obvious, this is really going to hurt people. That doesn't change the fact that it's going to happen, and far sooner than people want it to.)

ETA: Cautionary tale - if anyone has to replace their furnace DO NOT get another gas one. It's going to have to be electric, or else you're going to hurt in several ways from your utility bill to maybe having to replace it way before it's life cycle.

[karinothing]

I HATE electric stoves with a passion. This is depressing.

Interesting about the furnace. I will make sure to look into that when ours dies one day. Right now I feel like gas is so much cheaper than electricity for us, but i haven't actually compared it other than my utilities bills are lower in the winter than the summer.

[bee20]

My parents got a big utility rebate a decade or two ago to convert everything to gas from electric. It was cleaner and more efficient.

ETA:

To add more to the conversation, my area has overhead powerlines but buried gas lines, and we lose power several times a year.  I plan on being out for several days when it happens, the longest outage being 8 days.  Gas has been crucial to my house being habitable, being able to cook, heat, and have hot water for bathing.  Is the answer subsidizing battery packs?

[shauni27]

Jan 10, 2023 10:12:51 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Also, this isn't new news. Gas ranges are bad for everyone, not just kids. I say this as someone who is going to be very sad to give up her gas range when the time comes.

This makes me feel better about our move to our new house that had an electric stove. I was PISSED but now I am used to it and am just ahead of the curve

[scm1011]

Jan 10, 2023 10:25:37 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I HATE electric stoves with a passion. This is depressing.

Interesting about the furnace. I will make sure to look into that when ours dies one day. Right now I feel like gas is so much cheaper than electricity for us, but i haven't actually compared it other than my utilities bills are lower in the winter than the summer.

I have both (gas furnace and ductless electric ceiling cassettes installed last year). Gas is definitely still cheaper, but it is expected to flip flop in the near future (<5 years). I keep our gas on at a low level (~62 in winter during the day) and turn on the electric in the rooms we utilize frequently (living room, my office) to bring the temp up to a more comfortable level.

[penguingrrl]

Ugh, I just redid our HVAC in October, converting from oil powered radiator system (the system kept springing homes in pipes and was no longer salvageable) to a 2-zone gas system. 5 different companies bid the project and said electric “wasn’t a viable option in the NJ climate.” (And once all 5 companies said it I believed them). I also had an awful experience with heat pump systems wherein at my office they failed if it stayed below freezing for a few days in a row, so we would have to work from home for weeks on end because our office had no heat. They gave me the choice of keep the oil tanks or use gas.

And I loath cooking on electric. Half of our rentals had electric stoves and they were all horrendous to cook on.

[steamboat185]

Jan 10, 2023 10:25:37 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I HATE electric stoves with a passion. This is depressing.

Interesting about the furnace. I will make sure to look into that when ours dies one day. Right now I feel like gas is so much cheaper than electricity for us, but i haven't actually compared it other than my utilities bills are lower in the winter than the summer.

Induction is awesome. We’ve had ours for 9ish years and love it. Traditional electric burners are a pain, but our induction is so easy to clean and use. I think the only thing we have an issue with is charring peppers and then we use the grill. Cooking by numbers takes a bit to get used too, but then it is easier and just as controlable as gas.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2023 10:46:58 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Ugh, I just redid our HVAC in October, converting from oil powered radiator system (the system kept springing homes in pipes and was no longer salvageable) to a 2-zone gas system. 5 different companies bid the project and said electric “wasn’t a viable option in the NJ climate.” (And once all 5 companies said it I believed them). I also had an awful experience with heat pump systems wherein at my office they failed if it stayed below freezing for a few days in a row, so we would have to work from home for weeks on end because our office had no heat. They gave me the choice of keep the oil tanks or use gas.

And I loath cooking on electric. Half of our rentals had electric stoves and they were all horrendous to cook on.

Sorry they all lied to you.

[penguingrrl]

Jan 10, 2023 10:51:22 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:46:58 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Ugh, I just redid our HVAC in October, converting from oil powered radiator system (the system kept springing homes in pipes and was no longer salvageable) to a 2-zone gas system. 5 different companies bid the project and said electric “wasn’t a viable option in the NJ climate.” (And once all 5 companies said it I believed them). I also had an awful experience with heat pump systems wherein at my office they failed if it stayed below freezing for a few days in a row, so we would have to work from home for weeks on end because our office had no heat. They gave me the choice of keep the oil tanks or use gas.

And I loath cooking on electric. Half of our rentals had electric stoves and they were all horrendous to cook on.

Sorry they all lied to you.

Thanks, it’s super frustrating because we even asked each of them, figuring some would be honest. Too late to change it now.

[fortnightlily]

I would expect the natural gas lobby to remain more influential on policymakers than those advocating for the environment or people's health.... if anything changes something on a mass scale it's going to be because of supply and price.

We've gotten a new gas burning stove and a new gas furnace since buying our house 10 years ago, so I don't see us "having" to replace those anytime soon. We are supposed to get solar panels sometime this year (we're in a backlog) though and should be producing slightly over our current energy usage.

I think in more like 10-15 years we'll be looking at a bigger change to accommodate an electric vehicle we can charge at home and some other transitions, too.

[AJL]

During Winterpocaplypse, when we lost power for five days, having a gas stove was the ONLY thing that kept us warm. We were able to warm food and water. We don't have a fire place. We had no other way to make heat. Our inside temp got to 50 degrees. I never appreciated having a gas stove more than at that moment. 

[pixy0stix]

I have a lot of information about this, and not a lot of time today. I'd encourage everyone to do a bit of googling today. There's a plethora of information out there about how gas is currently being phased out, and why it needs to happen immediately. None of the anecdotes are going to change this. It's happening, it needs to happen, and it will happen.

[audette]

From last fall. Yeah, it's only two ranges, but the results speak volumes.
www.consumerreports.org/appliances/indoor-air-quality/is-your-gas-range-a-health-risk-a6971504915/

[pixy0stix]

We had a thread about this in 2021 - pandce.proboards.com/thread/629174/gas-stove-health-climate-change

[scm1011]

Jan 10, 2023 10:51:22 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:46:58 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Ugh, I just redid our HVAC in October, converting from oil powered radiator system (the system kept springing homes in pipes and was no longer salvageable) to a 2-zone gas system. 5 different companies bid the project and said electric “wasn’t a viable option in the NJ climate.” (And once all 5 companies said it I believed them). I also had an awful experience with heat pump systems wherein at my office they failed if it stayed below freezing for a few days in a row, so we would have to work from home for weeks on end because our office had no heat. They gave me the choice of keep the oil tanks or use gas.

And I loath cooking on electric. Half of our rentals had electric stoves and they were all horrendous to cook on.

Sorry they all lied to you.

For sure. I'm in MA and its a non-issue here (I had electric heat installed last year). 

[mrsslocombe]

God this will be a nightmare in NYC, something like 80%+ of stoves are gas here (they did recently ban gas heating/stoves from new construction starting in 2027).

I live in a 16 story building with gas cooking and I believe our boiler is gas powered (steam heat). I'm not even sure if my CO-OP currently allows you to convert to electric stoves. We are going to be gutting our kitchen in 2-3 years, so I hopefully it's possible by then.

[atarianna]

Do we think this will apply to gas fireplaces as well? If my stove is bad, isn’t the (ventless design) fireplace just as bad, if not worse?

We have a gas furnace for backup/emergency heat but are able to use our heat pump effectively down to 28°. Using this system, we’ve been able to maximize efficiency as best we could baring utilizing a geothermal system.

[ny96]

I think I mentioned this on the other thread, but the red light on our air purifier (indicating dirty air) always goes on when we have our gas burners on, and our air purifier is about 100ft away from the stove, in a different room.

[Patsy Baloney]

Thanks to everyone sharing information on the electric/gas flip-flop. We’re a mostly electric home, gas furnace and water heater, but I just simply haven’t been paying attention to this topic. This is great knowledge to have, prepare and be ready for.

[heygrey]

I know our gas fireplace is bad. We noticed a filmy grey soot on the underside of the white mantle a few months after we moved in two years ago. We shut off the pilot light so we can’t use the fireplace at all and the film hasn’t returned. I can’t imagine what that did to our lungs when we were breathing it in.

I was really bummed when we bought our house that has a gas line, but didn’t have a gas stove. I’ve learned to like my new stove and we are now planning to replace the fireplace and furnace soonish. The fireplace probably before next winter and the furnace when it dies. It’s 13 years old so I expect a few more years, but not many.

The Canadian government has started taxing gas appliances at 12% to dissuade people from buying them. With the additional provincial tax they are 17% in BC. No thanks!

[noodleoo]

SHIT. Our heat, stove and dryer are gas. I actually hate gas stoves, but to add an electric outlet for the stove would be very expensive. We just replaced our gas stove about 2 years ago. I guess I should start saving/planning for switching to electric. Or just move LOL.

[shortstax]

I watched this video on gas stoves last week and it surprised me the level of “pollution” they cause within the air quality of the home: m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pbZlqyXJ4

[sunshineandpinot]

Jan 10, 2023 10:50:37 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:25:37 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I HATE electric stoves with a passion. This is depressing.

Interesting about the furnace. I will make sure to look into that when ours dies one day. Right now I feel like gas is so much cheaper than electricity for us, but i haven't actually compared it other than my utilities bills are lower in the winter than the summer.

Induction is awesome. We’ve had ours for 9ish years and love it. Traditional electric burners are a pain, but our induction is so easy to clean and use. I think the only thing we have an issue with is charring peppers and then we use the grill. Cooking by numbers takes a bit to get used too, but then it is easier and just as controlable as gas.

+1. I have enjoyed my induction so much and I formally had gas. I will never not have induction if I can help it. 

[basilosaurus]

I hear what you're saying, pixy, and you've been beating this drum for awhile. But as a renter nearly all my adult life I simply don't see landlords being proactive and instead further pricing people out as they pass along costs while probably collecting incentives.

I also grew up where power went out daily. I learned how to manually start a gas stove probably too young. But we were a place neighbors could cook. Everyone knew who had gas stoves, and it was communal. Thankfully we didn't have to worry about boil water but we did have to manually draw water (this is why, I was told, people have kids). And no ac so always open windows

I'd hate to be in a large state like Texas with their horrible electric issues where gas may literally be life or death.

I'm not saying it doesn't have to happen. But I've paid a shitton of rent to people who are better classified as slumlords given how little they called about anything. Which makes me think if I had those issues in a fairly high priced unit what chance do others have? People in true dire straights with far bigger complaints? because I could just go out to eat (and hated that shitty Mr chef oven that couldn't keep temp, had no window or clock). I couldn't even make ramen without power.

Once again, put it on the lowest end user and ignore the numerous bigger issues in the way.

I'm happy with my induction hotplate and counter halogen oven now. Mostly

But do you know how much an actual induction stovetop is?!