@Florida bans pilot of new AP AA Studies Course

[AAM2012]

Feb 1, 2023 16:07:34 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

I hope whoever teaches this class focuses on every single "optional" topic that used to be required 🤬

It’s Florida…so…not likely.

[imimahoney]

Feb 4, 2023 19:36:38 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Feb 1, 2023 16:07:34 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

I hope whoever teaches this class focuses on every single "optional" topic that used to be required 🤬

It’s Florida…so…not likely.

It's a nationwide pilot of the class, it will be taught in every state (or close to it).

[AAM2012]

Feb 4, 2023 20:10:20 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

Feb 4, 2023 19:36:38 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

It’s Florida…so…not likely.

It's a nationwide pilot of the class, it will be taught in every state (or close to it).

Ah sorry totally missed that component. Im guessing it’ll vary by state and county.

[pixy0stix]

Desantis is now threatening to ban AP - www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/02/14/desantis-florida-ap-classes-college-board/

I bet they're so glad they caved to his pressure now. For people who deal in academics, they sure haven't learned how to deal with a dictator.

[msmerymac]

Republicans love the poorly educated. 

[Michelle]

Feb 15, 2023 9:23:01 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Desantis is now threatening to ban AP - www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/02/14/desantis-florida-ap-classes-college-board/

I bet they're so glad they caved to his pressure now. For people who deal in academics, they sure haven't learned how to deal with a dictator.

"More than 199,000 Florida students enrolled in AP classes in 2020-21. About 366,000 AP tests were given in Florida in 2021, more than in any other state except Texas (527,000) and California (683,000)."

Hopefully a fair amount of his base will start calling him on his BS now. Dual credit usually only works if you're going to college in your same state. I mean, FSU is popular, but most A/P kids don't want to be restricted to only schools in their state. Heck, a bunch of floridians try to go to TAMU.

[Michelle]

of course from the WAPO article, he mentions alternatives like IB programs. Um, read the IB curriculum. You'll think it's "woke," dumbass.

[bronxgirl]

Feb 15, 2023 9:23:01 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Desantis is now threatening to ban AP - www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/02/14/desantis-florida-ap-classes-college-board/

I bet they're so glad they caved to his pressure now. For people who deal in academics, they sure haven't learned how to deal with a dictator.

Yes, exactly!! How can you offer advanced history and government classes without understanding that appeasement never works.

[notsopicky]

Feb 15, 2023 17:30:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

of course from the WAPO article, he mentions alternatives like IB programs. Um, read the IB curriculum. You'll think it's "woke," dumbass.

I am an IB Coordinator. If he thinks AP is "woke" (which is just a racist/homophobic slur at this point).....dammmmmmmmn, he's in for a BIG FUCKING SURPRISE! 

[clairebear]

Feb 15, 2023 20:38:00 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

Feb 15, 2023 17:30:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

of course from the WAPO article, he mentions alternatives like IB programs. Um, read the IB curriculum. You'll think it's "woke," dumbass.

I am an IB Coordinator. If he thinks AP is "woke" (which is just a racist/homophobic slur at this point).....dammmmmmmmn, he's in for a BIG FUCKING SURPRISE! 

So how easy or hard is it for a high school to swap from AP to IB? AP classes are huge in my school district (we have 110k students county wide where I live in Florida), but I belive only one high school offers IB. I'm concerned he really is going to try to pull AP classes. 

[basilosaurus]

IB was only at one school in my large Florida district. It was their plan to "fix" a "failing" school. At the time if a schooled failed 2 years in a row students could go to another school in the district, so after 1 fail they'd bring in specialty programs to raise the averages rather than address there issues.

My friend got an awesome education at her 95% white ib program at the 98% black school that had a 30% graduation rate. Thanks, jeb.

[notsopicky]

Feb 15, 2023 20:54:14 GMT -5 clairebear said:

Feb 15, 2023 20:38:00 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

I am an IB Coordinator. If he thinks AP is "woke" (which is just a racist/homophobic slur at this point).....dammmmmmmmn, he's in for a BIG FUCKING SURPRISE! 

So how easy or hard is it for a high school to swap from AP to IB? AP classes are huge in my school district (we have 110k students county wide where I live in Florida), but I belive only one high school offers IB. I'm concerned he really is going to try to pull AP classes. 

I'd say pretty hard. You have to go through what they call an authorization process to be named an IB school, which is similar to the subsequent evaluation period every 5 years thereafter. You basically have to build your school culture and protocols from the ground up according to their educational model/best practices. Staffing, instructional frameworks, assessment, policies, student scheduling, school development plans--those are the big buckets. And that's just for middle school. High schools are even more complex. 

It is a big undertaking. Big. It seems like he thinks he can add an IB course here and there to replace AP. That is 100000% not how it works. At all. It's a holistic program that takes years to build and a whole school (perhaps even system) effort & mindset to maintain. 

[clairebear]

Feb 16, 2023 5:31:09 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

Feb 15, 2023 20:54:14 GMT -5 clairebear said:

So how easy or hard is it for a high school to swap from AP to IB? AP classes are huge in my school district (we have 110k students county wide where I live in Florida), but I belive only one high school offers IB. I'm concerned he really is going to try to pull AP classes. 

I'd say pretty hard. You have to go through what they call an authorization process to be named an IB school, which is similar to the subsequent evaluation period every 5 years thereafter. You basically have to build your school culture and protocols from the ground up according to their educational model/best practices. Staffing, instructional frameworks, assessment, policies, student scheduling, school development plans--those are the big buckets. And that's just for middle school. High schools are even more complex. 

It is a big undertaking. Big. It seems like he thinks he can add an IB course here and there to replace AP. That is 100000% not how it works. At all. It's a holistic program that takes years to build and a whole school (perhaps even system) effort & mindset to maintain. 

So if he gets rid of AP classes Florida students are screwed?? Could he even do that? I imagine the Florida board of Education would have to agree and sign off on this? 

[Jalapeñomel]

Feb 16, 2023 8:40:48 GMT -5 clairebear said:

Feb 16, 2023 5:31:09 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

I'd say pretty hard. You have to go through what they call an authorization process to be named an IB school, which is similar to the subsequent evaluation period every 5 years thereafter. You basically have to build your school culture and protocols from the ground up according to their educational model/best practices. Staffing, instructional frameworks, assessment, policies, student scheduling, school development plans--those are the big buckets. And that's just for middle school. High schools are even more complex. 

It is a big undertaking. Big. It seems like he thinks he can add an IB course here and there to replace AP. That is 100000% not how it works. At all. It's a holistic program that takes years to build and a whole school (perhaps even system) effort & mindset to maintain. 

So if he gets rid of AP classes Florida students are screwed?? Could he even do that? I imagine the Florida board of Education would have to agree and sign off on this? 

Screwed how? There are plenty of schools that don’t offer AP courses, and kids get a well rounded, great high school educations, get into college and go off to do great things.

If you’re concerned about credit, dual credit courses with local CCs is a better choice over APs for most students anyway, so high schools can look into offering these instead.

I think college board is problematic in a lot of ways, so if this forces school to really evaluate how much they support them, that’s not a bad thing.

Don’t get me wrong, the governor banning classes based on his racism is horrible, so I don’t want these two thought to become conflated.

[formerlyak]

clairebear if you mean in terms of college admissions, schools have to submit a profile to colleges. It tells colleges how many AP and honors classes are offered, the average number of AP and honors classes their students take and the pass rate. Students are evaluated for college admissions against kids from similar schools. This is in place to help make it so a kid who goes to a school with no AP classes so they took no AP classes isn’t looked at less favorably than a kid who goes to a school that offers 15 AP classes.

[clairebear]

Feb 16, 2023 8:56:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Feb 16, 2023 8:40:48 GMT -5 clairebear said:

So if he gets rid of AP classes Florida students are screwed?? Could he even do that? I imagine the Florida board of Education would have to agree and sign off on this? 

Screwed how? There are plenty of schools that don’t offer AP courses, and kids get a well rounded, great high school educations, get into college and go off to do great things.

If you’re concerned about credit, dual credit courses with local CCs is a better choice over APs for most students anyway, so high schools can look into offering these instead.

I think college board is problematic in a lot of ways, so if this forces school to really evaluate how much they support them, that’s not a bad thing.

Don’t get me wrong, the governor banning classes based on his racism is horrible, so I don’t want these two thought to become conflated.

I went to a high school that didn't have AP classes and offered dual enrollment instead, so I totally agree that you can be a well rounded high school student without AP classes.  My concern would be that this is being forced on the state by one person rather than a collective wish from the majority of stakeholders in the education system. Also the lack of advanced placement courses and not being as competive for college admissions (although formerlyak thankfully pointed out that its the case). 

[cmeon]

Feb 16, 2023 8:56:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Feb 16, 2023 8:40:48 GMT -5 clairebear said:

So if he gets rid of AP classes Florida students are screwed?? Could he even do that? I imagine the Florida board of Education would have to agree and sign off on this? 

Screwed how? There are plenty of schools that don’t offer AP courses, and kids get a well rounded, great high school educations, get into college and go off to do great things.

If you’re concerned about credit, dual credit courses with local CCs is a better choice over APs for most students anyway, so high schools can look into offering these instead.

I think college board is problematic in a lot of ways, so if this forces school to really evaluate how much they support them, that’s not a bad thing.

Don’t get me wrong, the governor banning classes based on his racism is horrible, so I don’t want these two thought to become conflated.

No, dual credit has its own issues. We are 50 minutes away from our cc (and classes have to be taken on campus), they only offer 10 classes to HSers (none match AP level content- no computer science, no calc or calc based physics), and frankly- those credits are worthless to kids going out of state. Most of our public HSs schools don't have alternatives to AP courses (no honors physics- they have even replaced honors pre-calc with the AP class for next year). We have a state scholarship (the Benaquisto) that's based solely on students being a NMF (which obviously requires a PSAT score).

This will absolutely fuck over public school kids in FL.

[mcppalmbeach]

Feb 16, 2023 10:15:52 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Feb 16, 2023 8:56:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Screwed how? There are plenty of schools that don’t offer AP courses, and kids get a well rounded, great high school educations, get into college and go off to do great things.

If you’re concerned about credit, dual credit courses with local CCs is a better choice over APs for most students anyway, so high schools can look into offering these instead.

I think college board is problematic in a lot of ways, so if this forces school to really evaluate how much they support them, that’s not a bad thing.

Don’t get me wrong, the governor banning classes based on his racism is horrible, so I don’t want these two thought to become conflated.

No, dual credit has its own issues. We are 50 minutes away from our cc (and classes have to be taken on campus), they only offer 10 classes to HSers (none match AP level content- no computer science, no calc or calc based physics), and frankly- those credits are worthless to kids going out of state. Most of our public HSs schools don't have alternatives to AP courses (no honors physics- they have even replaced honors pre-calc with the AP class for next year). We have a state scholarship (the Benaquisto) that's based solely on students being a NMF (which obviously requires a PSAT score).

This will absolutely fuck over public school kids in FL.

This is just observational, but as we know more kids going through all of the above - ib, ap, AICE and dual enrollment - ap classes seem to offer more enrichment than the entry level “101” classes at our local community college. So as someone who is more interested in college readiness and critical thinking than course credit, I want my student to have access to these classes. We do have both AICE and IB here as well, but there are limitations there as well.

[clairebear]

Feb 16, 2023 10:27:56 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

Feb 16, 2023 10:15:52 GMT -5 cmeon said:

No, dual credit has its own issues. We are 50 minutes away from our cc (and classes have to be taken on campus), they only offer 10 classes to HSers (none match AP level content- no computer science, no calc or calc based physics), and frankly- those credits are worthless to kids going out of state. Most of our public HSs schools don't have alternatives to AP courses (no honors physics- they have even replaced honors pre-calc with the AP class for next year). We have a state scholarship (the Benaquisto) that's based solely on students being a NMF (which obviously requires a PSAT score).

This will absolutely fuck over public school kids in FL.

This is just observational, but as we know more kids going through all of the above - ib, ap, AICE and dual enrollment - ap classes seem to offer more enrichment than the entry level “101” classes at our local community college. So as someone who is more interested in college readiness and critical thinking than course credit, I want my student to have access to these classes. We do have both AICE and IB here as well, but there are limitations there as well.

I did dual enrollment starting in 9th grade and honestly found the classes ridiculously easy. I wasn't a genius kid, but what 14.5 year old should be getting As in college classes? My husband who did AP classes was much more challenged and better prepared for a 4 year university than I was. Also I wouldn't think it would be easy to just swap all high schoolers from AP to dual enrollment. Right now the only dual enrollment offered in my county is if you go to a charter school which I think is about 100 high schools and very hard to get into. Otherwise you take AP classes at your public high school, or maybe have access to 1-3 college classes. I wouldn't think the local community college is ready for an influx of high schools wanting dual enrollment if AP is pulled. 

[pixy0stix]

If anything is going to rile (white) people up (not the blatant racism, or the lgbtq+ discrimination and outright harm), it will be fucking with white children's overall education. Which is sad that it's going to take this for people to start doing something against him.

[cmeon]

This won't do a fucking thing. FLs public schools are not full of "white people", and his base is made up of people who see no reason to invest in schools or FL children.

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 16, 2023 10:47:12 GMT -5 cmeon said:

This won't do a fucking thing. FLs public schools are not full of "white people", and his base is made up of people who see no reason to invest in schools or FL children.

But don't private schools offer AP classes down there?

[cmeon]

Feb 16, 2023 10:52:17 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Feb 16, 2023 10:47:12 GMT -5 cmeon said:

This won't do a fucking thing. FLs public schools are not full of "white people", and his base is made up of people who see no reason to invest in schools or FL children.

But don't private schools offer AP classes down there?

Yes, and they won't be touched (this is all about public schools).

[Jalapeñomel]

Feb 16, 2023 10:36:01 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

If anything is going to rile (white) people up (not the blatant racism, or the lgbtq+ discrimination and outright harm), it will be fucking with white children's overall education. Which is sad that it's going to take this for people to start doing something against him.

Ain't this the truth. 


I teach AP chemistry. The fact that my students cry over this exam (and their other APs), as if their whole lives are measured on how well they do on these standardized exams is soul crushing. And the fact that parents push push push push these classes even if their children aren't ready, don't need it, or whatever is hugely problematic. #NotThePoint

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 16, 2023 11:01:29 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Feb 16, 2023 10:52:17 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

But don't private schools offer AP classes down there?

Yes, and they won't be touched (this is all about public schools).

Hmmmm, I know at least in NY the private schools can't just operate carte-blanche and lots of state regulations impact them too. I just assumed DeSantis was looking to get rid of AP in Florida entirely (and could do that). If private schools can still have it, then yeah, I agree with your take.  

[basilosaurus]

Feb 16, 2023 10:52:17 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Feb 16, 2023 10:47:12 GMT -5 cmeon said:

This won't do a fucking thing. FLs public schools are not full of "white people", and his base is made up of people who see no reason to invest in schools or FL children.

But don't private schools offer AP classes down there?

Yes. I was private, secular, and had way more ap options available than any of my friends in public. The best high public in the district has less than half what my smaller school offered. Yet another way Florida fucks students without such privilege.

But as far as mentioned above, the years it takes to create in, at least in my district, it literally happened in a single year for the program my bff attended. That was decades ago, so I'm sure they have a template by this point.

[cmeon]

Feb 16, 2023 11:09:40 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Feb 16, 2023 11:01:29 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Yes, and they won't be touched (this is all about public schools).

Hmmmm, I know at least in NY the private schools can't just operate carte-blanche and lots of state regulations impact them too. I just assumed DeSantis was looking to get rid of AP in Florida entirely (and could do that). If private schools can still have it, then yeah, I agree with your take.  

Yeah, private schools have next to no regulation in Florida. They will still have AP courses. Less than 40 percent of public school kids in FL are white, and the number falls annually.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 16, 2023 10:47:12 GMT -5 cmeon said:

This won't do a fucking thing. FLs public schools are not full of "white people", and his base is made up of people who see no reason to invest in schools or FL children.

This is not what history has taught us, but ok. In general, what riles up the white people, particularly white women, is the issue of education. This has nothing to do with his base, either. There are plenty of dems that are just going along doing their thing, not making much noise, that this is going to shake up.

Current public school demographics: Excel file LINK compiled by the FL Dept. of Education

Also per the FL DOE, only 12.8% of kids are in private schools: www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7562/urlt/PS-AnnualReport2022.pdf

[cmeon]

Feb 16, 2023 11:21:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Feb 16, 2023 10:47:12 GMT -5 cmeon said:

This won't do a fucking thing. FLs public schools are not full of "white people", and his base is made up of people who see no reason to invest in schools or FL children.

This is not what history has taught us, but ok. In general, what riles up the white people, particularly white women, is the issue of education. This has nothing to do with his base, either. There are plenty of dems that are just going along doing their thing, not making much noise, that this is going to shake up.

Current public school demographics: Excel file LINK compiled by the FL Dept. of Education

Also per the FL DOE, only 12.8% of kids are in private schools: www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7562/urlt/PS-AnnualReport2022.pdf

I mean, I hope you're right. It just seems like it all either rolls off his back or makes people start cheering for "the best governor ever", so I'm not so sure.

I did get emails back from both my GOP state rep and senator's office on this topic, and both replies were sympathetic- which is just unheard of (I usually don't even rate a canned reply)- so I guess there may be more noise out there than I can hear.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 16, 2023 13:36:37 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Feb 16, 2023 11:21:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

This is not what history has taught us, but ok. In general, what riles up the white people, particularly white women, is the issue of education. This has nothing to do with his base, either. There are plenty of dems that are just going along doing their thing, not making much noise, that this is going to shake up.

Current public school demographics: Excel file LINK compiled by the FL Dept. of Education

Also per the FL DOE, only 12.8% of kids are in private schools: www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7562/urlt/PS-AnnualReport2022.pdf

I mean, I hope you're right. It just seems like it all either rolls off his back or makes people start cheering for "the best governor ever", so I'm not so sure.

I did get emails back from both my GOP state rep and senator's office on this topic, and both replies were sympathetic- which is just unheard of (I usually don't even rate a canned reply)- so I guess there may be more noise out there than I can hear.

If we step back and look at the even larger picture that he's thinking of doing this and then running in 2024... it'll make him a dead duck in water. It's a huge misstep for him. There's no way the rest of the country, even if FL decides to let it slide, will let him mess with their precious' college prospects. If it wouldn't fuck over so many people, I would want him to try, because that'll just motivate a whole other segment of people who wouldn't necessarily vote to come to the polls.