ADHD kids with sleep problems?

[redheadbaker]

Update: my kid is officially 5 feet tall 😳

His doctor ok'd using melatonin nightly.

[lilac05]

I hope you have success with the melatonin!

Sometimes all of the conventional sleep hygiene rules don’t apply to people with ADHD. That may be happening with your son if you’ve tried everything else without success. I can follow all of the recommendations for calming before bed and still get in bed and lay there for HOURS with my mind racing and bouncing, and frustration/anxiety rising. Or I can do everything wrong and fall right asleep. Right now, what works for me is falling asleep with my big light on. It’s like I’m able to trick my brain into thinking that it doesn’t have to sleep, and that removes all of the stress and frustration, and I fall right asleep. (My H turns off the light later.) My son who I suspect has ADHD is similar. My Apple Watch says I’m still getting into good sleep cycles quickly. Sometimes turning the TV on will do the same thing. Oddly enough, it’s most successful when it’s something I really want to watch. My son started swim team, and gets home from practice every night at 8:30, and that has helped, too.

I know it sounds crazy to people who don’t have ADHD brains, but after decades of fighting sleep and often getting 3-4 hours of sleep a night, I’ve realized that breaking every sleep rule was the key to my success…and I’ve learned I’m not alone.

[penguingrrl]

Feb 8, 2023 11:35:10 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I hope you have success with the melatonin!

Sometimes all of the conventional sleep hygiene rules don’t apply to people with ADHD. That may be happening with your son if you’ve tried everything else without success. I can follow all of the recommendations for calming before bed and still get in bed and lay there for HOURS with my mind racing and bouncing, and frustration/anxiety rising. Or I can do everything wrong and fall right asleep. Right now, what works for me is falling asleep with my big light on. It’s like I’m able to trick my brain into thinking that it doesn’t have to sleep, and that removes all of the stress and frustration, and I fall right asleep. (My H turns off the light later.) My son who I suspect has ADHD is similar. My Apple Watch says I’m still getting into good sleep cycles quickly. Sometimes turning the TV on will do the same thing. Oddly enough, it’s most successful when it’s something I really want to watch. My son started swim team, and gets home from practice every night at 8:30, and that has helped, too.

I know it sounds crazy to people who don’t have ADHD brains, but after decades of fighting sleep and often getting 3-4 hours of sleep a night, I’ve realized that breaking every sleep rule was the key to my success…and I’ve learned I’m not alone.

I’m so glad to read this. My 13 year old who is autistic with ADHD needs light and a low level of sound to sleep and we had a sleep doctor this week absolutely shame us for it. I don’t have ADHD (that I know of) and haven’t been able to sleep in a quiet room since I was a teenager.

[mrsGreeko]

Feb 8, 2023 11:35:10 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I hope you have success with the melatonin!

Sometimes all of the conventional sleep hygiene rules don’t apply to people with ADHD. That may be happening with your son if you’ve tried everything else without success. I can follow all of the recommendations for calming before bed and still get in bed and lay there for HOURS with my mind racing and bouncing, and frustration/anxiety rising. Or I can do everything wrong and fall right asleep. Right now, what works for me is falling asleep with my big light on. It’s like I’m able to trick my brain into thinking that it doesn’t have to sleep, and that removes all of the stress and frustration, and I fall right asleep. (My H turns off the light later.) My son who I suspect has ADHD is similar. My Apple Watch says I’m still getting into good sleep cycles quickly. Sometimes turning the TV on will do the same thing. Oddly enough, it’s most successful when it’s something I really want to watch. My son started swim team, and gets home from practice every night at 8:30, and that has helped, too.

I know it sounds crazy to people who don’t have ADHD brains, but after decades of fighting sleep and often getting 3-4 hours of sleep a night, I’ve realized that breaking every sleep rule was the key to my success…and I’ve learned I’m not alone.

Huh. My 16 year old with ADHD sleeps with her LED lights on and usually a podcast. My 11 year old with ADHD has an audiobook play all night long. My 13 year old without ADHD sleeps in the dark and quiet. Fascinating.

[estrellita]

Feb 8, 2023 11:35:10 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I hope you have success with the melatonin!

Sometimes all of the conventional sleep hygiene rules don’t apply to people with ADHD. That may be happening with your son if you’ve tried everything else without success. I can follow all of the recommendations for calming before bed and still get in bed and lay there for HOURS with my mind racing and bouncing, and frustration/anxiety rising. Or I can do everything wrong and fall right asleep. Right now, what works for me is falling asleep with my big light on. It’s like I’m able to trick my brain into thinking that it doesn’t have to sleep, and that removes all of the stress and frustration, and I fall right asleep. (My H turns off the light later.) My son who I suspect has ADHD is similar. My Apple Watch says I’m still getting into good sleep cycles quickly. Sometimes turning the TV on will do the same thing. Oddly enough, it’s most successful when it’s something I really want to watch. My son started swim team, and gets home from practice every night at 8:30, and that has helped, too.

I know it sounds crazy to people who don’t have ADHD brains, but after decades of fighting sleep and often getting 3-4 hours of sleep a night, I’ve realized that breaking every sleep rule was the key to my success…and I’ve learned I’m not alone.

Yet another person quoting you, lol. E sleeps with lights on a lot. His reasoning is being scared. He always has a dim LED light on but he tends to turn it brighter or leave his lamp on. We put a timer on it because otherwise he just reads until super late and doesn't wake up to his alarm. Maybe there's something here, that it's actually related to his ADHD and not being scared. Interesting!

I will admit I fall asleep faster when I play Candy Crush laying in bed. It's mindless enough that it doesn't keep me awake but keeps my attention enough to distract me from my brain going a million miles an hour!

[lilac05]

I wish I could tell you where I first read that breaking sleep hygiene rules might work for ADHD brains. I know I didn’t just make it up! LOL. (But I’m also pretty sure it wasn’t a legit sleep doctor, either. I just don’t think it makes sense if your brain isn’t wired that way.)

I’ll poke around my normal ADHD resources and see if I can find it.

[redheadbaker]

Feb 8, 2023 11:35:10 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I hope you have success with the melatonin!

Sometimes all of the conventional sleep hygiene rules don’t apply to people with ADHD. That may be happening with your son if you’ve tried everything else without success. I can follow all of the recommendations for calming before bed and still get in bed and lay there for HOURS with my mind racing and bouncing, and frustration/anxiety rising. Or I can do everything wrong and fall right asleep. Right now, what works for me is falling asleep with my big light on. It’s like I’m able to trick my brain into thinking that it doesn’t have to sleep, and that removes all of the stress and frustration, and I fall right asleep. (My H turns off the light later.) My son who I suspect has ADHD is similar. My Apple Watch says I’m still getting into good sleep cycles quickly. Sometimes turning the TV on will do the same thing. Oddly enough, it’s most successful when it’s something I really want to watch. My son started swim team, and gets home from practice every night at 8:30, and that has helped, too.

I know it sounds crazy to people who don’t have ADHD brains, but after decades of fighting sleep and often getting 3-4 hours of sleep a night, I’ve realized that breaking every sleep rule was the key to my success…and I’ve learned I’m not alone.

My ADHD evaluation was "inconclusive" but I've been sleeping with white noise my whole life.

[lilac05]

redheadbaker, that reminds me…for some people, “white noise” is irritating and/or not effective, but there’s brown noise (and I think pink, and possibly others). They’re at different frequencies & sometimes have a different effect on people.

[karinothing]

Jan 31, 2023 14:54:07 GMT -5 @kar said:

Jan 31, 2023 11:51:08 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

I think this only works if you have very clear academic deficits to focus on in tutoring.  But clarifying ADHD vs. dyslexia vs. both really needs an evaluation.  Also without any diagnosis documentation, the 504/IEP process is more difficult and might come out with the wrong supports.

This. If a kid has small academic gaps or is likely struggling due to a crappy reading curriculum, sure, go straight to tutoring. But if there are bigger challenges, you're better off getting a full evaluation (unfortunately usually before you start much tutoring in our experience) so you can actually get the child set up with the right supports, IEP/504. You'll probably still need private tutoring if your district is anything like ours, but at least you'll have the right words behind your support requests, which gets increasingly importand in middle/high school.

Not to mention that the type of tutoring may change based on the diagnosis. Dyslexia? Okay then you need a specific type of tutor and they need to come multiple days a week. ADHD? Then you may need an academic tutor and an executive functioning coach. Something else? Than you are going to need to focus on that. You need to get to the root of the problem before it can be addressed properly. 

[jg183]

doctors do not seem to be consistent on melatonin. Both our pediatrician and psychiatrist say to give it to him. My son needs 2mg a night to turn off his brain and they both say that is a very small dose and he can even have more if he needs it. Once he is asleep he sleeps all night but it is the initial falling asleep he struggles with.
He takes vyvanse in the morning, has soccer or TKD every evening, plays soccer at recess and afterschool with the neighbors and literally never sits.
He just is a night owl. With melatonin, he still struggles to fall asleep before 10. Without who knows but it would be at least midnight. He is 10, almost 11. He struggles to wake up at 715 for a 730 bus.

[katiecj6]

My son is 13, he had to start taking melatonin after he started concerta.

We find that exercise in the early evening, no screentime after supper, snack before bed, and a shower before bed help the most.

If he can't sleep, I have books he can read. (He's not allowed his kindle) But they are all novels, finance books and a few self help books aka...boring. He's not allowed to read Harry Potter or that late at night (or else he will stay up all night reading).

[waverly]

We did decide to go the tutoring route. He has SPD diagnosed that explains executive function. If we need to continue to go up a level then an evaluation might be warranted. At this time organization has improved. Frequent reminders are still necessary though. He has an IEP already so we might add some goals to OT.

Some of these are persisting issues, and some are due to the pandemic/ elearning and starting middle school. Many kids are behind in academics and maturity due to the pandemic. We’ll keep an eye out if we need additional interventions plus an assessment. Tutoring is helping. She’s a teacher in district so she talks to all his teachers and he can share documents with her. She can also assess his math levels since she is an advanced math teacher. Overall it’s been a great experience but we’ll have to see his 7th grade goes. Although she can’t evaluate I might check in with her on thoughts of pursuing evaluation. I had asked his 2nd grade teacher and she said no she wasn’t seeing ADHD and then 3rd grade and 4th grade the schools were shut down mostly.


His advisory teacher is a bit harsh so I prefer to work with his other teachers or the tutor. She may be a good teacher but she’s not great with communication. Advisory teacher works on executive function.

[atarianna]

I haven’t read replies so this might be covered but is your kid on Guanfacine? We use a stimulant in the morning and a long acting Guanfacine in the evening. It seems to help with his sleeplessness which he had no problems with before being medicated with a stimulant.

I think part of his problem is he is so much less active with the medicine and needs to get his energy out. The weather has been relatively mild so the kids have been able to be outside much more than normal; that has helped for sure.

[redheadbaker]

Feb 25, 2023 9:01:05 GMT -5 atarianna said:

I haven’t read replies so this might be covered but is your kid on Guanfacine? We use a stimulant in the morning and a long acting Guanfacine in the evening. It seems to help with his sleeplessness which he had no problems with before being medicated with a stimulant.

I think part of his problem is he is so much less active with the medicine and needs to get his energy out. The weather has been relatively mild so the kids have been able to be outside much more than normal; that has helped for sure.

No, he's on Vyvanse.

It's been a few weeks, and the melatonin is helping.