@@ Mifepristone (RU 486) Case in Texas

[pinkplasticdoll]

Oh also it is fundraising season for the national network of abortion funds so if you are interested in donating to your local fund please do so, the funds are still funding to clinics which are seeing a huge influx of out of state folks as you can imagine.

[wanderingback]

Apr 11, 2023 10:36:09 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Apr 10, 2023 19:25:17 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I obviously agree and lots of people have been silent and complicit for way too long. But I shared the article cause it’s pretty telling of how absurd the TX judge ruling is if even they came out condemning it. Cause like you said some of them probably voted for Trump. Trust me, I am not cheering for pharmaceutical executives.

I heard that the judge cited Wikipedia and used some eugenics language….plus he straight up had facts wrong.

Yes. He literally uses every anti talking point and language.

[NewOrleans]

A federal appeals court ruled late Wednesday that the abortion pill mifepristone could remain available, but the judges blocked the drug from being sent to patients through the mail and rolled back other steps the government had taken to ease access in recent years.

In its order, a three-judge panel for the Fifth Circuit partly overruled Judge Matthew J. Kacsmaryk of the Northern District of Texas, who last week declared that the Food and Drug Administration’s approval of mifepristone in 2000 was not valid, in essence saying that the drug should be pulled from the market.

The appellate court said its ruling would hold until the full case was heard on its merits.

www.nytimes.com/2023/04/13/health/abortion-pill-ruling-appeal.html

[wanderingback]

The appeals court ruling is trash.
I’m not changing anything about how I practice. Following the evidence and science only.
Fuck them all.

[seeyalater52]

Apr 13, 2023 8:45:16 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

The appeals court ruling is trash.
I’m not changing anything about how I practice. Following the evidence and science only.
Fuck them all.

The reporting on it has so been atrocious, minimizing the harm it will cause and over focusing on the parts that won’t be in effect. I’m so sorry the courts are interfering with your scope of practice like this (again.) Such bullshit.

[mpm]

I’m having an existential crisis as an attorney. Nothing matters.

Precedent? Nah. Standing? Psh. Legal analysis? Lol.

[NewOrleans]

Apr 11, 2023 10:36:09 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Apr 10, 2023 19:25:17 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I obviously agree and lots of people have been silent and complicit for way too long. But I shared the article cause it’s pretty telling of how absurd the TX judge ruling is if even they came out condemning it. Cause like you said some of them probably voted for Trump. Trust me, I am not cheering for pharmaceutical executives.

I heard that the judge cited Wikipedia and used some eugenics language….plus he straight up had facts wrong.

This lays out his linguistic fuckery.  www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna78937

This explains the shit he mis-cites 
www.businessinsider.com/texas-abortion-pill-ruling-nationwide-gets-basic-facts-wrong-2023-4

In the ruling, Kacsmaryk writes that women who receive an abortion are at higher risk of death by suicide, "self-destructive tendencies, depression, and other unhealthy behavior aggravated by the abortion experience," citing studies debunked by the broader scientific community, Biggs said.

Kacsmaryk also claims women experience "intense psychological trauma" from seeing an expelled embryo.

Biggs said when she worked on a longitudinal research project called The Turnaway Study, examining the mental, physical, and socioeconomic consequences of receiving an abortion compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term, the results showed the opposite — 95% said that they felt that it was the right decision for them.
"When we did find harm, any kind of psychological harm, it was not to people who had an abortion, but it was people who were denied abortion," Biggs told Insider.

This explains his Wikipedia info. Like a teenager who waited until the last minute on his term paper. IMO, the problem isn’t the Wikipedia itself but a really weird application of the info 
www.newsweek.com/texas-judge-mifepristone-abortion-pill-ruling-questioned-doctors-1793289?amp=1

[cattledogkisses]

This is frightening for many reasons, and one of the big ones to me is that, if they’re ultimately successful at removing mifepristone from the market, that sets a precedent and opens the door to do the same with other medications. Any medication that someone has an ideological opposition to could be on the chopping block.

[mpm]

Apr 13, 2023 9:07:21 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

This is frightening for many reasons, and one of the big ones to me is that, if they’re ultimately successful at removing mifepristone from the market, that sets a precedent and opens the door to do the same with other medications. Any medication that someone has an ideological opposition to could be on the chopping block.

All vaccines. 😩

[seeyalater52]

Apr 13, 2023 9:27:49 GMT -5 mpm said:

Apr 13, 2023 9:07:21 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

This is frightening for many reasons, and one of the big ones to me is that, if they’re ultimately successful at removing mifepristone from the market, that sets a precedent and opens the door to do the same with other medications. Any medication that someone has an ideological opposition to could be on the chopping block.

All vaccines. 😩

HRT for gender affirming care. PReP. Really anything used off label (like…. Tons and tons of pediatric stuff especially.)

This is the regulatory and medication side of the approach they went for in the ACA preventative services ruling out of TX a couple weeks ago. If the employer has a religious objection to a service bc they think it’s icky you can’t force them to cover it.

[basilosaurus]

JFC, wikipedia?!

[StrawberryBlondie]

Apr 13, 2023 10:25:05 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

JFC, wikipedia?!

And apparently a blog called something like "abortionchangesyou.com"

[mpm]

Apr 13, 2023 11:46:53 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Apr 13, 2023 10:25:05 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

JFC, wikipedia?!

And apparently a blog called something like "abortionchangesyou.com"

FFS.

[sonrisa]

Apr 13, 2023 9:07:21 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Any medication that someone has an ideological opposition to could be on the chopping block.

or financial opposition.

let’s not forget that much of what hobby lobby didn’t like about the birth control mandate was the cost. They hung their hat on religious objection, but it was a financially motivated religious objection. 

[basilosaurus]

Q for the lawyers. Could a decision this bad, this dismissive of precedent, quoting wiki and a blog potentially be ground for removal and/or disbarment? At least hypothetically.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Apr 13, 2023 12:23:20 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Q for the lawyers. Could a decision this bad, this dismissive of precedent, quoting wiki and a blog potentially be ground for removal and/or disbarment? At least hypothetically.

Could it? Theoretically yes.

Realistically? Probably not. Removing a federal judge is basically unheard of.

Disbarring wouldn't do much either because IIRC it doesn't matter if a judge is licensed while they're on the bench because being a judge is not practicing law.

[NewOrleans]

Apr 13, 2023 13:06:40 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Apr 13, 2023 12:23:20 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Q for the lawyers. Could a decision this bad, this dismissive of precedent, quoting wiki and a blog potentially be ground for removal and/or disbarment? At least hypothetically.

Could it? Theoretically yes.

Realistically? Probably not. Removing a federal judge is basically unheard of.

Disbarring wouldn't do much either because IIRC it doesn't matter if a judge is licensed while they're on the bench because being a judge is not practicing law.

Although they are practicing medicine!

[tiramisu]

Just saw an update that there is an administrative stay on the TX ruling while the Supreme Court considers the case, meaning access is supposed to remain the same as prior to the TX ruling. This is the first I've found about it.

www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/politics/supreme-court-abortion-drug/index.html

[basilosaurus]

Appeals court ruled that the drug should be available but rolled back fda restrictions placed in 2000. This means must be prescribed by a dr, not np or pa, must be prescribed and taken in person, and cannot be mailed, and is only for up to 7 weeks, not 10. This means 3 visits, all before 7 weeks, effectively making it unavailable for many.

[wanderingback]

Apr 16, 2023 4:00:43 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Appeals court ruled that the drug should be available but rolled back fda restrictions placed in 2000. This means must be prescribed by a dr, not np or pa, must be prescribed and taken in person, and cannot be mailed, and is only for up to 7 weeks, not 10. This means 3 visits, all before 7 weeks, effectively making it unavailable for many.

To be clear when mife was originally approved back in 2000 the fda recommended dosing was already out of date. It recommended 600mg but newer research showed that 200mg was sufficient so that’s what people used from the beginning and that’s what we still use. In addition, many places never did 3 visits. Most states without bans have also always been using it over the fda approved gestational limit of 10 weeks. Most places without state restrictions use it to 11 or through 12 weeks.

All that to say, many places are not changing what they’re doing, telehealth companies are still mailing, so people should keep their appointments if they have them and let’s not cause more confusion for people.

And visit plancpills.org for other ways to get mife and miso in all 50 states.

[basilosaurus]

Thank you. I should have said up to 3 visits because of states that have mandatory wait periods plus requirementws to take both meds in office. I assumed that despite the 7 weeks of the 2000 approval, many would still presecribe to 10+.

I don't intend to be confusing, but the reality is that it is a confusing mess. I'm merely paraphrasing what the appeals court concluded. Hospitals, providers, lawyers are all confused about what these various bans mean in practice hence women having to become septic after a misscarriage before an abortion is permitted in that location for instance.

Thank you for the work you and others like you continue to do.

[wanderingback]

Apr 16, 2023 7:58:20 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Thank you. I should have said up to 3 visits because of states that have mandatory wait periods plus requirementws to take both meds in office. I assumed that despite the 7 weeks of the 2000 approval, many would still presecribe to 10+.

I don't intend to be confusing, but the reality is that it is a confusing mess. I'm merely paraphrasing what the appeals court concluded. Hospitals, providers, lawyers are all confused about what these various bans mean in practice hence women having to become septic after a misscarriage before an abortion is permitted in that location for instance.

Thank you for the work you and others like you continue to do.

Unfortunately the states that have/had mandatory waiting periods and the requirements for taking mife in person now have abortion completely banned so it doesn’t matter PA for example do have a requirement that you have to receive ”counseling" at least 24 hours before your abortion but it can be done over the phone.

[Poppy]

Do you know how approximately long these pills last per their expiration dates?

[wanderingback]

Apr 16, 2023 18:55:49 GMT -5 Poppy said:

Do you know how approximately long these pills last per their expiration dates?

Mife is a little more shelf stable than miso (miso will much more easily dissolve if gets some water on it and it crushes easier). But we typically tell people they’ll last for about 3 years if kept in a cool dry place. So If you want to buy pills before or you have leftover pills use the 3 year mark. And the effectiveness doesn’t just completely vanish, it likely slowly goes down over time.

[pinkplasticdoll]

In case anyone is following there was a filing today in NM that reiterated the 5th circuits interpretation of Comstock and that Comstock trumped states law protecting abortion

[seeyalater52]

Apr 17, 2023 20:09:09 GMT -5 pinkplasticdoll said:

In case anyone is following there was a filing today in NM that reiterated the 5th circuits interpretation of Comstock and that Comstock trumped states law protecting abortion

It is nearly impossible to overstate how Extremely Bad this is. I feel nauseous.

[basilosaurus]

Apr 17, 2023 21:05:16 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Apr 17, 2023 20:09:09 GMT -5 pinkplasticdoll said:

In case anyone is following there was a filing today in NM that reiterated the 5th circuits interpretation of Comstock and that Comstock trumped states law protecting abortion

It is nearly impossible to overstate how Extremely Bad this is. I feel nauseous.

Where's our Victoria Woodhull?

I absolutely loathed Comstock when I first learned of him and his pernicious laws. I never thought in present day he'd be upheld. Absolutely terrifying.

[basilosaurus]

More on TX judge. He should never have been confirmed which is probably true of the vast majority of trump picks.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/04/15/matthew-kacsmaryk-law-review/

[NewOrleans]

www.npr.org/2023/04/19/1170631254/abortion-pill-decision-supreme-court

The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday extended until Friday at midnight an administrative stay in an ongoing lower-court fight over the FDA-approved use of the abortion pill mifepristone.

The announcement kicks the can down the road on what the high court will do for another few days.

[pixy0stix]

Can has been kicked as far as it can

Appeals court embraces abortion-pill limits, sets up Supreme Court review

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/16/abortion-pill-mifepristone-court-ruling-appeal/