Discussion topic - will TikTok be banned?

[pixy0stix]

Senator Calls on Apple and Google to Ban TikTok in App Stores


There's a fairly large body of evidence that the app isn't harmless, and is not just "another app that is collecting data on me".

[pixy0stix]

We had this discussion 2 years ago regarding Trump trying to ban TikTok - pandce.proboards.com/thread/620721/trump-moves-ban-tiktok

[sent]

I can't say I disagree with the Senator.

I wouldn't trust anything China might promise to keep it from being banned.

[msmerymac]

I'm attending a virtual conference right now. There's a presentation later today by someone who works at TikTok - and still, multiple speakers so far have said that TikTok's time is coming. They've been surprisingly innovative in the industry, but the data privacy stuff is just a non-starter.

[AJL]

can some one list out what is more harmful about TikTok than other social media platforms?

[waverly]

Feb 2, 2023 12:16:49 GMT -5 AJL said:

can some one list out what is more harmful about TikTok than other social media platforms?

The main difference is that it is a Chinese company.  From listening to an NPR podcast, Chinese government regulators are consistently in the office meaning the Chinese government has access to all the data from American individuals.  The podcast was a few years ago, and the company has since said the data is secure, and they don't share it blah blah, but I don't think anyone really believes them.  

[pixy0stix]

Feb 2, 2023 12:21:14 GMT -5 waverly said:

Feb 2, 2023 12:16:49 GMT -5 AJL said:

can some one list out what is more harmful about TikTok than other social media platforms?

The main difference is that it is a Chinese company.  From listening to an NPR podcast, Chinese government regulators are consistently in the office meaning the Chinese government has access to all the data from American individuals.  The podcast was a few years ago, and the company has since said the data is secure, and they don't share it blah blah, but I don't think anyone really believes them.  

NPR article that probably came out around the same time - www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china

There's also a real concern that the Chinese government could seize control of every phone that TikTok has been installed on, since the permissions obtained by the app would allow them to do this. The could brick every single phone in a blink.

[lilac05]

Feb 2, 2023 12:40:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Feb 2, 2023 12:21:14 GMT -5 waverly said:

The main difference is that it is a Chinese company.  From listening to an NPR podcast, Chinese government regulators are consistently in the office meaning the Chinese government has access to all the data from American individuals.  The podcast was a few years ago, and the company has since said the data is secure, and they don't share it blah blah, but I don't think anyone really believes them.  

NPR article that probably came out around the same time - www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china

There's also a real concern that the Chinese government could seize control of every phone that TikTok has been installed on, since the permissions obtained by the app would allow them to do this. The could brick every single phone in a blink.

Thanks for sharing this. I downloaded the app at one point, but never actually used it. I wasn’t too worried about security because it wasn’t connects to an email with my name or any other social media. I never really thought about what harm it would cause just by existing on my phone. I deleted my account & then the app.

[tiki]

Feb 2, 2023 12:40:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

There's also a real concern that the Chinese government could seize control of every phone that TikTok has been installed on, since the permissions obtained by the app would allow them to do this. The could brick every single phone in a blink.

Do you have a reference you recommend for TikTok app permissions being sufficient to brick phones? Especially on iOS (in my experience Android app review is more hit or miss) an app can't do anything that the developer hasn't declared to Apple and Apple allowed, so this would surprise me.  

[pixy0stix]

Feb 3, 2023 7:51:23 GMT -5 tiki said:

Feb 2, 2023 12:40:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

There's also a real concern that the Chinese government could seize control of every phone that TikTok has been installed on, since the permissions obtained by the app would allow them to do this. The could brick every single phone in a blink.

Do you have a reference you recommend for TikTok app permissions being sufficient to brick phones? Especially on iOS (in my experience Android app review is more hit or miss) an app can't do anything that the developer hasn't declared to Apple and Apple allowed, so this would surprise me.  

The NPR article states this, and this article amplifies it - freebeacon.com/national-security/fbi-director-wray-china-could-use-tiktok-to-control-software-on-millions-of-americans-devices/

TikTok is basically a virus that we've willingly downloaded to our phones.

[pixy0stix]

This goes into why the discussion is murky, and adds more details - www.wired.com/story/tiktok-nationa-security-threat-why/

The second component isn't directly related to the software/code or privacy issues, but more to how the app can sway public opinion. Like we saw in 2020 with the Russian influence, large swaths of people on both sides of the political aisle were sucked into deeply divided and inflammatory content that wasn't created in the US. It would be stupidly easy to push "viral" content through TikTok to sway the public opinion.

[aurora]

I have never used TikTok so don't have a personal stake in this, but I do find it hard to believe their claim that their US data is (and will remain) totally outside of China's hands.

[Vespasia]

Stupid question - is it just the app that's an issue? I don't do anything with TikTok because I hate anything with sound but MH gets dozens of links via messenger a week from his brother and coworkers. Just curious if they're also a threat.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 3, 2023 11:20:37 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

Stupid question - is it just the app that's an issue? I don't do anything with TikTok because I hate anything with sound but MH gets dozens of links via messenger a week from his brother and coworkers. Just curious if they're also a threat.

Does he view them? The links themselves wouldn't be an issue, and neither would viewing them via FB or Insta (where I mostly see them reposted). Only if you have the app downloaded.

[Bernadine]

So if I delete the app, is it too late for me? I’ve already been compromised, I guess?

[tiki]

Feb 3, 2023 9:00:13 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Feb 3, 2023 7:51:23 GMT -5 tiki said:

Do you have a reference you recommend for TikTok app permissions being sufficient to brick phones? Especially on iOS (in my experience Android app review is more hit or miss) an app can't do anything that the developer hasn't declared to Apple and Apple allowed, so this would surprise me.  

The NPR article states this, and this article amplifies it - freebeacon.com/national-security/fbi-director-wray-china-could-use-tiktok-to-control-software-on-millions-of-americans-devices/

TikTok is basically a virus that we've willingly downloaded to our phones.

Every article I can find (including the link above) references this quote from Director Wray: "They include the possibility that the Chinese government could use it to control data collection on millions of users. Or control the recommendation algorithm, which could be used for influence operations if they so chose. Or to control software on millions of devices, which gives it opportunity to potentially technically compromise personal devices.” 

The tiktok app definitely collects data about users, and it is highly likely that the Chinese government has access to those data.  So the first two sentences are very reasonable and plausible sources of risk to the US. I'd still want to see more evidence to support the software control or device compromise claims before getting worked up, though, or at least examples of other apps that were able to get that kind of malicious functionality past Apple or Google review. 

[sent]

Feb 3, 2023 11:54:30 GMT -5 Bernadine said:

So if I delete the app, is it too late for me? I’ve already been compromised, I guess?

I put my tinfoil hat on and deleted it. My staff put it on there for me but I almost never look at it. No point to keeping it. 

[pixy0stix]

Feb 3, 2023 11:54:30 GMT -5 Bernadine said:

So if I delete the app, is it too late for me? I’ve already been compromised, I guess?

They would have the collected data, but they wouldn't be able to keep collecting data. KWIM?

[Scout'sHonor]

It was already banned on gov owned devices and is blocked on our networks, so you can't even watch links.

[BlondeSpiders]

I have an Etsy shop, and I get so many more views on TT than I do IG or FB. Argh.

[babsbunny]

BlondeSpiders, maybe use an old phone without a cell plan and only on wifi for TT? That way you control how much of your data is on that phone. (I would also recommend seperate gmail and apple ids than your main phone).

I see an article every day on stolen data. Companies just suck at it right now. Be extra careful everyone.

[pixy0stix]

Bumping - U.S. House panel approves bill giving Biden power to ban TikTok - www.reuters.com/technology/us-house-panel-approves-bill-give-biden-power-ban-tiktok-2023-03-01/

ACLU is up in arms that this is a First Amendment violation. I really don't think we should be using TikTok at all, because it IS a national security risk (for many reasons). But when should the government step in to save us from our own stupidity?

[Bernadine]

Mar 1, 2023 14:18:55 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Bumping - U.S. House panel approves bill giving Biden power to ban TikTok - www.reuters.com/technology/us-house-panel-approves-bill-give-biden-power-ban-tiktok-2023-03-01/

ACLU is up in arms that this is a First Amendment violation. I really don't think we should be using TikTok at all, because it IS a national security risk (for many reasons). But when should the government step in to save us from our own stupidity?

I mean, I’m not a First Amendment scholar or anything, lol, but to me, this isn’t controlling what you say, just the platform you’re able to use to say it.

[cattledogkisses]

Mar 1, 2023 14:30:23 GMT -5 Bernadine said:

Mar 1, 2023 14:18:55 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Bumping - U.S. House panel approves bill giving Biden power to ban TikTok - www.reuters.com/technology/us-house-panel-approves-bill-give-biden-power-ban-tiktok-2023-03-01/

ACLU is up in arms that this is a First Amendment violation. I really don't think we should be using TikTok at all, because it IS a national security risk (for many reasons). But when should the government step in to save us from our own stupidity?

I mean, I’m not a First Amendment scholar or anything, lol, but to me, this isn’t controlling what you say, just the platform you’re able to use to say it.

I think I'm here. 

And it's not like TikTok is the one and only social media platform available out there. (Although some of the others have their own issues, e.g. Twitter.)

[Velar Fricative]

TikTok sucks but this is rich that they're letting Biden do this while trying to strip his ability to do anything else.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 1, 2023 15:25:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

TikTok sucks but this is rich that they're letting Biden do this while trying to strip his ability to do anything else.

The logic here from the Rs is something. They didn't even put limits, just a carte blanche "yeah, you can ban anything you want". LOL!

ETA: I hope restrictions are put in place later, because what is proposed is not ok should an R president (like Desantis or Trump) get in power.

[lilac05]

Mar 1, 2023 15:25:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

TikTok sucks but this is rich that they're letting Biden do this while trying to strip his ability to do anything else.

It’s just so they can wash their hands of any blame when their base gets mad. “We didn’t do it! We simply said it’s not our decision to make! Biden gets 100% blame.”

[goldengirlz]

I’m not defending China’s record on human rights — at all. And yes, TikTok may well be a national security risk.

But why did China become the #1 international bogeyman for the GOP? Clearly they don’t care about human rights!

[pixy0stix]

Mar 1, 2023 17:41:04 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I’m not defending China’s record on human rights — at all. And yes, TikTok may well be a national security risk.

But why did China become the #1 international bogeyman for the GOP? Clearly they don’t care about human rights!

Unknown, but my D reps from CO are pushing hard for TikTok to be banned as well. I think there's more to this that isn't public for this (almost) united front.

[rubytue]

Mar 1, 2023 17:41:04 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I’m not defending China’s record on human rights — at all. And yes, TikTok may well be a national security risk.

But why did China become the #1 international bogeyman for the GOP? Clearly they don’t care about human rights!

Because Russia is a good guy now 🙄