S/O retirement - Aging parents

[gummybear]

This has been on my mind a lot lately and making headway on it is one of my 2023 resolutions. If anyone has any advice or can commiserate I's appreciate it!

My parents are in their late 70s and have been retired for a while. They live about 1 hour away from us - they moved there shortly after we got married 19 years ago. Recently, my father has begun to descend deeper into the throes of dementia. My mom is still very active and still very much with it, but her primary focus is now taking care of my dad. There's been a definite shift that I've noticed and I'm concerned about her as much as my dad. I can tell that she's lonely (not all together lonely, she still has things that SHE does) because she's pretty much lost her best friend/daily partner. My parents aren't really social, they are the type that really enjoy each other more than anything else. She's become a lot more needy of our time (mine and the kids). Always wanting to get together etc. This has been a sticking point since they moved where they did because it's an hour away and also quite a harrowing drive (basically 4 highways through the heart of the metro area). It was more manageable when the kids were little and had less going on, I was a full-time SAHM, and my dad was actually able to drive as well. I have a lot of guilt that I am unable to accommodate her need to see us as I am acutely aware our time is limited, my dad is never going to get better, and each day with him is going to be better than the next.

I'm trying to plan for the future. I know at some point my mom is going to need more help taking care of him. And eventually need help herself. There are too many demands on my time for me to be able make that commute back and forth on any regular basis. My brother is unmarried with no kids and lives closer but I am not willing to but the brunt of the responsibility on him for those reasons. My parents are the type (esp. my mom) that REFUSE to change. They refused to move from the house I grew up in for a very long time, and when they did, they moved en masse with everyone from "the neighborhood" to retirement communities in one specific area, which was far and inconvenient from us - many of their neighborhood people's kids stayed around that same area so their grandchildren were still close (this is a very nuanced situation that I can't really explain clearly unless you kind of "get" this whole Delco mentality, it's strange and myopic and exhausting). They are extremely close with my dad's brother and his wife, who lived down the street from us my entire life and now live down the (much more suburban) street from them now. They are actually older than my parents so I can't rely on them for any sort of help.

I want to move them up closer to us. Right now, I know they are unwilling to do that. They don't want to leave everyone and everything they've always known. I think it would make them depressed and maybe hasten my dad's mental state. I know they still enjoy the their daily time with my aunt and uncle and my mom enjoys her activities (walking, mahjong, book club etc.). I understand that, but at the same time she's wanting more time with us. Both things cannot happen at the same time and there are only 3 more years until DD1 goes to college. If they moved up here it would literally only be us that they know. My mom is currently unwilling to address this. I don't know what to do or how to handle it. 

[nicolewi]

I'm sorry, that is hard. I think it's clear that eventually they will HAVE to move closer to you. Maybe they/your mom isn't ready yet, but there will be a point at which they need more help. Maybe you can start talking NOW about options for the future? Places they could go? You could start researching some options. Your mom may eventually come around once the day-to-day is too difficult for her to manage.

My parents drove down many, many weekends for a couple years when my grandma was having health problems and dementia. She passed away at age 101! It was about an hour and a half, but no major metro highway stuff to manage every time. This only worked for them b/c we were in this area and they could stay with us (or my brother) quite often. It was very difficult and exhausting; there's no way I see you being able to go back and forth like that to your parents' current location while you also have kids.

Ironically, my parents have NOW moved down to this area, about 1.5 years after my grandma passed away. My mom was so stressed it was like she couldn't manage figuring out their own move while still caring for her parents/mom, so they just drove back-and-forth for a long time.

ETA: And MY parents...my dad's in his mid-70s and my mom is about to turn 70, but I am so glad personally they are now closer. They were mostly FINE previously, but in the past several month have had a whole bunch of stuff happen, health-wise. My mom had a thyroid biopsy (luckily was okay but the procedure wasn't fun), dad had prostate surgery, they found a kidney mass on my mom incidentally while scanning for something else and she had to have a biopsy and partial nephrectomy, my dad had his hip replaced this week, and my mom is having her knee replaced in April!!!!  With our kids being so busy there's no way I could have been driving to their old house to try to help...it's great that they are here now in case of any complications. They really haven't needed help with any of this so far, but my mom's knee might require me to go over there a few times.

[bee20]

Aging is hard and there usually isn't one right answer, unfortunately.

I think if her friends are there, she has hobbies that get her out of the house, and she has some family down there, moving up to see you would likely be a net negative. Especially since your kids are older and probably wouldn't see her that much more if she was local vs. an hour away.

I suggest you think for yourself and your family what a good visit cadence would be. I mentally try to see family in person once a month and exchange picture texts at least twice a month. I don't feel burdened by the schedule, but it's frequent enough that I don't get that feeling of "they'll never be this young again and I'm wasting the time with my own life". I used to have a lot of guilt so really thinking through what time I had to give and setting that as a goal was helpful.

[jinkies]

I'm sorry. It is such a hard and helpless feeling to watch our parents age.

I think, based on what you've written, that it may be helpful to take a step back and maybe attempt to talk to your mom again. Not from a "you should move here" perspective, but from a "I want to help but this is what I can realistically give" perspective.

I understand the impulse to bundle them up and bring them closer so that you can help and also spend time with them as they age. But it also sounds like they have a community where they are-- neighbors and activities and family other than you (you mentioned your aunts and uncles, and your brother).

Maybe in a calm moment, say to your mom that you would love to spend more time with her and your dad but with jobs and kids activities, you just can't commit the time to driving out as much as you would like. Then ask her what would be most helpful within the boundary of what you can offer: maybe bringing a selection of freezer meals when you do see them? A regular date to meet for dinner at a halfway point that is less burdensome than 2 hours in the car every time? Helping with financial or medical stuff that can be done from your home but that removes a burden from her?

Then tell her that if she would ever consider moving closer, you would support her and love to spend more time with her, but leave it there. If she doesn't know anyone else near you, do you really want to be her *only* social outlet? Does she want that?

I hope you read all this as being said with kindness. I truly understand the impulse to want to be able to wrap them up into your life in a way that makes possible for you to handle more of the hard stuff for them. But it doesn't sound like that is what your mom wants, at least right now.

[gummybear]

nicolewi my plan right now is to talk to my brother so we can present a united front to my mom. I can totally see the mentality that my mom might be too overwhelmed to address it while my dad is still very much present. There are SO many option up here - there are even 2 LTC communities that specifically address memory loss that I can WALK to from my house.

The sad part is I actually think they would (would have) loved being up here. All the stuff they enjoy - arts, outdoors, good restaurants - are more prolific here than where they currently are. Of course, it's also a lot more expensive. Not really a factor now, but it was when they were originally moving.

[VillainV]

That sounds like a lot to deal with, and it’s clearly been weighing on your mind.

We faced a similar situation with my MIL and FIL over the last decade. FIL was much older, and declined slowly but steadily from Parkinson’s before passing away about 1.5 years ago. We were never physically close enough to help much, as the closest we lived was 7 hours away, and now we are more like 9 hours away. We would love for MIL to move closer to us, but she’s not ready to do that yet since she still has a network of friends and neighbors in FL. It’s possible we could move there in a few years, but I’d rather not (for a lot of reasons).

What I’ve realized is that we can’t MAKE her do anything. We have made it clear to her that as much as we WANT to visit her, we are unable to do so very often due to our schedules and the distance/expense. We have issued her an open invitation to visit us as often as she likes for as long as she likes. We have invited her to move closer to us if she wants (there’s a 55+ section of our neighborhood that would be amazing for her, if she ever chooses to move here). We haven’t advertised this to her, but if she needed to move in with us, we have the space for her to do that (we specifically picked a house with that possibility in mind). So the ball is in her court. I don’t know if she’ll ever move up here, but it if she doesn’t, it won’t because she doesn’t know it’s an option.

So yeah, I think your best bet is an open conversation with them. Your love to see them more and help them more, but you can’t do that as often as everyone would like due to where they live. They need to understand that boundary. Then they can choose, down the road as situations change, if it’s more important for them to stay where they are, or if they want to move closer.

[livinitup]

I think your first step is to let go of a lot of guilt you feel. You don’t deserve to beat yourself up because of your parent’s decisions. It doesn’t help either.

If they don’t want to move closer to you, then you have to accept it and everything that comes with it. Accept it and let go of the useless guilt that is attached to it.

I know the difference between a hard 1 hour drive and and easy one. There is a BIG difference. I did a 1 hour commute to work that was totally manageable. The 1 hour drive between my parent's house and uncle's home is so difficult, that it's hard to do more than once a month.

Can you hire help? Have you had a long talk with your brother about what he wants?

You sound like a loving daughter.

[gummybear]

bee20 the guilt is eating away at me. I have a lot of issues with anxiety and have always been a "fixer" so it's very hard for me to just be stagnating with it.

jinkies I am totally reading it knowing it is being said with kindness <3 Right now we are kind of testing the waters of compromise - I can just hear the sadness in her voice. It's hard to put into words, really. My mom is a very smart person, and she knows deep down what is going on. I do think though I have to let her see it through herself. She's a COMPLETE type A (was a school principal for 30 years) so she's def. not someone who just stands by and lets things happen. I can best explain it that there's a little bit of wistfulness in her personality now. I think she is coming to terms with reality. It's just very sad.

[gummybear]

VillainV I think it's a really good point to let her know the option is always available when she is ready. I do think that it might take a compelling event that forces it. Either my dad needing LTC or something happening to my aunt or uncle that makes them not as accessible.

livinitup thank you for the comment about guilt. Guilt is my lifelong burden

I'm not sure about hiring help. Maybe? My parents are such "bootstraps" people. I def agree that I need to talk to my brother.

[SusanBAnthony]

I know so many people in similar situations. The thing here is that people move up to their lake cabins when they retire. So now just when they are about to need a ton of help they live 3 hours away with poor medical care! And they need/expect their kids in the city with kids and FT jobs to be able to help.

And like you said even an hour away means you can't do anything on a weekday without it being a massive disruption.

I've got nothing but sympathy, and I agree with the PP who suggested having a calm conversation about what you can manage, being realistic with yourself. I know for me, once a month would be about all I could manage because I have kids with needs (activities and Dr appointments etc), a demanding job with travel, and all the usual errands and housework.

I know one of the hardest things my mom has dealt with is my grandpa's decision to keep going to FL every winter. He's very frail and ill and gets poor medical care and my mom is his health care decision maker (and a nurse) and there isn't much she can do. But she's had to let it go because it's his life. But she has worked on her own self around letting go of trying to control or help when he has a bad health event. Or guilt she can't fly down and help.

[gummybear]

SusanBAnthony the health thing is def something that I’ve come to terms with, so I need to utilize the same strategy with this.

My dad is like a cat with nine lives. He’s survived a ton of things (cancer, multiple 90% blocked arteries, 6 weeks in the hospital with a diverticulitis related trauma). My parents have always “protected” me by not telling me what’s really going on health wise so as not to worry me. They keep it from me bc I always urge them to go to Drs in town rather than the dinky local hospital, but they again, hate change and the unknown. I’ve let go of that.

[plutosmoon]

My parents live 4 hours from me, I'm the closest in distance. They are 78 and 84, dad has Huntingtons, but other than those related symptoms he is physically very healthy. Mom is a cancer survivor with some mild health issues. They have friends and activities where they live, they are happy there and I think it will help as my dad's disease progresses. Moving and finding new doctors and specialists would be a big challenge. We all visit when we can, they are still able to drive out to see us. This is their decision, and they understand us kids can't uproot our lives to care for them. Realistically none of us will be able to fully care for dad as he worsens.

Currently, the best option is assisted living that can transition to full nursing care at their current location while they are both still alive, they are exploring that option. It's absurdly expensive, but their house can be sold to fund several years to make up the shortfall between dad's pension and the cost. Mom made dad promise not to stay out there alone if she goes first. If dad outlives mom he will move into assisted living or nursing care nearby one of us at that point. Not sure what mom will do, but she'd probably move in with me once dad goes, it will depend on several factors.

If your dad is newly diagnosed, they may still not fully grasp the reality of his future decline and the plans they will need to make. My parents sure haven't. Give them time, keep the conversation ongoing and remember the decisions made today don't have to be permanent. They may be firm in their decision to stay put now, but in time may change their minds.

[mrsslocombe]

Solidarity and commiseration here. My in-laws are in their late 80s and rapidly losing their ability to manage their all-too-complicated finances, home, etc. We live 3 hours away (H is an only child) and don't have a car, so getting there is very hard. We are approaching the point where it is no longer safe for them to drive (which they refuse to acknowledge).

Also, they refuse to leave their home, and they also refuse any sort of home care. But also tell us that we need to go back to our own home and live our own lives and not constantly be there to take care of them. So, really in a lose-lose-lose-lose-lose-lose situation here.

My husband is consumed by guilt that they are in this situation. It is easier for me to acknowledge that a. They are in this situation by their own choice and b. even if we disagree with that choice, it is their right to make that choice. My MIL, for instance, knows that going up and down stairs all day is a risk to her safety, but she refuses to move or get a stair lift. So unfortunately, it's her right to risk breaking her neck 20x a day.

My advice:
1. Focus on finding out what SHE plans to do, how she wants to handle things, have her come up with possible solutions. Vs. telling her what needs to happen. Be honest about what you are capable of handling and what you can offer. And have these conversations as soon as possible. There's a lot of things I wish we had talked to my In-laws about 10+ years ago.
2. I have found it helpful to talk to them about how they cared for THEIR parents, the challenges they faced, what was easier/harder, etc. Or how other relatives handled a similar situation. It's a good vehicle into certain conversations about their own care, what they want for themselves, etc.
3. Make sure they have clear medical directives, wills, power of attorney set up, etc. Talk about managing their finances in the future-at some point, do they want you or your brother to be on their accounts, etc. Make sure you have a clear understanding now of their accounts, income, expenses, and ability to pay for their care in the future.
4. Repeat the serenity prayer 1000x a day, which is currently what keeps me sane.
5. The guilt is awful, and I think therapy is the only way you work through it.

You are doing your best, I think dealing with aging parents is the hardest thing we go through, and generally we are not prepared for it.

[mcmel]

I’m so sorry. This is really difficult and I just started therapy to address very similar issues. Protect your own mental state above all else. It is their job to figure their lives out. If she reaches out for help or wanting to move, then help, but until then tell them that you can commit X days a week/month and that’s that.

Again, I’m so sorry because I know how shitty this all is.

[jackie011]

Having just met with an admissions director of a skilled nursing facility this week to discuss my MIL, I’m right there with you. Thankfully, my ILs moved up here 9 years ago when DS was born. (They previously lived 4 hours south of us) So, we’re all in the same town, and even the same neighborhood (I can see their house from my bedroom window). Things are starting to change rapidly for my MIL, who has dementia.

I agree with the PPs that you can present options and be supportive, but won’t be able to force the decision. I highly recommend having a conversation with your mom when things are calm and stable, and not in the throes of an emergency or changing situation. There are so many things to think about- changing accounts, adding powers of attorney, and the latest thing that we’ve been focused on- how do you actually pay for skilled nursing while the spouse remains in their home and able to pay bills. It’s not a quick process, so I’d start slowly bringing up the topic to ease your mom in to the conversation.

This stage of life is terrifying to me. I had a breakdown on the phone this week with my mom because I kept thinking “and now we’re going to have to figure all of this out for you, too.” I don’t think I’ve added much, other than to say, I get you 100%

[macmars45]

(hugs) to everyone dealing with aging parents now.
My parents are in their early 70s and definitely starting to slow down/have health issues. It's terrifying and my parents are thankfully in the same city I live in. I will say I'm really grateful my parents sat my 4 sisters and me down 12 years ago to decide who was in charge of what when the time comes (POA etc). So we have that all in writing already.

[spindle92]

gummybear, I just want to let you know your feelings are totally valid.

I also want to say Thank you for not putting everything on your brother just because he is single with no children.

I am your brother (single and no children) and it has all fallen on me.

Luckily my parents are relatively healthy but they are in their 80s and have some minor health issues and also just need help around the house with stuff that they can no longer do on their own. (I was raking the roof a couple days ago because there is no way in hell an 83 yr old man with a bad leg should be out doing that.)

My 2 sisters and my 1 brother are pretty selfish and only help me out with helping my parents out when it is convenient for them. My other brother that passed away was my right hand man. He ALWAYS stepped up to help me out with them and it was such a relief knowing I had backup.

sorry to rant about my own stuff.
Just wanted to again say you are not alone in this.

[stemmie]

I am so sorry gummybear,. I had very similar issues with my own parents. The only difference is that I was in Bucks and they were in FL/MD which meant the move happened in crisis-mode rather than planned with input from them and some of the choices I made were not what they would have chosen. But mom refused to even accept that dad likely had dementia until she almost died in FL because he was too impaired to recognize how sick she was or advocate for her. I only found out about this because her PCP had the hospital call me as her emergency contact because dad was clearly not capable of making decisions.

Your mom has made a choice and one that is probably sensible for her for now. It's sad that your family has this on their collective plates, but it's not something about which you should feel guilty.

I belong to an online community for dementia support and many spouse-caregivers regret moving closer to adult children when there's a disconnect between what the parent considers "help" and what the adult child considers "help". As someone actively parenting children at home and working, you might not be able to provide your mom the help she is going to need down the road. If she's thinking you're a free dad-sitter so she can go for her walks and mahjong when he's no longer safe alone at-home and willing to manage the grittier aspects of dementia-care like dressing, bathing and toileting dad and you're thinking you could stop by for a breezy social visit (which she would enjoy, I'm sure) twice a week she might regret the move.

In your shoes, I would open a dialog about her plans. I would make sure she has the necessary paperwork in place for you to take over should something happen to her because about 1/3 of dementia caregivers pass before their LO. And I would make a Plan B to take over if necessary. To that end, I would tour memory care facilities local to you in case you need to place him on the fly if you would be taking over.

Your description of Delco-reasoning made chuckle. My niece and her husband moved to Media from the city during the pandemic and getting them to leave Delco for anything a challenge. She's constantly sending me listings near her thinking I should move and bring my mom with me.

[icedcoffee]

My sister and I live in the same area 4 hours from home. My parents have a lot of friends back home but they know once they can’t live independently they’ll be moving closer to us.

[ssmjlm]

We basically have polar opposite aging parent situations and when the time comes it is going to be really hard to bite my tongue.

My IL's haven't taken care of themselves and it's going to be problematic. We are not in a position to help.

My parents are active. My dad's medical issues are not related to anything physical, he regularly takes 2 mile walks each day and both can navigate full flights of steps.

I worry, but more in a sense of how this is going to strain our family and marriage. My IL's are the one constant issue in our relationship and while we're in a good place now, this will rock the boat. DH has his brother, I'm by myself now. My only saving grace is financially, my parents are good, it will be logistics.

[sadlebred]

My mom went downhill quickly before she died, and my dad was able to care for her. My sibling retires in a few years and will probably have to either 1. relocate to where my dad lives and care for him 2. move dad to where they live and move him to a retirement facility. My sibling is not in a position to buy another property my dad could get around in where they live now. We don't anticipate my dad being able to live on his own for more than the next 4-5 years at the most. He's very unhealthy with lifestyle choices and already has mobility issues. I'm not in a position to care for my dad, have him moving into my house (we'd kill each other in less than 24 hours), or move to where he lives. We aren't super close; he's really close to my sibling,

[Gato]

I would not expect my parents to move. They are comfortable there. Yes, you could be of more help if they lived closer, but they really don't want to, and it's their life. They have your aunt and uncle, they have their community, and that's pretty great for older people.

I think as long as your dad has your mom to take care of him, they will probably do okay. If your father starts getting really incapacitated, like not being able to dress himself, shower, or toilet on his own, or starts wandering outside the house, then you and she need to talk about next steps. 

I've seen my MIL and my dad die, neither process was easy at all. My mom and dad insisted he die at home, and he got his wish, but it was super hard on my mom. It is very, very hard to provide 24-hour care once people become incapacitated. I don't think people can fully grasp how exhausting it is until they've been through it. Having said that, she was in good health and ready for the challenge. She is a little lonely now but unwilling to move. She's an adult so I leave it up to her. My brother or I call to check in at least once a day to make sure nothing sounds 'off.'

[Gato]

I wanted to add that the book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande is great for getting your head around these issues. Gawande gives lots of advice on how to talk to your parents about death. It's also really touching.

[dove]

Feb 4, 2023 23:11:57 GMT -5 Gato said:

I wanted to add that the book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande is great for getting your head around these issues. Gawande gives lots of advice on how to talk to your parents about death. It's also really touching.

I agree. This is a great book. I read it several years back but is very relevant to this “stage of life” that some of us are in.