March Covid: lockdown anniversary edition

[mrsukyankee]

Mar 9, 2023 17:04:54 GMT -5 nothingcontroversial said:

Okay, one of the things that keeps bothering me ever since this started is that a lot of media outlets have been using the terms "immunocompromised" and "vulnerable" a lot.

However, I suspect that certain people are considered by decision makers to be either "immunocompromised" or "vulnerable" or both, but these people don't actually consider themselves to be either of these two things.

I also suspect that a lot of media outlets and journalists use the terms "immunocompromised" or "vulnerable" without having any clear idea themselves about what either of these words mean.

For instance, I suspect that there have been a lot of people walking around who don't actually consider themselves to be either of these things, and then they get sick, and they show up in the statistics as being one of those "vulnerable" people who are "immunocompromised" and have "several underlying conditions."

Just because THEY don't think of themselves as vulnerable (or don't want to), doesn't negate that the medical world may denote them as vulnerable. My MIL never thought of herself as vulnerable, due to not wanting to be, but her having had Tuberculosis makes her vulnerable. Thinking it doesn't negate the fact.

[nothingcontroversial]

Mar 10, 2023 4:49:19 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Mar 9, 2023 17:04:54 GMT -5 nothingcontroversial said:

Okay, one of the things that keeps bothering me ever since this started is that a lot of media outlets have been using the terms "immunocompromised" and "vulnerable" a lot.

However, I suspect that certain people are considered by decision makers to be either "immunocompromised" or "vulnerable" or both, but these people don't actually consider themselves to be either of these two things.

I also suspect that a lot of media outlets and journalists use the terms "immunocompromised" or "vulnerable" without having any clear idea themselves about what either of these words mean.

For instance, I suspect that there have been a lot of people walking around who don't actually consider themselves to be either of these things, and then they get sick, and they show up in the statistics as being one of those "vulnerable" people who are "immunocompromised" and have "several underlying conditions."

Just because THEY don't think of themselves as vulnerable (or don't want to), doesn't negate that the medical world may denote them as vulnerable. My MIL never thought of herself as vulnerable, due to not wanting to be, but her having had Tuberculosis makes her vulnerable. Thinking it doesn't negate the fact.

That's what I'm getting at.

I was thinking about this when I read various articles that were all like, "Well, the vulnerable can just be shielded by staying home." I was thinking, "Yeah, but what if public health decides to take this tactic, and the the vulnerable refuse to "just" stay home? Pretty sure that a lot of "vulnerable" retirees in my state went out for opening week when a new casino opened at a nearby mall in November 2020.  (The state allowed the casino to proceed with the grand opening in November 2020 because the casino's operations meant a lot of revenue for the state government.)

[NewOrleans]

Strongly recommend reading! This article is so interesting and awful. It covers a lot of ground so it’s hard to put just a key quote. It focuses a lot on damage to the brain and the brain-heart connection.  

The virus could linger in the brain for months, according to research conducted at the NIH and reported in Nature in December 2022. The autopsy study of 44 people who died of COVID found rampant inflammation mainly in the respiratory tract, but viral RNA was detected throughout the body, even in the brain, as long as 230 days after infection.

Dysautonomia impairs the autonomic nervous system, a network of nerves that branch out from the brain or spinal cord and extend through the body, controlling unconscious functions such as heartbeat, breathing, sweating and blood vessel dilation. For Ghormley, like many people with long COVID, dysautonomia takes the form of postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, or POTS. The syndrome encompasses a collection of symptoms that include a racing heart rate—particularly on standing—and fatigue, and it can cause bowel and bladder irregularities. POTS can also be a component of the exhaustion that comes with PEM. Although the sy

😭😭😭 Vaccination appears to reduce the risk of long COVID. But a study published in May 2022 in Nature Medicine suggests the protection, though real, is not as good as one might hope. The survey of electronic health records from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs looked at the relatively small portion of vaccinated people who subsequently became infected. They developed long COVID only 15 percent less often than unvaccinated people. “These patients can have symptoms for one to two years or longer, and so every month you're racking up more patients. Even if it's 15 percent less, the total population of patients is still growing and exploding,” Pittman says. The best way to avoid getting long COVID, experts all agree, is to avoid getting COVID at all.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/long-covid-now-looks-like-a-neurological-disease-helping-doctors-to-focus-treatments/

[rubytue]

Mar 10, 2023 7:41:14 GMT -5 nothingcontroversial said:

Mar 10, 2023 4:49:19 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Just because THEY don't think of themselves as vulnerable (or don't want to), doesn't negate that the medical world may denote them as vulnerable. My MIL never thought of herself as vulnerable, due to not wanting to be, but her having had Tuberculosis makes her vulnerable. Thinking it doesn't negate the fact.

That's what I'm getting at.

I was thinking about this when I read various articles that were all like, "Well, the vulnerable can just be shielded by staying home." I was thinking, "Yeah, but what if public health decides to take this tactic, and the the vulnerable refuse to "just" stay home? Pretty sure that a lot of "vulnerable" retirees in my state went out for opening week when a new casino opened at a nearby mall in November 2020.  (The state allowed the casino to proceed with the grand opening in November 2020 because the casino's operations meant a lot of revenue for the state government.)

Not to mention how insulting, ableist, and other things to tell the vulnerable they just have to stay home. Whether you think of yourself as vulnerable or not, you deserve to be a member of society the same as everyone else. This is th attitude that has pissed me off the most. From when we wanted to protect the vulnerable to they need to protect themselves and stay home. 

[penguingrrl]

Mar 10, 2023 19:17:47 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Mar 10, 2023 7:41:14 GMT -5 nothingcontroversial said:

That's what I'm getting at.

I was thinking about this when I read various articles that were all like, "Well, the vulnerable can just be shielded by staying home." I was thinking, "Yeah, but what if public health decides to take this tactic, and the the vulnerable refuse to "just" stay home? Pretty sure that a lot of "vulnerable" retirees in my state went out for opening week when a new casino opened at a nearby mall in November 2020.  (The state allowed the casino to proceed with the grand opening in November 2020 because the casino's operations meant a lot of revenue for the state government.)

Not to mention how insulting, ableist, and other things to tell the vulnerable they just have to stay home. Whether you think of yourself as vulnerable or not, you deserve to be a member of society the same as everyone else. This is th attitude that has pissed me off the most. From when we wanted to protect the vulnerable to they need to protect themselves and stay home. 

Not to mention impossible. H has to be in his office three days a week. His office has hundreds of people per floor and no rooms, walls, or even cubicles or dividers, just desks. His doctor won’t write him a note for permanent WFH so he has to go in. But he’s also on rituxan, so his immune system isn’t what it needs to be. He wears a mask but nobody else does, so he doesn’t trust that it’s effective enough.

[curbsideprophet]

Mar 10, 2023 22:16:29 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Mar 10, 2023 19:17:47 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Not to mention how insulting, ableist, and other things to tell the vulnerable they just have to stay home. Whether you think of yourself as vulnerable or not, you deserve to be a member of society the same as everyone else. This is th attitude that has pissed me off the most. From when we wanted to protect the vulnerable to they need to protect themselves and stay home. 

Not to mention impossible. H has to be in his office three days a week. His office has hundreds of people per floor and no rooms, walls, or even cubicles or dividers, just desks. His doctor won’t write him a note for permanent WFH so he has to go in. But he’s also on rituxan, so his immune system isn’t what it needs to be. He wears a mask but nobody else does, so he doesn’t trust that it’s effective enough.

Can he request a reasonable accommodation based on local Covid transmission levels or waste water data? Or is his doctor not even willing to do that? Does the doctor realize immune system issues are considered a disability and must be accommodated? That is so frustrating, I’m sorry.

[penguingrrl]

Mar 10, 2023 23:06:25 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

Mar 10, 2023 22:16:29 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Not to mention impossible. H has to be in his office three days a week. His office has hundreds of people per floor and no rooms, walls, or even cubicles or dividers, just desks. His doctor won’t write him a note for permanent WFH so he has to go in. But he’s also on rituxan, so his immune system isn’t what it needs to be. He wears a mask but nobody else does, so he doesn’t trust that it’s effective enough.

Can he request a reasonable accommodation based on local Covid transmission levels or waste water data? Or is his doctor not even willing to do that? Does the doctor realize immune system issues are considered a disability and must be accommodated? That is so frustrating, I’m sorry.

His doctor has blown that part of it off unfortunately. She’s otherwise providing him reasonable care for a rare autoimmune disease (there are only 4,000 diagnosed cases of this in the US) and the other specialist we’ve seen was at Johns Hopkins but moved to Harvard, so too far for routine care. I suspect he hasn’t accurately laid out the risk of his office to her and she doesn’t understand how high risk a setting it is. 

[rubytue]

Mar 10, 2023 22:16:29 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Mar 10, 2023 19:17:47 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Not to mention how insulting, ableist, and other things to tell the vulnerable they just have to stay home. Whether you think of yourself as vulnerable or not, you deserve to be a member of society the same as everyone else. This is th attitude that has pissed me off the most. From when we wanted to protect the vulnerable to they need to protect themselves and stay home. 

Not to mention impossible. H has to be in his office three days a week. His office has hundreds of people per floor and no rooms, walls, or even cubicles or dividers, just desks. His doctor won’t write him a note for permanent WFH so he has to go in. But he’s also on rituxan, so his immune system isn’t what it needs to be. He wears a mask but nobody else does, so he doesn’t trust that it’s effective enough.

Exactly! It’s not fair/realistic/humane, to just say the vulnerable have to stay home. Even the PPs comment about opening a casino and old people going is ichy. They should be able to be out without people judging them for being out. Last summer, people here were giving me a hard time for taking an extra vaccine and then going on a cruise, bc I’m immunocompromised and I should just, I don’t know, never leave my house again. Fuck that. 

oh course, I did get Covid on a cruise, but not that one. 😂

[dulcemariamar]

Is there any data showing that the recent strains are causing long Covid? From conversations with people it seems like I am the only person left concerned about long Covid because everyone I run into thinks it is only a thing from the original strain and from Delta. Like Covid is now truly just a cold/flu

[mpm]

Mar 11, 2023 16:45:05 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Is there any data showing that the recent strains are causing long Covid? From conversations with people it seems like I am the only person left concerned about long Covid because everyone I run into thinks it is only a thing from the original strain and from Delta. Like Covid is now truly just a cold/flu

It’s impossible to fully assess that now given that the omicron variant only originated a year and an half ago. There are other viruses that present in mild form and the most severe consequences arise years, even decades later. Even the “long covid” we’re looking at now may not be the end of the long-term consequences of this thing.

[rubytue]

Mar 11, 2023 16:53:00 GMT -5 mpm said:

Mar 11, 2023 16:45:05 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Is there any data showing that the recent strains are causing long Covid? From conversations with people it seems like I am the only person left concerned about long Covid because everyone I run into thinks it is only a thing from the original strain and from Delta. Like Covid is now truly just a cold/flu

It’s impossible to fully assess that now given that the omicron variant only originated a year and an half ago. There are other viruses that present in mild form and the most severe consequences arise years, even decades later. Even the “long covid” we’re looking at now may not be the end of the long-term consequences of this thing.

And it could be many years after that before we know the links. Just look at Epstein Barr and it’s link to MS, which has only been linked in the last few years. 

[Bad Dingo]

The Strongest Evidence Yet That an Animal Started the Pandemic

"A new analysis of genetic samples from China appears to link the pandemic’s origin to raccoon dogs."


Unearthed genetic sequences from China market may point to animal origin of COVID-19

I have no idea what a raccoon dog is, but it looks like a skinny raccoon to me.

[waverly]

We had such a traumatic shut down at work 3 years ago. I did most of the work too because my boss was passive. I'm not sure why he was passive. If he was in denial, didn't know what to do, or was too busy playing politics with the board. I wrote both the shut down and the re-opening plans. He was busy with the budget cycle, and no one was stepping up to do it. Finally after about the 100th rendition of the re-opening plans, one of my co-workers stepped in to help. The other co-worker was suffering from a medical condition so she just kept asking questions, and I kept trying to write more and more for her and kept trying to answer them until finally she let me know the reason why she wasn't understanding the re-opening plans was due to a medical condition. And she finally allowed the plans to be instead of questioning everything (and she wasn't doing any of the work). And I had to completely redesign the space upon re-opening too because there was grant money for the redesign that had to be spent. And if I have the money then might as well have employees spread out more with the redesign. It was a LOT.  ETA- There was pushback about opening in the end, not from a safety point of view, we were one of the safest places, but because after being closed for 2.5 months and employees only for 1 month, so 3.5 months total they still hadn't figured out what they were doing in their specific department even though we talked about it weekly the whole time.  But it all worked out.  

We had no leadership for the local health departments. The state was about a month behind us on the re-opening plans, meaning I was writing ours when there wasn't anything out there. A few places shared their plans and that was about it. We had local leadership from our consortium and that was it. Otherwise we were on our own completely, until the state finally got it together and started writing their re-opening plans.

Bad Dingo , I saw some better pictures online of the racoon dog at one of the zoos.

[agnes]

I haven't been sick since early 2019. I finally got a viral infection last week. Have tested multiple times for COVID and they've been negative. Also test for strep - negative. It's been rough! I haven't slept a whole night since. And gosh, coughing so much that I end up throwing up...not fun. Also, I had no idea cough suppressant pills were a thing until this week. I'm a fan.

[gretchenindisguise]

Mar 17, 2023 10:23:12 GMT -5 agnes said:

I haven't been sick since early 2019. I finally got a viral infection last week. Have tested multiple times for COVID and they've been negative. Also test for strep - negative. It's been rough! I haven't slept a whole night since. And gosh, coughing so much that I end up throwing up...not fun. Also, I had no idea cough suppressant pills were a thing until this week. I'm a fan.

I think I have this same virus right now. It's awful.

[macmars45]

Mar 11, 2023 16:45:05 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Is there any data showing that the recent strains are causing long Covid? From conversations with people it seems like I am the only person left concerned about long Covid because everyone I run into thinks it is only a thing from the original strain and from Delta. Like Covid is now truly just a cold/flu

I live in a red city in a blue state so that tracks. The majority in my city hate our dem governor (Inslee) and are irate about everything he says & does. Masks mandates are ending in medical facilities on April 3rd so maybe they'll calm the fuck down but more likely they'll just find something else to be irate about.

I personally would be 100% okay with mask mandates in medical facilities forever (drs offices, hospitals etc).

[fortnightlily]

I'm doing an in-lab sleep study this weekend at a center attached to a hospital and the instructions say that you are to wear a mask the whole time unless the tech instructs you to remove it while hooking up the equipment. So now I'm wondering if that means I'll be expected to sleep in one the entire night? I doubt it because I'm not even sure how that would work, but feel like they could've written it more clearly.

It was also kind of buried in a paragraph where you'd think they'd want to make it really explicit if masks are required in the facility because that's become fairly uncommon now, and even signage on doors is unreliable because a lot of places just seem to have never taken it down despite no longer enforcing it.

[nothingcontroversial]

Mar 17, 2023 11:54:11 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

I'm doing an in-lab sleep study this weekend at a center attached to a hospital and the instructions say that you are to wear a mask the whole time unless the tech instructs you to remove it while hooking up the equipment. So now I'm wondering if that means I'll be expected to sleep in one the entire night? I doubt it because I'm not even sure how that would work, but feel like they could've written it more clearly.

It was also kind of buried in a paragraph where you'd think they'd want to make it really explicit if masks are required in the facility because that's become fairly uncommon now, and even signage on doors is unreliable because a lot of places just seem to have never taken it down despite no longer enforcing it.

I had a polysomnography at a hospital sleep lab last May. (I was diagnosed with Obstructive Sleep Apnea and prescribed a CPAP.)

The instructions from the hospital said to wear a mask. However, once I got to the sleep lab, they told me that whenever I was in my sleeping room and the door was closed, I didn't actually have to wear the mask. 

The restroom was down the hall. Since I have sleep apnea, I wake up multiple times a night to pee. So, whenever I woke up during the night, they had to unconnect me so that I could walk down the hall to visit the ladies' room. Since I was wearing a full face mask for the CPAP (I'm a mouth breather), they didn't make me put a Covid face mask on top of all that.

So, in summary, I wore a Covid face mask when I got to the hospital sleep lab. As soon as they shut the door to my room, I could take off of the Covid mask. I didn't have to put it back on until the next morning, after they unconnected me from everything and it was time for me to leave and walk back to my car. 

Edited to add: I did have to wait 6 weeks after my diagnosis to receive my own CPAP, and I was told that this was related partially to the Phillips Respironics recall and partially to Covid. Supply chain issues and all that. When I was doing this last year, there was still a backlog in scheduling sleep studies due to prior Covid lockdowns and people putting off scheduling sleep studies due to Covid fears. I was originally screened for Sleep Apnea at a routine physical at my PCP in March, and my in-lab hospital sleep study wasn't scheduled until late May. Then there was a 6 week wait for my own machine. 

[sent]

Background - We wore masks to treat patients long before COVID. It was always part of our infection control stuff. With that said, PDQ the below.

I’m tired of seeing dentists post “masks don’t work, look at all the foolish things the government and private groups forced us to do surrounding masks.” I can’t quite tell if these people are Trumpers or Libertarians or what. I’d like to tell them to sit down but I know better than to get involved in an internet fight. I could easily block people off my feeds, but I do try to keep my ears open on what kinds of opinions are floating around out there.

[sent]

I will add 3 good things that have come out of COVID, if I'm trying to look for a silver lining.

1) Since we are an elective healthcare specialty, patients have become more considerate about rescheduling their appointments if they're sick. Before COVID, people used to show up coughing in our faces all the time and expect us to work in their mouths.

2) Now more people wait in the car or go sit outside during a patient's appointment whereas before the entire entourage would be occupying the waiting room with the patient.

3) I didn't like telemedicine at first, but I've come around and see its value even in my own practice. 

[NewOrleans]

Probably nothing to worry about. 🙃

Taken together, the investigators write, these findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 infection damages the CD8+ T cell response, an effect akin to that observed in earlier studies showing long-term damage to the immune system after infection with viruses such as hepatitis C or HIV. The new findings highlight the need to develop vaccination strategies to specifically boost antiviral CD8+ T cell responses in people previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 [which is like everyone].

www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/sars-cov-2-infection-weakens-immune-cell-response-vaccination?utm_campaign=news_tcellresponsecovid&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=20230320

[nothingcontroversial]

Mar 17, 2023 11:54:11 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

I'm doing an in-lab sleep study this weekend at a center attached to a hospital and the instructions say that you are to wear a mask the whole time unless the tech instructs you to remove it while hooking up the equipment. So now I'm wondering if that means I'll be expected to sleep in one the entire night? I doubt it because I'm not even sure how that would work, but feel like they could've written it more clearly.

It was also kind of buried in a paragraph where you'd think they'd want to make it really explicit if masks are required in the facility because that's become fairly uncommon now, and even signage on doors is unreliable because a lot of places just seem to have never taken it down despite no longer enforcing it.

What happened with the sleep study and the masking?

[crabgrass]

3 years later and we all tested positive (3/3 of us in the household). Is there any point in masking now?

[fortnightlily]

Mar 22, 2023 21:04:15 GMT -5 nothingcontroversial said:

Mar 17, 2023 11:54:11 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

I'm doing an in-lab sleep study this weekend at a center attached to a hospital and the instructions say that you are to wear a mask the whole time unless the tech instructs you to remove it while hooking up the equipment. So now I'm wondering if that means I'll be expected to sleep in one the entire night? I doubt it because I'm not even sure how that would work, but feel like they could've written it more clearly.

It was also kind of buried in a paragraph where you'd think they'd want to make it really explicit if masks are required in the facility because that's become fairly uncommon now, and even signage on doors is unreliable because a lot of places just seem to have never taken it down despite no longer enforcing it.

What happened with the sleep study and the masking?

They had me wear it up until I was hooked up and ready to start the study, but I didn't have to sleep in it.

Among the few staff I saw around that part of the attached hospital when I arrived around 8pm and left around 6am most were wearing regular surgical masks and some were below noses.

[bears]

Mar 17, 2023 22:10:53 GMT -5 sent said:

Background - We wore masks to treat patients long before COVID. It was always part of our infection control stuff. With that said, PDQ the below.

I'm so glad that making has become standard in a clinical setting for providers. MH works with lots of patients who cannot mask and, since COVID and masking, he brings home way fewer illnesses. It seems insanity that he used to peer inside sick people's mouths constantly without protection.

[NewOrleans]

Mar 23, 2023 6:26:26 GMT -5 crabgrass said:

3 years later and we all tested positive (3/3 of us in the household). Is there any point in masking now?

NOLA misunderstood this question- apologies to crabgrass  

[Bad Dingo]

Mar 23, 2023 8:13:43 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Mar 23, 2023 6:26:26 GMT -5 crabgrass said:

3 years later and we all tested positive (3/3 of us in the household). Is there any point in masking now?

A modicum of consideration for us at-risk, chronically ill, and/or disabled community members?  

I'm thinking (hoping) that the PP meant masking around each other at home.

If they didn't mean that then 100% they should still be masking if at all possible in public settings.

[crabgrass]

Mar 23, 2023 8:13:43 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Mar 23, 2023 6:26:26 GMT -5 crabgrass said:

3 years later and we all tested positive (3/3 of us in the household). Is there any point in masking now?

A modicum of consideration for us at-risk, chronically ill, and/or disabled community members?  

I meant within the household.

[Velar Fricative]

Mar 23, 2023 9:57:44 GMT -5 crabgrass said:

Mar 23, 2023 8:13:43 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

A modicum of consideration for us at-risk, chronically ill, and/or disabled community members?  

I meant within the household.

No point in masking in the house if everyone has it. 

[NewOrleans]

Mar 23, 2023 9:57:44 GMT -5 crabgrass said:

Mar 23, 2023 8:13:43 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

A modicum of consideration for us at-risk, chronically ill, and/or disabled community members?  

I meant within the household.

Sorry!  Really sorry.
3 years of constant ableism has made me reactive.