SN moms … IEE

[pinkdutchtulips]

I have questions about IEEs and I’m wondering how many of you were successful at getting one.

tia !

[lessel]

Do you mean getting one independently (like pay OOP or via insurance) or one that the school pays for?

We did a psychoeducational evaluation and were lucky enough to land with an excellent PsyD who was on our insurance. We had some co-pays, but that was it. (Our friends kids had comparable evaluations that cost them $3-4k OOP). DS1's diagnosis was ADHD (combined) and dyslexia.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 6, 2023 15:01:54 GMT -5 lessel said:

Do you mean getting one independently (like pay OOP or via insurance) or one that the school pays for?

We did a psychoeducational evaluation and were lucky enough to land with an excellent PsyD who was on our insurance. We had some co-pays, but that was it. (Our friends kids had comparable evaluations that cost them $3-4k OOP). DS1's diagnosis was ADHD (combined) and dyslexia.

One the school pays for. My insurance does not cover a psychoeducational eval (i've priced them out in my area $5-7k) and its too cost prohibitive for me to cover alone. She has an IEP  but the IEP failed to address an impulsivity component that has cost her 2 weeks of academic instruction due to suspensions. 

[whitemerlot]

I’m a sped teacher and I’ve never seen my district pay for an outside evaluation. What does the IEP team say about the suspensions?

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 6, 2023 15:55:51 GMT -5 whitemerlot said:

I’m a sped teacher and I’ve never seen my district pay for an outside evaluation. What does the IEP team say about the suspensions?

Nothing yet as I brought to their attention today after she was suspended again that at the root of every single suspension this year is an impulsivity issue.

[namasteak]

We were unsuccessful in getting the school to pay for one. Are you sure they are all $4k-$5k? They are about $2k here and I'm surprised they are more than double that since we aren't a very low COL.

[lessel]

So process-wise, in my district you would have to request an evaluation through the school. You'd have a meeting and sign a permission to evaluate form. The would have to complete the evaluation in the required timeline. You would meet to review the evaluation results. You would have to formally dissent and disagree with the evaluation results and request an independent evaluation. They would give you a list of providers and you would select one, schedule an appointment, etc.

I mean, honestly it would be a months-long PITA process and IMO you'd get a bunch of push back along the way from the school.

(Admittedly I'm coming from a place of grumpiness about this system seeing as how the independent eval we did had a dyslexia diagnosis and it took months for the school to agree with it and revise his eligibility/IEP.)

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 6, 2023 16:42:52 GMT -5 lessel said:

So process-wise, in my district you would have to request an evaluation through the school. You'd have a meeting and sign a permission to evaluate form. The would have to complete the evaluation in the required timeline. You would meet to review the evaluation results. You would have to formally dissent and disagree with the evaluation results and request an independent evaluation. They would give you a list of providers and you would select one, schedule an appointment, etc.

I mean, honestly it would be a months-long PITA process and IMO you'd get a bunch of push back along the way from the school.

(Admittedly I'm coming from a place of grumpiness about this system seeing as how the independent eval we did had a dyslexia diagnosis and it took months for the school to agree with it and revise his eligibility/IEP.)

We already have the IEP. I formally dissented to it this afternoon and requested the IEE. 

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 6, 2023 16:15:16 GMT -5 namasteak said:

We were unsuccessful in getting the school to pay for one. Are you sure they are all $4k-$5k? They are about $2k here and I'm surprised they are more than double that since we aren't a very low COL.

At least where I am (SF/Bay Area) practices who do these are few and far between so they can charge ridiculous rates bc they can. 

[whitemerlot]

Keep us posted. I hope you can get the support your child needs.

[lovelovelove]

I haven't done this (yet) but I did hire a practice to review everything (school testing, 504, refusal of IEP, etc) and do a consultation appointment and provide a summary of findings which included recommendations. The cost was $250 with no insurance coverage (I'm in a Boston suburb for COL comparison). It felt like an affordable route to give me some direction and understanding in a short amount of time. One of that drs recommendations was school retesting in a year to compare results to show if DD is making "successful gains" or some wording they had used in their IEP refusal that would then put the school on the hook for the services she needs. I hate that it's sort of a wait to fail approach but like you I can't afford the private testing. My DD has low average (on the line to below average) reading testing that as still average does not qualify her as having a specific learning disorder (just putting this to state our specific issue is different from yours). I'm so sorry you and your DD are struggling so much.

[lessel]

Mar 6, 2023 16:55:10 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Mar 6, 2023 16:42:52 GMT -5 lessel said:

So process-wise, in my district you would have to request an evaluation through the school. You'd have a meeting and sign a permission to evaluate form. The would have to complete the evaluation in the required timeline. You would meet to review the evaluation results. You would have to formally dissent and disagree with the evaluation results and request an independent evaluation. They would give you a list of providers and you would select one, schedule an appointment, etc.

I mean, honestly it would be a months-long PITA process and IMO you'd get a bunch of push back along the way from the school.

(Admittedly I'm coming from a place of grumpiness about this system seeing as how the independent eval we did had a dyslexia diagnosis and it took months for the school to agree with it and revise his eligibility/IEP.)

We already have the IEP. I formally dissented to it this afternoon and requested the IEE. 

I just want to say kudos to you. Being in those meetings and advocating for your kid amidst pushback from a room full of people is HARD. I felt like I failed in those meetings every. single. time. 

[orval]

We paid for a private eval as well. It was about 2k. If you can't get the school to do it, could you investigate areas outside the bay area where it may be less expensive. Even driving a few hours and an overnight could save a couple thousand dollars. Maybe check with some private schools to see who they recommend. The person that did ours has no online presence for her own business but was recommended by a private school.

[lovelovelove]

www.understood.org/en/articles/how-to-get-free-low-cost-evaluation-for-child

My friend just sent me this. Not sure how helpful it is to your needs and location but wanted to pass it on just in case.

[morecoffeeplease]

What category is she currently eligible under? Do you not agree with the iep or the testing they did? Is this the initial iep?

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 9, 2023 18:32:57 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

What category is she currently eligible under? Do you not agree with the iep or the testing they did? Is this the initial iep?

She currently has an IEP as they discovered she has a SLD - inattention. I don't agree with behavioral assessment as they completely dismissed an impulsivity problem that has resulted in an alarming number of tardy/missed class periods (the district labeled her a chronic truant) and now 4 school suspensions ALL for things done on an impulse. 

I cannot begin to tell you how much instruction/classtime has been missed bc of this and the negative effect it's had on her academics. 

[morecoffeeplease]

Mar 9, 2023 19:59:50 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Mar 9, 2023 18:32:57 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

What category is she currently eligible under? Do you not agree with the iep or the testing they did? Is this the initial iep?

She currently has an IEP as they discovered she has a SLD - inattention. I don't agree with behavioral assessment as they completely dismissed an impulsivity problem that has resulted in an alarming number of tardy/missed class periods (the district labeled her a chronic truant) and now 4 school suspensions ALL for things done on an impulse. 

I cannot begin to tell you how much instruction/classtime has been missed bc of this and the negative effect it's had on her academics. 

Gotcha. Does she have a medical adhd diagnosis?

I’m a special education teacher and I’ve never been a part of an IEE In our state a student can be found eligible for the category OHI with an adhd diagnosis which would help with “behavior” and give students protections.

You also can ask for a functional behavior assessment which could be helpful.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 9, 2023 20:40:43 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Mar 9, 2023 19:59:50 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

She currently has an IEP as they discovered she has a SLD - inattention. I don't agree with behavioral assessment as they completely dismissed an impulsivity problem that has resulted in an alarming number of tardy/missed class periods (the district labeled her a chronic truant) and now 4 school suspensions ALL for things done on an impulse. 

I cannot begin to tell you how much instruction/classtime has been missed bc of this and the negative effect it's had on her academics. 

Gotcha. Does she have a medical adhd diagnosis?

I’m a special education teacher and I’ve never been a part of an IEE In our state a student can be found eligible for the category OHI with an adhd diagnosis which would help with “behavior” and give students protections.

You also can ask for a functional behavior assessment which could be helpful.

No medical dx yet. I’ve been chasing that for 5y. We have a psych eval 3/16 then an appt to go over her Vandy Survey results w her pedi.

[stemmie]

Mar 9, 2023 20:40:43 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Mar 9, 2023 19:59:50 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Gotcha. Does she have a medical adhd diagnosis?

I’m a special education teacher and I’ve never been a part of an IEE In our state a student can be found eligible for the category OHI with an adhd diagnosis which would help with “behavior” and give students protections.

You also can ask for a functional behavior assessment which could be helpful.

The "I" in IEE is independent. You really shouldn't be. A fresh set of professional eyes should look at the student and the revisit the situation.

In my district they are done rarely. I know of 2 parents who have had to go this route. In both cases the students were twice exceptional so it was a challenge to show educational impact given the quality of work which was OK but not up to potential. 

I totally agree an FBA would be a useful part to this. You might not need all of the pieces redone. 

pinkdutchtulips, What you are calling "impulsivity" could be deliberate avoidant behavior which will become more entrenched if they suspend her-- i.e. rewarding the very behavior you're looking to extinguish. An FBA could help make your case against this consequence. My own kid had a lot of avoidant behavior-- especially in middle school (ADHD and GAD)-- and I heard a lot of similar stories from certain teachers. His IEP teacher in 4-6th was very intuitive at managing it without drama, but 7th and 8th were awful.

[morecoffeeplease]

Mar 10, 2023 6:21:12 GMT -5 stemmie said:

Mar 9, 2023 20:40:43 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Gotcha. Does she have a medical adhd diagnosis?

I’m a special education teacher and I’ve never been a part of an IEE In our state a student can be found eligible for the category OHI with an adhd diagnosis which would help with “behavior” and give students protections.

You also can ask for a functional behavior assessment which could be helpful.

The "I" in IEE is independent. You really shouldn't be. A fresh set of professional eyes should look at the student and the revisit the situation.

In my district they are done rarely. I know of 2 parents who have had to go this route. In both cases the students were twice exceptional so it was a challenge to show educational impact given the quality of work which was OK but not up to potential. 

I totally agree an FBA would be a useful part to this. You might not need all of the pieces redone. 

pinkdutchtulips, What you are calling "impulsivity" could be deliberate avoidant behavior which will become more entrenched if they suspend her-- i.e. rewarding the very behavior you're looking to extinguish. An FBA could help make your case against this consequence. My own kid had a lot of avoidant behavior-- especially in middle school (ADHD and GAD)-- and I heard a lot of similar stories from certain teachers. His IEP teacher in 4-6th was very intuitive at managing it without drama, but 7th and 8th were awful.

I meant that, as case manager, I have never lead an iep meeting in which one was requested. Sorry I was not clear.

[morecoffeeplease]

Mar 10, 2023 1:34:43 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Mar 9, 2023 20:40:43 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Gotcha. Does she have a medical adhd diagnosis?

I’m a special education teacher and I’ve never been a part of an IEE In our state a student can be found eligible for the category OHI with an adhd diagnosis which would help with “behavior” and give students protections.

You also can ask for a functional behavior assessment which could be helpful.

No medical dx yet. I’ve been chasing that for 5y. We have a psych eval 3/16 then an appt to go over her Vandy Survey results w her pedi.

If she receives a medical diagnosis I’d ask for a reevaluation meeting to explore the category of OHI.

[khibb]

Mar 10, 2023 6:21:12 GMT -5 stemmie said:

Mar 9, 2023 20:40:43 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Gotcha. Does she have a medical adhd diagnosis?

I’m a special education teacher and I’ve never been a part of an IEE In our state a student can be found eligible for the category OHI with an adhd diagnosis which would help with “behavior” and give students protections.

You also can ask for a functional behavior assessment which could be helpful.

The "I" in IEE is independent. You really shouldn't be. A fresh set of professional eyes should look at the student and the revisit the situation.

In my district they are done rarely. I know of 2 parents who have had to go this route. In both cases the students were twice exceptional so it was a challenge to show educational impact given the quality of work which was OK but not up to potential. 

I totally agree an FBA would be a useful part to this. You might not need all of the pieces redone. 

pinkdutchtulips, What you are calling "impulsivity" could be deliberate avoidant behavior which will become more entrenched if they suspend her-- i.e. rewarding the very behavior you're looking to extinguish. An FBA could help make your case against this consequence. My own kid had a lot of avoidant behavior-- especially in middle school (ADHD and GAD)-- and I heard a lot of similar stories from certain teachers. His IEP teacher in 4-6th was very intuitive at managing it without drama, but 7th and 8th were awful.

I’m a BCBA for a school district and I second this- ask the district in writing for an FBA. The fact that they are continuing to suspend a student with an IEP is concerning and, I believe, goes against FAPE. Demand an FBA and if you don’t feel the FBA clearly captures the issues and a solid reactive and proactive plan then demand an IEE by a BCBA. I hope your district steps up and helps you- I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be for you and your daughter.

[morecoffeeplease]

Mar 10, 2023 17:06:48 GMT -5 khibb said:

Mar 10, 2023 6:21:12 GMT -5 stemmie said:

The "I" in IEE is independent. You really shouldn't be. A fresh set of professional eyes should look at the student and the revisit the situation.

In my district they are done rarely. I know of 2 parents who have had to go this route. In both cases the students were twice exceptional so it was a challenge to show educational impact given the quality of work which was OK but not up to potential. 

I totally agree an FBA would be a useful part to this. You might not need all of the pieces redone. 

pinkdutchtulips, What you are calling "impulsivity" could be deliberate avoidant behavior which will become more entrenched if they suspend her-- i.e. rewarding the very behavior you're looking to extinguish. An FBA could help make your case against this consequence. My own kid had a lot of avoidant behavior-- especially in middle school (ADHD and GAD)-- and I heard a lot of similar stories from certain teachers. His IEP teacher in 4-6th was very intuitive at managing it without drama, but 7th and 8th were awful.

I’m a BCBA for a school district and I second this- ask the district in writing for an FBA. The fact that they are continuing to suspend a student with an IEP is concerning and, I believe, goes against FAPE. Demand an FBA and if you don’t feel the FBA clearly captures the issues and a solid reactive and proactive plan then demand an IEE by a BCBA. I hope your district steps up and helps you- I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be for you and your daughter.

Students can be suspended for 10 days before a manifestation meeting needs to take place. From there the team determines if the suspension behaviors are due to the students disability. In our district it would be very hard to prove behaviors are due to a disability when the category is specific learning disability without a category that typically supports behavior (au, dd, Ed, ohi)

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 10, 2023 17:06:48 GMT -5 khibb said:

Mar 10, 2023 6:21:12 GMT -5 stemmie said:

The "I" in IEE is independent. You really shouldn't be. A fresh set of professional eyes should look at the student and the revisit the situation.

In my district they are done rarely. I know of 2 parents who have had to go this route. In both cases the students were twice exceptional so it was a challenge to show educational impact given the quality of work which was OK but not up to potential. 

I totally agree an FBA would be a useful part to this. You might not need all of the pieces redone. 

pinkdutchtulips , What you are calling "impulsivity" could be deliberate avoidant behavior which will become more entrenched if they suspend her-- i.e. rewarding the very behavior you're looking to extinguish. An FBA could help make your case against this consequence. My own kid had a lot of avoidant behavior-- especially in middle school (ADHD and GAD)-- and I heard a lot of similar stories from certain teachers. His IEP teacher in 4-6th was very intuitive at managing it without drama, but 7th and 8th were awful.

I’m a BCBA for a school district and I second this- ask the district in writing for an FBA. The fact that they are continuing to suspend a student with an IEP is concerning and, I believe, goes against FAPE. Demand an FBA and if you don’t feel the FBA clearly captures the issues and a solid reactive and proactive plan then demand an IEE by a BCBA. I hope your district steps up and helps you- I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be for you and your daughter.

Thank you for your insight. I have to draft my response to district as to what I want and why so all of this input is wonderful so I know what to specifically ask for and how. Knowledge is power!

It's super frustrating .. I want to help her and I feel like every time I'm taking a baby step, I get kicked down ..again. 

[pinkdutchtulips]

Mar 10, 2023 18:16:59 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Mar 10, 2023 17:06:48 GMT -5 khibb said:

I’m a BCBA for a school district and I second this- ask the district in writing for an FBA. The fact that they are continuing to suspend a student with an IEP is concerning and, I believe, goes against FAPE. Demand an FBA and if you don’t feel the FBA clearly captures the issues and a solid reactive and proactive plan then demand an IEE by a BCBA. I hope your district steps up and helps you- I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be for you and your daughter.

Students can be suspended for 10 days before a manifestation meeting needs to take place. From there the team determines if the suspension behaviors are due to the students disability. In our district it would be very hard to prove behaviors are due to a disability when the category is specific learning disability without a category that typically supports behavior (au, dd, Ed, ohi)

She's either at 10 or very close to 10. While we have the SLD, I along w others suspect a behavioral component (ADHD, ODD) that is contributing to this as well. 

[khibb]

Mar 10, 2023 18:16:59 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Mar 10, 2023 17:06:48 GMT -5 khibb said:

I’m a BCBA for a school district and I second this- ask the district in writing for an FBA. The fact that they are continuing to suspend a student with an IEP is concerning and, I believe, goes against FAPE. Demand an FBA and if you don’t feel the FBA clearly captures the issues and a solid reactive and proactive plan then demand an IEE by a BCBA. I hope your district steps up and helps you- I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be for you and your daughter.

Students can be suspended for 10 days before a manifestation meeting needs to take place. From there the team determines if the suspension behaviors are due to the students disability. In our district it would be very hard to prove behaviors are due to a disability when the category is specific learning disability without a category that typically supports behavior (au, dd, Ed, ohi)

My district has really litigious parents so we rarely would allow a student to get more than 1 or 2 suspensions before offering an FBA to figure out what’s going on. My district would also be pretty concerned that while suspended she’s not receiving her IEP services. I know that’s not necessarily typical of other districts.

[morecoffeeplease]

Mar 10, 2023 20:01:05 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Mar 10, 2023 18:16:59 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Students can be suspended for 10 days before a manifestation meeting needs to take place. From there the team determines if the suspension behaviors are due to the students disability. In our district it would be very hard to prove behaviors are due to a disability when the category is specific learning disability without a category that typically supports behavior (au, dd, Ed, ohi)

She's either at 10 or very close to 10. While we have the SLD, I along w others suspect a behavioral component (ADHD, ODD) that is contributing to this as well. 

I’m sorry. In my district it’s counted by hours. So if she was suspended at noon then it wouldn’t be counted as a full day. So I’d ask how many hours/days she’s been suspended. I’d 100% request a reeval meeting as soon as your get that medical diagnosis (if you do) and ask for a reeval for both SLD and OHI. If she qualifies for OHI it’ll protect her in manifestation determinations.

[pinkdutchtulips]

I got a rare Saturday email from Miss R's Case Manager. An IEP re-evaluation meeting to discuss a Behavior Intervention Plan is scheduled for later this month. My guess is that she hit her 10days and bc of the existng IEP and my known request for an IEE that they want to exhaust all intervention plans before agreeing to the IEE.

[stemmie]

Has a FBA been completed or scheduled soon?

You can't really do an effective BIP without.

[vamoose]

Mar 12, 2023 13:19:18 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

I got a rare Saturday email from Miss R's Case Manager. An IEP re-evaluation meeting to discuss a Behavior Intervention Plan is scheduled for later this month. My guess is that she hit her 10days and bc of the existng IEP and my known request for an IEE that they want to exhaust all intervention plans before agreeing to the IEE.

You’re in the SF Bay Area? We are in the Bay Area, and at my son’s most recent IEP meeting, the team was saying that they feel like they did a thorough evaluation and the supports they expect to work are not working. They recommended we do an evaluation for him through this place: www.dcn-cde.ca.gov/

Apparently my district has worked with them before and they do free evaluations for complex cases. My district has had good success with them in the past. I can’t speak to their services yet, since we are just discussing right now, but maybe you can suggest it?