Post by fortnightlily on Mar 6, 2023 17:17:32 GMT -5
I'm sorry you're dealing with this and facing the unexpected expense, and good on your living Aunt for trying to cover it instead.
We're in the process of revising our estate planning docs, and I swear I just want to say "dispose of me in the cheapest way possible, so long as it's legal and ethical". In our case, our life insurance isn't really intended to cover debts, etc., though I suppose it could if there weren't enough in the estate. We got it to serve as replacement income for the benefit of the surviving spouse and child, enough to basically cover the remainder of the mortgage and DS's college.
We also have some troublesome siblings and niblings, and I kind of want our Will to just give the rest to charity if DS is gone and has no children rather than try to ensure it goes to the 'good' extended family, but DH won't get on board
What does your dad say? It was his sister that passed, yes? I'm sorry this is happening. I agree death and money can bring out the worst in people and tear families apart.
Unfortunately, the life insurance will have to be paid to the designated beneficiary(ies). It sounds like your aunt is trying to do right by her sister and you and your sister.
Life insurance can be used for whatever and doesn't have to be used for anything specific, although people do typically intend for it to be used for final expenses, burial and outstand debts.
I don’t know if this will help or not, and I say this with love, but if I were in your shoes I’d try to convince myself that yes, she deliberately left the insurance policies in their names.
Why would she do that? Because they are family, and she didn’t want to cut them out entirely, because she didn’t want them contesting her willing even more $$ to you and your siblings, because she wanted to limit drama and hard feelings … it could be any reason, really. Rational or not.
But reading your last few posts on the topic, if you are feeling like her wishes aren’t being honored, or that you are being cheated out of something you’re due, it’ll just keep you upset and resentful. There’s nothing good to come of that. It really might have been deliberate, even if that doesn’t seem fair or rational to you.
Sorry- for clarity's sake- the funeral already happened. She was supposed to have "funeral coverage", whatever that even is, but we can't seem to find it, through her former employer. that's how we found out about the life insurance.
Do you or your sister have access to her bank accounts? If there’s money in there can you just use that?
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
It’s not all that uncommon for an estate plan to give one beneficiary or group of beneficiaries the life insurance proceeds and another beneficiary/ies the rest of the estate’s proceeds. There are even reasons why this might be advised. It might bring you peace, someday, to try to release your feelings about this distribution. I’m sure your aunt wouldn’t want you to stew in bitterness about it forever.
It’s strange to me that this funeral was all planned without some specific plan to reimburse the expenses. Absent that, whoever planned it/signed for everything is responsible for the costs. Admittedly, this element is all foreign to my as my family members all seem to be staunchly anti-funeral. But if estate documents referenced a funeral rider on the insurance policy, I’d keep digging to find out if it exists.
Post by ProfessorArtNerd on Mar 6, 2023 17:42:11 GMT -5
Thanks, I know I need to get over this, but this isn’t the first time my sister and I have gotten stuck holding the bag.
The reason I say found money, TR, is that my dad had no reason to expect that he would get anything at all. At one point he was executor of my aunts estate, along with my mom, but my sister and I were supposed to be the only beneficiaries. Totally understand about it being found to me too, but I’ve known since I’ve been an adult that, since aunt had no kids, we were going to be “taken care of” as she put it.
It’s literally just a check that is sent to the beneficiary. Nobody cares what you do with it.
My parents bother had large life insurance policies. After they moved to memory care I kept them up to date because MC is insanely expensive and I knew the surviving parent would beed the money.
My dad died and then my mom died 3 months later so it just became inheritance for me and my siblings.
Also fun fact, while planning their funerals, I leaned that in CA you have to be authorized to plan (and pay for!) someone’s funeral.
I don’t know if this will help or not, and I say this with love, but if I were in your shoes I’d try to convince myself that yes, she deliberately left the insurance policies in their names.
Why would she do that? Because they are family, and she didn’t want to cut them out entirely, because she didn’t want them contesting her willing even more $$ to you and your siblings, because she wanted to limit drama and hard feelings … it could be any reason, really. Rational or not.
But reading your last few posts on the topic, if you are feeling like her wishes aren’t being honored, or that you are being cheated out of something you’re due, it’ll just keep you upset and resentful. There’s nothing good to come of that. It really might have been deliberate, even if that doesn’t seem fair or rational to you.
Exactly this and so gracefully said. Life insurance as I understand it is for the beneficiary and does not suggest any obligations to handle final arrangements. I think it would be nice for all the beneficiaries to participate in that, but also understand why, given the complex dynamics, that isn’t happening.
Thanks, I know I need to get over this, but this isn’t the first time my sister and I have gotten stuck holding the bag.
The reason I say found money, TR, is that my dad had no reason to expect that he would get anything at all. At one point he was executor of my aunts estate, along with my mom, but my sister and I were supposed to be the only beneficiaries. Totally understand about it being found to me too, but I’ve known since I’ve been an adult that, since aunt had no kids, we were going to be “taken care of” as she put it.
Is there nothing left in the rest of the estate? If there is, then perhaps it was intentional and that’s you will be “taken care of?”
Thanks, I know I need to get over this, but this isn’t the first time my sister and I have gotten stuck holding the bag.
The reason I say found money, TR , is that my dad had no reason to expect that he would get anything at all. At one point he was executor of my aunts estate, along with my mom, but my sister and I were supposed to be the only beneficiaries. Totally understand about it being found to me too, but I’ve known since I’ve been an adult that, since aunt had no kids, we were going to be “taken care of” as she put it.
Is there nothing left in the rest of the estate? If there is, then perhaps it was intentional and that’s you will be “taken care of?”
This is what I don't get. Even without the life insurance, you've said what you're getting is life changing money, ProfessorArtNerd, so I guess I'm confused as to why it's SO horrible that you and your sister, as the main beneficiaries of the estate, would be on the hook for funeral expenses. It seems more like you're just resentful that your dad and aunt got anything since they were estranged and I get that, but if you can't let that go it's only going to eat away at you and hurt you in the long run.
How much is a funeral these days? I used to hear $5K, but I imagine that's an outdated number.
It really depends, but $10k is probably a better number. You probably COULD do it for $5k, especially if the decedent chooses to be cremated, and if the plot is already paid for.
We spent about 10,000 last year for my dad all in and he was cremated.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Mar 6, 2023 18:11:41 GMT -5
I think it sucks that your mom is pushing back on paying. And I didn’t even take into account life insurance money distribution to come to that conclusion.
Is there nothing left in the rest of the estate? If there is, then perhaps it was intentional and that’s you will be “taken care of?”
This is what I don't get. Even without the life insurance, you've said what you're getting is life changing money, ProfessorArtNerd, so I guess I'm confused as to why it's SO horrible that you and your sister, as the main beneficiaries of the estate, would be on the hook for funeral expenses. It seems more like you're just resentful that your dad and aunt got anything since they were estranged and I get that, but if you can't let that go it's only going to eat away at you and hurt you in the long run.
Yeah that’s probably it. I’m so annoyed that my sister had to do so much for my aunt. I don’t think I’m any more entitled to this money than they are. But my sister had to do things her siblings should’ve done. Find her a nursing home (she never made it to the point of moving in though).
The money that we get is going to take time. My dad and aunt are getting a check in a couple days. We don’t have 3500 each available to us right now. They know this. They each get a hell of a lot more than that.
Thanks, I know I need to get over this, but this isn’t the first time my sister and I have gotten stuck holding the bag.
Is it that you "got stuck holding the bag" or is it that the estate that got "stuck holding the bag" (ie. some of your aunt's money is going toward paying for her funeral, rather than being left over to be inherited by you and your sister)?
Could you ask them to loan you the $7K until the estate settles if there aren't enough liquid assets in the estate to pay for it?
How much is a funeral these days? I used to hear $5K, but I imagine that's an outdated number.
My mom was $15k for basic everything. We had a plot but no marker. That was the most as far as line items go. We paid $1500 for SFIL to be cremated. H and I absorbed most of the cost on both. There were no estates.
Thanks, I know I need to get over this, but this isn’t the first time my sister and I have gotten stuck holding the bag.
Is it that you "got stuck holding the bag" or is it that the estate that got "stuck holding the bag" (ie. some of your aunt's money is going toward paying for her funeral, rather than being left over to be inherited by you and your sister)?
Could you ask them to loan you the $7K until the estate settles if there aren't enough liquid assets in the estate to pay for it?
I guess I mean that the money we thought we had to cover this in a timely manner is suddenly not there.
My parents told me they’d pay back the private student loan I had to take out in undergrad, until the bill came and they decided against it. My aunt took part of my grandpop’s gift to us when he passed away.
Post by cricketwife on Mar 6, 2023 19:51:26 GMT -5
My mom is still alive but I’m having to do EVERTHING for her care and it chafes me that my brothers will inherit equally with me (in theory, I think there won’t be anything left) and there a small life insurance policy ($5k) that my younger brother is sole beneficiary on. So I really do get all the feelings that come with this. And I also get that rosiebear,’s advice is the best. We will become bitter and rot if we let it eat us up. That’s a long preface to say I don’t want this to seem like a pile on because I’m on your side. It’s just really hard for me to imagine someone with enough assets to leave her nieces “life changing” sums of money, but not $7k liquid in the bank to just pay thus? Does she truly have no liquid assists? In not, do funeral homes take credit cards? Could you use her credit card and roll the bill into the debts the estate has to pay out?
My grandpa hasn't talked to his son (my uncle) in 20 years and he is getting half his estate. It doesn't matter if it was an oversight or planned. He is dead so we will never know.
Yes, it sucks but being upset won't change anything.
If the funeral happened, who paid for it??
We are being billed for it. Like I said, there's supposed to be funeral coverage but since neither my sister nor I are the beneficiaries for her work benefits, we can't find anything out. Since we were named as beneficiaries of her estate, we signed for the will. Stupid, now I know that, but I can't change it.
I would think the funeral coverage would be different than the life insurance coverage.
As the executor, your sister would absolutely have access to all the details and would be able to talk to her former employer and any insurance companies. That’s one of the duties of the executor.
Post by lovelovelove on Mar 6, 2023 20:01:14 GMT -5
I'm so sorry. I understand what you are saying and money stuff is awful during grief and exhaustion. I'm with previous poster who said ask for a loan from the life insurance funds and pay it back from the estate settlement, if possible. It sounds like it would have been coming from that before the LI went to other people. Maybe have a short promissory note drafted up by the estate attorney to make all parties more comfortable if you are interested in something like that? Ugh. I wish stuff like this wasn't a thing, again I'm sorry.
It’s just really hard for me to imagine someone with enough assets to leave her nieces “life changing” sums of money, but not $7k liquid in the bank to just pay thus? Does she truly have no liquid assists? In not, do funeral homes take credit cards? Could you use her credit card and roll the bill into the debts the estate has to pay out?
Unless she and her sister were co-owners of the account with their aunt or listed as payable on death beneficiaries at the bank on the accounts they most likely wouldn’t get any money until the estate is settled. Even if there is money is in the account and in the will it says they will get it.
It would be part of her probate estate and you have to prove there are no debts, everyone’s been notified of the death (including the public which can take six or more months) etc before you can start cutting checks to beneficiaries. Or funeral homes (depending on state/local laws) since funerals are not always considered debts of the estate or there is a cap.
That’s one reason why people have life insurance, it normally pays out right away.
Life insurance pays out very quick. Settling an estate takes a long time. I just posted last week about finally accessing money that I am a beneficiary of. It took a full year for the trust to settle. So I get the immediate stress of the money and I sympathize.
I don’t have any advice as I am fumbling my way through it myself!
Post by pierogigirl on Mar 6, 2023 20:20:33 GMT -5
Also, at least in NY, funeral homes must be paid before the estate can settle. I was the executor of my father's estate (with my brother), and now I am the executor of my brother's estate. It is very hard work and makes it difficult to mourn because there is so much to do (especially at the beginning).
In both cases, I could not access the deceased person's funds until I had Letters Testamentary from court, which took about 3-4 months to get. Since you and your sister signed the contract, I think you are on the hook to pay it. It would be nice if your aunt and father at least let you borrow the amount and you can pay them back when you get some of the money, or until the executor can access bank funds.
Post by expectantsteelerfan on Mar 6, 2023 20:23:32 GMT -5
I'm feeling the need to summarize the issues for you ProfessorArtNerd, 1. your aunt gave you and your sister the impression that she was leaving everything to the two of you and the two of you only. 2. you already planned and had the funeral while under the impression that her life insurance policy would be paying out to the 2 of you. 3. even though you will eventually be getting money from the estate, it can take a LONG while for you to see any of that money, and you need to pay for the funeral costs now, and again, you were expecting the life insurance money for that, and now you aren't getting it unexpectedly. 4. the people who ARE getting the life insurance money not only were estranged from your aunt, but also are people who would normally try to ease the burden of you and your sister, IE your parents, yet have a history of unfortunately not stepping up for you and there are feelings about that as well.
So yes, I think it is understandable that there are hard feelings about your parents not using the life insurance money to at least help pay for the funeral expenses, even if they hadn't been involved in the planning of the funeral or expected to help pay for the funeral before they found out they were getting the life insurance, and I'm sorry they aren't.
This is what I don't get. Even without the life insurance, you've said what you're getting is life changing money, ProfessorArtNerd, so I guess I'm confused as to why it's SO horrible that you and your sister, as the main beneficiaries of the estate, would be on the hook for funeral expenses. It seems more like you're just resentful that your dad and aunt got anything since they were estranged and I get that, but if you can't let that go it's only going to eat away at you and hurt you in the long run.
Yeah that’s probably it. I’m so annoyed that my sister had to do so much for my aunt. I don’t think I’m any more entitled to this money than they are. But my sister had to do things her siblings should’ve done. Find her a nursing home (she never made it to the point of moving in though).
The money that we get is going to take time. My dad and aunt are getting a check in a couple days. We don’t have 3500 each available to us right now. They know this. They each get a hell of a lot more than that.
Well, here’s my perspective.
I did all of the work for my aging parents because my siblings live out of state.
I moved in when my dad took a turn until I could find another solution. Found in time caregivers. Managed the in home caregivers, managed my parents finances, sold their house, arranged for all the junk pick up, etc. I found the memory care facility, moved them in and visited regularly, paid the monthly bill and managed their care. Went to the facility after each of their deaths (one in the middle of the night), sat with my mom while she was dying, took care of dropping off clothes to the funeral home, planned memorial dinners, picked up the ashes….
And I split their estate, life insurance and retirement death benefits 3 equal ways between my siblings and I.
Do I think I should have gotten more for all I did? Sometimes, yeah. My life was stressful hellscape for the better part of 2 years.
Was I going to fight my grieving siblings for more than the 1/3 that the will gave me? Hell no.
An estate doesn’t have to be finalized in order to pay out funeral expenses. When you get confirmed as the executors, and get an estate account set up you can write a check to the funeral home. I am an executor for an estate and got everything done in about 75 days and the funeral home was fine holding a deposit until then. Like another poster said, if your one aunt is kind enough to lend you the money now, you can pay her back once the estate account is open.
It’s just really hard for me to imagine someone with enough assets to leave her nieces “life changing” sums of money, but not $7k liquid in the bank to just pay thus? Does she truly have no liquid assists? In not, do funeral homes take credit cards? Could you use her credit card and roll the bill into the debts the estate has to pay out?
Unless she and her sister were co-owners of the account with their aunt or listed as payable on death beneficiaries at the bank on the accounts they most likely wouldn’t get any money until the estate is settled. Even if there is money is in the account and in the will it says they will get it.
It would be part of her probate estate and you have to prove there are no debts, everyone’s been notified of the death (including the public which can take six or more months) etc before you can start cutting checks to beneficiaries. Or funeral homes (depending on state/local laws) since funerals are not considered debts of the estate.
That’s one reason why people have life insurance, it normally pays out right away.
Yes yes, exactly, this is the problem. We will split the money from the sale of the house, but our probate appointment isn’t even til tomorrow. The funeral was in January. We can’t access her money in the bank, we can’t use her credit card (if we could even find it, another issue entirely). She lived in NJ, which has weird, strict laws about estates and probate, especially when the beneficiaries aren’t a spouse or child. Extra hoops and all that.
I didn’t know how much the life insurance was going to be, but we expected to be able to use it to cover the very modest funeral we planned (we, being my sister and I). And not to be tacky, but I don’t think a lot of you would be all “oh well, what’s $xx,000 each, we will eventually get half a house”.
This sounds like a rough situation with valid emotions around it. Sure you get “found money” but it’s not going to be available for quite awhile and you have expenses related to the estate to pay now.
You mentioned surviving aunt being willing to split funeral costs from the life insurance…is she willing to do that even if your parents aren’t? That would significantly reduce the amount you and your sister have to pay. Or is she willing to pay for the whole funeral outright with those funds or as a loan you can pay back once the estate settles. Might be worth a conversation.